# $6,000 for "art" versus $9.99 for "fine art" - go figure! **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [April 9, 2009, 12:11pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/6-000-for-art-versus-9-99-for-fine-art-go-figure/27878 "2009-04-09T12:11:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![catlord17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@catlord17](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/catlord17)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 12:11pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/6-000-for-art-versus-9-99-for-fine-art-go-figure/27878/1 "2009-04-09T12:11:53Z")
I’m going to be offering some of my photographic artwork for sale in the next few months, and I thought I would do some research into my “competition”. I’m considering selling some of my stuff at eBay, so I went there. My artistic focus is usually on artistic nudes or “found art”, and since “found art” and “abstract art” produced no relevant results, I did a search for “artistic nude photography”. For a little while, I thought… “Holy sh\*t, I will have this whole category all to myself?!” I could not believe what was coming up as “fine art nudes”. It ranges from “cheesy pictures of semi-clothed and naked women in bad poses with awful facial expressions and bad lighting” to flat out pornography - and most of that is bad even for porn! Then I did another search for “fine art nude photography” and started getting better results… but one thing that came up had a very unusual price: $6,000.00. Most of what I was looking at otherwise was around $9.99. I clicked on it, and it was a picture of a woman laying nude on a beach from around 1985, done by some “famous fashion photographer”. It was already starting to fade, composition wasn’t very good, lighting and shadows were not very good, and the point of view didn’t impress me either. This was an image that I would have been largely ignored for producing had I exhibited the exact same thing in any of my college photography classes… but because the “artist” was a “famous fashion photographer”, it was going for $6 grand. I went to the store on eBay that was selling it. It had a number of such prints from “famous artists”, some whom I recognized and some whom I did not. Some of the prints were known to me, and some I had never seen before; but they all had something in common: an outrageous price tag, and a “famous” creator. They ranged from $150 for a “post card reproduction in fair condition” to $27,500. Most of the stuff there was priced between $2,500 and $6,000. None of it was stuff I would have dared turn in to my instructors in photography class when I was in college for it. Even the $4,000 Brett Weston image was, how to say this? Not to my liking. I wouldn’t have bought it for $100. (The Westons usually do great stuff.) Then I went looking at what I could find of the “fine art” that I would appreciate: good tonal range, good depth of field, good composition, good facial expression, interesting subject… and it was nearly all priced at between 99 cents and $25.00 a print, with some of the prints ranging as high as $50. Now I remember half the reason why I got out of the BFA program I was in - the “art world” is full of sh\*t! Last night, after seeing this, I set up my camera in the kitchen and produced an image or two that makes fun of the “art world”. The first one is me holding an opened can of tuna inside a half-opened empty pizza box, and shooting a bird at it. I created that one laughing my ass off the whole time. I call it “F\*ck you, tuna!” The second one is a little more serious and probably will actually find it’s way into my printed collection, and it’s an image of the same partly opened pizza box with a knife and fork stuck in the bottom of the box with a cellophane wrapped “pizza” in the middle. You know… one of those English muffin sized “pizzas” that comes in a plastic bag inside a small box? I call that one “The Ridiculousness of Modern Pizza”. I also made one of that same image, but I was shooting the pizza a bird. I called that one “F\*ck you, pizza!” and it made me laugh my ass off while I was making it. How much ya wanna bet that these two or three images, designed to make fun of the “art world”, will be selling for $6,000 a pop after I die, and some idiot will pay that much for them just because I’m dead? Lotta damned good it’ll do me then! lmao Maybe I should make a single print of each of the “F\*ck you” ones and then offer them on ebay for $15,000 each. I wonder if they’d sell if I made the advertisements sound pretentious enough. lol Meanwhile… I’m gonna go buy a couple of excellent prints I found for $25.00 each. Is it just me, or does anyone else thing this “thousands of dollars for a bad photograph just because the creator is famous” crap is nuts too? ---
**Author:** ![xev](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/xev/32/1993_2.png) [@xev](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/xev)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 12:27pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/6-000-for-art-versus-9-99-for-fine-art-go-figure/27878/2 "2009-04-09T12:27:01Z")
Hey Catlord, I’m not an artist so I don’t have any profound insight for you. But I do have a question I have been saving for someone who knows something about nude photography. I have a really large female nude picture that I have always wanted to know more about. I think it dates back to the 1940’s (based on the lady’s hairstyle). It is about 2/3rds life size and extraordinarily beautiful to me, though unfortunately suffered significant insect damage at some point. I don’t even know by what technique it was produced, except it looks completely lifelike, like a photo, and up close the picture is made of tiny lines. Do you think if I posted a pic you could tell me what you think? Like, whether it might be worth having it restored, or whether its just not anything of value? It is so large I can’t haul it around easily which is why I haven’t taken it for any kind of expert evaluation. ---
**Author:** ![catlord17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@catlord17](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/catlord17)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 1:05pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/6-000-for-art-versus-9-99-for-fine-art-go-figure/27878/3 "2009-04-09T13:05:17Z")
> [@xev](#): > > Hey Catlord, I’m not an artist so I don’t have any profound insight for you. But I do have a question I have been saving for someone who knows something about nude photography. > > I have a really large female nude picture that I have always wanted to know more about. I think it dates back to the 1940’s (based on the lady’s hairstyle). It is about 2/3rds life size and extraordinarily beautiful to me, though unfortunately suffered significant insect damage at some point. I don’t even know by what technique it was produced, except it looks completely lifelike, like a photo, and up close the picture is made of tiny lines. > > Do you think if I posted a pic you could tell me what you think? Like, whether it might be worth having it restored, or whether its just not anything of value? > > It is so large I can’t haul it around easily which is why I haven’t taken it for any kind of expert evaluation. The best advice that I or anyone else can give you to answer your question is this: If you are willing to pay the restoration costs, then it’s worth restoring. The value of any piece of art rests entirely in the eye of the beholder. If it is beautiful to you, and the price of restoration is worth paying in your opinion, by all means! As for what the “official value” is, or would be if you had it restored… that I cannot answer without having some idea who produced it, and whether it is an original or a reproduction. Even then, it’s likely that I could only say “it’s probably got some monetary value” or “it’s not likely to”. I walk into art galleries and see all kinds of things that make me laugh… and they go for hundred or thousands of dollars. Art and the value of art is nearly 100% subjective. The only time you can say otherwise is when everyone accepts what someone says the value is - either by agreeing with an “expert” or “authority”, or by paying the asking price for it. ---
**Author:** ![LeafStamp](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/leafstamp/32/376_2.png) [@LeafStamp](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LeafStamp)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 4:11am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/6-000-for-art-versus-9-99-for-fine-art-go-figure/27878/4 "2009-04-10T04:11:43Z")
My girlfriend is doing a fine arts degree and we recently went around on a tour through a lot of the art galleries in the city. There were some pretty sub-par pieces going for thousands of dollars! She told me that a lot of the work is crap, because it’s artists selling out. They know as well as you that the art they made is crap - but much like “Apple Computer” now, anything they make will be gladly taken up by people who think that anything that artist creates is a masterpiece. There was a painting I remember going for $6000 where someone painted a 1 metre by 1 metre canvas with light blue, and then flicked it a couple of times with red paint. With art - you need to build up your reputation within the community. Or else be a master at giving a justified explanation to your work and sucker people into thinking that your work is good. Other than that - I don’t think anyone can rate “good” art and “bad” art at face value. It’s all in the eye of the beholder. But you do need to have better and more honed skills to produce certain types of art - but sadly, that’s not how it works. You could just become a serial killer - I hear their works go for quite a bit of money. Imagine what a painting done by Hitler would cost now… (He was kicked out of an art academy for being so bad at painting). Art is messed up - that’s why you need to study something like Science or Business 😛 ---
**Author:** ![OoohYahhh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/ooohyahhh/32/1274_2.png) [@OoohYahhh](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/OoohYahhh)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 4:50am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/6-000-for-art-versus-9-99-for-fine-art-go-figure/27878/5 "2009-04-10T04:50:48Z")
I’ve been feeding my art habit at [Browsing deviantART](http://browse.deviantart.com/?order=24) There is an area for any style or media of art that you can imagine. You post your own or collect your favorites into your own personal gallery. A lot of art is sold there. These are some of the photography section submitted new in the last 8 hours. Ok So the sneakers are not really in photography. They’re in fabric art section but I just couldn’t resist. ---
**Author:** ![Bella](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bella/32/1738_2.png) [@Bella](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Bella)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/6-000-for-art-versus-9-99-for-fine-art-go-figure/27878/6 "2009-04-10T05:30:53Z")
Selling art? How much is it worth? What ever you can get for it. Buying art? It’s worth whatever you’re willing to pay for it. I agree, what appeals is always so subjective. I don’t give a crap what people think about the art I buy. I buy it because _I_ like it. 🙂 I don’t consider art a sacred cow. I have fabulous pieces by artists I met on the street! Bella ---
**Author:** ![catlord17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@catlord17](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/catlord17)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 9:03am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/6-000-for-art-versus-9-99-for-fine-art-go-figure/27878/7 "2009-04-10T09:03:43Z")
I have decided to offer my work for sale because it will do two things. 1. Force me to focus on it and be more consistent in creating it, and 2. Offer me (potentially) yet another source of revenue. I have learned that having many streams of income is a good thing… not many of them do exceptionally well, but all of them together are proving to be able to pay the bills through just about anything. I really create my art because it feels like breathing and being alive at some inner level. I bliss out when I find myself doing what feels natural to me art wise, and I lose track of everything. And really, I never much cared if anyone else liked it. I was dreading having to “defend my portfolio” in college because I knew they would look at it and say, “Okay… so why is this art? Why should I care?” and I would say “It’s art because it’s a piece of me, and if it doesn’t touch you like it touches me… you probably shouldn’t. I didn’t create it for you, so I really don’t care if you like it.” But that doesn’t work on some levels when you start selling it. after going through looking for inspiration, I have found it – and also realized that I’m going to have to really brood over this for a while because I don’t want to do more of the same old sh\*t that has been done a million and a half times already. Sure, I love doing nudes, but what’s left that hasn’t been done? Maybe I’ll fall back on my “found art” abstracts. That’s where I go looking and do images of things that “speak” to me in some way. I have a one of a kind print that is of a grouping of stones that were placed in that place and in that way by the hurricane that had been there the day before, and it’s very beautiful to me… almost like a little teaser with some sort of Divine hinting at a playful, artistic side. Anyway… I’ve concluded that I’m going to try to be level headed about selling it and not get ridiculous with prices. Do what makes me feel alive, when I can do that and not be a “me too”, and let the chips fall where they may. And some day, maybe my work will be going for $6,000 too. Of course… being the perfectionist that I am… it won’t be crap. At least, not to me. lol How often do you guys suppose that artists achieve some degree of success and then become “lazy” and start producing crap because they can “ride their own coattails”? I hope I never do that. ---
**Author:** ![catlord17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@catlord17](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/catlord17)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 9:06am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/6-000-for-art-versus-9-99-for-fine-art-go-figure/27878/8 "2009-04-10T09:06:21Z")
> [@OoohYahhh](#): > > I’ve been feeding my art habit at [Browsing deviantART](http://browse.deviantart.com/?order=24) > > There is an area for any style or media of art that you can imagine. You post your own or collect your favorites into your own personal gallery. A lot of art is sold there. > > These are some of the photography section submitted new in the last 8 hours. > > Ok So the sneakers are not really in photography. They’re in fabric art section but I just couldn’t resist. I will have to go back there and take another look. I haven’t been there in a few years. Thanks for the suggestion. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![catlord17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@catlord17](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/catlord17)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 9:09am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/6-000-for-art-versus-9-99-for-fine-art-go-figure/27878/9 "2009-04-10T09:09:25Z")
> [@LeafStamp](#): > > My girlfriend is doing a fine arts degree and we recently went around on a tour through a lot of the art galleries in the city. There were some pretty sub-par pieces going for thousands of dollars! > > She told me that a lot of the work is crap, because it’s artists selling out. They know as well as you that the art they made is crap - but much like “Apple Computer” now, anything they make will be gladly taken up by people who think that anything that artist creates is a masterpiece. > > There was a painting I remember going for $6000 where someone painted a 1 metre by 1 metre canvas with light blue, and then flicked it a couple of times with red paint. > > With art - you need to build up your reputation within the community. Or else be a master at giving a justified explanation to your work and sucker people into thinking that your work is good. > > Other than that - I don’t think anyone can rate “good” art and “bad” art at face value. It’s all in the eye of the beholder. But you do need to have better and more honed skills to produce certain types of art - but sadly, that’s not how it works. > > You could just become a serial killer - I hear their works go for quite a bit of money. Imagine what a painting done by Hitler would cost now… (He was kicked out of an art academy for being so bad at painting). > > Art is messed up - that’s why you need to study something like Science or Business 😛 Art is messed up. That’s why I left the BFA and focused on the subliminals business I started to have a backup means of paying off the student loan in case the degree turned out to be worthless for getting a job. _cough cough_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LeafStamp](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/leafstamp/32/376_2.png) [@LeafStamp](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LeafStamp)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 10:02am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/6-000-for-art-versus-9-99-for-fine-art-go-figure/27878/10 "2009-04-10T10:02:45Z")
Well, with a BFA, you can get a stable job as an art teacher or curator. Same can be said with a BMus. (Where a music teacher is the only traditionally profitable career choice you can get). BUT that being said, the title BMus, bemuses me 😃 I was going to do a Arts/Engineering conjoint (BABE), but didn’t have the marks for it. AND I didn’t have enough STD’s or smoke enough marijuana to get into the arts department 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mtnjim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mtnjim/32/2010_2.png) [@Mtnjim](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mtnjim)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/6-000-for-art-versus-9-99-for-fine-art-go-figure/27878/11 "2009-04-10T18:32:52Z")
> [@LeafStamp](#): > > Well, with a BFA, you can get a stable job as an art teacher or curator. Well, with my BFA (ceramics) I got a job… as a computer systems administrator.😮 ---
**Author:** ![catlord17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@catlord17](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/catlord17)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/6-000-for-art-versus-9-99-for-fine-art-go-figure/27878/12 "2009-04-10T22:28:10Z")
I think I am going to go back and finish my BFA just to finish what I have started and hopefully to be able to initiate an effective network of preliminary contacts. Becoming a curator wouldn’t be a bad thing at all, actually… that would be a job (paying, hopefully) and a position that would be wonderful for learning how the art world works, as well as networking. I would be constantly involved with and meeting new art scene players. Not bad… maybe I should aim for that. Ceramics could be something to do with computers… isn’t silicon a component of ceramics? lol ---
**Author:** ![Mtnjim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mtnjim/32/2010_2.png) [@Mtnjim](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mtnjim)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/6-000-for-art-versus-9-99-for-fine-art-go-figure/27878/13 "2009-04-10T22:55:48Z")
> [@catlord17](#): > > I think I am going to go back and finish my BFA just to finish what I have started Good for you!!! > [@](#): > > Ceramics could be something to do with computers… isn’t silicon a component of ceramics? lol I knew there had to be some reason I ended up working with computers ( or maybe it’s my masters in Educational Technology). ---
**Author:** ![xev](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/xev/32/1993_2.png) [@xev](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/xev)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/6-000-for-art-versus-9-99-for-fine-art-go-figure/27878/14 "2009-04-13T23:18:10Z")
> [@catlord17](#): > > The best advice that I or anyone else can give you to answer your question is this: > > If you are willing to pay the restoration costs, then it’s worth restoring. The value of any piece of art rests entirely in the eye of the beholder. If it is beautiful to you, and the price of restoration is worth paying in your opinion, by all means! > > As for what the “official value” is, or would be if you had it restored… that I cannot answer without having some idea who produced it, and whether it is an original or a reproduction. Even then, it’s likely that I could only say “it’s probably got some monetary value” or “it’s not likely to”. Thanks, catlord. I understand what you are saying, I just feel like my opinion is very uneducated in this matter. But yes, I agree that ultimately she’s valuable if I think she is. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dutchess](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/the_dutchess/32/1279_2.png) [@The\_Dutchess](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/The_Dutchess)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/6-000-for-art-versus-9-99-for-fine-art-go-figure/27878/15 "2009-04-16T02:07:10Z")
Catlord what kind of a market (if you can call it that in the art world) is there for sketches? Most times I hear about pieces selling they are paintings or photographs. While I am beginning to get into both painting and photography, I currently have a life time of experience in sketching. ---
**Author:** ![Oasis314](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/oasis314/32/219_2.png) [@Oasis314](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Oasis314)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/6-000-for-art-versus-9-99-for-fine-art-go-figure/27878/16 "2011-05-15T16:00:37Z")
art and science go hand in hand, one cannot exists without the other. The world will be either illogical, un-comprehensive or boring and stale without either components. Balance is the key. In reference to your views on art, I agree completely. Art is in the eyes of the beholder which is why many artists are individualists by nature. Art exists too in many forms, not just by painting but in different mediums. I was too from an art school. Never regretted my choice even though I am no longer in this field. The world of art opened my eyes to a vast whole new world of life.