# 80-90% Game, 10-20% Pheromones **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [November 21, 2006, 9:52am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929 "2006-11-21T09:52:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![texaspete](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/texaspete/32/1612_2.png) [@texaspete](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/texaspete)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 7:33pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/21 "2006-11-22T19:33:21Z")
> [@tacitus](#): > > Sheeeeez… what’s all this obsession with “game”… what ever happened to manners, social skills, self presentation… ? IME, pheromones have never, ever, gotten me past the introductory phase without having some back up in the form of shared interests, liking the other person’s sense of style … being a good conversationalist… hey, takes conversational skills (such as might be taught in a good NLP course, among other possible learnings) and a good database, you gotta actually know interesting stuff… most guys flop because they are dull, they don’t have anything to say, not because the pheromones aren’t working… I have seem many women light up for a moment in the presence of pheromones then tune out if there isn’t a stimulating follow through… Hell yeah. That was better put than I could ever manage. But I digress. I said I’m tapping out. As in [TapOut.com](http://TapOut.com) Tap-Tap-Tap ---
**Author:** ![catlord17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@catlord17](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/catlord17)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 7:45pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/22 "2006-11-22T19:45:34Z")
> [@Ail](#): > > I agree wth Gabe. > > As I have said on numerous occasions, maybe the seduction stuff works in other cultures, countries etc. but try it here on EITHER sex, and you would soon find yourself on the receiving end of a “Glesgae Kiss.” > > Trust me, that is NOT a good thing. Google it and you’ll see. > > “The Man” does not know I wear Pheromones, but he and I have looked at every one of these well-known so-called “seduction technique Gurus” websites, and we are in total agreement, that the Scots are just FAR too savvy a bunch to ever be taken in by false, deliberate behaviour of this kind. > > We just do NOT do this gumff, and if you look far enough back at my posts, I have explained in detail why it will never work here, and also why although TONS of these guys and gals want to come and speak to my students every single semester, I say “No,” every damn time. > > I appreciate some of you use these techiniques and they work for you, but not here. No way. For it to work in a hard-nosed, largely cash-poor country like Scotland, the women and men would have to have both had successful Frontal lobotomies. > > Scots people - especially the females, see through garbage like this from a thousand miles away, and please..let’s not even get me started on “Kino,” since I TEACH Kinesiology as it SHOULD be used, and honestly, it ain’t for seduction - trust me on that. > > I see through people within about 15 seconds of meeting them, if they have an agenda, and although as I have said before, we Scots are one of the most open, and generous people you will ever come across, we do NOT suffer fools gladly, are HIGHLY cynical, and call a spade a spade. > > Game = nothing in my book, but I respect the fact that some here think it does. > > Give me an honest, open person any day. > > Game-playing is a lot of nonsense, and often leads to unnecessary psychological warfare between the sexes. > > I would much rather know the person is gen-up from the get-go, than be worrying what “ruse” he is using on me, all the time. > > Fine, some of you like to play games, so do I. Mine though, do not involve me utilising anything other than my own personality and maybe a bit of a boost with pheromones, but I am what I am, and I will NEVER alter my behaviour just to get my end away. > > Never. > > Ail 🙂 I intend no offence when I say this, but I think, Ail, that you have a very strong will, and make your decisions only once. And in this case, because you decided you do not like “pick up artists”, you seem to have labeled everything mentioning it bad. But, you are not following what I’m saying. What I am doing is not fake, not following a rulebook, not playing games to get people in bed. I’m flirting because it’s fun, and I just happen to notice that when I’m successful, my efforts seem to coincide with a lot of what the “game” websites preach. Not all, but some. I have more female attention than I really need, so when I go out, I’m out to have a good time, not get in some woman’s pants. It’s not about being fake so I can get someone in bed in record time. It’s about enjoying a social interaction. It’s about finding someone who knows I am flirting for fun, and chooses to play the flirting game with me. It’s fun to see them enjoying themselves as much as I do, and it’s also fun to see them become aroused because they just can’t help it. It’s also a lot of fun to tease them because they can’t help it. Say what you will, but attraction is based on emotional responses, and if you can push the right emotional buttons, you WILL get attraction in the vast majority of cases. Cultures may adjust what those buttons are and how to push them, but they still exist, because they’re necessary. I agree with you fully that a lot of pick up artists are only being fake and only going for the sex. I’m not a pick up artist. I’m a flirt, and I flirt with my girl all the time when she’s around. But right now, she’s not around, so I flirt with my friends. I enjoy flirting. It’s fun. It makes me feel good. And you can’t tell me you never flirted, although I certainly hope you enjoyed it. Flirting is good for you. It’s a way to socialize while feeling good and share that with someone. It’s not just to say, “Hey, I wanna do you.” or “Hey, I want to be with you.” The problem I seem to have communicating is that I am using terminology that makes it easier to express what I’m talking about, but the terminology has some negative connotations for some of you. I can respect that. I don’t particularly respect a lot of what I see on the PUA websites, either. But, if you want to create attraction in a woman, they have some good advice in some instances. It’s just a matter then of what your goals are. As I stated over on LS, it’s just a socialization game. You tease her, she teases you, and you have fun. It can lead to sex, but it’s not always the goal. I want to enjoy the people around me when I’m out and about. After thinking about it, I realize that I may have unintentionally given the impression because of the language I used. This is due to my habit of periods of intense research, and then taking on the terminology I read for a day or so afterwards. If that was the case, my more in depth and generic explanation should suffice to clear up any confusion.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@Mak](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mak)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 2:05pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/23 "2006-11-23T14:05:19Z")
Cat, I’ll speak for myself. I’ve been around for long as you may guess, seen some seduction trends evolve into a concept, a culture, then a plot, or system. I won’t use the terminology. Most here are versed enough about that, so I won’t repeat. That system works, I learned few things from it, but I consider it gone far, to not be genuine. I won’t shoot it or laugh it off .. it works & is clever. Anyone can use whatever they like, to their own end. I do my own thing, which is simply to consider every woman a unique person, and to owe her that acknowlegement. A while ago, when you used the terminology, I got you system-associated initially, but after reading many of your posts, you are cleared ! .. So, you can use terminology all you like, no association from me ! ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 4:21pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/24 "2006-11-23T16:21:10Z")
Does John Grinder, the co-founder of NLP, ever get down to Australia ? If he does, see if you can do a three day seminar with him… you may be amazed at the fine points you will learn that apply to all social interactions…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![examine](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/examine/32/1665_2.png) [@examine](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/examine)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/25 "2006-11-23T16:49:17Z")
man they call me kobe bryant around these parts. i won mvp last week. ---
**Author:** ![examine](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/examine/32/1665_2.png) [@examine](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/examine)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/26 "2006-11-23T17:05:10Z")
ok ok. ill be serious. most of what was said is a haze, esp after this shot of vodka. (gotta get rid of this hang over, altho i should have had breakfast first whoops) i think im a little confused on what people are considering ‘game’ approaching a woman and chatting her up is a part of the game. perhaps you’d prefer to call it an interview, getting to know her, whatever. now, the guys intentions…thats another story. however, what about the girls intentions? why is she at the club dressed like britney spears? perhaps she’s on the brawl, perhaps she just broke up with her man, and wants a rebound. maybe she is just lonely and wants to find a nice guy. is she gaming? now. if you are talking about players. you know, the kind of guys that goes out to get laid, bs around and do their thing. thats different. he is playing A GAME. but it has nothing to do with the interview, he is just lying during the interview. or analyzing it in much more depth. he memorized his answers and knows where he is going with it. i live in a different enviroment then most here. hollywood isnt very conservative lol. we party hard here, life is good, drama is lame. people are extremely blunt, and everybody is ‘in the know’ it just makes life much more easier. if a girl is at the club and she has a man. most likely she’ll tell you, doesnt mean she doesnt want to have fun. most girls here know the ‘game’, we arent naive here, we know whats going on, this isnt wyoming LOL. if i go to a ucla party, the majority of girls know whats going on, know what most guys intent are, and if they are dressed like britney…they too are on an agenda. she just has to pick. its up to males to to flex and win. thats the game. anyways. my head is smashed, i think i need another shot of vodka to kill it off. good morning! ~late ---
**Author:** ![examine](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/examine/32/1665_2.png) [@examine](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/examine)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/27 "2006-11-23T17:08:45Z")
oh and if you aint getting no apple pie, yo game (social skills to some) are wack son. get off the court. _dribbles_ ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 7:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/28 "2006-11-23T19:49:06Z")
think of **game** as having many possible levels, from the crudely manipulative to the sublimely communicative… there is no one fixed **game** , that’s more of a language illusion, 100 different people use the same word with 100 different understandings… here’s the fascinating, mysterious part, the idea of what is meant by “the next level of the game” won’t make any sense until you’re there, then it will be intuitively obvious… I believe, though, that it means moving from the idea of domination or controlling the interaction (what the MM folks call **Frame Control** ), fast forward to another place where it is about comprehending another person and deeply sensing the undercurrents of her moods, thought processes, attitudes and attuning yourself to them, the fast forward again to a mutual intuitive flow state where the self-other boundary dissolves, sort of like great jazz where every musician remains a distinct personality but are fused with the music at the same time… if you stay stuck in frame control mode, nothing evolves… * * * ---
**Author:** ![examine](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/examine/32/1665_2.png) [@examine](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/examine)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 7:55pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/29 "2006-11-25T19:55:17Z")
> [@tacitus](#): > > fast forward to another place where it is about comprehending another person and deeply sensing the undercurrents of her moods, thought processes, attitudes and attuning yourself to them, ps. this can be seen as frame control. ---
**Author:** ![examine](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/examine/32/1665_2.png) [@examine](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/examine)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 8:02pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/30 "2006-11-25T20:02:46Z")
> [@tacitus](#): > > the fast forward again to a mutual intuitive flow state where the self-other boundary dissolves, sort of like great jazz where every musician remains a distinct personality but are fused with the music at the same time… ps. this can be seen as erm normal group interaction. or a match in characteristics with an indiv. or in some cases, you’re buzzed and talking up a storm, pretty much forgetting everything you learned from an ebook. LOL [WordNet](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=00-database-info&db=wn) - _Cite This Source_ ([http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?pt=interact&ia=wn&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2Finteract](http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?pt=interact&ia=wn&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2Finteract)) **interact** v : act together or towards others or with others; plan and simple. lets not make the word more complex then it is. and lets be serious. we all wear pheromones here LOL we are manipulating interactions in our favor. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 4:52pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/31 "2006-11-27T16:52:18Z")
[http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3866129966098747404&sourceid=docidfeed&hl=en](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3866129966098747404&sourceid=docidfeed&hl=en) fun (slightly off-topic) video ---
**Author:** ![Sunny](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/sunny/32/929_2.png) [@Sunny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Sunny)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2006, 7:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/32 "2006-11-30T07:24:04Z")
> [@catlord17](#): > > I have concluded that my results are about 80-90% game, and 10-20% pheromones. So often, I am just blind to results. I know they are there and I know that I am changing how people perceive me, but I don’t notice it. What I ALWAYS notice with good products is the effect on myself. So when you say, it’s 90% game, I agree, and I would like to add that those 90% are strongly influenced by the pheromone effect on myself. So for me, the effect on myself makes a much bigger overall difference than the effect on others. The effect on others seems inconsistent and I often fail to notice it (could use an “invisible high social awareness buddy” to write daily reports for me…). The effect on myself is always reliable and I notice how it improves my game, or any social interactions. And this effect works even over distance, eg. when I am writing an e-mail. So, pheromones can work over thousands of miles 😉 ---
**Author:** ![catlord17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@catlord17](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/catlord17)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/33 "2006-11-30T19:01:55Z")
> [@Sunny](#): > > So often, I am just blind to results. I know they are there and I know that I am changing how people perceive me, but I don’t notice it. > > What I ALWAYS notice with good products is the effect on myself. > > So when you say, it’s 90% game, I agree, and I would like to add that those 90% are strongly influenced by the pheromone effect on myself. So for me, the effect on myself makes a much bigger overall difference than the effect on others. The effect on others seems inconsistent and I often fail to notice it (could use an “invisible high social awareness buddy” to write daily reports for me…). The effect on myself is always reliable and I notice how it improves my game, or any social interactions. > > And this effect works even over distance, eg. when I am writing an e-mail. So, pheromones can work over thousands of miles 😉 I was thinking about this recently. I agree, pheromones probably have an even bigger effect by making the results of your own actions different. So maybe I should say 10 to 50% pheromones… I have been doing experiments recently that show that pheromones have a HUGE impact on my mood and that results in a huge impact on how others respond. Kind of like the “butterfly effect”. But we’re getting into some very complex ground now. Being blind to results is just a matter of learning to notice things more. It takes time and practice, and nobody ever notices everything on a conscious level. But let me tell you… ladies like it when you take notice of things other guys don’t. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sunny](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/sunny/32/929_2.png) [@Sunny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Sunny)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2006, 7:57pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/34 "2006-11-30T19:57:31Z")
Conscious communication makes only a very small fraction of all communication. So if I feel good and strong, I unconsciously send all those signals around by body language, my natural pheromones and much more. That means, [artificial pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/) which make me feel good have a BIG influence on the production of my natural pheromones. Those effects can never be separated, I think. > [@catlord17](#): > > Being blind to results is just a matter of learning to notice things more. It takes time and practice, and nobody ever notices everything on a conscious level. But let me tell you… ladies like it when you take notice of things other guys don’t. 😉 Well, it’s funny. When I spent my days on a university campus (at a university with 75% females), I saw so many obvious reactions. So I haven’t been so blind. Now I am just not around enough people in the right cirumstances. But I am creating more opportunities now… just to have some fun 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 1:19pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/35 "2006-12-02T13:19:06Z")
cologne opener? Has anyone (besides Jas 😉 tried this one ? I suppose it is a nice way to ensure delivery of your mix directly to your ‘target’ as well as to play with different cover scents. **The Cologne Opener (Style)** Style: “Hey guys, I want your opinion on something. See, I have two different colognes on my wrists, and I want to see which one you like better.” (Let them smell the cologne. Be cocky and funny, neg the target, etc.) Style: “The reason is, I have so many colognes from my ex-girlfriends on my shelf, and I want to give some of them away and keep the best ones.” Variation #1: After she picks one, you pull out a pen and make a mark on your wrist, next to five or ten others… Variation #2: Her: “So what are they?” Style: This one is hemlock, this one is chloroform.” Variation #3: Style: “Thanks. I have all these old colognes around the house, so I’m having a face off. This one has won ten days in a row!” ---
**Author:** ![Sunny](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/sunny/32/929_2.png) [@Sunny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Sunny)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 1:22pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/36 "2006-12-02T13:22:16Z")
> [@PheroQuirk](#): > > “I want your opinion on something. See, I have two different colognes on my wrists, and I want to see which one you like better.” Yes, that’s great! I have done this almost daily for over a year on the above mentioned university campus and had some success and lot of great fun with it. ---
**Author:** ![Rbt](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/rbt/32/2066_2.png) [@Rbt](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Rbt)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 11:19pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/37 "2006-12-02T23:19:06Z")
But where can I get some chloroform and/or hemlock? I may have some turpentine around here… will that do? (I can see actually USING something like one of the above as the second product [a safe one, thank you], something that actually _does_ smell awful… But I’m warped that way…) ---
**Author:** ![Sunny](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/sunny/32/929_2.png) [@Sunny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Sunny)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2006, 11:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/38 "2006-12-02T23:44:46Z")
> [@Rbt](#): > > [a safe one, thank you], something that actually _does_ smell awful… But I’m warped that way…) I would put a tiny amount of PI on my neck and nothing else, go purely natural. Then as the second (or third) product, let the girls smell my neck. When they say “it does not smell”, have them smell again. By that time, they will have the full -none effect 😃 ---
**Author:** ![catlord17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@catlord17](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/catlord17)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 10:18pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/39 "2006-12-03T22:18:14Z")
That’s a very old routine, the cologne opener, but it’s still pretty good. I am going to do this with Ammunition and TUTH one day and see what happens. lol ---
**Author:** ![Sunny](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/sunny/32/929_2.png) [@Sunny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Sunny)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2006, 1:09pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929/40 "2006-12-04T13:09:39Z")
> [@catlord17](#): > > That’s a very old routine, the cologne opener, but it’s still pretty good. I am going to do this with Ammunition and Turn Up The Heat one day and see what happens. lol I have done just that with TUTH and it was really fun to see how her face lit up immediately. She said it smelled good but her facial expression showed much more 😃 [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929.md?page=1) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/80-90-game-10-20-pheromones/929.md?page=3)