# A314 + some visible success leads to massive envy? **URL:** \ **Category:** A314 Insider's Club\ **Created:** [January 28, 2009, 12:53pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/a314-some-visible-success-leads-to-massive-envy/25458 "2009-01-28T12:53:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 12:53pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/a314-some-visible-success-leads-to-massive-envy/25458/1 "2009-01-28T12:53:59Z")
Has this been your experience too? I am talking about success in anything - not just financial, perhaps started dating a ‘quality’ partner, and even improving yourself in some way. Anytime I had a success I definitely noticed the A314 absolutely amplified any envy I was getting. I am thinking when one gets ‘visible success’ it might pay off at first to use something like TAK which turns you into an ‘approachable beta’ and lowers perceived value and go without any A314 at all. A314 + some visible success could get you lynched I am telling you, especially if you are around the people who envy you for a long while… And even 1 drop of A314 had this effect for me… I am thinking the whole ‘can’t get you out of the head’ AndrosteRone thing is contributing to this as well - ‘can’t get your success out of my head’! It seems to be able to turn people into gold rush fever zombies 😉… ---
**Author:** ![diamond](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diamond/32/859_2.png) [@diamond](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diamond)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/a314-some-visible-success-leads-to-massive-envy/25458/2 "2009-01-28T14:06:00Z")
Visionary, I know where you are coming from, I think the A314 amplifies the jealousy from the beta types. In the main though, I think it comes down to national characteristics. If an American gains success, he is generally applauded for it, if a brit is successful, we seem to delight in shooting him down. As for the Aussies, even you’ve got to admit that, as a nation, you got a bit pissed off and bitchy when we won the ashes for the first time in a generation. What’s the phrase? Success breeds contempt and suspicion? ---
**Author:** ![So\_Musky](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/so_musky/32/290_2.png) [@So\_Musky](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/So_Musky)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/a314-some-visible-success-leads-to-massive-envy/25458/3 "2009-01-28T14:08:55Z")
> [@Socrates](#): > > Has this been your experience too? I am talking about success in anything - not just financial, perhaps started dating a ‘quality’ partner, and even improving yourself in some way. Good observation. I never thought to tie the word “envy” in with my hits and reactions. Thinking back, I would say yes, I believe I have seen envy from friends and even a business competitor or two. I’m going to watch more carefully for that to make sure. Like you said, envy can be good and bad depending on the situation. I don’t know about the TAK though as I’ve never used it. ---
**Author:** ![jayarea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/48db29/32.png) [@jayarea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jayarea)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/a314-some-visible-success-leads-to-massive-envy/25458/4 "2009-01-28T16:50:26Z")
> [@diamond](#): > > Visionary, I know where you are coming from, I think the A314 amplifies the jealousy from the beta types. i’ve seen this before from a guy who hangs out with me a lot. i’ve never really dived deep into the whole alpha/beta thing but before pheros, i would say i was a leader of our social group and he was a follower. my resolution for the new year was to increase my presence naturally and so far it’s going well, plus i also have the help of pheros. as i’ve been moving up, he’s slowly been moving down. he rarely looks me in the eye anymore and has started to “go back in his shell” and doesn’t come out anymore except when his girlfriend is around, and when he is out he doesn’t have the same antics as before. there’s really no reason for him to be jealous of me – i don’t flash anything, i’m not a player with girls (and even i was, he’s got a solid gf who isn’t leaving him), and it’s not like our social/life status is way different – but i think the a314 increased the “betaness” that he had before and that resulted in new or more jealousy. ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 11:40am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/a314-some-visible-success-leads-to-massive-envy/25458/5 "2009-01-29T11:40:47Z")
> [@diamond](#): > > Visionary, I know where you are coming from, I think the A314 amplifies the jealousy from the beta types. > > In the main though, I think it comes down to national characteristics. If an American gains success, he is generally applauded for it, if a brit is successful, we seem to delight in shooting him down. As for the Aussies, even you’ve got to admit that, as a nation, you got a bit pissed off and bitchy when we won the ashes for the first time in a generation. > > What’s the phrase? Success breeds contempt and suspicion? Yea that’s been my experience as well Diamond about amplifying jealousy from Beta types. Interestingly, people seem to understand that when people are envious about someone it means that there is something there to be envious about. A kind of ‘envy social proof’ I think. > [@So\_Musky](#): > > Good observation. I never thought to tie the word “envy” in with my hits and reactions. > > Thinking back, I would say yes, I believe I have seen envy from friends and even a business competitor or two. > > I’m going to watch more carefully for that to make sure. Like you said, envy can be good and bad depending on the situation. > > I don’t know about the TAK though as I’ve never used it. Thanks for the rep So Musky. I can’t really think of too many situations where envy can be good. Perhaps as a kind of ‘envy social proof’ that I mentioned above and a confidence builder. Not that I’ve had much experience but believe me, I don’t like being envied much especially with A314 on - I have to watch my back and be careful as people are looking for weaknesses to ‘put me back in my place’ (so they can feel better about themselves and go to sleep at night 😉). **Can anyone please list some positives with being envied?** I do feel TAK is the best molecule to counter envy. Having a lot of TAK on (like 30 mcg) seems to give a completely non-threatening vibe. Going back to Diamond’s example, it would be like a tiny country winning the World Cup (Say Fiji winning the Rugby World Cup). TAK + some visible success = the underdog who made it (“good luck to him” they all say at first!). Sometimes its better to play the ‘little guy’😉. > [@jayarea](#): > > i’ve seen this before from a guy who hangs out with me a lot. i’ve never really dived deep into the whole alpha/beta thing but before pheros, i would say i was a leader of our social group and he was a follower. my resolution for the new year was to increase my presence naturally and so far it’s going well, plus i also have the help of pheros. as i’ve been moving up, he’s slowly been moving down. he rarely looks me in the eye anymore and has started to “go back in his shell” and doesn’t come out anymore except when his girlfriend is around, and when he is out he doesn’t have the same antics as before. > > there’s really no reason for him to be jealous of me – i don’t flash anything, i’m not a player with girls (and even i was, he’s got a solid gf who isn’t leaving him), and it’s not like our social/life status is way different – but i think the a314 increased the “betaness” that he had before and that resulted in new or more jealousy. jayarea, I can’t really wear A314 (well more than one drop) with people my age for that reason socially. Envy seems to be part and parcel of wearing A314 (obviously when there is some kind of visible success). I think this is partly to do with AndrosteRone and the effect it has as Lor described it of ‘can’t get the wearer out of my head’. It is intense and to be exposed to it for hours (say at a party or at work) can mess with people’s minds I feel, especially when the A314-wearer has some visible success. The smart course of action (even if it doesn’t pay off immediately) may be to lie low in some way as when people get envious they need an outlet to their frustration sooner or later (and even sooner when A314 is involved 😮)… ---
**Author:** ![So\_Musky](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/so_musky/32/290_2.png) [@So\_Musky](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/So_Musky)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/a314-some-visible-success-leads-to-massive-envy/25458/6 "2009-01-29T16:25:43Z")
> [@Socrates](#): > > **Can anyone please list some positives with being envied?** > > I do feel TAK is the best molecule to counter envy. Having a lot of TAK on (like 30 mcg) seems to give a completely non-threatening vibe. Going back to Diamond’s example, it would be like a tiny country winning the World Cup (Say Fiji winning the Rugby World Cup). TAK + some visible success = the underdog who made it (“good luck to him” they all say at first!). Sometimes its better to play the ‘little guy’😉. Interesting. Ok, TAK is officially on the next order. Regarding envy, I guess it depends on what kind. No matter what, I think it manifests itself from low self esteem. It seems that a man in a low self esteem position wants what the successful man has. So how does that desire take form? I look at it like a spectrum. On one side you have bitterness and anger. You don’t want me to have what I have. You would strip me of it if you could. Bring me down. On the other end, you want what I have, but you don’t know how to get it. But, you’re willing to work towards it. It may cause you to align yourself with me, to learn what I know. It’s not as healthy as a mentor/protege situation, but at least it’s a semi-positive step in the right direction. At this end of the spectrum you have the ability to actually change this persons envy into admiration and win yourself an ally. Where at the other end, it would be very hard if not impossible. So I guess I’m saying, envy is never healthy. However there are certain people who are envious that want to be of higher character but don’t know how. ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/a314-some-visible-success-leads-to-massive-envy/25458/7 "2009-02-13T14:49:33Z")
Here’s some old posts from capone on AndrosteRone/A314 jealousy issues. Regarding the following comment: “The thing is that you must behave like an alpha while wearing A314 (even with friends, those are the worst in this case) or will normally have bad or unrespectful reactions. I’ve explained mine some time ago here, if you are not congruent, they see a flawless in you, that you are not so alpha like you seem and they use that to destroy you. They must think “what the h\*ll does he think??? he’s not so alpha! I am going to make jokes about it and bring him down to the floor because he’s flying so much and too high”.” **I’m not sure whether ‘behaving like an alpha’ is always going to work when wearing A314. Its not that easy to behave like a ‘socially popular alpha’ after all, all the time for many people.** **1) Should one just accept that jealousy/envy is part and parcel of wearing AndrosteRone/A314 and that is the way it is for anyone who is doing well for themselves and is walking around with a swagger?** **2) Or should one devote all their energies to ‘behaving like an alpha’?** **What do people think 😕???** > [@Alternate Explanations of Pheromone Overdose](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/alternate-explanations-of-pheromone-overdose/5130/8): > > Totally agree, very plausible theories, I’ve suffered spotlight jealousy effects, specially from friends and they make afwul jokes or try to get me down from the high. I’ve noticed this specially when high on -Androsterone. The can’t help myself explanation is very true, not only with ODs too, in many ways girls with a boyfriend get upset and are edgy with the subjects in order to raise their auto-defense because they concious or unconciously don’t want to feel that attraction. This could be sp… capone (August 18, 2007): “Totally agree, very plausible theories, I’ve suffered spotlight jealousy effects, specially from friends and they make afwul jokes or try to get me down from the high. I’ve noticed this specially when high on -Androsterone…” > [@Why oh why? This is serious stuff for serious users](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/why-oh-why-this-is-serious-stuff-for-serious-users/6428/12): > > Totally agree with you all, guys. Congruency is important with all pheros and mixes but it takes much more sense when using high -Androsterone products, specially A314. I would compare bad effects of wearing -Androsterone and being not congruent, with wearing a -none OD, it may even be worse, at least on me. I am not saying the effects are the same, it’s only that newbies are only warned about -none OD (they’re really scaried about it, and might even not test a controlled OD, what is interesti… capone (November 22, 2007): "Totally agree with you all, guys. Congruency is important with all pheros and mixes but it takes much more sense when using high -Androsterone products, specially A314 . I would compare bad effects of wearing -Androsterone and being not congruent, with wearing a -none OD , it may even be worse, at least on me. I am not saying the effects are the same, it’s only that newbies are only warned about -none OD (they’re really scaried about it, and might even not test a controlled OD , what is interesting), and they’re not so induced to wear A314 with an alpha vibe… The thing is that you must behave like an alpha while wearing A314 (even with friends, those are the worst in this case) or will normally have bad or unrespectful reactions. I’ve explained mine some time ago here, if you are not congruent, they see a flawless in you, that you are not so alpha like you seem and they use that to destroy you. They must think “what the h\*ll does he think??? he’s not so alpha! I am going to make jokes about it and bring him down to the floor because he’s flying so much and too high”. Maybe only an opinion " ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/a314-some-visible-success-leads-to-massive-envy/25458/8 "2009-06-28T02:07:11Z")
**Could Jaakkeli’s advice pasted below give us the correct way of acting when wearing status increasing [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/shop/) (A314 and AndrosteRone in general)? Is showing ‘loserish’ behaviour and vices essential so that people don’t feel too inferior to the A314/AndrosteRone wearer? As he says, ‘nobody likes a saint, except from a distance’…** [HaloScan.com - Comments](http://www.haloscan.com/comments/raldanash/5703790221741906832?url=http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/09/popularity-of-pretty-boys-and-frequency.php) jaakkeli (September 13, 2007): "…Human Flesh: YEAH! I feel like I’m back in school listening to the nerds wondering why the guy who drinks, is in trouble with the authorities and gets bad grades is so much cooler than the nice guy with a perfect grade in behaviour. **A rock star has already proven that he’s no loser, so every bit of “loserish” behaviour like drug use is actually just adding his attractiveness - he doesn’t have to care, because he’s such a winner.** Also, there’s the coolness factor that has nothing to do with sex or gender: nobody likes a saint, except at a distance (it’s best if they’re dead). Everybody has vices and everybody feels guilty of them. A person who has (or displays) fewer vices makes the other feel inferior and nobody likes feeling inferior. You’re more comfortable around people when you’re the one in position to judge. **A rock star with no serious vices would be DEAD socially, because he’d usually make people feel completely inferior in his company. A rock star with a wild, unstable life represents the ultimate coolness, because he’s displaying the most valued talent of all (among young people) and he’s still giving the opportunity for anyone to feel superior to him.** This works especially well with women, because they’re more judgemental and more afraid of being judged than men and for the obvious evolutionary reasons they wish to believe that they’re the ones bringing responsibility to the relationship (they’ll walk away the second they feel a guy is more conscientious than they are)…" jaakkeli (September 13, 2007): "…**Remember, the point is to have something that gives you status (like rockstardom); THEN loserish behaviour becomes just “peacocking”.** There are also real, actual losers, those who do the stuff without the status. Those grades are a good example. If you know someone, you already have a pretty good idea of how smart they are, so you can predict the kind of grades they should be getting with a given amount of studying, sucking up to the teachers, attendance and so on. Thus, the main thing those grades actually tell you is how much time someone invests on studying (and not being social, having fun or doing something actually useful), how approval-seeking they are, how confident and daring they are (school is terminally boring to everyone, but not everyone has the guts to skip class or have fun in class and face bad grades) and so on. Or, alternatively, how conscientious someone is, but the trouble with conscientiousness is that even those people who consider it good will feel inadequate if they’re forced to “play” with someone more conscientious while the company of a not very conscientious person will make them feel good about themselves. Conscientiousness is just lethal to coolness. (This of course fails at the extremes, ie. for those people who are too dumb to get anything except the worst grades and for those who automatically get the best grades even if they don’t study.)" jaakkeli (September 17, 2007): “…You’re, BTW, providing a fine example of why conscientiousness isn’t cool with that supreme sense of superiority of yours. The only thing worse for coolness than having a trait that makes others feel bad about themselves (eg. superior conscientiousness) is feeling superior because of it. If you wish to be cool & conscientious, you have to display some other vices (which conscientious people rarely do, because conscientiousness tends to go hand in hand with the bizarre belief that people will like you less for having vices) **or carefully avoid giving the impression that you feel superior to others** (one reason why school is traumatic for conscientious people is that it shows so obviously).” ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/a314-some-visible-success-leads-to-massive-envy/25458/9 "2009-06-28T02:49:13Z")
**The below behaviors might work too if one has the ‘problem’😉 of having ‘mild prosperity’ and wearing A314. The A314 might exaggerate the ‘mild prosperity’ in a woman’s eyes (this needs to be handled carefully to avoid being seen as unattainable I guess)…** > [@Approach Invitations](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/approach-invitations/1221/72): > > core issues - class B = wealth…? –snip I wonder what can one do to help friends/acquaintances who are kind of stuck in this trip (I meant to write trap but perhaps trip is better) and long to escape but don’t know how. it seems to be particularly acute with children whose parents came into money quite late (say when the kids were teenagers) and didn’t have enough time to properly appreciate the implications of wealth and how to adapt one’s life to it. unless somebody is perceptive enough… PheroQuirk (January 3, 2007): “…I liked this advice with regard to how to operate if prosperous and on the dating scene (hope nobody takes offence at the phrasing or the compliance aspects. But I think compliance is just one of those click-whirr things Cialdini talks about). I don’t like the use of the word wealth below to describe mild prosperity - the truly wealthy are in a whole different kind of game, I suppose.” [http://www.fullcontactdating.com/how-having-money-affects-attraction/](http://www.fullcontactdating.com/how-having-money-affects-attraction/) Value, Attainability, and Compliance generate Attraction. This is called VAC. VAC is beautiful in its non-linearity. While there’s some common indicators of value, like non-verbals and conversational skills, where our deepest value comes from is different in all of us. Being passionate about something in your life is good for value, regardless of what it is. Which brings us to attainability: First, there are lots of women who are very nice, very cool, solid girls who could care less about wealth, and if you make them laugh, you’ll be in good shape. But what about the ones that do care? Let me give you some quick tips. FOR THE WEALTHY MEN, REGARDLESS OF AGE: The most common mistakes among wealthy men who aren’t successful with women is that they try to flaunt or show off their wealth. The second most common mistake is spending too much money on women without demanding lots of compliance in return. Trying to impress a woman will murder attraction. **What you should do is get your affairs into order, and spend money on YOURSELF, not on women. Understate your success - use “verbalizations of lower value”, be modest, and understate your success. This will make you appear even more confident and successful.** **Do not flaunt it, and if a woman starts to see you as out of her league, use heavy doses of verbal attainability, like qualification: One of the best you can use is “down to earth” -** **“I meet a lot of girls with their heads in the clouds, but you don’t have time for that. You’re so down to earth and relaxed, I feel really comfortable around you.” Then, put ‘em to work! Here’s one of my personal favorites, from my own little bag of tricks. Take out a bill, hand it to a girl, and say, “I’ve got to go greet this cat over here real fast, can you pick me up a vodka tonic from the bar? You can get yourself something too if you want.” Most women, if they like you and you have not been flaunting your wealth, will go buy drinks for both of you and then give your cash back to you! It’s a pride thing. So work them a lot. If you’re high value, and they know they have a shot at you, it’s up to you to work them so that they can feel like they deserve you.** ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 10:02am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/a314-some-visible-success-leads-to-massive-envy/25458/10 "2009-06-28T10:02:10Z")
what is the social function of envy in the EEA? perhaps somewhat relevant… [Boehm, Hierarchy in the forest (1999)](http://cogweb.ucla.edu/Abstracts/Boehm_99.html) > [@](#): > > Egalitarian societies constitute a very special type of hierarchy, one in which the rank and file avoid being subordinated by vigilantly keeping alpha-type group membersunder their collective thumbs. > [@](#): > > they manage to make egalitarianism happen, and do so in spite of human competitiveness–and in spite of innate human tendencies to dominance and submission that easily lead to the formation of social dominance hierarchies. People can arrest this process by reacting collectively, often preemptively, to curb individuals who show signs of wanting to dominate their fellows. Their reactions involve fear (of domination), angry defiance, and a collective commitment to dominate, which is based on a fear of being individually dominated. As potential subordinates, they are able to express dominance because they find collective security in a large, group-wide political coalition. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/a314-some-visible-success-leads-to-massive-envy/25458/11 "2009-06-28T19:43:09Z")
Visionary - have you tried combining dangerously high doses of none or The Edge with TAK? ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/a314-some-visible-success-leads-to-massive-envy/25458/12 "2009-06-28T22:26:03Z")
> [@PheroQuirk](#): > > Visionary - have you tried combining dangerously high doses of none or The Edge with TAK? Yea PQ I have tried it. I don’t like wearing AndrostEnone out socially but the TAK did ‘mellow’ the negative aggressive/avoidance reactions a bit. I am no expert though on wearing AndrostEnone successfully. I still think even with TAK and other social mones, the AndrostEnone (and secret ingredient in TE/NPA) ‘rears its ugly head sooner or later’ - I like my mixes to have as few negatives as possible… How have you found a bit of AndrostEnone with lots of TAK to compare with AndrosteRone products like IG and A314? How about WAGG-N vs A314 vs IG? ---
**Author:** ![Pheraoh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/pheraoh/32/857_2.png) [@Pheraoh](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Pheraoh)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/a314-some-visible-success-leads-to-massive-envy/25458/13 "2009-06-29T16:57:01Z")
Wherever envy is invoked, jealousy follows. Majority of people are incapable of feeling any joy for other people’s success. Be it a random person, a former acquaintance or an individual that they know of, or even their best friend. They begin to size themselves up and ask what makes this other person so deserving while they come up with every reason why the individual is undeserving of said success. The higher your pedestal (real or imagined by these people), the more eager they are to see you fall off of it. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/a314-some-visible-success-leads-to-massive-envy/25458/14 "2009-07-05T21:36:41Z")
I never had much luck with WAGG. None+TAK is a completely different axis to any rone-centric product. chalk and cheese.