# 'Agricultural specialisterne': rural employment revolution for those with Autism **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [June 5, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/agricultural-specialisterne-rural-employment-revolution-for-those-with-autism/50615 "2011-06-05T05:40:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 299
**Author:** ![Visionary7903](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/45deac/32.png) [@Visionary7903](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Visionary7903)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/agricultural-specialisterne-rural-employment-revolution-for-those-with-autism/50615/299 "2012-05-06T02:08:01Z")
Optimising the Dopamine System through Dual n-Back (DNB) Working Memory Training may also bring about benefits and not just in the obvious domains of improving productivity in studies or in work… If the Dopamine system not being at its best is an issue for an individual, and, as a result, they aren’t able to socialise as effectively as they would like, this might be a useful non-drug approach to pursue… As can be seen from the anecdotal experiences below, this should help with many things relating to socialising, which is an obvious issue for those with Autism Spectrum Disorders. Anything from improved comprehension and focus during conversations, to improved persistence, emotional regulation, and verbal fluency… Mike L. (July 28, 2009): "I ask because though i’m still quite efficient at filtering out external stimuli, i find it more difficult to contain my thoughts to a single aspect now whenever i’m working with something that requires my sole attention , one, because i find that fewer things can truly challenge me and those things that fail to do so are put on the afterburner for things that are more complex in nature and don’t captivate me enough to get my fullest attention, and two, because i notice things more. As i’m walking on the street, for example, and talking with a friend on the phone, it used to be that i could only do one thing at a time, but now, as I catch a glimpse of something on the sidewalk, i begin to think of it’s composition, of how it came to get there, of all sorts of things ALL THE WHILE i am still able to talk to my friend comprehensibly and without inanity. **What i used to leave out because i simply could not handle the load i now accept and process in a manner that is not detrimental to the efficiency of any of the processes i might be undertaking at the time.**" Gore L. (July 29, 2009): **“IMO your report – individual anecdote though it may be, as all of our reports are – should be quite encouraging for creative types. I hazard that I’ve experienced the same … less overload, more noticing.”** Ashirgo (August 4, 2009): "No problems with creativity here. On the other hand, I can see what others cannot (a cliche from Warcraft III, I know I mean that it is likely that **I perceive now much more subtle informations in others faces when they speak (detecting lies, emotions and other phenomena).** All in all, to me it seems like a lower latent inhibition than before (before my experience with DNB, when I could not notice such things)." (source: [Higher working memory or higher inhibition? - Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence | Google Groups](http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/thread/1b0b307f9605ba4e/cc9dfcd0735e2be6?hl=en)) Wade (May 14, 2009): " **…Another possibility, which I see as the most likely, is an increase in working memory is helping your intellect control and rationalize your emotional response. If you scroll to the bottom of Working\_memory and look under research, it says that working memory has been used in studies to explain success at emotion regulation. "** … **I don’t think these are multiple “possibilities” but multiple angles on the same phenomena: Working memory training optimizes the dopamine system. The dopamine system is well established as being responsible for drive, persistence and self regulation, as well as somehow underscoring working memory performance.** In fact, all of these performance measures are probably best viewed as epiphenomena of that system, rather than distinct and separable traits. Two related studies which back this up, (can’t site them right now, unfortunately), showed that consuming caffeine prior to cardio vascular exercise reduced the participants’ “perception of effort” (but not in short strenuous exercise like lifting weights). The second, participants’ perception of effort when exercising INCREASED when the exercises was preceded by performing a difficult mental task. How well the dopamine system is performing _determines_ our sense of motivation. I bring this up because in the Klingberg (however you spell his name studies, one persistent criticism (PROFESSIONAL criticism) of his conclusion that working memory and attention improve with training is that maybe “the kids just feel more motivated so that they try harder on the test the second time around” …as if increased feelings of motivation is an independent variable." (source: [Increased focus, better mood=Apparent “IQ” - Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence | Google Groups](http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/thread/46a0fc396b78cfe5/312d31bc9a01b50f?hl=en&lnk=gst&312d31bc9a01b50f)) Benjamin (July 2009): "yes many benefits, but for that I think you have to 1/play everyday for many weeks and months 2/be really serious about it. every point counts. I think you have to really feel that it’s a serious challenge, give your 110%, and go like “YEAHHHHH” around in your room to celebrate when you get to a new level, etc. this releases dopamine and marks accomplishments. you have to try hard. you should play more than 20 games a day. 40 is good. try to beat your record all the time. your curve should look like the average world temperature, a little irregular but steadily increasing (I’m not so sure about AGM though). also, sleep well (this affects wm, a lot), eat well and take (pharmaceutical grade) fish oil (great benefits!). **the benefits of DNB are pretty simple for me: I speak faster, I can hold more ideas in my mind during a conversation, I’m more social, I make more jokes and I make less ackward comments (though I still do) as I can spot them before they come out. I’m less stressed out to talk in front of a crowd. I can speak english (my second tongue) better and make more fluid sentences. I’m also more perfomant at studying (much more), on the job too, I have more efficient, satisfying conversations, I clearly ‘get more’ from conversations. I’m also probably more organized, though it’s hard to tell, but my room never gets completly cluttered like it used to sometimes; and now that I think of it, I haven’t missed an appointment for a little while. I make more to do lists and I get them done. one of the coolest points is that my jazz improvisations are noticeably better and much faster (noticed independently by people who have known my playing since long), and that was clearly a consequence of DNB. also, (maybe that’s just following all this), but my mood improved substantially, and I remember other DNBers saying that too, in forums. that’s about it I think.** notes: a/I started to notice benefits around the time I started mastering the 3d level well. and from then more and more benefits. b/someone said elsewhere (and I agree): it’s possible that you quickly get used to small increases in your wm. that means, at first you’re impressed and surprized (it’s like having a new tennis racket), and then you get used to it until the next increase. I suspect many ppl aren’t fully dedicated to DNB and do stagnate for long periods. so it’s likely that people underestimate what exactly improved in their lives and how much. the best would be IQ tests before during and after, job performance or some kind of external measure at least, by neutral ppl. but few ppl seem to have done that. c/play triple n-back and quad n-back (brain workshop 4.5). these are better, at least for this simple reason: colors and shape force you to manage position and sound completly intuitively. focus on colors and shapes and let the sounds and positions come to you automatically. then go back to dual and you’ll see a dramatic increase and especially extreme ease for the first levels. playing intuitively increases wm more than playing with strategies, according to the original Jaeggi study, and triple and quad help you with that. but maybe start with DNB it’s already pretty hard itself. d/some people might get more benefits than others. DNB trains wm, which indirectly increases your IQ. if wm is a mental performance bottle neck for you, like for ADDers or lower IQ ppl, than you’re going to get a bigger increase. the Jaeggi study says lower IQ ppl benefited more. this game is also used to treat ADD." (source: [cognitive fun! talk: Tangible Benefits Anyone?](http://cognitivefun.net/talk/post/14790)) otto (November 7, 2009): “… **Regular dual n-back training seems to increase my verbal fluency.** **Especially when discussing complicated issues** …” Mike^2 (November 9, 2009): “I for one have found that the more arduous one goes about training with DNB -that is, **the more effort one puts in getting the sequence right- the better, or more fluent, one’s ability to speak becomes.** And, as if that the results were not mutually exclusive to speech - which would be counter-intuitive if they were-, one’s writing (at least for me) too becomes ameliorated.” (source: [https://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse\_thread/thread/a7ffe85dfc9b1096?hl=en](https://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/thread/a7ffe85dfc9b1096?hl=en)) Blueberry13 May 2010 06:07:07AM1 point -] quoting someone else in the thread: **“I feel more people-centred after focused mental work that involves marshalling intuition - this was after hitting high dual n back levels (12+) for which conscious rehearsal strategies were necessarily eschewed in favour of recourse to ‘feel’.”** (source: [Do you have High-Functioning Asperger’s Syndrome? - Less Wrong](http://lesswrong.com/lw/28l/do_you_have_highfunctioning_aspergers_syndrome/)) The.Fourth.Deviation. (June 29, 2011): “…**In general, I can explain a complex thought without any word trips. My retrieval of advanced vocabulary and ability to construct sentences has improved so much that I havent really been at a loss for words at all since I started DNB. This has been very helpful in improving the impression i make on other people. In general, they will find me very articulate, and hence competent. This helps in general conversations and has improved my ability to network. It has also very substantially increased my ability to generate humor (therefore creativity)**…” (source: [https://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse\_thread/thread/5c61b5b27601ed91/dbb9c741035d1ad3?hl=en#dbb9c741035d1ad3](https://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/thread/5c61b5b27601ed91/dbb9c741035d1ad3?hl=en#dbb9c741035d1ad3)) --- _[View the full topic](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/agricultural-specialisterne-rural-employment-revolution-for-those-with-autism/50615)._