# Animals vs Humans, decision making, and cheating. **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [October 25, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/animals-vs-humans-decision-making-and-cheating/53005 "2011-10-25T22:39:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![delocc](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/delocc/32/1200_2.png) [@delocc](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/delocc)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/animals-vs-humans-decision-making-and-cheating/53005/1 "2011-10-25T22:39:02Z")
In an introduction topic, I brought up the thought that infidelity is ingrained in our DNA- essentially that we’re left with some remnant of urges which often disturb our social norms, like monogamy. Tisha argues that.. > [@](#): > > Keep in mind we have control of our instincts and having them is not a excuse for every behavior. A conscious commitment was made and if either partner cant keep that commitment instinct has little to do with it. Are ability to think logically, control our instincts and make decisions based on values, emotions and needs is what separates us from other mammals. That’s why we are called humans and not animals. and I would agree on a general level- however the line doesn’t seem so clear-cut to me. Animals have decision making too- humans are even animals, according to science. Octopuses do incredible things with tools, and elephants have complex social relationships. Fish select algae that they eat and ‘farm’ them- weeding out undesirable types. And humans definitely have instincts. Our self-control and distance from our ancestors has made it easier to suppress or decide against or for them, but when it comes to subjects like infidelity, or moral choices- what is actually going on our minds? We have the idea that people have ‘free will’ and that hurting or helping another is blameworthy or praiseworthy, and there is a concept of ‘moral responsibility’ to it all- but is that fair? To illustrate my point, I present something called the free-will dillemma: We go through life making choices based on our reasons- but what gives us these reasons? Our experiences? Our theories, like facts about the universe? Did we choose these experiences to happen? No. We didn’t choose to grow up in the area we did, the time, the school, the nation. Either our actions and choices have reasons (causes) or they don’t. Eventually, in the chain of reasons, you have physical causes. Your parents met and birthed you because \_\_\_\_\_\_ and they were born because \_\_\_\_. It goes on and on. Eventually it becomes apparent that all you think and decide is merely the result of all events previous that choice. This theory is called ‘determinism.’ But what if its wrong? Then there is no cause to your reasons or actions, or there is a break in the chain, and the result is random. **The total result is that if it’s random, it isn’t your fault. If it’s the result of causes from even before you were born, it isn’t your fault.** So why do we blame people for anything? It doesn’t seem to make sense in the face of the illusion of free will. Our choices are either ‘detemined’ and not our fault, or we’re insane. I think that instincts are just part of the set of causes which determine our behavior, and our ability to defend against them, (or make any choice freely) is overestimated. Thoughts on cheating/determinism/decisions/humans and how they differ from animals? ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 10:22am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/animals-vs-humans-decision-making-and-cheating/53005/2 "2011-10-26T10:22:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Animals have decision making too- humans are even animals, according to science. Octopuses do incredible things with tools, and elephants have complex social relationships. Fish select algae that they eat and ‘farm’ them- weeding out undesirable types. No we are animals only in that we get our energy from eating other things, breathe and we move around. Science classifies different animals into subspecies. We are homosapiens which is a branch of primates. (Thinking. problem solving, emotional beings) Octopuses are cephalopods Elephants are mammals from the Elephantidae or mammoth subspecies. As we are all mammals we have some similar characteristics however humans are the only mammal that consciously controls those characteristics. > [@](#): > > We go through life making choices based on our reasons- but what gives us these reasons? Our experiences? Our theories, like facts about the universe? > Did we choose these experiences to happen? No. We didn’t choose to grow up in the area we did, the time, the school, the nation. Reasoning is derived from life experiences. Just because you didnt get to pick the region you grew up in or the school you went to doesn’t mean you dont have control of your own thoughts and actions. Choices are still presented to you. Just like there are branches of mammals there are branches of reality. Your comparing whats outside of your realm of control to whats inside your realm of control. These are two different realms and instinct is inside. I humans, it doesn’t come from your environment it comes from within you. You choose, you control it. For other mammals whose brains dont contain spindle neurons like we do instinct is what drives there survival. There is always cause and effect. As Einstein theorized there are an infinite amount of choices that form our reality into matter. Thought is matter. A form of energy. If the chain of cause and effect is broken we cease to exist. This doesn’t mean there are only two choices that can be made though. What separates us is our ability to use logic and emotion to over ride instinct and choose. > [@](#): > > So why do we blame people for anything? It doesn’t seem to make sense in the face of the illusion of free will. Our choices are either ‘detemined’ and not our fault, or we’re insane Blame is an emotion, one you get to choose or not choose. Its derived from fear. > [@](#): > > The total result is that if it’s random, it isn’t your fault. If it’s the result of causes from even before you were born, it isn’t your fault. Because we have the ability to logically think and choose its not random. This statement seems to me like something someone would use to let go of responsibility for what happens around them. We are always, in every case part of the cause that creates the effect. Its the chain of life. It can not be broken Blaming instinct on your behavior is a cop out. Yes instinct plays a role on why we are drawn one way or another but it doesn’t dismiss logic and emotion like in other mammals. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 10:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/animals-vs-humans-decision-making-and-cheating/53005/3 "2011-10-27T10:23:01Z")
Delocc We ended up talking about his a little over in this thread to. > [@How does each product / formula actually work?](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-does-each-product-formula-actually-work/49901/20): > > Why would people be mad ?? Having differing opinions is no reason to be mad at someone. I agree that culture plays a large part on how people see many things including religion and science. Many people here on the forum have spoken about using mones being against god in some way. I dont agree but I am not religious really. I dont see paganism as a religion but as a natural belief system. I dont know if I agree that religion tries to drill this into people. I feel it tries to control others t… I probably clarified my beliefs over there better and thought you might be interested. Just want you to know that just because we have opposing ideals and beliefs doesnt mean I’m upset with you or dont respect your views. I love a good debate and I always take away some knowledge from it. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![Mtnjim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mtnjim/32/2010_2.png) [@Mtnjim](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mtnjim)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/animals-vs-humans-decision-making-and-cheating/53005/4 "2011-11-02T00:28:31Z")
You might want to read: [http://img2.imagesbn.com/images/92360000/92363819.JPG](http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/sex-at-dawn-christopher-ryan/1100055497?ean=9780061707803&itm=1&usri=sex%2bat%2bdawn%2bthe%2bprehistoric%2borigins%2bof%2bmodern) Available [HERE](http://www.barnesandnoble.com/s/sex-at-dawn-the-prehistoric-origins-of-modern?store=book&keyword=sex+at+dawn+the+prehistoric+origins+of+modern) It covers the very subject. By the way, we are one of 5 species of Great Ape, Gorilla, Orangutang, and with a 1.6% difference in DNA, Chimpanzee, Bonabo, and Human, decended from a common ancestor, not a monkey.