# Armpit and Feet bacteria added to pheromones **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [February 5, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/armpit-and-feet-bacteria-added-to-pheromones/8914 "2008-02-05T22:04:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nbully79](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c68b51/32.png) [@nbully79](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/nbully79)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/armpit-and-feet-bacteria-added-to-pheromones/8914/1 "2008-02-05T22:04:13Z")
The two smelliest areas on human body are armpit and feet and not surprisingly they are also rich in bacteria. ScienceDirect - Journal of Ethnopharmacology : Isolation and in vitro antibacterial activity of astilbin, the bioactive flavanone from the leaves of Harungana madagascariensis The most common bacteria found in those regions are: **Armpit:** “…main bacteria responsible for bad odours: Corynebacterium xerosis, able to metabolize the local steroids with the formation of the smelliest compounds (Rennie et al., 1990)” Other armpit bacteria: Micrococcus luteus, Staphylococcus epidermidis, Staphylococcus haemolyticus, Staphylococcus hominis, Staphylococcus xylosus **Feet:** “…Staphylococcus epidermidis and Staphylococcus hominis are considered to be responsible for bad odours (Marshall et al., 1987 and Marshall et al., 1988) linked to the lack of aeration between the toes and to the confined, moist and warm microclimate inside the shoes, these conditions being different from those of the armpit.” Other feet bacteria: Acinetobacter sp., Alcaligenes sp., Coryneform group B, C and D, Micrococcus luteus, Micrococcus sedentarius, Moraxella sp, Staphylococcus cohnii, Staphylococcus haemolyticus Now we know that these bacteria are what aid in conversion from one pheromone molecule to another on our skin (most commonly known being from androstenol to androstenone). I was wondering about the possibility of adding these bacteria to some simple (preferably single molecule) [pheromone products](https://a314.com/shop/) and gauging their effectiveness. I think these bacteria should create a wonderful pallette of pheromones. The most obvious hindrance is that alcohol is not a friendly environment for most of these bacteria. _I know Androtics also adds anti-conversion ingredients in all their products to prevent conversions from happening in an uncontrolled way._ Many bacteria are available to purchase online ([Gibson Laboratories, Inc.](http://www.gibsonlabs.com/page1.htm) ), some we can grow ourselves in a petri-dish with our own armpit sample. Anyone has any suggestions on how to oversome the uninhabitable bacterial environment in the products? 🙂 If you are curious I will even tell you how NPA/The Edge gets its bite!!😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gegogi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gegogi/32/1536_2.png) [@Gegogi](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gegogi)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2008, 11:20pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/armpit-and-feet-bacteria-added-to-pheromones/8914/2 "2008-02-05T23:20:21Z")
> [@](#): > > The two smelliest areas on human body are armpit and feet and not surprisingly they are also rich in bacteria. Are you sure? I guess it depends on the person, but I’ve noticed the rankest funk outta people’s mouths–throat and mouth bacteria trumps pit and feet bacteria any day of the week! Male college students often have poor oral hygiene and I’ve gagged many times when I catch wind of them 6 feet out! Bungholes can’t be too far behind as well as unwashed vaginas. Give me toejam! I’ve tried the “pit trick” a few times with NPA and TE and didn’t think it did anything but make more stink. Didn’t seem to improve mones effectiveness one iota. ---
**Author:** ![bosshank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@bosshank](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bosshank)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 12:13am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/armpit-and-feet-bacteria-added-to-pheromones/8914/3 "2008-02-06T00:13:57Z")
> [@Gegogi](#): > > I’ve noticed the rankest funk outta people’s mouths–throat and mouth bacteria trumps pit and feet bacteria any day of the week! Male college students often have poor oral hygiene and I’ve gagged many times when I catch wind of them 6 feet out! Bungholes can’t be too far behind as well as unwashed vaginas. Give me toejam! 😮 ahhhh, ummmmm, errrrrr … hmmmmm - I think I will just keep out of this one -lol 😛 . ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 8:31am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/armpit-and-feet-bacteria-added-to-pheromones/8914/4 "2008-02-06T08:31:07Z")
> [@nbully79](#): > > The two smelliest areas on human body are armpit and feet and not surprisingly they are also rich in bacteria. > > ScienceDirect - Journal of Ethnopharmacology : Isolation and in vitro antibacterial activity of astilbin, the bioactive flavanone from the leaves of Harungana madagascariensis > > The most common bacteria found in those regions are: > > **Armpit:** “…main bacteria responsible for bad odours: Corynebacterium xerosis, able to metabolize the local steroids with the formation of the smelliest compounds (Rennie et al., 1990)” > > Other armpit bacteria: Micrococcus luteus, Staphylococcus epidermidis, Staphylococcus haemolyticus, Staphylococcus hominis, Staphylococcus xylosus > > **Feet:** “…Staphylococcus epidermidis and Staphylococcus hominis are considered to be responsible for bad odours (Marshall et al., 1987 and Marshall et al., 1988) linked to the lack of aeration between the toes and to the confined, moist and warm microclimate inside the shoes, these conditions being different from those of the armpit.” > > Other feet bacteria: Acinetobacter sp., Alcaligenes sp., Coryneform group B, C and D, Micrococcus luteus, Micrococcus sedentarius, Moraxella sp, Staphylococcus cohnii, Staphylococcus haemolyticus > > Now we know that these bacteria are what aid in conversion from one pheromone molecule to another on our skin (most commonly known being from androstenol to androstenone). > > I was wondering about the possibility of adding these bacteria to some simple (preferably single molecule) pheromone products and gauging their effectiveness. I think these bacteria should create a wonderful pallette of pheromones. The most obvious hindrance is that alcohol is not a friendly environment for most of these bacteria. > > _I know Androtics also adds anti-conversion ingredients in all their products to prevent conversions from happening in an uncontrolled way._ > > Many bacteria are available to purchase online ([Gibson Laboratories, Inc.](http://www.gibsonlabs.com/page1.htm) ), some we can grow ourselves in a petri-dish with our own armpit sample. Anyone has any suggestions on how to oversome the uninhabitable bacterial environment in the products? 🙂 > > If you are curious I will even tell you how NPA/The Edge gets its bite!!😉 Hey great work NBully! This is something that someone needs to try. I wonder how much they charge for those bacteria at Gibson Laboratories. Why not just put the bacteria on the skin and use pheromones with an oil base on top of where the bacteria was applied (I am assuming more bacteria would survive if the [pheromone product](https://a314.com/shop/) applied was oil based rather than alcohol based)? Below is a study mentioning both isolated Corynebacterium strains and mixed populations of Corynebacteria as being useful for our purposes. Gibson Laboratories has the following strains available according to their website ([Gibson Laboratories, Inc.](http://www.gibsonlabs.com/page1.htm)): \*\*Corynebacterium pseudodiphtheriticum \*\*\*\* 10700™\*\*\*\*\*1902 **C** Corynebacterium pseudodiphtheriticum \*\*\*\* 10701™\*\*\*\*\*10701 **C** Corynebacterium sp.(Exiguobacterium aurantiacum) \*\*\*\* 49676™\*\*\*\*\*1900 **D** Group A.\*\ ***Corynebacterium xerosis 373™\*\*\*\*\*1905D** [ScienceDirect - The Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology : Microbial pathways leading to steroidal malodour in the axilla](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T8X-49P82PS-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=94ba5d3c1680807dabb3301eb5fbac95) Microbial pathways leading to steroidal malodour in the axilla \*\*C. Austin[http://www.sciencedirect.com/scidirimg/entities/REcor.gif](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T8X-49P82PS-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=94ba5d3c1680807dabb3301eb5fbac95#m4.cor*), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/scidirimg/entities/REemail.gif](http://www.sciencedirect.com/scidirimg/entities/REemail.gif) , [a](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T8X-49P82PS-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=94ba5d3c1680807dabb3301eb5fbac95#aff1) and J. Ellis\*\*([http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?\_ob=ArticleURL&\_udi=B6T8X-49P82PS-2&\_user=10&\_rdoc=1&\_fmt=&\_orig=search&\_sort=d&view=c&\_acct=C000050221&\_version=1&\_urlVersion=0&\_userid=10&md5=94ba5d3c1680807dabb3301eb5fbac95#aff2](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T8X-49P82PS-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=94ba5d3c1680807dabb3301eb5fbac95#aff2)) \*\* a Unilever R&D Colworth, Sharnbrook, Bedfordshire MK44 1LQ, UK b Unipath Ltd., Bedford, UK Received 28 January 2003; accepted 16 June 2003. ; Available online 4 October 2003. **Abstract** Odorous steroids, specifically the 16-androstenes, 5α-androstenol and 5α-androstenone, are widely accepted as being contributors to underarm odour, but the precursors and pathways to these odorous steroids were unclear. This study demonstrated that the axillary microflora could only generate odorous 16-androstenes from precursors that already contain the C16 double bond, such as 5,16-androstadien-3-ol and 4,16-androstadien-3-one. In incubations containing 5,16-androstadien-3-ol, mixed populations of _Corynebacterium_ spp., isolated from the axilla, could generate many different 16-androstene metabolites, several of which were odorous. Isolation of individual _Corynebacterium_ strains, followed by pure culture incubations with 5,16-androstadien-3-ol, revealed organisms capable of efficient, rapid reactions. However, no single isolate could carry out a full complement of the observed biotransformations. 16-Androstene metabolites were identified by gas chromatography–mass spectrometry (GC–MS), either by comparison with known standards, or by prediction from molecular ion and fragmentation patterns. Based on detection of these metabolites, a metabolic map for axillary corynebacterial 16-androstene biotransformations was proposed, detailing potential enzyme activities. In summary, the formerly implicated 4,16-androstadien-3-one, 5α-androstenone and 5α-androstenol were detected, along with previously unreported hydroxy- and keto-substituted 16-androstenes, 16-androstatrienones and 16-androstatrienols. Additionally, many other metabolites with steroidal fragmentation patterns were present, but have remained unidentified. A key observation was that very low prevalences of microorganisms capable of biotransforming 16-androstenes were present on skin. For example, from a panel of 21 individuals, only 4 of 18 mixed populations of corynebacteria, and only 4 of 45 _Corynebacterium_ isolates, could biotransform 5,16-androstadien-3-ol. This study has increased understanding of the metabolic pathways involved in steroidal malodour formation, and has demonstrated that the biotransformations are more complex than previously anticipated. However, it is clear that further research is required, both to assess the level of contribution of 16-androstenes to underarm odour, and to further elucidate the pathways and odour molecules formed by corynebacteria. \*\*Author Keywords: **_Corynebacterium_; 16-Androstene; Axilla; Biotransformation; Steroid** ---
**Author:** ![nbully79](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c68b51/32.png) [@nbully79](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/nbully79)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 1:39pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/armpit-and-feet-bacteria-added-to-pheromones/8914/5 "2008-02-06T13:39:06Z")
Hey Visionary, thanks for the link to that study! From the study “In summary, the formerly implicated 4,16-androstadien-3-one, 5α-androstenone and 5α-androstenol were detected, along with **previously unreported hydroxy- and keto-substituted 16-androstenes, 16-androstatrienones and 16-androstatrienols. Additionally, many other metabolites with steroidal fragmentation patterns were present** , but have remained unidentified.” So this might very well work as you suggest. I suspect though that Androtics adds anti-microbial agents to their oil products as well which might kill the bacteria. So 5,16-androstadien-3-ol seems like a good starting point from the study. I don’t think the bacteria would be too expensive. At one other place I noticed they were selling similar strains at less than $10. Now maybe Androtics can custom make Androstadienol in non-anti-microbial solution (??) so we can play around with adding these bacteria on our own. According to the study the conversion is rapid, we just need to provide Coryneform bacteria of all strains. I suspect the ratios produced in the bottle will be much more similar to what is produced by human body naturally only in exaggerated amounts. ---
**Author:** ![bubblebob](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bubblebob/32/2120_2.png) [@bubblebob](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bubblebob)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/armpit-and-feet-bacteria-added-to-pheromones/8914/6 "2008-02-06T17:09:27Z")
Well, to be honest I don’t see that much of an advantage. If I spray myself with social mones I sure as hell don’t want them to turn to androstenone over the day… But the bacteria surely are a great way to find mones that weren’t previously studied so we can add some to our arsenal. ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2008, 8:03pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/armpit-and-feet-bacteria-added-to-pheromones/8914/7 "2008-02-10T20:03:09Z")
> [@nbully79](#): > > Hey Visionary, thanks for the link to that study! > > From the study “In summary, the formerly implicated 4,16-androstadien-3-one, 5α-androstenone and 5α-androstenol were detected, along with **previously unreported hydroxy- and keto-substituted 16-androstenes, 16-androstatrienones and 16-androstatrienols. Additionally, many other metabolites with steroidal fragmentation patterns were present** , but have remained unidentified.” > > So this might very well work as you suggest. I suspect though that Androtics adds anti-microbial agents to their oil products as well which might kill the bacteria. > > So 5,16-androstadien-3-ol seems like a good starting point from the study. I don’t think the bacteria would be too expensive. At one other place I noticed they were selling similar strains at less than $10. > > Now maybe Androtics can custom make Androstadienol in non-anti-microbial solution (??) so we can play around with adding these bacteria on our own. According to the study the conversion is rapid, we just need to provide Coryneform bacteria of all strains. I suspect the ratios produced in the bottle will be much more similar to what is produced by human body naturally only in exaggerated amounts. Yea it sounds like a good idea. The Androtics crew (MHarris/Jasmin/April/SteveO, etc) would be very busy at the moment given the public launch of Ammo and keeping up with everything else so dont expect them to jump on it quickly. But you could perhaps alert Jasmin or SteveO to the idea the next time they stop by at the forum - maybe PM them. Hopefully changing our bacterial balance on our skin is non-toxic lol… > [@bubblebob](#): > > Well, to be honest I don’t see that much of an advantage. If I spray myself with social pheromones I sure as hell don’t want them to turn to androstenone over the day… But the bacteria surely are a great way to find pheromones that weren’t previously studied so we can add some to our arsenal. I think its pretty much a myth that there are huge conversion problems to Androstenone with any [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/) before so I can’t see how applying bacteria would be much different. Like NBully says, “I think these bacteria should create a wonderful pallette of pheromones” and also I think it might be more of a ‘natural’ signature - small amounts of numerous pheromones rather than large amounts of a few pheromones as most people are putting on at the moment.