# before we move on, could we review the PUTATIVES ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [July 5, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476 "2006-07-05T17:01:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 1:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476/81 "2006-08-07T01:24:53Z")
putatives - old and new > [@](#): > > I wonder… the second batch of putatives - P81+. are they also found in the head sweat of attractive men? any thoughts, michael/jasmin? P87 does something to my mental state when whiffed from the bottle - possibly a shift in alertness/modulation of attention or vigilance. But for the life of me so far I don’t see a change in other peoples’ behaviour. P74 and EST seem to be good (when combined with a regular balanced mix inc A314 and Shine) at creating a cool vibe amongst men and women alike. You are a relaxed, charismatic presence - lovely guy/mature, powerful yet not intimidating and people smile, want to get to know you, invite you to parties. And I think this stays with them - it’s not like an OD of some of the simpler mixes where if you see someone again without it they are in a different state and it’s as if your interaction with them previously had never reached the level it did and they feel at some level puzzled about why they behaved that way towards you. I would love to see where this is going when it comes to complex, balanced mixes (such as A314) incorporating the valuable aspects of these new putatives. Make sure you are prepared to deal with unusual situations though, partic if beta-nol is involved. 😮 I had a girl (woman really, in her early 40s but looking good for it - she still had a fun playful attitude) that I had met at the bar with her friends ten minutes previously start crying and tell me that she had just broken up with her lover two days ago and was pregnant but he didn’t know it. Comforted her and by the end think she felt better (if surprised) for having gotten that off her chest - but what a wonderfully different world one can cross over into with pheromones and experimenting with different social behaviours. (I was experimenting with cold reading a little). She seemed more or less sober by the way; think her friends were quite surprised! Would this have happened without P74/EST? Unlikely so soon, even with beta-nol. Would beta-nol on it’s own have done this? Maybe, but have never seen that kind of emotional release. What’s the difference between P74 and EST anyway? You there, tacitus? I haven’t had enough instances of wearing one and not the other to have discovered. Now, was P74 the putative that made Jasmin super-emotional, I wonder? Willing to give it another try? ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476/82 "2006-08-21T21:33:04Z")
> [@tacitus](#): > > TAC can work two ways, it can have a quiescent, sort of meditative aspect, and it can be spontaneously very funny… TAC can also dampen the effects of other mones and take the edge of many emotions, so it may be really good with the male energy putatives to make them mellow and rounded. EST on the other hand is a flat out empathogen, people can feel understanding and well understood and at ease, sometimes so at ease they forget to censor their behavior… On a couple of occasions I have tried combining what would otherwise (for me) be OD levels of none with TAK with interesting results - none of the scary predator vibe but retaining at some level the high dominance and attraction that high 'none can generate (although displayed - via hair play etc - in a much more low key way). I wonder what TAC+none would be like. It’s possible, of course, that some of the Great None Experiment or TuTH 1.1 already incorporate this… ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476/83 "2006-08-21T21:54:13Z")
TAC with -none would be distinctly mellower than straight up -none, TAC can add an unexpected degree of hilarity… in this regard unlike any other phromone or putative I know about… she may be hysterically laughing as she tears your clothes off… ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2006, 9:06am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476/84 "2006-09-22T09:06:49Z")
> [@PheroQuirk](#): > > **P74 and EST** seem to be good (when combined with a regular balanced mix inc A314 and Shine) at creating a cool vibe amongst men and women alike. You are a **relaxed, charismatic presence - lovely guy/mature, powerful yet not intimidating and people smile, want to get to know you, invite you to parties.** **And I think this stays with them** - it’s not like an OD of some of the simpler mixes where if you see someone again without it they are in a different state and it’s as if your interaction with them previously had never reached the level it did and they feel at some level puzzled about why they behaved that way towards you… **What’s the difference between P74 and EST anyway?** You there, tacitus? I haven’t had enough instances of wearing one and not the other to have discovered… Just bumping this one as i am a curious beast.😃 I have heard this special ‘social’ effect of EST before where people kind of miss you and it is like a deeper connection (empathy) than ‘lighter’ pheromones (like Alpha Androstenol and TAA). As PQ said, the effect ‘stays with them’… Anymore thoughts on this? I would think this could be extremely useful with Spaceland ANol for example as a simple but powerful social mix. Can this effect be replicated with P74 or any other of the other putatives? Visionary ---
**Author:** ![R0N](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/r0n/32/1570_2.png) [@R0N](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/R0N)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2006, 7:41pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476/85 "2006-12-03T19:41:54Z")
> [@itwow](#): > > P74 30mcg > > 1st hour upon application : more friendly, approachability, greetings, hi!, “bonding” nicknames calling from my young herd of male kids. Adult males & females (22-55yo) smiling, chit-chat, more greetings than usual. > > More like a combined effects of WAGG+Scent of Eros, not goofy but approachable + laid-back small talk from others. Eye-contact is required for others to start talking. However, P74 doesn’t seem to work in more serious discussions though (i.e. work) but WAGG does. > > P74 responses are “unisex”, equal in intensity & response types on both genders (excluding gays). It seems to affect others more than myself, whereas WAGG and/or TAC affects myself & others equally. > > Effects start to taper off in the 2nd hour. Almost non-existant on the 3rd. Doesn’t last long in my weather. > > One of these days, I’m gonna have a blast with Instant Shine, WAGG, P74, TAC & Meo-EST 😃 although it was noted by tacitus that TAA+TAC doesn’t work quite well together (pull in different directions) > > i2w Im gay, and using putative 74 I got a mild headache within 10 minutes each time I tried it. I was wearing a squirt of [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/) and IO, plus YES! before I went out for dimsum with my bf. We sprayed ourselves with a squirt each of p74 at our table and found that there was not a noticable difference of people’s behaviour. I got a slight headache. But within an hour we started acting silly, and even laughing out loud! We sprayed again, only I got a headache, then felt lightheaded and silly. Each spray was on our chest. We didn’t notice people around us, except for attracting a few glances my bf saw. ---
**Author:** ![Bunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Bunny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Bunny)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 10:34am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476/86 "2007-01-17T10:34:22Z")
I love this thread, and notice a lot of new people here, so felt it would be a good idea to bring it to the fore again. I also have just made my first [P74](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p74/) purchase at 10 mcg, as I can’t find ANY data where one of us gals has used it, so once that arrives, I will be putting it to the test, and will report all results. Like all my Putatives, I have had this one scented with Chocolatini, as it definitely aids diffusion. Ail 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Scottie2Hottie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/scottie2hottie/32/628_2.png) [@Scottie2Hottie](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Scottie2Hottie)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 2:28pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476/87 "2007-01-17T14:28:00Z")
> [@Socrates](#): > > Just bumping this one as i am a curious beast.😃 > > I have heard this special ‘social’ effect of EST before where people kind of miss you and it is like a deeper connection (empathy) than ‘lighter’ pheromones (like Alpha Androstenol and TAA). As PQ said, the effect ‘stays with them’… > > Anymore thoughts on this? I would think this could be extremely useful with Spaceland Alpha Androstenol for example as a simple but powerful social mix. > > Can this effect be replicated with P74 or any other of the other putatives? > > Visionary I can vouch for the P74 + EST combo…even w/out the A314 or [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/). ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2007, 1:22am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476/88 "2007-01-20T01:22:17Z")
> [@Scottie2Hottie](#): > > I can vouch for the P74 + EST combo…even w/out the A314 or Instant Shine. What can you vouch for exactly? Also can you describe differences between [P74](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p74/) and EST in detail please and at what doses… Thanks Visionary ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 1:00am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476/89 "2007-03-05T01:00:14Z")
> [@tacitus](#): > > Harris & Co. are wisely using us as a giant feedback generator to steer the development of superior products… the more we can elucidate, the more he can create… in other words, we are in a dialectical relationship with the author … which IMHO is a very sophisticated business model because the product development cycle is always up and running with a just in time delivery frame… which ultimately means better results for everybody… > > With that thought in mind… I just received my new test project from them, **a precisely balanced mix of 10 mu P75, P76, P77, P78 each for a total of 40 mu per squirt.**.. first impressions ? Much more favorable than any single juice right out of the bottle… nature definitely seems to favor the “distributed message model” … a solid, clean head clearing positive feeling of confident functionality… and clearly “broadband” as well … there wasn’t this annoying, pushy, **out of balance twing** that can come with too much of one thing at the expense of another… this is suggesting that a juice that is 5 mu each of ten putatives **may be a lot more enjoyable, and useful, and all around engrossing that 50 mu of any one thing or even 25 mu of two things…** do you still use these? worth adding to richen the ultimate symphonic mix? ---
**Author:** ![nbully79](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c68b51/32.png) [@nbully79](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/nbully79)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 4:19pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476/90 "2008-05-08T16:19:10Z")
Lots of good information about putatives here! ---
**Author:** ![smn1234](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/smn1234/32/2430_2.png) [@smn1234](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/smn1234)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 1:19pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476/91 "2008-05-13T13:19:13Z")
ayy this needs to be organized in one post ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476/92 "2008-05-13T17:36:16Z")
> [@smn1234](#): > > ayy this needs to be organized in one post It’s about in ‘one place’ as it’s going to be..there’s 9 pages of info here. In any case, there are too many other reports to compile them all into one post (I assume for readability if nothing else.). But I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476/93 "2008-05-13T22:13:18Z")
> [@smn1234](#): > > ayy this needs to be organized in one post I was trying to summarise this in the following thread: > [@Aside from 'the big four' (P 74, 79, 83, 93), what are your favourite putatives?](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/aside-from-the-big-four-p-74-79-83-93-what-are-your-favourite-putatives/7920/5): > > The best of P84 from the forum so far… [https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p84-a-juicier-version-of-p85/636/1](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/p84-a-juicier-version-of-p85/636) Tacitus (September 1, 2006): “ P84… a juicier version of P85 ? interesting to consider… the first round of P series 74-80 had a lot of -none analog sorts of things going on, with the strong exception of P74 itself… while the P series 81-88 so far seems to have more of a gender neutral brain tuning sensibility… P88 would be the exotic animal of this round, as P78 was the exotic animal of the … It is still a work in progress… ---
**Author:** ![ProtoJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7feea3/32.png) [@ProtoJay](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ProtoJay)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 12:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476/94 "2008-09-06T12:08:40Z")
> [@tacitus](#): > > I’m getting remarkable social results with P74 when the dosage is upped… either alone or put into mixes… at higher levels it really opens up converstaion and approacability… in a not so Alpha Androstenol way, not so romantic, more **hyper-empathetic** … P79 may be one of those that some respond to more than others… neither P79 not P80 seem like they are inherently “reproductive”, like androstenone is… haven’t tried P75-P78 yet… some of these also appear to work as adjuncts, where the full effect will appear if used in combination with A314 or another balanced blend… Wow, I have p74 and I have used it quite a bit in my main mixes, often times with high levels of nols… I am not 100% sure of what it is exactly, although apparently it is like EST… My doses are usually 30-60mcg but I really want to eventually try higher doses, feels like I would need dozens of sprays lol… Im actually quite excited to figure out what it does and if it is “hyper-empathetic” and gives a cool vibe that seems like it would have a really nice effect… ---
**Author:** ![Jasmin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jasmin/32/287_2.png) [@Jasmin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jasmin)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 1:43pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476/95 "2010-02-13T13:43:57Z")
Let’s push this thread to the top… I just restocked a handful of putatives tonight, and this thread was always a nice place to stimulate some feedback. I can’t remember exactly which putatives I restocked.. I know MEO-EST was on that list… Updates are posted [to this thread on about page 4](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-mxs-would-you-like-me-to-restock/36196) ---
**Author:** ![Bro\_Ball](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b19c9b/32.png) [@Bro\_Ball](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Bro_Ball)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476/96 "2010-02-16T03:23:36Z")
> [@Jasmin](#): > > Let’s push this thread to the top… I just restocked a handful of putatives tonight, and this thread was always a nice place to stimulate some feedback. > > I can’t remember exactly which putatives I restocked.. I know MEO-EST was on that list… Updates are posted [to this thread on about page 4](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/what-mxs-would-you-like-me-to-restock/36196) Sounds great! Although lots are already sold out again. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![mwilliamson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mwilliamson/32/1587_2.png) [@mwilliamson](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mwilliamson)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 5:38am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476/97 "2010-02-16T05:38:50Z")
The male putative mones seem to be like an instant man maturity kind deal from what im reading here. ---
**Author:** ![floydianone](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/floydianone/32/2301_2.png) [@floydianone](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/floydianone)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476/98 "2010-02-16T19:43:27Z")
as far as putatives go…I only have experience with p74 and p83. But I can safely say that p74 and p83 @30mcg each combined with 2 sprays of [Ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/) on my wrists and 1 spray of TUTH on my chest has become my favorite mix so far for the bar or club. I have not tried p74 or p83 in any of my daytime mixes but for breaking down personal space barriers in social settings its amazing. For the past three wkends, me and a friend went out to the casinos. I always make sure to sit at the bar at one of the video poker machines where people always stand and order drinks so my phero cloud can be most effective. It seems with this mix everytime a group of people come up to order drinks, even if they came to get drinks to take back to someone else, they (especially women) open conversation and hang out talking and chillin in my cloud. Also the women always find a way to touch me or rub me during the conversation. I am loving every night with this mix but if anyone has any suggestions on ways to make it even better, I’m all ears! ---
**Author:** ![taote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@taote](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/taote)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 8:58am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476/99 "2012-05-11T08:58:36Z")
> [@itwow](#): > > It’s like if a carpenter was on your roof repairing it, you don’t need to stand there and watch him all day, you just know that he is there. So in not so many words, you just leave the light there without constantly focusing on it. That will keep the whole area very busy. I don’t know exactly what this area of the brain is supposed to do, but I know this works and that’s all that really matters at this point." > > i2w Well it creates a mini-vortex that pulls energy in through the crown (it’s what it is for, hence the “soft spot”) which opens up and balances the mind notably and the rest of the body more subtly. Part of the reason it calms the mind is that it provides the energetic stimulation to override the needless racing of the mind all too many of us deal with. It’s a naturally occurring channel that we all have and in rather literal way that visualization is flipping a switch to turn on a light. Electricity is constantly running through the wires in our walls, but the bulb will not illuminate the room until you complete the circuit. And that’s when you can start really removing the “clutter.” [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/before-we-move-on-could-we-review-the-putatives/476.md?page=4)