# Betanol vs. Alphanol: An Alternative View **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [December 9, 2007, 10:27am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242 "2007-12-09T10:27:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TRDE59](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/trde59/32/412_2.png) [@TRDE59](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/TRDE59)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2007, 10:27am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/1 "2007-12-09T10:27:17Z")
As many of you may know, drugs, just like [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/), often have different isomers. Ibuprofen, for example, has two isomers, but the cheapest way of making ibuprofen is creating it and leaving both isomers together. One isomer is the active isomer, while one isomer is totally inactive. So, basically, only half of your ibuprofen is really working. It’s cheap, though, so it really doesn’t matter if you have to take more. Amphetamines (such as adderall) are another example. Dextro-amphetamine creates the effect you want (energy & concentration) but levo-amphetamine, unlike the other isomer in ibuprofen, IS active in your body. Levo amphetamine raises your levels of dopamine (for pleasure and concentration) in a lower ratio vs. norepinephrine (for energy). The result is agitation/anxiety, since energy is increased disproportionately to focus and pleasure. The dextro isomer effects them in a more proportionate way, causing you to have energy AND concentration/good mood. Because of this, the dextro isomer is the “good” isomer, and it’s the one we want to have. The point of all that is this: rarely does a drug have two isomers that are both “good,” just with different effects. Usually one is more ideal, while the other one sucks. I’m wondering if the androstenols are the same way. Most people think alpha Androstenol encourages quantity of conversation, while beta Androstenol encourages quality. My experience begs to differ. In my phero escapades, I’ve noticed just as much increased conversation (or more so) with instant honesty than I have in either spaceland or scent of eros. I’m wondering if betanol is really the more ideal isomer here overall. Alphanol might be able to increase conversation, but it doesn’t increase conversation depth. Betanol facilitates conversation, in my experience, equal to or better than alphanol, with the added depth (sometimes) that alphanol fails to deliver. I think the reason betanol increases conversation depth is cause, in general, it’s just a more effective molecule overall. **Betanol makes people feel more comfortable around you than alphanol does.** Alphanol will just give you a buzz, and increased conversation is just a side effect. ---
**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2007, 11:04am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/2 "2007-12-09T11:04:39Z")
You have the makings of a great experiment, there, TRD; great hypothesis. I’m still thinking of how I’d test it without an NSF grant and a Latin Square design, in a “natural” experiment. PS: I’ve done toilofday’s Megadose Challenge with Spaceland, and the quality of the B-nol big dose ~does~ seem to create much more comfort and rapport than the A-nol. Next to see if/how isolating the B-nol changes the outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2007, 12:03pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/3 "2007-12-09T12:03:14Z")
> [@TRDE59](#): > > As many of you may know, drugs, just like pheromones, often have different isomers. Ibuprofen, for example, has two isomers, but the cheapest way of making ibuprofen is creating it and leaving both isomers together. One isomer is the active isomer, while one isomer is totally inactive. So, basically, only half of your ibuprofen is really working. It’s cheap, though, so it really doesn’t matter if you have to take more. > > Amphetamines (such as adderall) are another example. Dextro-amphetamine creates the effect you want (energy & concentration) but levo-amphetamine, unlike the other isomer in ibuprofen, IS active in your body. Levo amphetamine raises your levels of dopamine (for pleasure and concentration) in a lower ratio vs. norepinephrine (for energy). The result is agitation/anxiety, since energy is increased disproportionately to focus and pleasure. The dextro isomer effects them in a more proportionate way, causing you to have energy AND concentration/good mood. > > Because of this, the dextro isomer is the “good” isomer, and it’s the one we want to have. > > The point of all that is this: rarely does a drug have two isomers that are both “good,” just with different effects. Usually one is more ideal, while the other one sucks. I’m wondering if the androstenols are the same way. > > Most people think alpha Androstenol encourages quantity of conversation, while beta Androstenol encourages quality. My experience begs to differ. In my phero escapades, I’ve noticed just as much increased conversation (or more so) with instant honesty than I have in either spaceland or scent of eros. I’m wondering if betanol is really the more ideal isomer here overall. Alphanol might be able to increase conversation, but it doesn’t increase conversation depth. Betanol facilitates conversation, in my experience, equal to or better than alphanol, with the added depth (sometimes) that alphanol fails to deliver. > > I think the reason betanol increases conversation depth is cause, in general, it’s just a more effective molecule overall. **Betanol makes people feel more comfortable around you than alphanol does.** Alphanol will just give you a buzz, and increased conversation is just a side effect. Yea cool thread here TRDE! You may be right that Betanol makes people more comfortable around you than Alphanol in a mcg to mcg comparison between the two molecules however: - Alpha-Nol is better at creating a ‘fun’ vibe (for example I have noticed that whenever I leave out AlphaNol from a mix I am likely to receive less invites to social events); - Alpha-Nol is a key ingredient in both George Dodd’s and James V. Kohl’s [pheromone products](https://a314.com/shop/) (these are two established names in the pheromone world) so it must be a damn useful pheromone; - it is pretty well known that Alpha-Nol boosts people’s moods and Beta-Nol doesn’t; and - Alpha-Nol might be better than Beta-Nol as an aid for attraction purposes although it might not matter so much for a stud like MarkL 😛 (for example see the posts from MHarris pasted in below). **So it is a tradeoff I do believe. No doubt Beta-Nol is amazing at helping to build rapport, making people feel comfortable around the wearer, and getting people to spill secrets. But for good times, friendships made of fun, sillyness without the alcohol, laughs, smiles and elation, Alpha-Nol still rules the roost…** [Sexual hits with nols: does heavy Anol from IO or IH dull TUTH's Anone?](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/sexual-hits-with-nols/138/3) ([Sexual hits with nols: does heavy Anol from IO or IH dull TUTH's Anone?](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/sexual-hits-with-nols/138/3)) MHarris (February 13, 2006): “…Remember, people actually _see you differently_ depending on the pheromones you wear. Their minds accentuate different characteristics of yours depending upon the " **pheromonal feel" you’re putting out there.** **Lots of** Alpha Androstenol ([Instant Openness – Ice Breaker Pheromone for Men - Alpha A314](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/))\*\*\*\* will help you to be viewed in a brighter and “softer light”. If you tend to come across a serious, it can be a godsend.\*\* If you’re flamboyant, and women commonly mistake you for gay (like a young PaulyShore), then sure… high Alpha Androstenol ([Instant Openness – Ice Breaker Pheromone for Men - Alpha A314](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/)) may not serve you. I tend to wear darker colors, and I think a lot, so I naturally have lots of “thinking expressions”. Those make me look pretty serious. **Lots of alpha androstenol ([Instant Openness – Ice Breaker Pheromone for Men - Alpha A314](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/)) actually helps me out a good deal. It carries along with it a fun, “good time” vibe.** **To me, because I have a heavy persona, it’s still somewhat sexual.** **Sure, it’s not scary-sexual,** like the folks like the folks who wear leather mask that want to flail you until you have a near death experience… **but fun & light still has a sexual element to it.** **Reframe it as “fun in bed”, and you’ll get what you mean.** You just don’t want to be _too_ fun… Richard Simmons/Pauly Shore type fun is probably far along the “fun-o-meter” (right into flamboyancy) to really be attractive. When they “hookup”, it’s because of the social proof elements of their celebrity.” [Sexual hits with nols: does heavy Anol from IO or IH dull TUTH's Anone?](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/sexual-hits-with-nols/138/4) ([Sexual hits with nols: does heavy Anol from IO or IH dull TUTH's Anone?](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/sexual-hits-with-nols/138/4)) MHarris (February 13, 2006): “… **Right, there’s a strong “play” element to** Alpha Androstenol ([Instant Openness – Ice Breaker Pheromone for Men - Alpha A314](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/)). **It’s actually perfect for meeting people, building comfort and attraction. Good pre-sex.** **Sometimes fun during sex – depends on how intense and serious you like yours sex.** ” [Suggestions for MHarris regarding future putative mones - #5 by MHarris](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/suggestions-for-mharris-regarding-future-putative-mones/321/5) ([Suggestions for MHarris regarding future putative mones - #5 by MHarris](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/suggestions-for-mharris-regarding-future-putative-mones/321/5)) MHarris (April 29, 2006): “… **While I don’t call alpha-androstenol a “sexual pheromone”, it is still sexual in this way.** **Even if exposure doesn’t instantly evoke mental pictures of genitalia and ripplying muscles, it’s still has attributes which tie into our attraction triggering system.** \*_Spirited communication & feelings of elation are sexy,_ they are attractive. \*\*\* **So is the sometimes mental “stun” effect of Alpha Androstenol.** **Who do we tend to go mentally blank around, after all?** \ ***People we’re attracted to!** \*\* \*\*The chatty effect, too. Who do women often chat like maniacs around? _ **People they’re attracted to…** ”_ [CTTM 2 and IH](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/cttm-2-and-ih/517/8) ([CTTM 2 and IH](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/cttm-2-and-ih/517/8)) MHarris (July 31, 2006): “…Or _any_ single pheromone **Heck, you can read “hit reports” at [basenotes.net](http://basenotes.net), a normal perfume site, for Andron. That came out out over 25 years ago (1981). Besides the fragrance, the only pheromone it contained was Alpha Androstenol. That’s it!** [http://www.basenotes.net/ID26120099.html](http://www.basenotes.net/ID26120099.html) ([http://www.basenotes.net/ID26120099.html](http://www.basenotes.net/ID26120099.html)) “I would give my left \_\_\_ to locate a case of this.” **Again… Alpha Androstenol, my friend. Just friendly ol’ Alpha Androstenol. (if you search around the forums a bit, you can see what I describe as the “blank effect” from Alpha Androstenol, which are brains can sometimes attribute to attraction)** Incidentally, our fragrances are designed for us by the same same fragrance technology development house that developed Andron for Jovan. So we’re actually the closest thing to Andron these days. Just updated with 25 more years of experience.” ---
**Author:** ![Genesis](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/genesis/32/440_2.png) [@Genesis](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Genesis)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2007, 12:59pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/4 "2007-12-09T12:59:59Z")
great theory TRDE, great explanation from visionary. you guys make me wanna buy spaceland or heavy concentration of A -nols when they come back!! +repps ---
**Author:** ![Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gone_with_the_wind/32/2227_2.png) [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gone_with_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2007, 1:21pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/5 "2007-12-09T13:21:10Z")
I’ll note that the Androtics shopping site offers [Instant Openness](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/) in 1x and 2x, and Instant Honesty in 1x, 2x, and 4x. Given comparable dosages (and we’ve been told that equal parts Instant Openness and Instant Honesty approximate the 50/50 ratio in cttm) the beta Androstenol product is being offered commercially in higher doses. I wonder if market forces drove this decision. ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2007, 1:27pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/6 "2007-12-09T13:27:17Z")
Fantastic posts, filled with great info. \>\>\>\>\>Tisha is taking notes cause I just got a big bottle of bnol 😛 ---
**Author:** ![MadisonTate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@MadisonTate](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MadisonTate)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/7 "2007-12-09T17:36:20Z")
> [@TRDE59](#): > > As many of you may know, drugs, just like pheromones, often have different isomers. Ibuprofen, for example, has two isomers, but the cheapest way of making ibuprofen is creating it and leaving both isomers together. One isomer is the active isomer, while one isomer is totally inactive. So, basically, only half of your ibuprofen is really working. It’s cheap, though, so it really doesn’t matter if you have to take more. > > Amphetamines (such as adderall) are another example. Dextro-amphetamine creates the effect you want (energy & concentration) but levo-amphetamine, unlike the other isomer in ibuprofen, IS active in your body. Levo amphetamine raises your levels of dopamine (for pleasure and concentration) in a lower ratio vs. norepinephrine (for energy). The result is agitation/anxiety, since energy is increased disproportionately to focus and pleasure. The dextro isomer effects them in a more proportionate way, causing you to have energy AND concentration/good mood. > > Because of this, the dextro isomer is the “good” isomer, and it’s the one we want to have. > > The point of all that is this: rarely does a drug have two isomers that are both “good,” just with different effects. Usually one is more ideal, while the other one sucks. I’m wondering if the androstenols are the same way. > > Most people think alpha Androstenol encourages quantity of conversation, while beta Androstenol encourages quality. My experience begs to differ. In my phero escapades, I’ve noticed just as much increased conversation (or more so) with instant honesty than I have in either spaceland or scent of eros. I’m wondering if betanol is really the more ideal isomer here overall. Alphanol might be able to increase conversation, but it doesn’t increase conversation depth. Betanol facilitates conversation, in my experience, equal to or better than alphanol, with the added depth (sometimes) that alphanol fails to deliver. > > I think the reason betanol increases conversation depth is cause, in general, it’s just a more effective molecule overall. **Betanol makes people feel more comfortable around you than alphanol does.** Alphanol will just give you a buzz, and increased conversation is just a side effect. Tater hasnt tried alpha/beta androstenol on their own, but does see the same effects at higher dosages with IO compared to IH. If you check my early journal entries, i always saw better effects with CTTM and IH than IO. But there are other differences. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2007, 10:22pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/8 "2007-12-09T22:22:28Z")
> [@](#): > > The point of all that is this: rarely does a drug have two isomers that are both “good,” just with different effects. Usually one is more ideal, while the other one sucks. I’m wondering if the androstenols are the same way. It’s an interesting analogy, but that hasn’t been my experience. They both do useful but distinct things (as summarised excellently by Visionary). Overall alpha-nol has a stronger intrinsically attractive vibe and is generally much safer to OD on, particularly if alcohol is involved. Read some of tacitus’s posts regarding betanol and ‘excess shit on the brain’ - that lines up v much with my own experience. ---
**Author:** ![Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gone_with_the_wind/32/2227_2.png) [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gone_with_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 4:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/9 "2007-12-10T04:23:18Z")
I wonder what the ratios of alpha/beta nols are in human sweat, and if they change based on mood, health, etc. Does anyone have data on that? Given that the 2 nol isomers do seem to have slightly different effects, they can be used as tools based on what they do. ---
**Author:** ![nbully79](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c68b51/32.png) [@nbully79](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/nbully79)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 5:04am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/10 "2007-12-10T05:04:45Z")
> [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](#): > > I wonder what the ratios of alpha/beta nols are in human sweat, and if they change based on mood, health, etc. Does anyone have data on that? > > Given that the 2 Androstenol isomers do seem to have slightly different effects, they can be used as tools based on what they do. This might help: "Simultaneous quantification of five odorous steroids (16-androstenes) in the axillary hair of men, " **Nixon A** (["Nixon A"[Author] - Search Results - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_Citation&term=%22Nixon+A%22%5BAuthor%5D)), **Mallet AI** (["Mallet AI"[Author] - Search Results - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_Citation&term=%22Mallet+AI%22%5BAuthor%5D)) and **Gower DB** (["Gower DB"[Author] - Search Results - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_Citation&term=%22Gower+DB%22%5BAuthor%5D)), (Division of Biochemistry, United Medical School, Guy’s Hospital, London, England) Quantities found (pmol/mg.hair, with approximate 24-h totals in parentheses) were: Androstenone - 5 alpha-androst-16-en-3-one, 0-15 (0-433) Androstadienone - 4, 16-androstadien-3-one, 0-143 (0-4103) Beta-Androstadienol - 5,16-androstadien-3 beta-ol, 0-3.5 (0-728) **Alpha-Androstenol- 5 alpha-androst-16-en-3 alpha-ol, 0-17 (0-1752)** **Beta-Androstenol - 5 alpha-androst-16-en-3 beta-ol, 0-4 (0-416)** ---
**Author:** ![MadisonTate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@MadisonTate](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MadisonTate)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 5:16am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/11 "2007-12-10T05:16:58Z")
Reps for that! Hey nbully, whered you find that information? ---
**Author:** ![TRDE59](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/trde59/32/412_2.png) [@TRDE59](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/TRDE59)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 5:51am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/12 "2007-12-10T05:51:36Z")
> [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](#): > > I wonder what the ratios of alpha/beta nols are in human sweat, and if they change based on mood, health, etc. Does anyone have data on that? > > Given that the 2 Androstenol isomers do seem to have slightly different effects, they can be used as tools based on what they do. Judging from what I know about how organic compounds are formed, I would think the ratio is about 50/50. But does this apply to pheromones? Probably, but who knows? Interesting theories all around, guys. I like this discussion. To continue: What’s weird about the fun, happy, party effects we’re seeing with Alphanol is the fact that these effects are not seen with natural levels of this phero in people’s sweat. [Androstenol as a Pheromone Promoting Pillow Talk](http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/images/androstenol_as_a_pheromone_promo.htm) According to this article, androstenol really doesn’t permeate to great lengths naturally. It’s meant for specific pair bonding. The only time a female would be able to detect natural levels of androstenol on a male would be when she’s cuddling with him, either before or after sex. It’s meant to facilitate the kind of “let me get to know you” pillow talk, as well as create feelings of mutual attraction and friendship. Obviously this would aid in mate selection, as you are more likely to mate with people you feel more closely bonded to. In these situations, it would seem that the betanol effects would be much more appropriate. And from what I gather is that alphanol, naturally, would not be perceptible more than a couple feet away. Considering you need quite high doses of alphanol to get a “fun party” buzzy effect, anyway, it seems to me the response to the alphanol is quite unnatural. Even if a female were around 12 naked sweaty guys (keep your mind out of the gutter, Tisha 😉 ), she would not get the same amount of androstenol as being around 1 person wearing instant openness. So, really, I don’t think alphanol was “intended” to illicit these types of responses. I think it’s really just one pheromone, androstenol, with a “complete” isomer and an “incomplete” isomer which has some of the effects, but not all of them. Maybe the responses we get to alphanol are the results of an incomplete or distorted message. Your mind just sort of fills in the blanks appropriately to the mood. I think alphanol is an intensifier of sorts. Not in the same way that a p79 is, but maybe just specific to social situations. I’ve never found alphanol to be a starter of conversations. It doesn’t suddenly make someone want to talk to you. Nor does it suddenly turn a boring lecture hall into a lively debate. But, if you’re in a social situation, already having fun, and chemicals such as oxytocin and vasopressin are more active in your brain, then these “incomplete” messages are understood by your brain, and they intensify the desire to converse. Betanol is probably a little different. Once you can identify that the connection you’re feeling is with that person, it is a starter of conversations, usually. It helps to give people a desire to talk if they feel close enough to you. Alphanol just intensifies that desire if it’s already there. Alphanol kind of “needs” the right environment, in my experience. You could be as charming and friendly and have as much game as the top PUA’s, but if the environment isn’t right, then you’re not going to see as many results with alphanol as you’d like. Betanol, however, is more PERSON dependant. You don’t need the right environment for betanol to work. You just need to be the kind of person she’s attracted to. We need someone like Dr. Kohl to get in on this. ---
**Author:** ![TRDE59](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/trde59/32/412_2.png) [@TRDE59](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/TRDE59)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 5:55am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/13 "2007-12-10T05:55:37Z")
> [@nbully79](#): > > This might help: > > "Simultaneous quantification of five odorous steroids (16-androstenes) in the axillary hair of men, " **Nixon A** (["Nixon A"[Author] - Search Results - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_Citation&term=%22Nixon+A%22%5BAuthor%5D)), **Mallet AI** (["Mallet AI"[Author] - Search Results - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_Citation&term=%22Mallet+AI%22%5BAuthor%5D)) and **Gower DB** (["Gower DB"[Author] - Search Results - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_Citation&term=%22Gower+DB%22%5BAuthor%5D)), (Division of Biochemistry, United Medical School, Guy’s Hospital, London, England) > > Quantities found (pmol/mg.hair, with approximate 24-h totals in parentheses) were: > > Androstenone - 5 alpha-androst-16-en-3-one, 0-15 (0-433) > Androstadienone - 4, 16-androstadien-3-one, 0-143 (0-4103) > Beta-Androstadienol - 5,16-androstadien-3 beta-ol, 0-3.5 (0-728) > **Alpha-Androstenol- 5 alpha-androst-16-en-3 alpha-ol, 0-17 (0-1752)** > **Beta-Androstenol - 5 alpha-androst-16-en-3 beta-ol, 0-4 (0-416)** Hmmm. Interesting, cause (if I’m reading it correctly) then it looks like your body produces more alphanol than betanol… by a lot. Good info. Rep-style for you. ---
**Author:** ![Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gone_with_the_wind/32/2227_2.png) [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gone_with_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:47am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/14 "2007-12-10T06:47:39Z")
> [@nbully79](#): > > This might help: > > "Simultaneous quantification of five odorous steroids (16-androstenes) in the axillary hair of men, " **Nixon A** (["Nixon A"[Author] - Search Results - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_Citation&term=%22Nixon+A%22%5BAuthor%5D)), **Mallet AI** (["Mallet AI"[Author] - Search Results - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_Citation&term=%22Mallet+AI%22%5BAuthor%5D)) and **Gower DB** (["Gower DB"[Author] - Search Results - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_Citation&term=%22Gower+DB%22%5BAuthor%5D)), (Division of Biochemistry, United Medical School, Guy’s Hospital, London, England) > > Quantities found (pmol/mg.hair, with approximate 24-h totals in parentheses) were: > > Androstenone - 5 alpha-androst-16-en-3-one, 0-15 (0-433) > Androstadienone - 4, 16-androstadien-3-one, 0-143 (0-4103) > Beta-Androstadienol - 5,16-androstadien-3 beta-ol, 0-3.5 (0-728) > **Alpha-Androstenol- 5 alpha-androst-16-en-3 alpha-ol, 0-17 (0-1752)** > **Beta-Androstenol - 5 alpha-androst-16-en-3 beta-ol, 0-4 (0-416)** Interesting. Approximate ratios of the 24 hour totals in this measurement were: Androstenone - 1 Androstadienone - 10 Beta-Androstadienol - 2 **Alpha-Androstenol- 4** **Beta-Androstenol - 1** This suggests a 4/1 alpha/beta nol ratio might be “natural,” at least for the population measured. I hope it wasn’t a bunch of octogenarians in a nursing home! ---
**Author:** ![MadisonTate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@MadisonTate](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MadisonTate)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 7:08am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/15 "2007-12-10T07:08:08Z")
Reps to TRDE. Im on the same page with you and think your analysis has many good points. I would value nbullys information more if i knew something about the sample group. Somebody should PM the good Dr. Kohl. ---
**Author:** ![Smudge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@Smudge](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Smudge)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 8:40am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/16 "2007-12-10T08:40:06Z")
> [@nbully79](#): > > Quantities found (pmol/mg.hair, with approximate 24-h totals in parentheses) were: > > Androstenone - 5 alpha-androst-16-en-3-one, 0-15 (0-433) > Androstadienone - 4, 16-androstadien-3-one, 0-143 (0-4103) > Beta-Androstadienol - 5,16-androstadien-3 beta-ol, 0-3.5 (0-728) > **Alpha-Androstenol- 5 alpha-androst-16-en-3 alpha-ol, 0-17 (0-1752)** > **Beta-Androstenol - 5 alpha-androst-16-en-3 beta-ol, 0-4 (0-416)** It is easy to jump to conclusions simply by reading abstracts. Without reading the article itself, I don’t think anyone should be using these figures lightly. Admittedly, I have not read it (the paper). Hence, I don’t know if the results are statistically meaningful and if the study design has flaws. Also, I am unsure what the figures actually represent. The entire range of data from all subjects? Mean +/- SEM or SD? n=? A few things just came to my mind since we are talking about compounds and concentrations. Virtually all but less than a handful of posts I have come across assume the pheromones are agonists. But, who is to say that the assumption is accurate? For all we know, some of these might be antagonists, or in even more complicated scenarios, allosteric modulators. In the former case, one compound would give an effect that actually comes from another compound. All the while in the latter case, you can apply an insanely large amount of one or more compounds but yields nothing if the modulator is absent. Sometimes I think the reason some of us not getting effects from certain products may be due to this modulation, apart from human factors that is; individuals may be naturally producing too little of something for the effects of certain products to be noticeable. I think I talk too much. :o ---
**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 10:08am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/17 "2007-12-10T10:08:34Z")
Beta-Androstadienol? ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 10:16am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/18 "2007-12-10T10:16:04Z")
> [@TRDE59](#): > > Alphanol kind of “needs” the right environment, in my experience. You could be as charming and friendly and have as much game as the top PUA’s, but if the environment isn’t right, then you’re not going to see as many results with alphanol as you’d like. Betanol, however, is more PERSON dependant. You don’t need the right environment for betanol to work. You just need to be the kind of person she’s attracted to. > > We need someone like Dr. Kohl to get in on this. I think you might be on to something. A few days ago I used a couple of 2x strength betanol plus one spray alphanol with good results.. see my journal. A -noneless mix with betanol seems to work better for me than one with just alphanol. With -none I haven’t thought about it so far.. ---
**Author:** ![Gegogi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gegogi/32/1536_2.png) [@Gegogi](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gegogi)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 10:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/19 "2007-12-10T10:23:56Z")
Yep, beta-Androstadienol or androsta-4,16-dien-3beta-ol. I haven’t a clue what it does. Supposed to be a derivative of androstadienone. But you can buy it for $40 for 10ml from an unmentionable source. If it’s found in your armpits it must be good… ---
**Author:** ![nbully79](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c68b51/32.png) [@nbully79](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/nbully79)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 1:27pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242/20 "2007-12-10T13:27:17Z")
Thanks for the rep points guys! There is more info when you do a search for the title. Sadly I haven’t read the full paper only the abstract, so I can’t add more info. [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/betanol-vs-alphanol-an-alternative-view/7242.md?page=2)