# Can someone identify this molecule: is it Meo-Est? **URL:** \ **Category:** Pheromone Theory & Molecules\ **Created:** [July 2, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/can-someone-identify-this-molecule-is-it-meo-est/30316 "2009-07-02T01:07:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![zeph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/85e7bf/32.png) [@zeph](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/zeph)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 1:23pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/can-someone-identify-this-molecule-is-it-meo-est/30316/21 "2009-07-18T13:23:54Z")
Out of curiosity, what is your purpose in this Diane? If you want, I have offsite access to UCI’s regular and science libraries and all their search engines and literature that I do not use. On another note, on the chart that Tisha posted, anyone notice how the A ring for the “female” compounds are all conjugated where as the “male” ones are not? So how is it that women are insane? 😛 Or it can work the other way, it explain why women are more stable and men are so dumb. xD ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/can-someone-identify-this-molecule-is-it-meo-est/30316/22 "2009-07-18T15:32:34Z")
> [@zeph](#): > > Out of curiosity, what is your purpose in this Diane? > If you want, I have offsite access to UCI’s regular and science libraries and all their search engines and literature that I do not use. > > On another note, on the chart that Tisha posted, anyone notice how the A ring for the “female” compounds are all conjugated where as the “male” ones are not? So how is it that women are insane? 😛 Or it can work the other way, it explain why women are more stable and men are so dumb. xD Hi Zeph, The purpose is that we’ve all been curious about what methoxyest is. Back on the forum someone said it was a female hormone that had been chemically modified to be a masculine form. I looked at it and didn’t think that was true. I really wanted to know what this was… so I did some digging. The conjugated ring in the estrogen molecules is what makes them an estrogen, nothing more. You can’t really take something like this and attribute a whole set of personality characteristics to it. Well, some you can, like emotionalism and tenderness, and fat pad deposits… those are activated by certain types of estrogen. Estrogen is just a hormone with a very specific role to play in gene activation and expression. Form follows function. If Estrogen didn’t have that conjugated ring it would not be an estrogen and would have no estrogenic properties. Diane ---
**Author:** ![zeph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/85e7bf/32.png) [@zeph](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/zeph)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/can-someone-identify-this-molecule-is-it-meo-est/30316/23 "2009-07-18T16:44:53Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > Hi Zeph, > > The conjugated ring in the estrogen molecules is what makes them an estrogen, nothing more. You can’t really take something like this and attribute a whole set of personality characteristics to it. Well, some you can, like emotionalism and tenderness, and fat pad deposits… those are activated by certain types of estrogen. > > Diane err, I meant that as a joke. Wasn’t supposed to be serious for anyone who got that. xD The whole conjugation thing making it a very stable structure kinda thing. ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/can-someone-identify-this-molecule-is-it-meo-est/30316/24 "2009-07-18T17:08:59Z")
> [@zeph](#): > > err, I meant that as a joke. Wasn’t supposed to be serious for anyone who got that. xD > The whole conjugation thing making it a very stable structure kinda thing. I figured it was a joke… I just wanted to respond so no one would get the wrong idea from your joke. I was amused by it, though. So, what is the 3-D structure of this ring, though, Zeph? If you can tell me that and satisfy that curiosity, that really will put a smile on my face! Diane ---
**Author:** ![zeph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/85e7bf/32.png) [@zeph](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/zeph)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/can-someone-identify-this-molecule-is-it-meo-est/30316/25 "2009-07-18T19:42:08Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > I figured it was a joke… I just wanted to respond so no one would get the wrong idea from your joke. I was amused by it, though. > > So, what is the 3-D structure of this ring, though, Zeph? If you can tell me that and satisfy that curiosity, that really will put a smile on my face! > > Diane Oh, that’s not hard for me to do. I just have no way of putting into visual form for you. I’ll try and see if I can get some models from a friend for you and take a picture of it. /edit Actually, I found a free software program that SHOULD let me draw it out for you on my computer. If that works I’ll make it and post it up. If that doesn’t work, I’ll go to the lab and they have software for that. Either way, you’ll have it by Monday at the latest (I hope!) ---
**Author:** ![zeph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/85e7bf/32.png) [@zeph](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/zeph)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/can-someone-identify-this-molecule-is-it-meo-est/30316/26 "2009-07-18T21:22:07Z")
![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/pheromonetalk/original/2X/4/4f005ed7eb66b5c024e18de52d81288ce7eb708a.png) Ugh thats what it looks like, but its not what it actually looks like. The A ring (the one with the 3 yellow bonds) is supposed to be COMPLETELY flat but it displays it as a regular cyclohexane instead of a benzene ring. Also the carbon leading to the C ring with the double bond is also flat, the carbon connecting it is SP2 and so is the one with the double bond so it is trigonal planar and flat. You can’t really see the 5th carbon in the cyclopentane, the one connecting to the oxygen. You’ll just have to be satisfied with this for now. I believe the one in the lab can draw up accurate molecules based on their bonds to give an accurate 3D molecule including geometry. Maybe this program can, but I’m new to it and have yet to figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/can-someone-identify-this-molecule-is-it-meo-est/30316/27 "2009-07-19T01:15:05Z")
> [@zeph](#): > > [http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/chaoszephyr/meo.png](http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/chaoszephyr/meo.png) > > Ugh thats what it looks like, but its not what it actually looks like. > > The A ring (the one with the 3 yellow bonds) is supposed to be COMPLETELY flat but it displays it as a regular cyclohexane instead of a benzene ring. Also the carbon leading to the C ring with the double bond is also flat, the carbon connecting it is SP2 and so is the one with the double bond so it is trigonal planar and flat. You can’t really see the 5th carbon in the cyclopentane, the one connecting to the oxygen. > > You’ll just have to be satisfied with this for now. I believe the one in the lab can draw up accurate molecules based on their bonds to give an accurate 3D molecule including geometry. Maybe this program can, but I’m new to it and have yet to figure it out. Actually, I think that because the A ring is sort of half way between a cyclo-pentane and a benzene it won’t be completely flat. The double bonds should be a little tighter than the single bonds, so you’re going to see a little bit of torque, though you won’t see as much above and below the plane action like you’d see with all single bonds, and probably little or none of the flexing like you would see with true benezene-type double bonded ring. Anyway, thank you for coming up with this. I love you for your effort even if you can’t make it more clear. It still helps me to visualize it. Diane ---
**Author:** ![zeph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/85e7bf/32.png) [@zeph](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/zeph)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 6:26am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/can-someone-identify-this-molecule-is-it-meo-est/30316/28 "2009-07-19T06:26:20Z")
Benzene is an aromatic compound. In order for a compound to be considered aromatic it must: 1. be cyclic 2. be continuous 3. be planar 4. have a huckel number of n + 2 There are a few exceptions to the rule. Some large cyclic carbons that would normally have 2 more p,i electrons to make it an anti-aromatic compound, actually have the p,i bond isolated in the inner structure of the ring making it an aromatic compound. Any carbon with a SP2 orbital is also planar as it tries to spread out as much as possible. Even though those double bonds are evenly spread out, those bonds are more like 1.5 bonds spread evenly. A benzene ring is also represented by a hexagon with a circle in it to represent the spread of bonds. I have a good ochem professor, she beats the information into me. -\_- ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 8:40am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/can-someone-identify-this-molecule-is-it-meo-est/30316/29 "2009-07-19T08:40:42Z")
> [@zeph](#): > > Benzene is an aromatic compound. In order for a compound to be considered aromatic it must: > > 1. be cyclic > 2. be continuous > 3. be planar > 4. have a huckel number of n + 2 > There are a few exceptions to the rule. Some large cyclic carbons that would normally have 2 more pi electrons to make it an anti-aromatic compound, actually have the pi bond isolated in the inner structure of the ring making it an aromatic compound. > > Any carbon with a SP2 orbital is also planar as it tries to spread out as much as possible. > > Even though those double bonds are evenly spread out, those bonds are more like 1.5 bonds spread evenly. A benzene ring is also represented by a hexagon with a circle in it to represent the spread of bonds. > > I have a good ochem professor, she beats the information into me. -\_- Yup. Thanks for the clarification. A benzene is kinetically energetic. But they have really low activation energy, and so are easily attacked by electron deficient groups. By having the oxygen attached to the ring in this molecule, it actually stabilizes it somewhat, since the Oxygen is such a slut for electrons and pulls the electron cloud towards it. That makes the ring much less likely to be attacked by electron deficient molecules and groups, and have a much higher energy of activation. Just having another carbon attached at that same site wouldn’t be protective, since carbon is not much of a slut for electrons, and so doesn’t modify the benezene characteristic much. That’s my understanding of it anyway. If this is incorrect, please correct me. Diane ---
**Author:** ![zeph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/85e7bf/32.png) [@zeph](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/zeph)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/can-someone-identify-this-molecule-is-it-meo-est/30316/30 "2009-07-19T16:52:11Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > Yup. Thanks for the clarification. > > **A benzene is kinetically energetic. But they have really low activation energy, and so are easily attacked by electron deficient groups.** > > **By having the oxygen attached to the ring in this molecule, it actually stabilizes it somewhat, since the Oxygen is such a slut for electrons** and pulls the electron cloud towards it. That makes the ring much less likely to be attacked by electron deficient molecules and groups, and have a much higher energy of activation. > > Just having another carbon attached at that same site wouldn’t be protective, since carbon is not much of a slut for electrons, and so doesn’t modify the benezene characteristic much. > > That’s my understanding of it anyway. If this is incorrect, please correct me. > > Diane I don’t know if benzes follows more of a kinetic reaction or not. But yes, kinetic reactions have lower activation energies and generally form a less stable structure vs the thermo reaction. Oh god how oxygens are electron whores. Paris Hilton of sluts. Nitrogen comes a close second. 😉 As for protection, I’ve found out that chemists really like to tell you certain rules (like how -OH is NEVER a leaving group) and later tell you “oh, those rules, were basic rules, here are the 3 or so exceptions” or you can always modify something that isn’t a leaving group into something that IS a leaving group. If you really wanted to remove a functional group really badly, someone will know of a way. It’s how nobel prize winners are born. The only people to discover a way to create C-C bonds are ALL nobel prize winners. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/can-someone-identify-this-molecule-is-it-meo-est/30316.md?page=1)