# Common reasons newbies think pheromones don't work: too much and too many **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [June 13, 2010, 6:29am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/common-reasons-newbies-think-pheromones-dont-work-too-much-and-too-many/39279 "2010-06-13T06:29:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RADMAN513](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/radman513/32/364_2.png) [@RADMAN513](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RADMAN513)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 6:29am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/common-reasons-newbies-think-pheromones-dont-work-too-much-and-too-many/39279/1 "2010-06-13T06:29:19Z")
OK well I’m sure that got some peoples attention. The fact is these are probably the most common statement/questions posted by newbies. And in reading a lot of them I’m noticing common reasons for the problem and thus the dismissal of mones as snake oil. Reason number 1…too much. Guys post “I tried 8 sprays of Heavy Ammo and got zilch, zip, nada” Find and follow Steves guide for finding your sweet spot with each product one at a time. one spray, even two might be too little, five sprays way too much, but three or four sprays could be just right, you have to find the magic number for each product. Reason number 2…too many, guys pherobomb and try a mix of everything but the kitchen sink and assume since they tried the entire line all at once that it means mones are useless. Thing is try throwing everything from your refrigerator into a pot along with equal portions of every spice in your spice rack or cupboard…how good do you think that’s gonna taste? Actually cooking is a pretty good analogy. You want to look at your main consumer line products as entre’s and side dishes, going fairly heavy 2-3 doses with your main dish, then lighter 1-2 doses on all your side dishes. then maybe a putative or two for seasoning…that’s it and even then you don’t want to start trying combo’s until you tested the mainline products as stand alones. And finally reason number 3…they haven’t clue one what the hell to be looking for. Blame Axe commercials, letters to Penthouse, Oceans 13, but a lot of guys buy these things expecting women to suddenly stop acting like women and start being as sexually aggressive a drunken frat boy. A314 in particular I’ve seen people post that they got no results after only a couple of days of use, which is sad since it’s my favorite product by far and yet manages to be the most powerful yet subtle at the same time. But guys that have little or no experience tend to have very unrealistic expectations, so much so that they can be getting great hits and not even know it. So to that end I’m going to post this handy dandy little list of possible hit types to look for. **Respect Hits: Most common with Rone products like A314, IG and Ammo.** Your opinion, watch for increases in how many people ask what you think about something and how often compared to when you weren’t wearing…also look for people that normally wouldn’t give two shits what you think to gradually begin asking. Submissive postures, watch for people to keep arms length from you and avert their eyes when talking to you. Attention, watch for them to MAINTAIN eye contact when you’re the one talking You have the floor, make a note of how often people will burst in and interrupt you when you speak, then make a note of how often it happens or or decreased since wearing Tooling/shit testing, this could go either way, you may experience a sudden decrease in how often people tease you, either playfully or even with malicious intent, however you could also experience a short term increase since people…women in particular test you to make sure you’re as alpha as you seem. Voluntary compliance, watch for more people to offer help or assistance more often. At work I’m not a manager yet I have 5 girls that will ask at least once or twice a day “is there anything you’d like me to work on?” or “do you need me to help with any projects?” Approval seeking, this is similar to valuing your opinion, but where your opinions value is more functionally related “What do you think we should do to increase our sales this quarter?” Approval seeking is more related to personal validation…this might sometimes come across as showing off or gloating, the fact is it means they hold you in high enough regard that telling a woman her dress looks nice or a guy that the new car he got makes them feel special, watch for attempts to fish these kinds of compliments from you. Increased responsibility, Now I’m not sure if this is common for everyone but at the office I work at there’s the doctor, a lab technician and me…and then 20 women. A while back my stress level went up somewhat as I became the go to guy whenever there was a problem, and there seemed to be more problems than usual. I was resistant and would get angry then I realized it all started after I started using A314, after looking more closely at the situation, it seemed like with the strong A314 signal I was wearing, the women seemed to become unwilling to make their own decisions. They couldn’t or wouldn’t make a move without my approval or say so…and they seemed to resent me when I was resenting them not thinking for themselves. Now that I know what’s actually going on I’ve accepted this as part of the job that comes from being alpha (it really is more of a job than a treat most days) and the more I tell the girls (including the manager who is also female) what to do, the better their moods seem to be and the more morale in the office has picked up. VIP Upgrades, here’s an example…went to a bar and grill a few of weeks into my A314 usage for dinner and to enjoy a couple of drinks while watching a game. There was a perfectly good table available but as the hostess walked us to the table she looked at the tv, then at me and called for the busboy to clean a different table, one dead center in front of the screen, then called over the girl that would be our server and introduced her to us. Now to most of the more experienced phero and especially A314 users here that’s a pretty obvious and blatant respect hit but I have no doubt that some newbie would be so much on autopilot that he’d simply dismiss it as the hostess doing her job…I rarely if ever see them rush a table cleaning when another perfectly good table is available and waiting, that was a respect hit. **Social Hits most often seen with Nols like in Instant Openness and Instant Honesty, Also seen with TAA/Instant Shine** Frequency of communication, how many people initiate conversations with you and how often How long do typical conversations with certain people usually last. you’ll probably find they last longer as people might grasp at straws just to keep the conversation going. Out of character talking, look for people that might normally be a little on the quiet side to feel a bit more comfortable talking to you. Intensity of conversation, what kind of information is volunteered or just brought up out of the blue? Are people telling you things about their families, they’re hopes and long term goals, maybe embarrassing things about their past? Moreso with IH than with others but it can still happen with IO since it still has some betanol in it Overall mood, especially with IO and Shine, as both are known to have mood elevating effects. don’t expect people to jump on on the tables and start dancing but watch for people to smile bigger, and more often around you. Also with instant shine, one of it’s main attributes at least from my own experiences is that it seems to direct your other products into the postive directions of their properties. IE the dominance of A314 becomes more of a charismatic leadership vibe than a domineering bully vibe, IO making people more talkative becomes people wanting to talk to you because you’re a cool likable guy. So after you get a sense of other mones and how they work try them again with a spray or two of shine and see how it enhances the effect. Which brings us to the type of hits most new phero users actually start using mones for in the first place. **Attraction hits: Most common with None, products like Ammo, and Tuth but honestly attraction can come from almost any product especially Rone products that create a perception of high status and value.** This is the one where most guys are the most clueless, even before I started using mones I would see guys get great attraction signals or green lights from girls but because women are subtle and guys don’t register anything short of her smacking upside the head and holding up a sign that says “I want it and I want YOU to give it to me” . Thing is women are more subtle and it takes social intelligence and perception to spot and interpret signs of attraction. Wear an attraction based product like Ammo, TuTH, MX301, or even rone based products like IG or A314 and look Is she playing with her hair? Women do this all the time anyway but if she’s doing it and subconsciously pointing the tips of her hair at you it’s a possible sign (possible because the condition of hair can be an indicator of her health) Exposing her arms. wrists, did she pull her sleeves up and lay her arms out in front of her across the table or bar? Shoulders or tits, as in what’s pointing at you, if she’s facing you directly you have her attention and interest solid, if she’s turned slightly to the side she’s waiting for you to leave. Is she leaning forward when you talk or leaning back, if she’s leaning forward then she perceives you and what you have to say as having value Watch her pupils, this is the much sought after DIHL human eyes widen to take in more info about what we see, both eyelids and pupils, if she gets wide eyed and her pupils dilate it means you pretty much have her enthralled with you. Rare but it happens. Smiles, clean white teeth not only convey that the person is enjoying themselves at the moment, but it’s displaying a sign of health and breeding fitness (youth since younger people would have more and healthier teeth than older ones in prehistoric past) Laughing, if everything you say suddenly becomes the funniest stuff in the world this is a HUGE sign. I’ll actually throw a semi lame joke in to test the waters. If I get a light chuckle no big deal but if she’s cracking up over a joke that was so/so at best that means she’s very interested. Kino, women do not initiate touch with men they don’t know. Sure a woman might give a platonic hug to a longtime guy friend, or shake a guys hand if he’s introduced by somebody she knows and she feels safe but that’s it. Don’t expect her to throw a pass at you like in some bad porno movie, but watch her to playfully punch you, or rest her hand on your arm to emphasize a point when she’s talking, if she leans in to hear you better while you’re talking and she rests her hand on your leg for support that also counts. Guys miss this because it seems innocent but women are very self conscious about giving men the wrong impression as it can cause problems later, so if she feels comfortable breaking into your personal space and touching you then that’s a hit. Some might initiate but more often then not YOU’ll have to initiate and let her reciprocate. If you have the right products and give them enough time to sink in and effect her then she more often than not will show signs of attraction. This doesn’t mean you can fall back into whatever bad habits you had before might have kept you from the girl, one wrong sentance, fail a shit test or just fail to show enough balls to escalate the interaction and attraction can be gone and she’ll actually become frustrated at you for wasting her time and not being a go getter like she was hoping you’d be. So for newbies, learn not only to look for and interpret the signs of valid hits, but also how to capitalize on them because the mones will only take you so far. If you spray Ammo and go to a club but are standing in a corner holding your drink and just people watching the mones didn’t fail, YOU did. And if a girl is showing signs of attraction but you aren’t escalating or trying to build on it and she gets bored and leaves, again, the mones worked fine, you just didn’t take advantage of the opportunity they gave you. ---
**Author:** ![strato](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/strato/32/2461_2.png) [@strato](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/strato)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 7:49am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/common-reasons-newbies-think-pheromones-dont-work-too-much-and-too-many/39279/2 "2010-06-13T07:49:30Z")
Great post, makes me want to go out immediately. Should a newbie start with one product only? I’ve got all the standard products and usually apply some A314/IJ/TUTH/AMMO and IS/IH/IO/CTTM2 pretty randomly, I either improvise or try other people’s mixes. There are so any so many possible combinations. It would takes ages to find what’s right for me I guess, especially because I don’t go out that much. ---
**Author:** ![fzt75](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/fzt75/32/1168_2.png) [@fzt75](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/fzt75)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 11:06am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/common-reasons-newbies-think-pheromones-dont-work-too-much-and-too-many/39279/3 "2010-06-13T11:06:04Z")
Radman, Thanks for such a valuable post. I only wore A314 once, actually that was MX347, in order to meet one of my clients (I am selling financial investments), and it was the 3rd time that I was meeting him. He is the kind of guy that would take a lot of time to decide about anything, even for small investments, asking a quote, and then another quote with different parameters, etc… The last time, he even forgot about the appointment, so I was a little bit upset about his lack of interest, and ready to give up if he doesn’t make a clear decision about what he wants to do. So, I decided to test him with A314 (MX347) and I noticed the signs that you are describing : he was listening much more, showing that he was valuing my opinion, asking me what he should do…So I told him that he should go for a specific investment and he immediately agreed…and the best part is that his wife was keeping calling him over the phone, and he couldn’t tell me that he should go or take the initiative to tell me the meeting is over…I even had to tell him that he should answer (cause the ring was disturbing me !) After a while, I had to tell me that he should go and have a rest, cause he looks a little bit tired ! It’s very unusual in this business, at least for me ! Now, the question is : can he change his mind once he is not in touch with the androstenone ? Is his perception about me being a valuable advisor that he should listen to, going to change once he gets home ? I remember the first time I met him, he asked me about my age, and than he told me that I look much younger than my real age (which is not good for my business), hence the A314 testing ! ---
**Author:** ![RADMAN513](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/radman513/32/364_2.png) [@RADMAN513](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RADMAN513)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/common-reasons-newbies-think-pheromones-dont-work-too-much-and-too-many/39279/4 "2010-06-13T14:42:59Z")
> [@strato](#): > > Great post, makes me want to go out immediately. > > Should a newbie start with one product only? I’ve got all the standard products and usually apply some A314/IJ/TUTH/AMMO and IS/IH/IO/CTTM2 pretty randomly, I either improvise or try other people’s mixes. There are so any so many possible combinations. It would takes ages to find what’s right for me I guess, especially because I don’t go out that much. Everyone starting off seems to go crazy and OD’s/Pherobombs, it’s just a side effect of enthusiasm. I did it myself to a degree. Now even though I’m more experienced I’ve been testing products as stand alone’s. I truly think that following Steve’s instructions for finding your sweet spot is the best way to gauge each individual product and what it does/doesn’t do. You’ll be able to figure out if A314 is too strong and find you prefere IG, you may find that TuTH scares away girls your age but attracts cougars and you’ll get a sense of how much of each product is ideal. Way I see it if you follow Steves instructions by starting at a single spray a day for three days, take two days off, then two sprays a day for three days etc taking notes until you find the dose that gives you the best most obvious and consistent results…as well as what does 180’s and goes to no results or even negative results you’ll be able to use your product long term with much more success. if you do this with to-go bottles of the whole consumer line plus a couple of the more popular experimentals it would take about 5-6 months. But considering you’re a young guy, at the end of 6 months you’ll know exactly what to expect from each product and will be able to use that as a good starting point for understanding mixes. I have a post around here explaining the order that I think a person should use if they truly want to get a handle on mones and how they work. > [@fzt75](#): > > Radman, > > Thanks for such a valuable post. > > I only wore A314 once, actually that was MX347, in order to meet one of my clients (I am selling financial investments), and it was the 3rd time that I was meeting him. > He is the kind of guy that would take a lot of time to decide about anything, even for small investments, asking a quote, and then another quote with different parameters, etc… > > The last time, he even forgot about the appointment, so I was a little bit upset about his lack of interest, and ready to give up if he doesn’t make a clear decision about what he wants to do. > > So, I decided to test him with A314 (MX347) and I noticed the signs that you are describing : he was listening much more, showing that he was valuing my opinion, asking me what he should do…So I told him that he should go for a specific investment and he immediately agreed…and the best part is that his wife was keeping calling him over the phone, and he couldn’t tell me that he should go or take the initiative to tell me the meeting is over…I even had to tell him that he should answer (cause the ring was disturbing me !) After a while, I had to tell me that he should go and have a rest, cause he looks a little bit tired ! It’s very unusual in this business, at least for me ! > > Now, the question is : can he change his mind once he is not in touch with the androstenone ? Is his perception about me being a valuable advisor that he should listen to, going to change once he gets home ? I remember the first time I met him, he asked me about my age, and than he told me that I look much younger than my real age (which is not good for my business), hence the A314 testing ! Impressions once they’re made are pretty much there until something is done to change it. If you use A314/MX347 it’s made an impression on him and has placed you in a certain box basically. Now if you stop wearing for an extended period he might gradually start to get a sense that you’re not who he thought you were but I’m not sure about that. I will say that one time I went mone free for a couple of days and one of the girls I work with and was getting some strong IOI’s from had a temporary turn around and went very hostile and bitchy on me. This was not old pre mone behavior so I suspect that she was becoming interested when I was on A314 and when I suddenly stopped she sensed a weakness for lack of a better term with my signal gone. I believe that since she was interested based on the dominance conveyed by the A314 which she no longer felt she was shit testing me to see if it the dominance was legit or just her imagination. ---
**Author:** ![P51Mustang](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/p51mustang/32/1266_2.png) [@P51Mustang](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/P51Mustang)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/common-reasons-newbies-think-pheromones-dont-work-too-much-and-too-many/39279/5 "2010-06-13T20:21:10Z")
> [@fzt75](#): > > Radman, > > Thanks for such a valuable post. > > I only wore A314 once, actually that was MX347, in order to meet one of my clients (I am selling financial investments), and it was the 3rd time that I was meeting him. > He is the kind of guy that would take a lot of time to decide about anything, even for small investments, asking a quote, and then another quote with different parameters, etc… > > The last time, he even forgot about the appointment, so I was a little bit upset about his lack of interest, and ready to give up if he doesn’t make a clear decision about what he wants to do. > > So, I decided to test him with A314 (MX347) and I noticed the signs that you are describing : he was listening much more, showing that he was valuing my opinion, asking me what he should do…So I told him that he should go for a specific investment and he immediately agreed…and the best part is that his wife was keeping calling him over the phone, and he couldn’t tell me that he should go or take the initiative to tell me the meeting is over…I even had to tell him that he should answer (cause the ring was disturbing me !) After a while, I had to tell me that he should go and have a rest, cause he looks a little bit tired ! It’s very unusual in this business, at least for me ! > > Now, the question is : can he change his mind once he is not in touch with the androstenone ? Is his perception about me being a valuable advisor that he should listen to, going to change once he gets home ? I remember the first time I met him, he asked me about my age, and than he told me that I look much younger than my real age (which is not good for my business), hence the A314 testing ! I can tell you that mones augment your skill set in closing deals in financial investments. I’ve been doing it for a little over three years now. Being alpha, and closing business isn’t directly correlated to how that signature is produced. In this line of work, clients have to TRUST and respect you (Look at the name of A314). However if you even project incongruency on your sales pitch, the deal is off in his head. You already have a strike against you in looking young. Most people will think you’re just too inexperienced. Secondly, if it’s taking you three appointments to close a deal, you’re either selling him on the investment, and that you’re trying to probably make a need fit the investment, and not the other way around. A314 is gradual, while there is a spray form, its not as consistent as the oil version in terms of diffusion. You also didn’t wear it in enough of the times since you’ve met him. The [pheromone](https://pheromonelabs.com/) is also Androsterone, not Androstenone. Big mistake if you’re in a business environment and you use -none instead of -erone. Also, when people change their minds about an investment, 9/10 times its because it wouldn’t fit for their financial goals. “Making more money” is not a valid enough reason for them to want to keep it. I always tell new guys that I train that you must always use the investments for its intended purpose. When oil comes in, use it EVERYDAY, I’ve enjoyed tremendous success since I’ve been wearing A314, its not that I doubled my sales (sometimes I do), it helped me close on some deals that were a bit harder. If you look young, you might want to try out some IG with IS, that might help you as well. Always, good luck, its a tough environment right now, and keep trugging along. ---
**Author:** ![unknown0001](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/unknown0001/32/559_2.png) [@unknown0001](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/unknown0001)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/common-reasons-newbies-think-pheromones-dont-work-too-much-and-too-many/39279/6 "2010-06-13T20:52:58Z")
Fantastic post RADMAN, but I still beg of you…is that you in that photo? and who is that women you’re ehem…hugging? ---
**Author:** ![P51Mustang](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/p51mustang/32/1266_2.png) [@P51Mustang](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/P51Mustang)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/common-reasons-newbies-think-pheromones-dont-work-too-much-and-too-many/39279/7 "2010-06-13T20:53:38Z")
A pornstar (and I’m not joking) lol ---
**Author:** ![RADMAN513](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/radman513/32/364_2.png) [@RADMAN513](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RADMAN513)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 5:26am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/common-reasons-newbies-think-pheromones-dont-work-too-much-and-too-many/39279/8 "2010-06-14T05:26:57Z")
> [@happytappin](#): > > Fantastic post RADMAN, but I still beg of you…is that you in that photo? and who is that women you’re ehem…hugging? Dude I replied to that. It’s Lisa Lipps and yeah like P51Mustang said she’s a fine actress of award winning caliber.