# Complicated relationship questions, need help to try and salvage. **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Journals\ **Created:** [February 9, 2009, 4:52am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/complicated-relationship-questions-need-help-to-try-and-salvage/25877 "2009-02-09T04:52:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![badbobbyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@badbobbyj](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/badbobbyj)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 4:52am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/complicated-relationship-questions-need-help-to-try-and-salvage/25877/1 "2009-02-09T04:52:29Z")
Hi guys sorry for the long read (this is a really condensed version believe it or not) it has been heavily sanitized to protect myself and her and I am posting it here as this forum is apparently not indexed by Google. Ok so I’ve needed somewhere/somehow to get this off my chest and get some advice both on whether or not I have “read” the situation correctly, what went wrong and what I can do to get things going again the next time I see this gal. There is some complications to this that puts me on some shaky ground and I am not sure how far I want to take this because of it. That said I’d prefer not to argue or debate over her being married and myself being married (which is the complication although my marriage is hard to explain and more of a business arrangement). I am posting this in the journal section as it was indicated to me that this forum is visible only to registered users and not indexed by google. I am sanitizing this, changing names etc to protect myself and the situation as much as possible but to make sense I need to leave enough details in that someone who knows me or her would be able to identify us. For some background I am in my early 40’s, she is 4 years younger. 18 years ago I was traveling and wound up getting stuck for a week on a tropical (yet non tourist destination) for a week in the Caribbean. The island had a small population and no real tourism facilities. She happened to be there on vacation with her parents. Basically short story was we were the only Americans on the island in our basic age group, both young and attractive and well let your imaginations do the rest! We left on the same flight to an intermediate destination, said our goodbyes and each flew home from there. We live(d) about 1800 miles apart. Not long after returning home I received a long (8 page) love letter, which I thought was great as even though it was only a week, we really REALLY hit it off well. My response was to have 5 dozen roses delivered. Her mom called me shortly after they were delivered to tell me how great they were and she would have her call me when she got home. A week later still hadn’t heard from her so I called, her dad answered and said she did not want to talk to me and never would. That was the last I heard until last year. I received an email a little over a year ago, was afraid to open it as I was afraid it was one of those “I have something to tell you….. you have a child” sort of emails. Thankfully it wasn’t. We purely by coincidence (not that I believe in coincidences) happen to be in the same industry and I am well known and a bit of a regional celebrity because of my role in this industry and she came across an interview with me and googled me and sent the email. At first it was just a few emails catching up (man I missed her) and gradually became more and more. Two months after hearing from her the first time it had become once or twice a week phone calls, twenty or so emails a day, dozens of text messages every week sometimes 100 in a single night. Most of it benign but with some light flirting. Then somewhere along the line she had mentioned she really didn’t remember much of that first week together as the result of some memory loss from a car accident a few years later and asked me to fill in the details of the week. I did with a somewhat lengthy email that ended with the “never heard from you after the flowers”. Didn’t hear from her all day after that and though crap maybe that was too much. But then late that evening called me to discuss (apparently after her husband went to bed) and first words out of her mouth were “What flowers, I never ever got any flowers from you?”. Turns out mom received them from the floral delivery dude and tossed them in the trash, dad intercepted my call a week later and told me never to call again as they didn’t want their daughter on the next plane to my town. This really threw me for a loop, to think my whole life MAY have been so different had that one event gone as planned. She seemed to take it hard as well but after a day or so quickly didn’t want to talk about it any more (but did confess to getting in a huge fight with her mom about it). But other than that conversations continued, same light flirting (sometimes even pushing that a bit such as sharing certain fetishes and such). Basically if I was her husband I would have been pissed had I read many of the emails, yet most were perfectly appropriate an really never crossed the line, just pushed it to its limit. She happens to live about an hour away from a city I frequent on business and on my next trip after reconnecting with her we agreed to meet. About a week before she called me and we had a long talk, she was telling me she had driven to the city to shop for some new clothes so that she looked great when I saw her etc. My wife was accompanying me on this trip, and we made plans to meet (all four of us) for dinner one night although she had invited me to lunch the day before (just the two of us). At this point both of us were saying things like “ happily married not gonna mess it up” and then the flirting. I was really playing it close, adamant to her that I would never make that mistake. She was like saying go with one hand and stop with the other, very mixed signals. I confided in a close lifelong friend (who happened to be a woman) and she was like “HELLOOOO” and I’m like no I don’t think so, I think she is just a small town girl who is maybe a little bored and a little excited to catch up. My friend was like “uhh yah right, your playing with fire”. So she suggests I setup a little test, and tell her I am getting there a day ahead of my wife and see what she does with that. Well sure enough the day before I get a text message asking how my flight was and saying “your wife is coming tomorrow right?” I couldn’t play it out as I felt bad and said I got tied up at work and would be there tomorrow on the same flight as my wife. Now she didn’t let the test pass unnoticed, but didn’t show up at the hotel in nothing but a trenchcoat either (not that she is that type of gal). I never gave her an answer about lunch as I wasn’t sure my wife would be comfortable with it. But then that day my wife said go ahead and go surprise her. So we hadn’t discussed it for weeks (lunch that is) and I never told her I was coming, but then she calls me and asks if I made it to xxxxxxx yet. Yeah as a matter of fact almost there. She gets all excited and then texts me a few minutes later saying she got called into a meeting and can’t do lunch but to go grab some and she’ll call when she is done. I’m like okay.. So I wander around and grab some lunch and then she texts saying she is back and I head over. Well as I am waiting for her I learn from the receptionist that she didn’t have a lunch meeting but instead went home to change clothes as Fridays were casual and she was just in jeans. She comes out in this sexy little summer dress that should have got her sent home from work, hair perfect, fresh makeup, nails just done etc.. We hug and head to her office. Now this all happened before I saw the comprehensive list of IOI’s in that sticky, but as I remember the events of that day and compare to the list.. well wow!. We sit down in her office and the first thing she does is take her wedding ring off and drops it in her drawer and then puts some lotion on, but then never puts the ring back on while I am there. She then adjusts her dress around her legs (and true to the covering up to show something in the IOI thread) she winds up giving a clear and somewhat obvious view all the way up her dress to her waist as she adjusted it. She is trying hard to make constant eye contact and starts leaning in, letting her dress hang open (again somewhat obviously). Finally we go to leave and this old friend of mine starts playing in my head. As she said I would know (I don’t know if this is correct or not, so I would love a womans input here) based on a few things here as I depart. If she walks me to her office door or to the lobby then likely nothing, but if she walks you to the car and leaves the building then there is no doubt, as she wouldn’t do that unless she was looking for an opening. Well sure enough she walks me outside to my rental car the whole time giggling like a teenager and constantly touching me totally out of context (like at one point reaching out and grabbing my elbow with her hand and holding it for a few moments) fixing my collar etc. I had kept things that day pretty straight up, but then as I was about to leave told her how she looked even more beautiful than she had when we first met, she blushed and giggled and gave me this look like “well kiss me you fool” but I choked, still not sure I was reading it right (and in part not wanting to interfere in her marriage). So I turned and walked to the car and said goodbye. She texts me a dozen times or so as I drive back to the hotel an hour away and then the next day texts me all day long before the four of us go to dinner to tell me what she is wearing and how nervous she is to meet my wife (why is she nervous about that?). We then met for dinner. Actually had a good time, everyone played nice together. Finally around midnight they wander back home. Next morning more texts, and then the wife and I headed home. More texts asking how my flight was (like the moment we landed) and this continued for a week or two. And then somewhere along the line a discussion came up about infidelity (nothing too serious and not applicable to our situation just in general) and I made a comment to the effect of “it would take a pretty damn amazing woman to make me consider it” now I consider her a pretty damned amazing woman but I don’t know that she knows that. Although I would like to think that most women are more aware of us men and our thoughts than we are with them. I didn’t hear for her for weeks after that (we hadn’t gone a single day with no contact for the preceding 4 months). Finally I email and get no reply. So I send flowers (something cute but not really romantic). She is ECSTATIC and is texting and emailing non stop for hours and then the next day tells me the flowers were appreciated but not to do that again as it caused problems at work. Well no one would say anything unless she went around making a production about it. Things were more social after that but nothing at all like before the break in communication. This pattern continues with just occasioanal emails for the next several months. During this time I feel totally heartbroken but have to hide it and realized just how much she meant to me and how much more I want her to mean to me. Fortunately there are no kids involved on either side. She claims her marriage is a happy one, but then vents about her husband. But since last summer we have not talked on the phone at all, and maybe a text or two or an occasional email every few weeks or so. I tried to talk to her and even tried to ask what happened to cause such an abrupt change and her response was “nothing, just busy at work” yeah right? Anyhow, she did call about 2 months ago and needed a favor, something only I could pull off and I did, she was quite grateful and I suggested that next time I was down that way that she owed me a cup of coffee and she responded with nope, dinner and its on me. Good sign I thought, but then things got a liitle quiet again. And then for her birthday I managed to get something for her that I can’t really disclose here as it would be a major giveaway but suffice to say its something every woman would want, few have and although it cost me nothing is absolutely priceless. Her response was pretty excited for a while and then quiet again. All of this took place before my knowledge and experimentation with the [pheromones](https://a314.com/). Now I have a trip down that way planned for April and we will likely meet for dinner or at least lunch or coffee. I don’t know if I will get another chance at anything or if she has already written me off (or that I am totally misreading this and there never was anything??) but I will only get one chance to get the right mix. So my questions are… Did I misread this or does it seem that she was sending some serious signals but keeping them subtle (as she was married and couldn’t risk much) or was I misreading and she is just a nice gal who is coming across wrong…. Did I screw up and imply she wasn’t amazing enough to fool around with.. and if so how do I fix that.. Did she have feelings and then second thoughts? Again how do I overcome that.. And only having one shot, what would be a good mix that would give me the best opportunity without risk of either stinking or OD’ing? My thought was a light dose of Ammo, some Openess and Honesty and some p83 to help uninhibit. I also though maybe mx292 (if it is released again before then). I want something with a sexual kick, but something that makes her feel special and happy to be around me. I apologize for the long read, it’s a complicated situation and this is a really condensed and sanitized version. ---
**Author:** ![jamesbonded](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jamesbonded/32/2090_2.png) [@jamesbonded](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jamesbonded)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 6:35am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/complicated-relationship-questions-need-help-to-try-and-salvage/25877/2 "2009-02-09T06:35:12Z")
Buddy, you are playing with fire. Do you still love your wife? Maybe she expected more response from you during your lunch together and maybe she was disappointed for not getting the response she wants. She is playing cold now as to control her feeling. Maybe she feel guilty to her husband and try to keep a distance. As for the pheromones suggestion, P83, AMMO, IH and IFM would be good. Just be sure of what you are doing. ---
**Author:** ![badbobbyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@badbobbyj](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/badbobbyj)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/complicated-relationship-questions-need-help-to-try-and-salvage/25877/3 "2009-02-09T17:07:28Z")
> [@jamesbonded](#): > > Buddy, you are playing with fire. Do you still love your wife? > > Maybe she expected more response from you during your lunch together and maybe she was disappointed for not getting the response she wants. She is playing cold now as to control her feeling. Maybe she feel guilty to her husband and try to keep a distance. > > As for the pheromones suggestion, P83, AMMO, IH and IFM would be good. > > Just be sure of what you are doing. Playing with fire? I’m not sure, I’m still not sure I even read it properly. She would make a point of telling me over and over again we are just friends (but why state the obvious?) Lots of suggestions of interest but the occasional splash of cold water as well. Do I love my wife? I’m not sure how to answer that. This gal would have been my first choice, reluctantly went back to an old gf and got married. At best we are friends and decent roomates, I know she has seen other men over the years and I think if I was involved with someone else she would be okay with it (we have seperate bedrooms and its been years since there was any intimacy). But I really don’t want to screw with the old flames marriage, but if its already over so to speak and she is just looking for a way out, that is different. To further complicate things I have had to go out of my way to “lower my status” so to speak. She knows who I am as I mentioned a bit of a celebrity within my industry but I have tried to hide my wealth as much as possible. I don’t want this to be about money. FWIW even after our goodbyes 18 years ago, not a day went by that I didnt think of her. She made a similar comment to me early on after reconnecting. Man life can get messy! ---
**Author:** ![jamesbonded](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jamesbonded/32/2090_2.png) [@jamesbonded](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jamesbonded)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/complicated-relationship-questions-need-help-to-try-and-salvage/25877/4 "2009-02-09T17:30:21Z")
> [@badbobbyj](#): > > Playing with fire? I’m not sure, I’m still not sure I even read it properly. She would make a point of telling me over and over again we are just friends (but why state the obvious?) Lots of suggestions of interest but the occasional splash of cold water as well. Do I love my wife? I’m not sure how to answer that. This gal would have been my first choice, reluctantly went back to an old gf and got married. At best we are friends and decent roomates, I know she has seen other men over the years and I think if I was involved with someone else she would be okay with it (we have seperate bedrooms and its been years since there was any intimacy). > > But I really don’t want to screw with the old flames marriage, but if its already over so to speak and she is just looking for a way out, that is different. To further complicate things I have had to go out of my way to “lower my status” so to speak. She knows who I am as I mentioned a bit of a celebrity within my industry but I have tried to hide my wealth as much as possible. I don’t want this to be about money. FWIW even after our goodbyes 18 years ago, not a day went by that I didnt think of her. She made a similar comment to me early on after reconnecting. > > Man life can get messy! Sorry if I have offended you in anyway. You did not mentioned about your relationship with your wife. Anyway good luck and wish things turn out good for you.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![badbobbyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@badbobbyj](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/badbobbyj)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/complicated-relationship-questions-need-help-to-try-and-salvage/25877/5 "2009-02-09T18:15:35Z")
> [@jamesbonded](#): > > Sorry if I have offended you in anyway. You did not mentioned about your relationship with your wife. > Anyway good luck and wish things turn out good for you.🙂 No offense at all… and I do realize this is more complicated than the norm.