# Confidence: you have to have it, and no one can give it to you **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [May 1, 2009, 1:33pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/confidence-you-have-to-have-it-and-no-one-can-give-it-to-you/28547 "2009-05-01T13:33:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![renny](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/renny/32/2104_2.png) [@renny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/renny)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/confidence-you-have-to-have-it-and-no-one-can-give-it-to-you/28547/21 "2009-05-02T18:40:14Z")
> [@river](#): > > Yeah, maybe he doesn’t need to know about the A314, huh? He doesn’t buy into the effectiveness of pheros anyways…of course, getting a chest/shoulder massage every morning may just change his mind! Yeah, just tell him it’s south american spirit oil, used by the Incas for years to bring out the “inner male spirit”. Make it FUN! ---
**Author:** ![river](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/river/32/934_2.png) [@river](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/river)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/confidence-you-have-to-have-it-and-no-one-can-give-it-to-you/28547/22 "2009-05-02T18:44:14Z")
> [@renny](#): > > Yeah, just tell him it’s south american spirit oil, used by the Incas for years to bring out the “inner male spirit”. Make it FUN! Well, I wouldn’t exactly be lying, now would I? LOL! Thanks Renny! ---
**Author:** ![TheAttractor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/theattractor/32/575_2.png) [@TheAttractor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/TheAttractor)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/confidence-you-have-to-have-it-and-no-one-can-give-it-to-you/28547/23 "2009-05-02T18:53:02Z")
> [@river](#): > > Thank you EVERYONE for all the advice, and believe me, I’ll be trying all of it, everything from backing off, to books, to A314… (do you think I should just leave this stuff “lying” around in hopes he’d notice and be interested rather than feeling like I’m pushing stuff onto him if I give it to him directly?) Like MuskCloud pointed out, leaving the book lying around is not a good idea. I recommend one of these methods. One, you can pick out and buy a book yourself, then give it to your husband when he’s free (watching the game doesn’t count as free). Two, read the book so that your husband can clearly see you reading it; most likely, he’ll ask you about it, in which case, you can break it to him that you’d want him to read it. In both cases, make sure the book has a masculine-sounding title, and doesn’t look like the cover of _Cosmo_. Possible things to look for: dark, earth-tone colors; references to business, sports, or the military; words like “win”, “achieve”, or “succeed”; clear, direct language; and male-oriented humor. Try looking in the business or communication sections, before going to psychology or self-improvement. Why all this? If the book is even remotely feminine, your husband will not want to go near it. Trust me, I’ve thought like a man my whole life, so I speak from experience. And whatever you do, do not, under any circumstances, use the phrase: “we need to talk”; it makes most men want to jump out the window. If you must, say “I need to talk to you” instead. It’s what male bosses say when they need to get a message across, and your husband will respond much better to the straightforward, business-like wording. ---
**Author:** ![river](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/river/32/934_2.png) [@river](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/river)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/confidence-you-have-to-have-it-and-no-one-can-give-it-to-you/28547/24 "2009-05-02T20:12:04Z")
> [@TheAttractor](#): > > Like MuskCloud pointed out, leaving the book lying around is not a good idea. I recommend one of these methods. One, you can pick out and buy a book yourself, then give it to your husband when he’s free (watching the game doesn’t count as free). Two, read the book so that your husband can clearly see you reading it; most likely, he’ll ask you about it, in which case, you can break it to him that you’d want him to read it. > > In both cases, make sure the book has a masculine-sounding title, and doesn’t look like the cover of _Cosmo_. Possible things to look for: dark, earth-tone colors; references to business, sports, or the military; words like “win”, “achieve”, or “succeed”; clear, direct language; and male-oriented humor. Try looking in the business or communication sections, before going to psychology or self-improvement. Why all this? If the book is even remotely feminine, your husband will not want to go near it. Ok…nothing w/ a pink cover…got it! 😉 Methinks a trip to Barnes & Nobel is in order… > [@TheAttractor](#): > > Trust me, I’ve thought like a man my whole life, so I speak from experience. And whatever you do, do not, under any circumstances, use the phrase: “we need to talk”; it makes most men want to jump out the window. If you must, say “I need to talk to you” instead. It’s what male bosses say when they need to get a message across, and your husband will respond much better to the straightforward, business-like wording. I confess…I’ve used the “we need to talk” and thought it was a good “team” type of lingo to use (so as to avoid sounding bitchy or bossy):o Good thing we live in a one-story house… I’ve always tried to not mince words and talk straightforward (I’m not into playing word games), but I’ll be thinking a little more carefully now just exactly which words I use. At the risk of saying something that’ll make you guys want to jump out the window: I think you all are “very sweet” for putting up with me invading your forum like this. Ok, you can gag now… XOXO 😉 ---
**Author:** ![OoohYahhh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/ooohyahhh/32/1274_2.png) [@OoohYahhh](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/OoohYahhh)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/confidence-you-have-to-have-it-and-no-one-can-give-it-to-you/28547/25 "2009-05-02T20:44:27Z")
EDIT: Saw the previous post. Unless he is a big reader, preferably like, psychology, self improvement, but anything would do, unless he is a big reader, the book probably won’t catch his interest. Tell him it’s a hawahian good luck charm. Besides, you could use a little good luck about now. Don’t even think about the threesome. It would be deadly right now. Tough love to guys is when a woman cuts off the sex until she gets what she wants. That won’t get you confidence. He’ll just wander off. The typical nice guy/weak man is always ready to serve to prove himself. You could let him be who he wants. Pull on those thigh high boots and make him serve. In some peverse sense, it gives submissives a sense of importance. Think leather. Think collar. Maybe even leash. I know you are a nice girl but you are more and more an alpha woman. There has got to be some devious, dominant imagination in there some where. I’m afraid I can’t post the links here. If you try it with a search you’ll be out in the wild country with out a map. Give him a try. See if he wants to play. If he does, I’ll get you a map so you can find your way around and stoke your imagination. If that’s the way it works, you could be the one wearing the A314 I really hope you find a way. Keep trying. OoohYahhh ---
**Author:** ![river](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/river/32/934_2.png) [@river](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/river)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/confidence-you-have-to-have-it-and-no-one-can-give-it-to-you/28547/26 "2009-05-02T21:04:43Z")
> [@OoohYahhh](#): > > Tell him it’s a hawahian good luck charm. Besides, you could use a little good luck about now. > > Don’t even think about the threesome. It would be deadly right now. > > Tough love to guys is when a woman cuts off the sex until she gets what she wants. That won’t get you confidence. He’ll just wander off. > > The typical nice guy/weak man is always ready to serve to prove himself. You could let him be who he wants. Pull on those thigh high boots and make him serve. In some peverse sense, it gives submissives a sense of importance. Think leather. Think collar. Maybe even leash. I know you are a nice girl but you are more and more an alpha woman. There has got to be some devious, dominant imagination in there some where. I’m afraid I can’t post the links here. If you try it with a search you’ll be out in the wild country with out a map. Give him a try. See if he wants to play. If he does, I’ll get you a map so you can find your way around and stoke your imagination. > > If that’s the way it works, you could be the one wearing the A314 > > I really hope you find a way. > > Keep trying. > > OoohYahhh I’m not really into the threesome thing anyways so… As for the other…I guess I’m just getting tired of being the dominant, “responsible” one and want him to step it up, so no “dominatrix” stuff for me for the moment…gotta be some other way… I think I’ll try the A314 first. XO OoohYahhh. ---
**Author:** ![OoohYahhh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/ooohyahhh/32/1274_2.png) [@OoohYahhh](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/OoohYahhh)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/confidence-you-have-to-have-it-and-no-one-can-give-it-to-you/28547/27 "2009-05-02T21:22:29Z")
I understand. Alot of people think they want a dominant / submissive relationship. And of course alot of them think they want to be the top. What very few people seem to realize is the huge resposibility that the dominant partner assumes. It’s a resposibiliy that goes way beyond leadership. (True leadership alone is enough to scare most people off) It’s not usually just fun and games for a night or two. It is difficult way of life to maintain. It’s a lot of work and rsponsibility for the dominant partner and alot of trust and faith for the submissive partner. But if nothing else is working… and you were not so tired already. Sorry kid, but the best we’ve come up with for you is A314. If he won’t wear it, you’re going to have to. ---
**Author:** ![MuskCloud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@MuskCloud](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MuskCloud)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/confidence-you-have-to-have-it-and-no-one-can-give-it-to-you/28547/28 "2009-05-02T22:51:13Z")
> [@river](#): > > “tough love option”: Please explain what exactly that means to a guy. Tough love is being forced to confront your insecurities head on. Take the bull by the horns, the tiger by the tail, thrown into the deep end to sink or swim. Guys, I think we’re shooting blind here. I’ve read this thread through again and River doesn’t say what is bothering hubby. It’s possible she doesn’t know. Unless she can answer that question, we’re not really getting anywhere. River? Musk ---
**Author:** ![river](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/river/32/934_2.png) [@river](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/river)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/confidence-you-have-to-have-it-and-no-one-can-give-it-to-you/28547/29 "2009-05-03T00:29:12Z")
> [@MuskCloud](#): > > Tough love is being forced to confront your insecurities head on. Take the bull by the horns, the tiger by the tail, thrown into the deep end to sink or swim. > > Guys, I think we’re shooting blind here. I’ve read this thread through again and River doesn’t say what is bothering hubby. It’s possible she doesn’t know. Unless she can answer that question, we’re not really getting anywhere. > > River? > > Musk Well, I don’t know if my assessment here is correct or not. I know that communication in a relationship is key. Trust me, I know that (because I see what happens when it ISN’T working). But it seems that we talk circles around each other lately. At the end of a conversation, I think I know the true issues and we’ve come to an understanding, but then the same discussions are re-hashed and re-hashed seemingly with no end in sight. I guess there comes a point when you just have to admit it’s not working and try something else, thus, I was wanting an “outsiders” perspective which is why I’m here. So… back to Musk’s question…I’m obviously the last person who understand the goings-on in a man’s brain, but here’s my observations: He needs reassurance for every decision that he makes. And even after he makes a decision, he’ll repeatedly ask if what he did was ok. And it’ll be about the simplest things. OR, he’ll ask for my input on really mundane and ordinary tasks that he does which to me seems like he’s just looking for a pat on the back or something. For example: “I hauled the garbage out to the burn hole. I didn’t burn it though because I thought it was too windy. Come outside here. What do you think? Is it too windy?” For example: “I think the pizza’s done. Come and double-check it.” For example: “Does this blue shirt match these black pants?” C’mon…how many times can I tell him black matches EVERYTHING and what guy doesn’t know what a “done” pizza looks like. Ok…am I just being overly irritated here, or what? I’m beginning to feel more like his mother than his wife. And just so you know, I’ve been replying to these types of questions with “Whatever you think is good” or “I’m sure the pizza’s done. You’ve baked a frozen pizza before” or “Yes. I think you look good”. That’s what I mean that I’ve been trying to “build him up”, trying to get him to make his own decisions about such petty things and being happy with it. He’s been this way pretty much since he stopped drinking and I don’t know if he’s feeling inadequate or what. I have tried the “tough love” thing and told him this type of stuff irritates the hell out of me, but maybe that wasn’t the right words, huh? LOL! And, so as not to leave anything out, I do have to tell you also that I started my “self-improvement” plan last fall after realizing that I deserve to feel better about myself (dropping a few pounds, exercising, dressing nicer, new perfume, pheros, etc). Up to that point, he had absolutely no interest in quitting drinking and quite honestly we were on our way to divorce court because I didn’t want the kids around that all of the time, but once other people started noticing the changes in me and commenting about it, then I think he started to notice too. He’s done a complete about-face w/ regards to the drinking and has even “found religion” which is nothing wrong with that except that now he’s an “expert” on morals.🙄 In fact, he’s even suggested that I’m looking for a new guy, which I am not, which I have repeatedly told him. I live in a very small rural community, have 3 small children, and work 60+ hours a week at a very demanding and high-paced job, and don’t go out much socially beyond work and church. Why in the world would I want another guy when I can’t even handle the one I’ve got and besides, I don’t have time to be “on the prowl” unless I can do speed-prowling in the fifteen minutes of “quiet time” that I have making supper while the kids are in the bathtub. LOL! Like I said, we’ve re-hashed this topic a gazillion times but don’t seem to get anywhere. He admits that he’s never seen me or heard (small town, remember) of me flirting or coming onto anyone else but yet he still makes snide comments about me exercising or if I wear a new top or something. That, and the constant requests for reaffirmation. Only thing I can think of is that he’s feeling insecure about himself now that he’s not drinking. I had another thought as I typed this, do you think the pheros could be unsettling him? IDK…geez I wouldn’t think so, I’ve been wearing them since last Fall. Mostly Shine, IS/a, and Openess. Thinking about it now, I can’t really say I’ve noticed any particular pattern with this type of behavior and pheros, so never mind…was just a thought though. I’ve gone weeks without wearing them and nothing seems to have changed, so scratch that… So, that’s why I’m thinking maybe A314 will help BTW, he refuses to go to counseling, but maybe that’s where the “tough love” comes in, huh? An ultimatum? Yikes! I’d rather it not come to that… ---
**Author:** ![TheAttractor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/theattractor/32/575_2.png) [@TheAttractor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/TheAttractor)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2009, 4:42am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/confidence-you-have-to-have-it-and-no-one-can-give-it-to-you/28547/30 "2009-06-21T04:42:15Z")
> [@river](#): > > BTW, he refuses to go to counseling, but maybe that’s where the “tough love” comes in, huh? An ultimatum? Yikes! I’d rather it not come to that… I came across this thread from a while back, and it seemed interesting enough, so thought I’d add something. I don’t blame your husband for not wanting to go to counseling. Most men have two images of counseling. One is a man (or woman) in a business casual outfit who asks: “how did that make you feel?” in response to everything they say. The other is a woman who keeps exchanging glances with his wife and blames him for all the problems in the marriage. Both take place in a sterile-looking office with tons of diplomas on the walls. Heck, I’d rather [insert some crazy, dangerous act] than go to those types of counseling. So while I understand you’re having problems, I’m going to sympathize with your husband about the counseling thing. It’s a nice idea in principle, but most counseling nowadays isn’t male-friendly. It sounds like your husband would benefit from something called Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), where feelings are viewed as a product of one’s thoughts and ideas. A therapist specializing in CBT asks a client about the thoughts in his head, then tries to analyze how those thoughts could have come about and point out any flaws in them. Men are usually good at logical analysis, so having a professional point out the logical fallacies in your husband’s low opinion of himself will be a lot more helpful than talking about feelings. Now, as for getting your husband to come to a CBT session, that’s where the tough love/ultimatums might have to come in. But even then, don’t withhold sex; that’ll only cause your husband to wander off the moment he gains a marginal amount of confidence. Note: I’m not a psychologist, I just like to read about psychology for the heck of it. ---
**Author:** ![M\_P](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/m_p/32/1633_2.png) [@M\_P](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/M_P)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2009, 5:39am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/confidence-you-have-to-have-it-and-no-one-can-give-it-to-you/28547/31 "2009-06-21T05:39:33Z")
This sounds very familiar to me…I have a friend who acts exactly like your husband river, except it’s not only with his girlfriend, but also with pretty much everyone he knows. He has been seeing a psychiatrist for many years for an unrelated matter, but the issue has come up and it doesn’t seem like it’s done any good. I really don’t know if pheros will make this better as it seems that it’s purely a confidence thing and something that will take a while to build or get back. Does he work out? Maybe bodybuilding could be an uplift for his confidence. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/confidence-you-have-to-have-it-and-no-one-can-give-it-to-you/28547.md?page=1)