# Congruence? What's That? **URL:** \ **Category:** Pheromone Theory & Molecules\ **Created:** [March 8, 2008, 7:54pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805 "2008-03-08T19:54:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![renny](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/renny/32/2104_2.png) [@renny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/renny)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/21 "2008-03-12T15:52:45Z")
Northwestmichael, I hope you’ll post your thoughts too. I’m really enjoying hearing from everybody on this. ---
**Author:** ![bosshank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@bosshank](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bosshank)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/22 "2008-03-12T16:00:28Z")
Renny- Great post - I have not been ignoring it - just thinking it over. I think a lot of the poeple here have hit on a lot of the points I think are critical. > [@renny](#): > > Men of experience and wisdom …. Bosshank, …. weigh in with sagacity. Well, I will let you decide if you think the below thoughts constitute anything close to wisdom and sagacity. > [@renny](#): > > To me being congruent means being more conscious of who I am and what my goals are and what I need to do to get there. If we are not growing we are stagnating. > [@renny](#): > > 1.)Persona: this is the person wearing the pheromones, physical appearance, personality, tone of voice, bearing, manners, wardrobe, style the whole works. The more of ones self that can be brought into agreement with the person’s “ideal” of him/herself the better. The pheromones worn should then match the persona as a whole. I think this is what we mean most of the time when we say “be congruent”.. This is of course very important but is one of the most subjective and when I think when it comes to the idea of what is an alpha, one of the most easily misunderstood. > [@renny](#): > > … involves ensuring that we drink plenty of fluids, eat a healthy diet and exercise. If someone has a medical/psychophysiological condition they need to address that as best they can. … I do believe that we occasionally get someone here who needs therapy more than pheromones. … Those are the things we can control. Taking care of yourself is the absolute starting point. It does not mean we are all at the height of good health or athleticism, but we need to do what we can. > [@renny](#): > > I don’t think it is entirely true that we are what our genes make us. Freewill plays a far more important role in who we are. For most people though, I think that the most important thing is the skillset. Anyone with more than one child will tell you that each one has a definite personality almost from birth. And that personality includes both good and bad behaviors – often such that they can say “They are just like Grandpa” or something similar when they do that. That being said any good parent will also tell that with a bit of effort you can teach them to tame or erase the bad, replace it with better – or at least good control mechanisms for say a “quick temper” – and heighten the good. Genes give us a starting point for a lot of things. It is up to us to move past that starting point to improve ourselves. > [@nbully79](#): > > Presenting our best foot forward in appearance (body language, clothes, hygeine etc.) and manners (behavior, language etc.) definitely helps in reaping most positives of pheromone use. Good appearance and hygiene are the social starting points and something Gegogi often preaches and rightfully so. Appropriate behavior and language for the situation is also a basic but sometimes up for discussion. It is when we get into body language, leadership, and more advanced takes on behavior that we get into some deeper discussion. > [@renny](#): > > Practicing the skill of making and maintaining eye contact with as many people as possible is an example. For most of us, however, eye contact is a skill that requires conscious practice for a short period of time and habitual conciousness for a longer period until it becomes second nature. …. Posture, mannerism, and speech are other skills that can be learned. I’ve certainly found that my desire to maximize the effects that I get from pheromones has been an incentive to improve these skills. Yes – these are behaviors/important social skills that if you do not naturally have them go a long way once you do learn them. > [@tisha23](#): > > I dont consider smiling, being open and friendly, looking people in the eye, ect ect as being aggressive really. … Like I mentioned even shy people can give off enough simple cues to make a mix congruent. It really has nothing to do with being aggressive. Of course not. It is just being somewhere between polite to slightly forward or even flirting. Once again – basic but very important social skills that will carry you far. If you do not have them naturally – work hard and do what you need to do to develop them. > [@tisha23](#): > > Its all a matter of confidence and projecting that confidence with your actions. I wouldnt call it acting and in many cases just by displaying confidence you become more confident. Confidence is a great thing for anyone to have – whether they are that alpha leader or not. Confidence comes with experience and success. And yes, just by displaying confidence and can become a little more confident. And you can certainly inspire confidence in others. Bella’s John Wayne quote comes to mind: “Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyways.” How many leaders have had to do this – pretend to be brave or confident in the face of danger – for the sake of those following them? > [@nbully79](#): > > I have always wondered if congruency is really necessary as sometimes I see results reinforcing that belief and sometimes conflicting with that belief. > [@nbully79](#): > > There are lot of reports on the forum where it seems that even when you are dressed down but wearing a pheromone that communicates high status, you might start getting complements regarding your refined dressing. So it seems that in these cases pheromone message trumped the visual message and we can argue that congruence wasn’t necessary. There are hundreds of similar examples. I too have read some of the same results but I do not necessarily see the first situation as a complete lack of congruency. The dress may be out of place but if the person’s behavior was not congruent with the message the pheromones (A314 if I remember correctly) gave off, they most likely would not have gotten the compliments. In this case I believe the congruency between their phero-signature and the behavior aspect of their visual presentation outweighed the incongruency with the visual presentation of their clothing. > [@nbully79](#): > > I feel there is a threshold or rather a balance of visual and pheromonal vibe where one vibe might dominate another and override the target’s judgement about the person. I think this is exactly what happens in cases like the above. A balance of behavior and pheromone vibe overcame the visual effect of being dressed down. > [@nbully79](#): > > In other examples we have someone wearing a fun gregarious pheromone and then standing in a corner with a scowl (due to some personal reasons or just their serious nature) and then saying people were not being social with them. This is clearly a case where visual presentation trumped the pheromone message. There are hundreds of examples for this scenario as well. This I agree with completely. You can be the most outgoing, fun person in the world, with or without pheromones – but if you are in a bad mood and sit there scowling giving off a “stay away” message all the alpha-nols in the world won’t help. > [@mockingbird](#): > > However, most products doesn’t require much of congruence. Like instant shine will always work toward others unless you look extremely depressed, which counter the positive effects. Instant openness will always put people in a talking/thinking mood, unless you zap ur mouth and don’t reply to others at all. So with most product, being yourself will get you better results in my opinion, since the pheros lead and steer your personality, not the other way around unlike A314. I understand part of what MB is saying here but I think his “unless”es counter part of his argument – and I think our moods steer the pheromones much more so then they steer us. But I certainly agree with the idea of being yourself, as in not trying to portray yourself as something you are not. I am not referring here to those who are trying to improve social skills such as being more friendly, using eye contact, etc.. > [@nbully79](#): > > We also need to be conscious of the fact that pheromones affect the wearer as well so we need to have very good control of our appearance and manners and the ability to block the self effects. [Instant Openness](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/) comes to my mind when I think of this … Now – on to one of my favorite subjects and something I have posted on before. What does it really mean to be an “alpha”? I think Tisha pretty much nailed it. > [@tisha23](#): > > I think alot of people assume that being alpha and being aggressive are the same thing. They are not. I know many alphas who I would not call aggressive at all and I know many aggressive males that are not alphas. You dont have to be aggressive to be congruent even with A314. Nor does it mean you have to be loud, obnoxious, insulting, arrogant – in short an adult version of a bully who is really a little boy posturing for one of a number of reasons – scared, attention seeking, angry at the world, etc.. > [@tisha23](#): > > You also need to take on some of the leadership qualities. This is often the heart of a real alpha. Who or what is a real leader? If you have to use the above posturing – loud, obnoxious, insulting – then it really isn’t you. People may defer to you in a social or even work setting because you are “in charge” or they are afraid of bearing the brunt of your bad behavior, but leading through constant fear is not real leadership. And remember – you can teach someone to be a leader. And with some experience, confidence and fine tuning they can become very good leaders. Some will become that alpha leader if they are not already and some will be still be good leaders but not really alpha. So that means that not every good leader is really an alpha type – I have seen many that are not especially in technical fields – but most alphas are leaders – or can be taught to be good ones if they are not. > [@nbully79](#): > > I really agree that no matter how you define alpha, you can’t just turn it on. Some have got it…probably due to their natural hormone levels…and the rest (majority) have their work cut out for them. My doubt is that there is definitely a feedback loop between your success + happiness + stress levels to your hormone levels, the reason why really successful people come across as alpha without even trying. > [@nbully79](#): > > I think if someone is naturally not an alpha then they can fake it by imitating the behaviors and body language of a natural alpha until their hormone levels catch up to make those traits natural. Until that happens they will always seem incongruent/uncomfortable in their skin and come across as posers. I do not know about the hormone levels rising to match behavior. I do know that you can teach someone to be a good leader. And many of the things you teach them either are or lead directly to those behaviors we often identify with being an alpha. And in some cases some these new or junior leaders are in a way “faking it” until they fully integrate these leadership qualities into their persona. And that lasts until they get sufficient experience and enough success to be confident in themselves and these new skillsets. Once they have enough confidence in both then they finish integrating all that into their persona and evolve into an effective and often alpha leader. > [@tisha23](#): > > Congruency is matching your action not acting like something your not. > [@Baldman](#): > > To me being congruent to the pheromones you’re wearing isn’t even close to being fake. … If you see congruency as meaning you need to be something you aren’t then you won’t get very far at all. Like I said congruency is about losing inhibitions and just being at your best in a way that suits the pheromones you are wearing at any given time. This needs to be done within the confines of who and what you are already, going further will only result in you feeling more inhibited and you’ll lose congruency completely. I think these ideas are a yes and no. When we say “be yourself” I think we mean be honest about who we are. And I completely agree with that. At the same time many of the users here are trying to improve their social or work skillsets - overcoming shyness, etc. and kinda have to live out that John Wayne quote at least for the short term: learning to maintain that eye contact in public, over-coming a fear of initiating contact, standing up at work to be the man. In this type of case I think we are a “work in progress” – much like that developing leader I mentioned above – not quite that confident, out-going person or leader yet – but certainly working on it backed up by the pheromones. In this case we are not quite yet something we are trying to project, but I think we can still achieve congruency if we project these skillsets well enough as we are learning and incorporating them. It may be or come across as a little awkward at first, but eventually it becomes more natural intill we do incorporate into our persona. > [@renny](#): > > 2.)Target: This is the person or group the pheromone wearer wants to interact with. Both the persona and the pheromones worn have to take into account the traits of the target. For me this come under the “right tool for the job” heading and ties directly into the “Task” heading. Am I or the wife in a romantic mood? That is one set of pheromones. Do I just want good connectivity – Instant Honesty. Do I want to come across as the alpha boss at work but want interaction with the people I work with. A314 & Instant Shine or Instant Honesty. Do I just need to come across as “the man” with no doubts for an important meeting – forget the complimentary social products. > [@renny](#): > > 3.)Task: The interaction itself needs to match the target, the persona, and the pheromones. Ditto from above. > [@renny](#): > > 4.)Environment: Consider the difference of a big gregarious guy wearing 5 sprays of ammo to a smoky packed nightclub and the same guy wearing 5 sprays of ammo in a small car with his girlfriend on a warm afternoon. This is probably more a matter of amount than type.. I think this is best summed up in Tisha’s post about What Pheromones will and will not do for you where she discusses someone using pheromones - and I would infer 'none - at a funeral and not getting results. Of course not. Maybe A314 and some IH might do better to help lay the social groundwork for later interaction. Coming across with heavy Turn Up The Heat - well … > [@renny](#): > > 5.) The pheromones themselves. They need to work together and work with the other 4 parameters. I think this should be the easiest part but is often most misused especially by new users. It too comes under the heading of “the right tool for the right job” for me. And I think one of the key errors that is made here is overuse of 'none or the use of 'none in environments where 'none is not really the right tool for the job. > [@renny](#): > > Let’s put some meat on this bone we toss around. LOL – well – I certainly added a lot of SOMETHING to this bone – not sure how much meat vs. fat though. ---
**Author:** ![renny](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/renny/32/2104_2.png) [@renny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/renny)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 5:48pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/23 "2008-03-12T17:48:22Z")
> [@](#): > > If we are not growing we are stagnating. > [@](#): > > Confidence is a great thing for anyone to have – whether they are that alpha leader or not. Confidence comes with experience and success. And yes, just by displaying confidence and can become a little more confident. And you can certainly inspire confidence in others. Bella’s John Wayne quote comes to mind: “Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyways.” How many leaders have had to do this – pretend to be brave or confident in the face of danger – for the sake of those following them? > [@](#): > > And remember – you can teach someone to be a leader. And with some experience, confidence and fine tuning they can become very good leaders. Some will become that alpha leader if they are not already and some will be still be good leaders but not really alpha. So that means that not every good leader is really an alpha type – I have seen many that are not especially in technical fields – but most alphas are leaders – or can be taught to be good ones if they are not. Courage and confidence are terms that sometimes become confusing. Bosshank uses them quite properly but let me make the distinction here for people who may not understand the difference. Confidence is the knowledge that something can be done. It comes mostly from experience. Once you have done something you will have gained confidence that you can do it again. There are other ways to have confidence, but this is the most common. If it was something that was very difficult for you to do you may only have more confidence in your ability to do do thething. You may need to repeat it several times before you become very confident about it. Courage is the act of putting something at risk to do something. Courage may be needed every time you do something no matter how confident you are in your ability to do it. Bella’s quote is a perfect rendition of this. Alpha and leader are two more terms that are sometimes confused. “The Alpha” is a behavioral science term for the observed leader of a group. It is visibly demonstrating your ability to lead that makes you “alpha”. Leading takes both confidence in your ability to lead and courage to actually risk the refusal of the other to follow you. I hope this makes sense. Sometimes I think these terms get a little difficult to understand. They are basic to understanding congruence. ---
**Author:** ![bosshank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@bosshank](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bosshank)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/24 "2008-03-12T18:08:03Z")
Very nice explanations, Renny, very nice. Thank you and my apologies if I confused anyone … ---
**Author:** ![renny](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/renny/32/2104_2.png) [@renny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/renny)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/25 "2008-03-12T18:27:29Z")
Don’t apologize Bosshank. I thought you were quite clear. These four terms were just being used a lot in the thread and I just wanted to make sure we were all being understood. ---
**Author:** ![malleus](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/malleus/32/1722_2.png) [@malleus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/malleus)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/26 "2008-03-13T17:40:07Z")
As far as pheromone theory goes, I agree with renny’s statement that there are multiple types (and ways of perceiving) congruency. There is the congruency of artificial pheromones with your natural pheromones; there is congruency of added artificial pheromones with each other; and there is congruency of your pheromone signature with how you are behaving (and vice versa), among other types of congruency. I have noticed that the most important kind of congruency so far, for me, has been the congruency of the artificial pheromones I use with each other. Obviously, the ratio of pheromones and the types of pheromones used are of utmost importance. Why else would [Instant Openness](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/), Instant Honesty, and Come Talk To Me produce such different results when they contain only a relatively slight difference in quantities of alpha and beta-androstenol? In addition, throwing in massive quantities of a dozen different pheromones seems to produce consistent failure for me, no matter how effective they may be on their own. It is hard to speak to the matter of congruency of artificial pheromones and one’s natural pheromones. None of us, I suppose, really knows our natural pheromone signature. For example, we might postulate that we produce more androstenone than average (based on age, race, blood type, etc.), or the like. But how can we be sure? It would be interesting if we could determine our natural signature in quantities and then supplement with artificial pheromones where we are lacking. Having pheromone congruency with how you are behaving (or pretending to behave) is also important. This is closely related to the idea of having a congruent signature with what task you are performing (as renny said), which is why no one recommends wearing Instant Jerk to the office. This is complicated, however, by what we are trying to achieve in a given circumstance. I think most of us ask ourselves what we intend to achieve on a particular day/night before we apply our pheromones. But, if I apply TAL, in order to try to encourage girls to be more assertive with me, am I better off acting like a wimp? I don’t think so. But is TAL congruent with alpha-male personality? Maybe not. Can it still be effective? I think so. Can soft, cuddly pheromones be worn with hard-ass, toughguy pheromones? People do it. However, this poses another question: if soft, cuddly pheromones cannot be worn effectively with hard-ass, toughy pheromones, is it because the pheromones conflict with each other, or because the pheromones conflict with our signature? In other words, if they do not work with each other, is it because the pheromones are sending mixed signals or because it is impossible for us to act congruently with the state of being both cuddly and tough? I have no answers… ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/27 "2008-03-13T21:26:16Z")
> [@malleus](#): > > But, if I apply TAL, in order to try to encourage girls to be more assertive with me, am I better off acting like a wimp? I don’t think so. But is TAL congruent with alpha-male personality? Maybe not. Can it still be effective? I think so. Can soft, cuddly pheromones be worn with hard-ass, toughguy pheromones? People do it. However, this poses another question: if soft, cuddly pheromones cannot be worn effectively with hard-ass, toughy pheromones, is it because the pheromones conflict with each other, or because the pheromones conflict with our signature? In other words, if they do not work with each other, is it because the pheromones are sending mixed signals or because it is impossible for us to act congruently with the state of being both cuddly and tough? I have no answers… tacitus did it in his greasy pig mix… ---
**Author:** ![malleus](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/malleus/32/1722_2.png) [@malleus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/malleus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 9:45am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/28 "2008-03-14T09:45:23Z")
Tacitus seemed to see results from everything he tried. Some people have said this is due to his particular sensitivity and perceptiveness. I dunno, but I have tried a lot of his mixes (some of which looked like a little bit of everything dumped in–see, e.g., his supermix) to no avail. ---
**Author:** ![northwestmichael](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/northwestmichael/32/169_2.png) [@northwestmichael](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/northwestmichael)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2008, 3:47am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/29 "2008-03-15T03:47:44Z")
Congruence… This is a very Zen concept to me. Being congruent or “one with” is something I work on every day. Especially when it comes to music. I am a musician and have toiled over the years to be one with the music I am playing/performing/recording… This means over the years I have developed a mental method of staying “in” the music as it is happening in time. I have created mental tricks so to speak to help. For instance if I am performing live and am getting distracted by a number of things like thinking about something that happened the day before; and the music I am playing starts to become a distant thought to the over-riding distraction, I can catch myself and look at my instrument and focus and “get back” to where I need to be. I am the music not just an extention. I am being congruent with being a musician and a performer. I am being congruent with the energy of the particular piece. I am being one with the characteristics of the music as well as the characteristics of performing. When you see say a cellist like Yo-Yo Ma perform and he seems to be in another world you will witness congruence in its purest form… That being said I believe this same sort of “mental training” can apply to all aspects of life. I mean I wasn’t born being congruent with musical performance, though I adapted quite quickly and do believe people can be predisposed to being more natural at certain characteristics in life than others; we all have our natural talents… BUT if one studies the characteristics of certain behaviors and practices, they can become congruent with them. It takes dedication and MOST importantly, patience. A314 has been a great substance for me.. It didn’t take musch time to realize that we are a good fit. Naturally congruent. Turn Up The Heat on the other hand has been a bear. What I did figure out is that I ignored the characteristics of TUTH and projected something different while wearing it. I FINALLY have stopped and re-evaluated the characteristics of TUTH, practiced a bit more and have made it work better. I have focused on the instrument and the characteristics, projecting what the song (substance/TUTH) is saying thus becoming congruent with its vibe/energy. For a song to work on an emotional level (which is the only way music is effective) One must understand its emotional frequency, its sweet spot, tempo, dynamics, energy of the room. Human behavior is much the same. What are you trying to project? What tools are you using to project? ARe you being distracted or are you uneffected by some other energy that may be taking you away from what you projecting. All these things must be taken into consideration.. ---
**Author:** ![Pheraoh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/pheraoh/32/857_2.png) [@Pheraoh](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Pheraoh)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/30 "2008-03-20T18:08:12Z")
Sometime ago whilst being in a LTR, I remained pheroless for a while. I used A314 alot with Ammo or any other combination of pheros thrown in. When we were out one night she told me “I don’t know what had happened to you, but you seem to be acting very immature as of late.” In the back of my head I knew what is was. I also thought about how pheromones can shape behavior. General consensus says that overtime and over constant exposure that self effects diminish. But if you wear them constantly couldn’t they possibly cause subtle self behavioral changes that you become accustomed to from constant exposure? Conversely, if you act out of character to mental message said phero projects does it always end up as incongruency or does it merely change context for better or worse? I believe congruency isn’t as black and white as its made out to be. If you’re an ugly, socially retarded creep with no concept of fashion sense or hygiene before pheros, you will still be such afterwards. Not how about this one: If you handed a homeless beggar A314 and [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/) and told him by applying these he would receive more spare change, would he in turn get a better payout ratio? Would the Alpha vibe make him more menacing and scary? Or would people be more inclined to help him out? That would be contextual not congruency. If he entered a fancy restaurant would they seat him? Fuck no. Environment and perceived social caste are other factors that make me believe congruency as we use it in a phero definition is still very open ended. ---
**Author:** ![renny](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/renny/32/2104_2.png) [@renny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/renny)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/31 "2008-03-20T18:23:45Z")
> [@Pheraoh](#): > > Sometime ago whilst being in a LTR, I remained pheroless for a while. I used A314 alot with Ammo or any other combination of pheros thrown in. When we were out one night she told me “I don’t know what had happened to you, but you seem to be acting very immature as of late.” Just to clarify, did she tell you that after you stopped wearing A314? ---
**Author:** ![Pheraoh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/pheraoh/32/857_2.png) [@Pheraoh](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Pheraoh)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 6:47pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/32 "2008-03-20T18:47:51Z")
Yup. The paradox is if I acted like a goof whilst wearing it what would occur? ---
**Author:** ![smoothplayer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@smoothplayer](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/smoothplayer)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/33 "2008-04-19T20:51:38Z")
Great post Renny! I totally agree. There are other variables involved that determine the effectiveness of the pheromones, and even determine an OD to some extent. I’ve been experimenting with the way I dress and how it effects the effectiveness of pheromones. For example, when I first starting using pheromones, they were immediately effective. But then I hit a point where I felt they weren’t as effective. I realized congruence plays a large role in this. And that’s what you described, not just how you dress, but overall how you present yourself and the environment as well. When I’m dressed with a hoodie or regular shirt, at most I get respect from guys when wearing Ammo or -none. But when I wear a nice dress shirt, ironed, the same dose of Ammo gets me a lot more hits from women. More eye contact, flirting, touching, etc. But, just wearing a nice shirt, without pheromones, gets me a tad more attention, so with pheromones it’s a real boost. But that’s also because most of my environments are pretty bland, making me stand out with a nice shirt. I go to school, so most other kids are usually dressed in the hoodies and sweaters. It’s also because when I dress nice, I naturally feel a bit more confident and better about myself, than when I’m not. In a business environment, where everyone is wearing the professional attire, I’ve noticed pheromones are slightly less effective. They seem to be the most effective in environments where I already can set myself apart from the crowd to a small extent. And yes, they’re effective (or more effective) so long as I act and present myself in congruence with the pheromones. I’m generally outgoing, friendly, and confident, so Ammo and CTTM work well with my natural personality. But too much -none can feel awkward to myself, and that’s why the OD occurs, it’s mostly because of myself, not the reactions of others. Likewise, too much -Androstenol doesn’t go well with me. I think we all have certain types of pheromones that best amp up our natural persona, and that’s the ultimate mix. Edit: I didn’t read any of the other posts in the thread before posting, other than the original. I apologize if I repeated anything that may have already been said. I’ll be reading the rest here and there though. ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 1:57am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/34 "2008-04-22T01:57:40Z")
> [@smoothplayer](#): > > And yes, they’re effective (or more effective) so long as I act and present myself in congruence with the pheromones. I’m generally outgoing, friendly, and confident, so Ammo and CTTM work well with my natural personality. But too much -none can feel awkward to myself, and that’s why the OD occurs, it’s mostly because of myself, not the reactions of others. Likewise, too much -Androstenol doesn’t go well with me. > > I think we all have certain types of pheromones that best amp up our natural persona, and that’s the ultimate mix. I can’t remember if this was covered previously in the thread or not, but since I guess it doesn’t hurt to point it out and elaborate on it. I think that the idea of certain types of pheromones that best amp up our natural persona is valid. It’s like wearing clothes you’re comfortable with. Give me some XXL white tees and a 36 waist baggy jeans, I’ll probably look out of place. Give me a Ben Sherman (just happens to fit me well) shirt, some well fitting jeans and I’ll look like I belong. I find that Instant Shine alone can get me very good hits. -None reliant combos don’t seem to work that well for me. Neither do the sexually dark vibes. I’ve got dark vibes like that, but I reserve that for later. As you said, Ammo’s okay - but something like p79 doesn’t work as well or as often for me. Which brings up the question, is that because my natural persona is uncomfortable sending out a dark, sexual vibe? Or, is it because I already have an intense personality that I try and repress a bit and therefore the lighter, [social pheromones](https://a314.com/product-category/social-pheromones/) are more complimentary and round me out better? I find that an interesting question because if it is because our natural persona is uncomfortable, and thus makes the phero sig incongruent, then complimentary pheromones wouldn’t be very effective because it would go against our natural persona. That would mean to work with our natural persona, we need to emphasize predominant vibes in our personas. Then there’s the case of pheromones being a ‘social learning accelerant’. This is something that I wholeheartly agree with. So, perhaps while we will receive better/more/faster hits with a phero sig that is congruent with our natural persona (note the phero sig is made to be congruent with _ **our** _ natural persona and not vice versa), applying pheromones that contrast (or complement, depending on how you look at it) will result in worse/less/slower hits. But, after continued use of contrasting phero sig, we can learn to be congruent with the sig (notice this time, we’re learning to become congruent with the pheromones). ---
**Author:** ![Bella](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bella/32/1738_2.png) [@Bella](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Bella)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2008, 5:56am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/35 "2008-04-26T05:56:26Z")
renny, sorry I’ve taken so long to respond…you know me…I can be a pokey puppy. Doesn’t mean I haven’t been thinking about it…at this point I don’t know what I can really add…it’s all been said and so eloquently…but here goes…my own take on it…for what it’s worth. I like this mathematical definition because it expresses best how I see… Congruence: Coinciding exactly when super imposed. To me that means being the image you project. > [@northwestmichael](#): > > Congruence… _ **This is a very Zen concept to me.** _ \*\*\*Being congruent or “one with” is something I work on every day. \*\*\*\*\*\*I am the music not just an extention. \*\*\* The quintessential definition. Beautifully stated, michael. 😉 > [@renny](#): > > _ **What is congruency?** _ _**My favorite is “Agreement of character (parameter)”.**_ > \*\*\*\*\*\*I see several areas (or characters/parameters) that should have a degree of agreement. The closer they are in agreement the better \*\*\* > _ **pheromones work.** _ The parameters you define are like connect the dots only all sides are equal (i.e. equilateral triangle). They must be in equal proportion (balance) to project the image as a whole. That’s what makes it real…that, to me, is congruence. The problem, is often, not knowing how to be congruent. In order to be congruent you must first know yourself. Self analysis is difficult to say the least. Deameanor, personality, abilities and goals. Who are you? Alpha/beta, warm/friendly, distant/quiet? And don’t lie to yourself when trying to figure it out in relation to life or pheromones. First building block of life…always…“To thine own self be true.” > [@bosshank](#): > > _ **Once again – basic but very important social skills that will carry you far. If you do not have them naturally – work hard and do what you need to do to develop them.** _ > \*\*\*How many leaders have had to do this – _ **pretend to be brave or confident in the face of danger** _ – for the sake of those following them? \*\*\* Congruence in relationship to pheromone use is, not often, intrinsic. You must first establish it before you can carry/project the image you desire. Once you decide what image you want to project…if you’re not achieving your goal…you must then change, _want to change_, what’s inhibiting you. Only the brave tread here… And along with agreement comes conformity…which is paramount to achieving your goals…especially with pheromones. You need to establish a game plan. Here’s where we adjust the learning curve… > [@bosshank](#): > > _ **“faking it” until they fully integrate these leadership qualities into their persona. And that lasts until they get sufficient experience and enough success to be confident in themselves and these new skillsets.** _ _ **I think we can still achieve congruency if we project these skillsets well enough as we are learning and incorporating them. It may be or come across as a little awkward at first, but eventually it becomes more natural intill we do incorporate into our persona.** _ Faking/acting can work too, to a point, when used as ‘mental training wheels’. However you can’t keep it up indefinitely. Thing is…after you come to know people it’s only a matter of time before that facade begins to chip away. Being able to carry the ‘air’ (pheromone) you’re trying to project is being congruent. > [@bosshank](#): > > _ **I certainly agree with the idea of being yourself, as in not trying to portray yourself as something you are not. I am not referring here to those who are trying to improve social skills such as being more friendly, using eye contact, etc** _.._ **When we say “be yourself” I think we mean be honest about who we are** _. > [@Phoenix](#): > > _ **When we are not congruent with ourselves, we are kind of not being ourselves… like trying to be something you aren’t.. it ends up being fake.** _ Best to start out as yourself…“a work in progress” as bosshank says. Nothing disappoints, turns people off, or confuses them more than discovering you’re not the person they thought you were because you didn’t live up to or lied about the image you projected. People worth knowing will see right through you. If you can…with time, practice, forbearence and execution incorporate this ‘learned behavior’…it must at some point become real…or no dice. You gotta make it personal\*…it must be\* _you._ Again michael said it best. > [@bosshank](#): > > _ **For me this come under the “right tool for the job” heading and ties directly into the “Task” heading.** _ Pheromones _are_ tools…learn to use them specifically for success. > [@bosshank](#): > > _ **I think our moods steer the pheromones much more so then they steer us.** _ Gotta pay attention. Pheromones are an excellent directive. Know how you feel, who you’ll be with, what you want, where you are, where you’re going and how you’ll get there. Better to steer clear of an unnecessarily bumpy ride. Choose your pheromones carefully. > [@bosshank](#): > > _ **A balance of behavior and pheromone vibe overcame the visual effect of being dressed down.** _ > [@nbully79](#): > > _ **Where does that leave us on the question of congruence…** _ > _ **I feel there is a threshold or rather a balance of visual and pheromonal vibe where one vibe might dominate another and override the target’s judgement about the person.** _ As far as dressing up the image… What you put ‘over’ determines what it looks like…at least from the outside. It’s what you fill it with that’s most important - that’s the A314 phenomenom. The behavior and deameanor matches the pheromone signature and is therefore, in this instance, congruent. I understand this very well. My physical appearance belies who I am and I often work it to my advantage. Again, gotta know when to pull which rabbit out of your hat. Hence the parameters. Carefully taking all of the above into consideration to tie up a neat package in projecting your desired image to achieve your goal. With understanding comes knowledge…that’s when acting congruent becomes evident. > [@nbully79](#): > > _**Presenting our best foot forward in appearance (body language, clothes, hygeine etc.) and manners (behavior, language etc.) definitely helps in reaping most positives of pheromone use.**_ An attractive outward appearance…will get you in the door…backed up by substance to keep you there…that’s the ticket. No sense putting on the sexy dress with no sexy attitude to go with it. When I put on the sexy dress I put on the sexy attitude…I feel/fill it from the inside out…and I ain’t talkin’ 'bout no Wonder Bra. But sometimes…it works the other way - putting on the dress/ pheromones _inspires_ the attitude. Either way before I hit the door it all works together…I’m congruent…and I assure you…_it’s all me_…lol. If you can’t walk in high heels…better wear flats 'til ya get used to 'em or you’ll fall on your…f’ed up pheromonal a\*\*…baby steps… > [@renny](#): > > _ **Let’s put some meat on this bone we toss around. It will help us and it will help those we are welcoming daily to this world** _. > [@bosshank](#): > > _ **LOL – well – I certainly added a lot of SOMETHING to this bone – not sure how much meat vs. fat though.** _ And now ya got a whole lotta gristle to go with the meat and fat…lol…here…some toothpicks…🙄 Bella ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Daedelus76](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Daedelus76)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/36 "2008-05-17T19:52:02Z")
Late to the party, but… It seems to me it would be nice to be congruent with the pheromones, but I could see situations where that wouldn’t be desireable. Like if a person were naturally a little bent on being a lone wolf (guilty… sometimes), and scared people away as a result. In that case, a pheromone other than a-none would probably produce better results- the pheromone would mask their personality/behavior. ---
**Author:** ![renny](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/renny/32/2104_2.png) [@renny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/renny)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 9:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/37 "2008-05-17T21:44:07Z")
> [@Daedelus76](#): > > Late to the party, but… > > It seems to me it would be nice to be congruent with the pheromones, but I could see situations where that wouldn’t be desireable. Like if a person were naturally a little bent on being a lone wolf (guilty… sometimes), and scared people away as a result. In that case, a pheromone other than a-none would probably produce better results- the pheromone would mask their personality/behavior. Daedelus, latecomers are welcome. I hope that anybody with an interesting point will feel free to put it up anytime. You touch on a couple of things here that are interesting. One is the case of wearing only pheromones with which you are “naturally” congruent. That is probably the best case scenario. I think it’s much more common that folks who find their way here are looking for a “makeover”. For instance your lone wolf may be looking to become a more friendly and social person. Simply spraying on some androstenol won’t get him there. He needs to take other steps as well, like being willing to carry on a conversation, availing himself of some interesting things to talk about and perhaps even some more basic things like personal grooming or even diction. If being more social is not his main objective and he just sees socializing as a means to an end, let’s say seduction, then he may in fact be better off playing to his strength, greasing up with dirty and going after women who really dig lone wolf types. The other side of the coin is the eagle scout who turns shy when a woman comes onto him. He may have social skills in a group that could charm a cobra but his shyness with women make it hard for him to score. He’s going to have a tough time being congruent with anything until he works to overcome the shyness. ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Daedelus76](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Daedelus76)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2008, 3:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/38 "2008-05-18T15:24:46Z")
> [@renny](#): > > He needs to take other steps as well, like being willing to carry on a conversation, availing himself of some interesting things to talk about and perhaps even some more basic things like personal grooming or even diction. My goal isn’t to necessarily hook up with somebody, just elicit better reactions from people, at this point. Honestly I’m not sure if I am a lone wolf, or just look like one sometimes. I guess it depends on the circumstances. Sometimes I’m comfortable being that lone wolf, other times it’s uncomfortable. As I said in another thread, I’m probably borderline Asperger’s, which means I give off alot of the wrong social vibes and don’t always pick up on other peoples vibes. It’s sort of ironic as I studied psychology in college (i minored in it). Also, I’ve lived all over the US (except Pacific Northwest… I’ve even lived in Guam) and in parts of Europe for a while and they have very different customs I have gotten used to- some places have less-or-more smiling, touching, and eye contact (people smile less in the UK and they are less boisterous as compared to Americans, for instance… and even in the US there’s a variation in regions regarding things like personal space, eye contact, touch, etc.). Sometimes it’s hard for me to know how to act and fit in. The more I think about it, the more I think Renny is absolutely right. If you try to be something you aren’t, and use pheromones or anything else to cover it up, you are trying to live a lie in a certain sense, possibly at somebody else’s expense. And that could be considered unethical- the subject of the ethics of pheromones could be a thread in itself, but I think it does tie in with what Renny is saying about congruence with a person’s personality. At some points, you have to decide what you are philosophically, what you value, and be true to that. ---
**Author:** ![K24](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/k24/32/1513_2.png) [@K24](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/K24)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 4:30am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/39 "2008-07-04T04:30:27Z")
ok, Mr renny requested me to expand this in the congruency section so here it is: extracted from my other post [A314 and congruency](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/a314-and-congruency/13967) > [@](#): > > Also, I think congruency is sometimes a little “overrated” here by some people. sure it is an important factor, but think about it, you cannot be congruent to everyone single product, you can only try your best and that’s what it counts. > IMO as long as you are not completely incongruent to the pheromones it is fine, don’t use congruency as a sole decision on whether to choose a product or not, as long as you put SOME effort into it you will get something in return. just because you are not an extremely high status guy or have great alpha vibes, doesn’t mean A314 won’t benefit you or you cannot choose the product. > come to think of it, why need A314 at all if you are a great alpha and have extremely high status?? if it’s me i would choose something else such as Instant Shine or Instant Openness to balance my image. so to sum it up, congruency is still a VERY important factor, because..if you look closely, using pheromone is all about self-improvement in a sense, or at least people who go down that path have greater success in the long term, so hopefully by using pheromone you will improve your social skills, grooming, be more approachable, and act confident etc and let the pheromones work for you and vice versa. for example, if you choose A314 (a great example here), you are hopefully just one step closer to becoming a confident, alpha male, and you should subconciously act like one, you may not succeed at first try but self-improvement is a long process. on the other hand if you say to yourself: “ok i’m not an alpha male, i’m shy, i’m not confident, i don’t have high status and i don’t get respect from people, so A314 will not work for me, as a result i will never give it a try because i know i will not be alpha male anyway and it would be useless”. then you are probably right…you will NEVER be one. remember, if you are at least WILLING to try and be congruent, then i’d say eventually pheromones will work for you, they are just a stepping stone towards long term self-improvement. ---
**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 2:56am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805/40 "2008-07-09T02:56:51Z")
The word I missed seeing in the above dialog was “culture”. I apologize for backing into this conversation, but when we speak about being congruent with a pherosignal we are talking about the signal-receivers’ expectations. What I’m suggesting is this: if you’re talking about wearing pheros and you have an audience of ~one~ there is a completely different “field” of congruence than when you are among a target audience of ten or thirty or three hundred. In a large group, cultural expectations dominate the issue of congruence. For example, say we have a cultural reference called “The Fonz” (from Happy Days.) There are certain pherosignatures (and sub-signature components) that would be congruent with “The Fonz.” But standing and walking in a certain Fonzie-ish manner might not mean the same thing in Abu-Dabi that it does in Los Angeles. Holding your earlobe could be a strong signal, or touching someone with your left hand, or … etc. etc. I think there is plenty of room for deliberately “breaking” congruence … for sending a message that your behavior contradicts (in a particular cultural context.) But, it depends on your intent … which is what Renny meant, I think, by “Task”. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805.md?page=1) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/congruence-whats-that/9805.md?page=3)