# Crazy, Crazy IOIs but no attraction?! How? Help please? **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [July 15, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135 "2012-07-15T04:23:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DevilJin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/258eb7/32.png) [@DevilJin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DevilJin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/1 "2012-07-15T04:23:12Z")
Hi guys, a bit of background, I’ve been in the friendzone with a girl but we’ve both begun to move out of it. I’ve had obvious IOIs from her constantly but now she tells me that she’s not attrracted to me in a physical sense. Now my question is, do [pheromones](https://a314.com/shop/) work in such a subconscious way that people don’t realise that they’re feeling attracted to you and the IOIs are subconscious? If this is the case then aren’t they a bit pointless? If that’s not the case could someone please explain to me how what she said is possible? I’ve used Ammo, IS, IH, P83, P74 around her. I’ve also got a314 and P75. Anyone know of a pheromone that’s designed to purely amplify your looks/attraction? ---
**Author:** ![still18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/34f0e0/32.png) [@still18](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/still18)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 7:16am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/2 "2012-07-15T07:16:53Z")
Could you post up the dosages you used of the products and the age of the girl? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Sebastian](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/john_sebastian/32/1060_2.png) [@John\_Sebastian](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/John_Sebastian)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 7:57am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/3 "2012-07-15T07:57:07Z")
**Can you please tell me the difference between an IOI and attraction?** [http://a0.twimg.com/profile\_images/1942867215/image.jpg](http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1942867215/image.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![DevilJin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/258eb7/32.png) [@DevilJin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DevilJin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 7:57am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/4 "2012-07-15T07:57:45Z")
> [@still18](#): > > Could you post up the dosages you used of the products and the age of the girl? Ive used 1xammo, 2xIS and 25mcg of [P83](https://a314.com/product/p83/). The other combo was 2xAmmo, 3xIH, 4xIS, 30mcg of P74 and 30mcg of P83. She’s also 22. Just to clarify, she says that she wants a relationship but only if/when she finds me physically attractive. ---
**Author:** ![DevilJin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/258eb7/32.png) [@DevilJin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DevilJin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 7:58am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/5 "2012-07-15T07:58:51Z")
> [@John\_Sebastian](#): > > Can you please tell me the difference between an IOI and attraction? 🙄 Sorry John I’m not sure what you mean? Sarcasm 😕 I’m guessing sarcasm. Now if she is attracted and the IOIs are a result of it. Then why on earth did she say what she did? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Sebastian](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/john_sebastian/32/1060_2.png) [@John\_Sebastian](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/John_Sebastian)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 8:02am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/6 "2012-07-15T08:02:26Z")
> [@DevilJin](#): > > Sorry John I’m not sure what you mean? Sarcasm 😕 I’m guessing sarcasm. Now if she is attracted and the IOIs are a result of it. Then why on earth did she say what she did? You know, IOI stands for “indicators of **interest** ” right? So if you are getting those that means she is\*\* interest\*\*ed. Which is what we call **attraction**. My work here is done. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Sebastian](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/john_sebastian/32/1060_2.png) [@John\_Sebastian](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/John_Sebastian)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 8:03am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/7 "2012-07-15T08:03:55Z")
> [@DevilJin](#): > > Sorry John I’m not sure what you mean? Sarcasm 😕 I’m guessing sarcasm. Now if she is attracted and the IOIs are a result of it. Then why on earth did she say what she did? Its an excuse. IOIs are attraction. Are you out of shape or something? Does she expect you to get facial reconstructive surgery? She is fucking with you. Here is my advice, my friend. Its becoming my catch phrase: _ **walk away.** _ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Sebastian](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/john_sebastian/32/1060_2.png) [@John\_Sebastian](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/John_Sebastian)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 8:25am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/8 "2012-07-15T08:25:26Z")
Sorry for so many different posts but the fact is that there are plenty of girls out there. This one is messing with your head. You can tell she’s interested, she is just getting off on pushing you away. You’re better than that - either hit hard with TUTH to force her out of the game she’s playing or walk away and find somebody more worth your time. btw: Check your e-mail, something on its way. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DevilJin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/258eb7/32.png) [@DevilJin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DevilJin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 8:25am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/9 "2012-07-15T08:25:33Z")
> [@John\_Sebastian](#): > > Its an excuse. > > IOIs are attraction. > > Are you out of shape or something? Does she expect you to get facial reconstructive surgery? She is fucking with you. > > Here is my advice, my friend. Its becoming my catch phrase: > > _ **walk away.** _ I’m really cautious about being fucked around by any girl but she’s explicitly stated that she wants a relationship with me and I’m probably one of the two people she’s closest to in this whole world. So my question was can attraction be subconscious? Sorry if I’ve irked you John, I wasn’t for a second questioning AD’s products quality. Trust me IH worked well and it was with IH, we spoke openly about many many things (some of which I can’t repeat on here) but even with IH on, she said she’s not physically attracted to me. So why would she be so honest about things I thought shed never say, then lie about this? ---
**Author:** ![DevilJin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/258eb7/32.png) [@DevilJin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DevilJin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 8:26am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/10 "2012-07-15T08:26:49Z")
> [@John\_Sebastian](#): > > Sorry for so many different posts but the fact is that there are plenty of girls out there. This one is messing with your head. You can tell she’s interested, she is just getting off on pushing you away. > > You’re better than that - either hit hard with TUTH to force her out of the game she’s playing or walk away and find somebody more worth your time. > > btw: Check your e-mail, something on its way. 😛 Email? Do you mean PM? Or the email I registered on to this forum with? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Sebastian](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/john_sebastian/32/1060_2.png) [@John\_Sebastian](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/John_Sebastian)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 8:27am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/11 "2012-07-15T08:27:06Z")
> [@DevilJin](#): > > I’m really cautious about being fucked around by any girl but she’s explicitly stated that she wants a relationship with me and I’m probably one of the two people she’s closest to in this whole world. So my question was can attraction be subconscious? Sorry if I’ve irked you John, I wasn’t for a second questioning AD’s products quality. Trust me IH worked well and it was with IH, we spoke openly about many many things (some of which I can’t repeat on here) but even with IH on, she said she’s not physically attracted to me. So why would she be so honest about things I thought shed never say, then lie about this? You didn’t irk me - she irk’d me because she is obviously messing with you. Stop letting her pull you around and seriously: move on. Like I said, you’re better than just being a chew toy. ---
**Author:** ![DevilJin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/258eb7/32.png) [@DevilJin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DevilJin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 8:31am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/12 "2012-07-15T08:31:55Z")
> [@John\_Sebastian](#): > > You didn’t irk me - she irk’d me because she is obviously messing with you. Stop letting her pull you around and seriously: move on. > > Like I said, you’re better than just being a chew toy. She wouldn’t risk losing my friendship like that. Could it be that her attraction is more subconscious? I want to fill you in on the whole story(then you’ll see what I mean, when I say that she isn’t playing me) but would rather do it privately and not on the forum. PS, did you email me to the email I registered on this site with? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Sebastian](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/john_sebastian/32/1060_2.png) [@John\_Sebastian](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/John_Sebastian)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 8:34am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/13 "2012-07-15T08:34:39Z")
> [@DevilJin](#): > > She wouldn’t risk losing my friendship like that. Could it be that her attraction is more subconscious? I want to fill you in on the whole story(then you’ll see what I mean, when I say that she isn’t playing me) but would rather do it privately and not on the forum. > > PS, did you email me to the email I registered on this site with? Yes, and you can feel free to e-mail me your story but honestly, there is attraction from what I can see. I think that she is making an excuse for some reason. Maybe she’s not playing games but more socially concerned about what it would mean if you two got intimate. No idea. ---
**Author:** ![DevilJin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/258eb7/32.png) [@DevilJin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DevilJin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 8:44am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/14 "2012-07-15T08:44:13Z")
> [@John\_Sebastian](#): > > Yes, and you can feel free to e-mail me your story but honestly, there is attraction from what I can see. I think that she is making an excuse for some reason. Maybe she’s not playing games but more socially concerned about what it would mean if you two got intimate. > > No idea. I’ll email you in the next hour or so, thanks for your time John, it’s much appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![DevilJin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/258eb7/32.png) [@DevilJin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DevilJin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 9:08am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/15 "2012-07-15T09:08:27Z")
> [@John\_Sebastian](#): > > Yes, and you can feel free to e-mail me your story but honestly, there is attraction from what I can see. I think that she is making an excuse for some reason. Maybe she’s not playing games but more socially concerned about what it would mean if you two got intimate. > > No idea. Email sent John. ---
**Author:** ![Centaur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Centaur](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Centaur)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 12:52pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/16 "2012-07-15T12:52:06Z")
This one is obvious.. o details really necessary beyond what you have posted. She is Better Dealing you. Men and women do this, but women are the worst offenders. What she is doing is basically giving you enough to keep you interested and around her. She realizes that you are good catch, she is attracted to you, but she is hoping somebody comes along who is even better. She realizes that may not happen, so she will keep stringing you along for as long as she can and delay anything that may lead to a commitment or a narrowing of her options, just in case she finds The One. At which point she’ll kick you to the curb. Is this conscious? probably not. Which is why she hasn’t tripped your “she’s fucking with me” radar. It is instinct- especially for a younger women at the peak of her physical attraction. Her instinct to find the highest quality mate she can pull, is conflicting with her attraction for you. Listen to the wise words of Mr Sebastian. Walk away. Short of that, flip the script on her. Say this " look I’m attracted to you, but I really don’t think I’d want relationship with you. I just think we can have fun with each other and keep it open, no commitment. We’re such good friends and neither of us are dating anyone, so why not? So why not have fun while WAITING FOR THE RIGHT ONE TO COME ALONG" Don’t worry about it when she plays offended, or her head blows up. Its just her way of testing if you really mean it and keeping you in check as the “backup plan”. Either she will quickly realize that she will have to close the deal to keep you, or she will soon enough. If she balks, just calmly say that is how you feel and don’t ever initiate contact.. only respond when she does. In my experience she will become the chaser. But that depends on her level of attraction to a large degree- and you previous behavior as well. The probem with this is two-fold. If she responds, you will lose respect for her because you will see her more quickly and after the initial fun of having her, you will resent her. Second, its hard to pull off unless you mean it and are willing to walk away. So the best advice is as JS says- walk away. If you can’t try what I say. But don’t lie to yourself, this is over, one way or the other. Me? I figure I would lay her just for having wasted my time. ---
**Author:** ![21wq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/ccd318/32.png) [@21wq](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/21wq)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/17 "2012-07-15T14:56:31Z")
My immediate reaction to reading this was similar to John’s. “_What does it mean when she does that? It means she’s the devil._” Then I saw your posting name and laughed at the irony. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 1:41am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/19 "2012-07-16T01:41:43Z")
Attraction is conscious the IOI’s are a subconscious reaction to that. For instance a women finds a man attractive, she is aware she finds him attractive. She fiddles with her hair, glances and looks away quick etc etc … These are IOI’s. She is not conscious of her signaling in most cases unless of course she is familiar with IOI’s and making a deliberate attempt to lure you. These are basic IOI’s that do not indicate sexual attraction but basic attraction. You haven’t shared what IOI’s she has presented so we cant determine which it is. An IOI is not her telling you she wants a relationship though. So no she is not sexually attracted to you and unaware of it. From what I gather what she is saying is she is attracted to you in every other way except sexually. That is sometimes one component that a person wont compromise on so in the friend box you go. While TUTH can arouse her it cant make her aroused for you. There has to be a small amount of physical attraction present for it to enhance. There are many kinds of attraction. Often the opposite happens and people are sexually attracted but non compatible in every other way so they lack attraction on a intellectual or basic level. This is probably why the divorce rate is so high. It sounds to me like she is waiting for the whole package both sexual and intellectual attraction and she has been honest and is letting you down softly because she values your friendship and doesn’t want to risk losing it. People often misunderstand pheromones. They do not change peoples feelings. They enhance what already exists and make interaction easier. Think of them like the worm on a hook. You can throw your hook in the water and the fish wont even notice it and swim on by. Place a worm on it and suddenly it gets noticed and the fish will start to circle and pay attention. Tease them with that worm a little and they will go after it. However if the fish your after doesn’t like worms it will notice it and pass on by no matter how hungry it may be. Pheromones are not going to create sexual attraction where none exists. Now I don’t know your story and that is fine but I cant really tell you if its possible to change your situation around some other way and create sexual attraction without knowing it. In some cases it is possible. If however you fail to turn her feelings around sexually…My advice is to walk away because you dont want to settle for someone who is not sexually attracted to you unless you want to have sex for a while until your deeply commited in the relationship and then end up not getting any for long periods like often happens when sexual attraction is lacking. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![DevilJin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/258eb7/32.png) [@DevilJin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DevilJin)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/20 "2012-07-16T14:31:46Z")
> [@tisha23](#): > > Attraction is conscious the IOI’s are a subconscious reaction to that. > > For instance a women finds a man attractive, she is aware she finds him attractive. She fiddles with her hair, glances and looks away quick etc etc … These are IOI’s. She is not conscious of her signaling in most cases unless of course she is familiar with IOI’s and making a deliberate attempt to lure you. These are basic IOI’s that do not indicate sexual attraction but basic attraction. You haven’t shared what IOI’s she has presented so we cant determine which it is. An IOI is not her telling you she wants a relationship though. > > So no she is not sexually attracted to you and unaware of it. > > From what I gather what she is saying is she is attracted to you in every other way except sexually. That is sometimes one component that a person wont compromise on so in the friend box you go. > > While TUTH can arouse her it cant make her aroused for you. There has to be a small amount of physical attraction present for it to enhance. > > There are many kinds of attraction. Often the opposite happens and people are sexually attracted but non compatible in every other way so they lack attraction on a intellectual or basic level. This is probably why the divorce rate is so high. It sounds to me like she is waiting for the whole package both sexual and intellectual attraction and she has been honest and is letting you down softly because she values your friendship and doesn’t want to risk losing it. > > People often misunderstand pheromones. They do not change peoples feelings. They enhance what already exists and make interaction easier. > > Think of them like the worm on a hook. You can throw your hook in the water and the fish wont even notice it and swim on by. Place a worm on it and suddenly it gets noticed and the fish will start to circle and pay attention. Tease them with that worm a little and they will go after it. > > However if the fish your after doesn’t like worms it will notice it and pass on by no matter how hungry it may be. > > Pheromones are not going to create sexual attraction where none exists. > > Now I don’t know your story and that is fine but I cant really tell you if its possible to change your situation around some other way and create sexual attraction without knowing it. In some cases it is possible. > > If however you fail to turn her feelings around sexually…My advice is to walk away because you dont want to settle for someone who is not sexually attracted to you unless you want to have sex for a while until your deeply commited in the relationship and then end up not getting any for long periods like often happens when sexual attraction is lacking. > > Tisha The IOIs she gives off are a lot of hair play, making contact with me, like tapping me on my shoulder or other parts of my body when telling a story (is that down to the [P83](https://a314.com/product/p83/)?) and at times shifting a yard or two away from me in order to make most of her body face me. Mind you ive not seen much pupil dilation. She also has said that she wants more than just a friendship from me. Her sister has told me that she’s very much interested in me and has been for a while. To say that I’m confused would be an understatement. ---
**Author:** ![Centaur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Centaur](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Centaur)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/21 "2012-07-16T14:49:56Z")
I’m sticking to my original diagnosis. But one question.. she says she wants something more than friendship with you.. have you asked her what that might be? If she says that, do you try to get a kiss? I’m thinking of being around a girl who says she wants more than friendship.. I go in for the kiss at that point. If she backs away, I ask what’s going on. But usually, if a girl says she wants more, but stops short when I try to progress into something more, I can pretty much rest assured that its best to move on.. or game her hard. How exactly is it playing out when she says she wants something more? what do you do? what does she do? [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135.md?page=2)