# Crazy, Crazy IOIs but no attraction?! How? Help please? **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [July 15, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135 "2012-07-15T04:23:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DevilJin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/258eb7/32.png) [@DevilJin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DevilJin)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/22 "2012-07-16T15:39:10Z")
> [@Centaur](#): > > I’m sticking to my original diagnosis. But one question.. she says she wants something more than friendship with you.. have you asked her what that might be? If she says that, do you try to get a kiss? > I’m thinking of being around a girl who says she wants more than friendship.. I go in for the kiss at that point. If she backs away, I ask what’s going on. But usually, if a girl says she wants more, but stops short when I try to progress into something more, I can pretty much rest assured that its best to move on.. or game her hard. > How exactly is it playing out when she says she wants something more? what do you do? what does she do? She says that she wants a relationship with me but will only do the physical stuff and make it official when she feels that attraction. She sees me more than a friend but less than a boyfriend. Her sister has told me that she was talking about potentially dating me a month ago. I really don’t know what to even think anymore. I am usually very aware of girls who try to play you and have avoided that sort of situation very succcesfully up until now. The only reason why I’m even giving this a chance is given the fact that the bond that we have spans years and is really quite strong. Not to mention the fact that I’m very close to her family. Especially her sister and brother in law. ---
**Author:** ![Centaur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Centaur](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Centaur)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/23 "2012-07-16T15:50:28Z")
Yeah, I definitely stand by my theory that she is holding off.. more than likely for a better deal. That and the fact that she has known you for so long makes you “safe” and “comfortable”.. but safe and comfortable are physical attraction killers. Not if you already have a physical relationship, but yes if you don’t. In other words, you are in the friend zone and she is going to be very reticent about moving you out of that zone unless something dramatic happens. think about it.. she has your friendship guaranteed, she will see you one way or another, no matter what, due to the family connections. What will she gain by dating you? but she has alot to lose. It may not work out, she may end a friendship, she may look bad in front of her family if it doesn’t work out etc… You don’t sense that she is gaming you because she is not.. not in the typical sense. She is being sincere as she sees things. But YOU have to look at what is happening under the surface. A new guy, one whose newness make shim more exciting. Someone who is not connected to her by other means will be 2 things that spark attraction 1. novel and 2. mysterious. She has everything to gain by keeping you on hold, while hoping for someone new and exciting to come along. Because that familiarity she has with you can be an attraction and excitement killer. This really is obvious.. and the more you respond the more I am convinced that that is what is going on. My advice- stay friends and move on. Stay away from her for a while until you can truly come back to her with no interest. Otherwise, you will be wasting your time and selling yourself short. Take it from a 40yr old man who has seen it all.. almost 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DevilJin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/258eb7/32.png) [@DevilJin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DevilJin)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/24 "2012-07-16T15:59:47Z")
> [@Centaur](#): > > Yeah, I definitely stand by my theory that she is holding off.. more than likely for a better deal. That and the fact that she has known you for so long makes you “safe” and “comfortable”.. but safe and comfortable are physical attraction killers. Not if you already have a physical relationship, but yes if you don’t. > In other words, you are in the friend zone and she is going to be very reticent about moving you out of that zone unless something dramatic happens. think about it.. she has your friendship guaranteed, she will see you one way or another, no matter what, due to the family connections. What will she gain by dating you? but she has alot to lose. It may not work out, she may end a friendship, she may look bad in front of her family if it doesn’t work out etc… > You don’t sense that she is gaming you because she is not.. not in the typical sense. She is being sincere as she sees things. But YOU have to look at what is happening under the surface. A new guy, one whose newness make shim more exciting. Someone who is not connected to her by other means will be 2 things that spark attraction 1. novel and 2. mysterious. > She has everything to gain by keeping you on hold, while hoping for someone new and exciting to come along. > Because that familiarity she has with you can be an attraction and excitement killer. > This really is obvious.. and the more you respond the more I am convinced that that is what is going on. > My advice- stay friends and move on. Stay away from her for a while until you can truly come back to her with no interest. Otherwise, you will be wasting your time and selling yourself short. Take it from a 40yr old man who has seen it all.. almost 😉 I think you may just be right. I’m going to keep my options open and see where it leads me. If she’s attracted enough then she’ll do/say something about it, if she isn’t then that’s just the way it goes. The only reason why I wanted it to work out was because I knew just what I was getting with her and frankly I’ve got tired of dating girls who seem one way at first and then turn out to be completely different in the relationship, have had this happen to me with my last 3 exs, so I thought dating a friend would make a nice change, no nasty surprises. ---
**Author:** ![Centaur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Centaur](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Centaur)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/25 "2012-07-16T16:12:52Z")
Well… people always change in a relationship- its part of that magic when two unique individuals start a chemical reaction going.. you never know. Time changes people as well. I’ve shanged long term female friends into gfs many times, and its never what I expected. And they were, and are still, beautiful wonderful incredible women. Its the nature of things. Here is my one last peice of unsolicited advice- take it with a grain of slat, but realize it comes from someone experienced… You need to decide if this is what you want and go for it or not. A passive attitude will just lead to more of the same because you will not do anything to raise her attraction level, but will pull away enough to keep her raising the stakes. Its an endless cycle niether of you deserve. If you decide that you really want to do this, then go for broke. Take dramatic action. Not crazy dramatic, but more along the lines as I said in my earlier post. She has to see you in a NEW light. The old light will just lead to the same picture. If you decide to remain friends.. pull away anyway and tell her why. You are going to need space to get over her, because around her you will get pulled in again and again. My 2cents worth. Again, take it with a grain of salt.. best of luck to you! ---
**Author:** ![cjw255](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/45deac/32.png) [@cjw255](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/cjw255)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/26 "2012-07-16T21:10:05Z")
There is a quote about letting a girl go…and if she returns she was always yours and if she doesn’t it wasn’t meant to be. With the crap shes pulling that might be all you need to win her. Even if you pretend to become unavailable or tell her you’re going on dates you never went on. Jealousy is very powerful but obviously not the always smartest thing to play with. But yea those sound like backhanded compliments I don’t even know if i’d put up with that garbage haha. You have to remind yourself everyone once in awhile that there are BILLIONS of women out there to meet. ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/27 "2012-07-17T01:53:01Z")
> [@DevilJin](#): > > The IOIs she gives off are a lot of hair play, making contact with me, like tapping me on my shoulder or other parts of my body when telling a story (is that down to the P83?) and at times shifting a yard or two away from me in order to make most of her body face me. Mind you ive not seen much pupil dilation. She also has said that she wants more than just a friendship from me. Her sister has told me that she’s very much interested in me and has been for a while. > > To say that I’m confused would be an understatement. These are basic attraction signals which she has already told you she feels by indicating she wants to have a relationship. Thats a good thing its half the battle. > [@DevilJin](#): > > She says that she wants a relationship with me but will only do the physical stuff and make it official when she feels that attraction. She sees me more than a friend but less than a boyfriend. Her sister has told me that she was talking about potentially dating me a month ago. I really don’t know what to even think anymore. I am usually very aware of girls who try to play you and have avoided that sort of situation very succcesfully up until now. The only reason why I’m even giving this a chance is given the fact that the bond that we have spans years and is really quite strong. Not to mention the fact that I’m very close to her family. Especially her sister and brother in law. I dont agree she is holding out for a better offer. I really dont think she is playing you. She just doesn’t feel sexually attracted to you at this time. I do agree that Centuar is right in that as relationships progress they usually change to some extent so down the road she could begin to feel sexually attracted to you. Pheromones cant trigger what doesn’t yet exist though. Asking someone to wait until they feel it when there is no guarantee they ever will is unreasonable. If you want her you have to try to create some sexual tension here. She is probably so deep into the comfort zone with you because she has known you so long that she is afraid to come out of her comfort zone so your going to have to lead her out. I am not trying to be sexiest but thats what men do. Its sort of their “job” in the whole relationship dance. I know times have changed and our roles have progressed in many ways but those basic instincts that have been ingrained in us for centuries still exist. My guess is you have been the “gentlemen” so far because of your closeness to the whole family. Your gonna have to take the lead here. Ways to begin creating sexual tension. Body language Get in her space more, touch her more, (dont be a pig about it) hold eye contact with her when your both talking. Make it a habit to scan her body visually each time you meet each other. Make use of the “leading hand” If your walking together somewhere use your hand on her elbow or the small of her back to lead her. If your sitting together with no table to obstruct her view sit with your legs apart, facing her if possible, lay your hand on your thigh about 3 inches from your crotch. This pulls her eyes to that area and creates tension. This actually works remarkably well. Use other body language that indicates your sexually interested. You can look it up online they have lots of resources on it. Verbally Flirting and using innuendos Showing interest in other females may also bring her out of her safety zone. Jealousy is a powerful catalyst. You may even want to date and make sure she is aware of it. Remember that fishing story I told you in my other post. I don’t know if you fish. I am a country girl so I do. When does the fish bite ? When your slowly pulling the bait away from it. After you have done some of these things then try the pheromones on her and see if they ignite something. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![DevilJin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/258eb7/32.png) [@DevilJin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DevilJin)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/28 "2012-07-17T03:51:45Z")
> [@tisha23](#): > > These are basic attraction signals which she has already told you she feels by indicating she wants to have a relationship. Thats a good thing its half the battle. > > I dont agree she is holding out for a better offer. I really dont think she is playing you. She just doesn’t feel sexually attracted to you at this time. I do agree that Centuar is right in that as relationships progress they usually change to some extent so down the road she could begin to feel sexually attracted to you. Pheromones cant trigger what doesn’t yet exist though. Asking someone to wait until they feel it when there is no guarantee they ever will is unreasonable. > > If you want her you have to try to create some sexual tension here. She is probably so deep into the comfort zone with you because she has known you so long that she is afraid to come out of her comfort zone so your going to have to lead her out. I am not trying to be sexiest but thats what men do. Its sort of their “job” in the whole relationship dance. I know times have changed and our roles have progressed in many ways but those basic instincts that have been ingrained in us for centuries still exist. > > My guess is you have been the “gentlemen” so far because of your closeness to the whole family. Your gonna have to take the lead here. > > Ways to begin creating sexual tension. > > Body language > > Get in her space more, touch her more, (dont be a pig about it) hold eye contact with her when your both talking. > > Make it a habit to scan her body visually each time you meet each other. > > Make use of the “leading hand” If your walking together somewhere use your hand on her elbow or the small of her back to lead her. > > If your sitting together with no table to obstruct her view sit with your legs apart, facing her if possible, lay your hand on your thigh about 3 inches from your crotch. This pulls her eyes to that area and creates tension. This actually works remarkably well. > > Use other body language that indicates your sexually interested. You can look it up online they have lots of resources on it. > > Verbally Flirting and using innuendos > > Showing interest in other females may also bring her out of her safety zone. Jealousy is a powerful catalyst. You may even want to date and make sure she is aware of it. > > Remember that fishing story I told you in my other post. I don’t know if you fish. I am a country girl so I do. When does the fish bite ? When your slowly pulling the bait away from it. > > After you have done some of these things then try the pheromones on her and see if they ignite something. > > Tisha I’ve done most of the things you’ve mentioned tisha. I’ve done the physical contact, a ton of innuendo and have seen her get very jealous when I’ve made it clear that I want to date other females. Maybe it might just be a purely physical thing. Her last few exs have been heavily built guys, whereas I’m not. I thought that pheros like ammo were meant to make the wearer ‘sexier’? ---
**Author:** ![Centaur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Centaur](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Centaur)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 8:39am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/29 "2012-07-17T08:39:41Z")
DevilJin Walk away man. This is something that will never be good for you. If you have to do something other than being yourself, if she isn’t already excited by the thought of being with you.. then even if you “get” her, you will always feel insecure with her. It will harm your self esteem, which is something I see happening already to you. You are selling yourself short. I disagree with Tisha- this is already a game. It may unconscious or not- but its the very definition of a game. She knows you are attracted to her and feel for her. She says and acts like she is attracted. Then she pulls the rug out from under and says she’s not attracted enough.. but then gets jealous when you see other women… but then holds back on the physical…says she wants more.. but then doesn’t… All the while you are a FRIEND. Who treats a friend that way? Its disingenuous and hurtful. More importantly.. who puts up with that? Whatever her deal is.. I can guarantee you something. You deserve better. There are girls and women who will be hot for you, want you and open and honest with you. WOmen who aren’t into playing little kids games from junior high. They will also make you happier as a man. The only way to recover- as a man- your self worth here is to tell her, in no uncertain terms, that you deserve and expect better. That you have put up with enough mixed messages. In a month you’ll look back and ask yourself “what was I thinking!” ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 12:50pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/30 "2012-07-17T12:50:40Z")
> [@](#): > > I thought that pheros like [ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/) were meant to make the wearer ‘sexier’? Yes they do but they cant change a persons preferences as to what is sexy to them. For instance if a women likes men with dark hair and thats what turns them on sexually no pheromone in the world will change that preference. If this girl likes built men then thats her preference. Pheromones cant erase that. If pheromones were the only point of attraction then they could change your situation with her but they are just one point. There is compatibility… Shared beliefs and values Visual attraction, Personal preferences Physical attraction Chemistry, (pheromones) Intimacy (connecting on a deep level) Usually you need these 5 or some small part of each of these before sexual attraction kicks in. Its sounds like your compatible and share a deep connection but the middle three are missing and pheromones alone can’t fix that. Yes they can make you sexy, more interesting, more appealing but they cant change the preferences of others or they would work on every single person exposed to them even men. VERY IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER… Just because she is not sexually attracted to you doesn’t mean your not sexually attractive. It just means you don’t fall in with her preferences. > [@](#): > > I’ve done most of the things you’ve mentioned tisha. I’ve done the physical contact, a ton of innuendo and have seen her get very jealous when I’ve made it clear that I want to date other females. Maybe it might just be a purely physical thing. Her last few exs have been heavily built guys, whereas I’m not. Then you have done all you can and its time to let her go and actually do what you told her and date other women. Centaur is right and you deserve someone who is sexually attracted to you and respects your feelings enough to not leave you hanging like this. One last thing that may help you clear up the confusion you feel. I want you to think of someone who is close to you. Not related but someone you care for, get along with and feel close to. We all have a friend, coworker or acquaintance we are really fond of and care about but are not sexually attracted to. Next time you see them try to make yourself be sexually attracted to them. Its impossible. No matter how much you care, how compatible, how connected you cant create a feeling that just doesn’t exist for you. That’s where she is now. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![DevilJin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/258eb7/32.png) [@DevilJin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DevilJin)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/31 "2012-07-17T16:34:36Z")
> [@tisha23](#): > > Yes they do but they cant change a persons preferences as to what is sexy to them. > > For instance if a women likes men with dark hair and thats what turns them on sexually no pheromone in the world will change that preference. If this girl likes built men then thats her preference. Pheromones cant erase that. If pheromones were the only point of attraction then they could change your situation with her but they are just one point. > > There is compatibility… Shared beliefs and values > > Visual attraction, Personal preferences > > Physical attraction > > Chemistry, (pheromones) > > Intimacy (connecting on a deep level) > > Usually you need these 5 or some small part of each of these before sexual attraction kicks in. > > Its sounds like your compatible and share a deep connection but the middle three are missing and pheromones alone can’t fix that. Yes they can make you sexy, more interesting, more appealing but they cant change the preferences of others or they would work on every single person exposed to them even men. > > VERY IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER… > > Just because she is not sexually attracted to you doesn’t mean your not sexually attractive. It just means you don’t fall in with her preferences. > > Then you have done all you can and its time to let her go and actually do what you told her and date other women. Centaur is right and you deserve someone who is sexually attracted to you and respects your feelings enough to not leave you hanging like this. > > One last thing that may help you clear up the confusion you feel. > > I want you to think of someone who is close to you. Not related but someone you care for, get along with and feel close to. We all have a friend, coworker or acquaintance we are really fond of and care about but are not sexually attracted to. Next time you see them try to make yourself be sexually attracted to them. Its impossible. No matter how much you care, how compatible, how connected you cant create a feeling that just doesn’t exist for you. That’s where she is now. > > Tisha > [@Centaur](#): > > DevilJin > Walk away man. This is something that will never be good for you. If you have to do something other than being yourself, if she isn’t already excited by the thought of being with you.. then even if you “get” her, you will always feel insecure with her. It will harm your self esteem, which is something I see happening already to you. You are selling yourself short. > I disagree with Tisha- this is already a game. It may unconscious or not- but its the very definition of a game. She knows you are attracted to her and feel for her. She says and acts like she is attracted. Then she pulls the rug out from under and says she’s not attracted enough.. but then gets jealous when you see other women… but then holds back on the physical…says she wants more.. but then doesn’t… All the while you are a FRIEND. Who treats a friend that way? Its disingenuous and hurtful. > More importantly.. who puts up with that? > Whatever her deal is.. I can guarantee you something. You deserve better. There are girls and women who will be hot for you, want you and open and honest with you. WOmen who aren’t into playing little kids games from junior high. > They will also make you happier as a man. > The only way to recover- as a man- your self worth here is to tell her, in no uncertain terms, that you deserve and expect better. That you have put up with enough mixed messages. In a month you’ll look back and ask yourself “what was I thinking!” Thanks you two. I told her flat out today that I’m now going to be seeing other women, at which point she said that the thought of me being with another woman would kill her. To which I told her that me dating other girls will not affect our friendship and that we will continue to be friends and hang out. If she changes her mind one day and says she wants a relationship and I’m single at that point, then we’ll give it a go, if not, then tough luck to her. She had her chance and missed it. ---
**Author:** ![Turbo2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cab0a1/32.png) [@Turbo2](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Turbo2)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/32 "2012-07-20T21:16:08Z")
That’s a great start, see how she’s trying to control u but not giving u anything in return! I would be dating others make her jelious and not be so available to her, don’t be her emotional tampon either ---
**Author:** ![SWE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@SWE](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SWE)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135/33 "2012-07-24T15:34:17Z")
> [@DevilJin](#): > > Thanks you two. I told her flat out today that I’m now going to be seeing other women, at which point she said that the thought of me being with another woman would kill her. To which I told her that me dating other girls will not affect our friendship and that we will continue to be friends and hang out. > > If she changes her mind one day and says she wants a relationship and I’m single at that point, then we’ll give it a go, if not, then tough luck to her. She had her chance and missed it. Good for you, man. You did the right thing. I just went through a similar experience myself. You’re better off in the long run, now _you_ are in control whereas before she was running the show. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/crazy-crazy-iois-but-no-attraction-how-help-please/56135.md?page=1)