# Daedelus' journal **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Journals\ **Created:** [May 31, 2008, 2:16am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297 "2008-05-31T02:16:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![denec](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/denec/32/1730_2.png) [@denec](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/denec)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 5:23pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/141 "2008-08-05T17:23:19Z")
> [@Phya](#): > > I Given a world conducive to walking around..Imagine the entire USA as Manhattan, NY. It’s impossible to drive there, even if you want. People walk all over the place, but it’s not exactly the most enlightened place in the world. believe it or not i know people who still drive to work…it is expensive costs $20 a day to park, and you have to deal with traffic galore, but some people cannot stand the public transportation, though I am not sure why. I love the public transportation except late at night, it is great time to meet people though our public transportation needs a major overhaul, several times this year we got flooded and everything stopped in NYC, it was only from a few inches of rain, only because they have not kept up with the maintenance, they supposedly do not have the money, but keep raising the fares every year, oh i can go on and on, meanwhile our taxes are through the roof ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/142 "2008-08-05T17:59:37Z")
> [@denec](#): > > believe it or not i know people who still drive to work…it is expensive costs $20 a day to park, and you have to deal with traffic galore, but some people cannot stand the public transportation, though I am not sure why. I love the public transportation except late at night, it is great time to meet people > > though our public transportation needs a major overhaul, several times this year we got flooded and everything stopped in NYC, it was only from a few inches of rain, only because they have not kept up with the maintenance, they supposedly do not have the money, but keep raising the fares every year, oh i can go on and on, meanwhile our taxes are through the roof Oh, I believe it. Obviously there are still a LOT of people driving to work. That’s part of the reason why it’s practically impossible to drive to work in NYC. 😛 Though I hesitate to presume it’s a good place to meet people. I rode the train for 2 hours a day to school and back and I never really met anyone. Everyone kinda shuts off into their own world, burned out from their day, or chatting with someone they’re carpooling with like a co-worker or someone. I have met a couple people, usually they’re kinda shady or not really people I want to talk to again.. Maybe NYC is different though. I’d assume it’s even less conducive of an environment to meet strangers on the subway. ---
**Author:** ![denec](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/denec/32/1730_2.png) [@denec](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/denec)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/143 "2008-08-05T18:14:55Z")
> [@Phya](#): > > Oh, I believe it. Obviously there are still a LOT of people driving to work. That’s part of the reason why it’s practically impossible to drive to work in NYC. 😛 > > Though I hesitate to presume it’s a good place to meet people. I rode the train for 2 hours a day to school and back and I never really met anyone. Everyone kinda shuts off into their own world, burned out from their day, or chatting with someone they’re carpooling with like a co-worker or someone. I have met a couple people, usually they’re kinda shady or not really people I want to talk to again.. > > Maybe NYC is different though. I’d assume it’s even less conducive of an environment to meet strangers on the subway. Actually it depends upon which part of the public transportation system you are on. If you take just the regular NYC subway and on it for like 5-15 min more then likely not, everyone usually shuts down in their virtual world and packed like sardines. But if you are like me and take the metro commuter rail road where you are on there for one hour or more and everyone has a seat sort of like an airplane, you get to sit next to this person and have an opportunity to meet, and many times see the same people day in and out. They even have party cars where after work people hang out and drink and smoke(illegally in between the cars) with same people, it is a lot of fun! Great time to wind down from the stressful job! ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/144 "2008-08-05T20:44:30Z")
> [@denec](#): > > Actually it depends upon which part of the public transportation system you are on. If you take just the regular NYC subway and on it for like 5-15 min more then likely not, everyone usually shuts down in their virtual world and packed like sardines. > > But if you are like me and take the metro commuter rail road where you are on there for one hour or more and everyone has a seat sort of like an airplane, you get to sit next to this person and have an opportunity to meet, and many times see the same people day in and out. They even have party cars where after work people hang out and drink and smoke(illegally in between the cars) with same people, it is a lot of fun! Great time to wind down from the stressful job! Oh that’s cool! I didn’t know about the commuter rail. Back in HS we’d hijack a car or two and party! Prom was a big one.. Sounds like fun.. BTW, Daedelus, you might wanna give this a read. It’s pretty relevant to the whole…legal thing we were talking about. You should get what I mean when you read it. It’s a little tangential, but whatever. > [@solzhenitsyn harvard address](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/solzhenitsyn-harvard-address/16930/1): > > [Solzhenitsyn’s Harvard Address](http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/solzhenitsyn/harvard1978.html) ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Daedelus76](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Daedelus76)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2008, 2:38am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/145 "2008-08-06T02:38:29Z")
> [@Phya](#): > > BTW, Daedelus, you might wanna give this a read… OK, just understand the past few days… I have done alot of reading. It might take me a bit to re-read that and grasp it all. Actually, I have been trying to go light on the reading. Alot of ideas in my head, it can take some time to sort through them all. ---
**Author:** ![data4](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/data4/32/272_2.png) [@data4](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/data4)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2008, 2:53am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/146 "2008-08-06T02:53:20Z")
Oops… Sorry about that, Daedelus. Looks like I posted in the wrong journal. 😃 I’ll see if Tisha can move it over to mine. -D4 ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Daedelus76](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Daedelus76)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2008, 3:02am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/147 "2008-08-06T03:02:25Z")
> [@data4](#): > > Oops… Sorry about that, Daedelus. Looks like I posted in the wrong journal. 😃 I’ll see if Tisha can move it over to mine. > -D4 That’s not a problem for me. Things happen, expect the unexpected 🙂 On a side note, I should probably just say a caution about that Neuro-Programmer stuff. Don’t listen to too much Gamma, I think it causes some wierd stuff (and the Neuro-Programmer has a caution on it as well). Sort of “Kundalini Syndrome” or “Relaxation Induced Anxiety”. My head is full of ideas from stuff I’ve read, and integrating them has been a bit of a problem, and I haven’t slept so well. It also seems very fatiguing mentally, it really does seem also to cause you to burn extra calories- I’ve lost some weight without exercising, also it does raise your body temperature a little compared to delta waves (which make your hands cold, it seems). Actually, I have been toning down the use of that stuff today and yesterday, today I didn’t listen to any at all, I just did regular type meditation. So, that’s why I’ve been trying to take things easy, not read too much heavy stuff. I’m developing a bit of “yogi mind” (not necessarily a good thing). I think trying out the biofeedback machine will be OK, since I won’t be forcing anything into my head. It does seem that the pulse tones are much more aggressive than binaural beats, and biting off too much at once is not a good idea. Oh yeah, and I wore Ammo today along with my WAGG. Even though my mind has been full of ideas, I seemed to do OK. ---
**Author:** ![data4](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/data4/32/272_2.png) [@data4](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/data4)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2008, 3:39am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/148 "2008-08-06T03:39:47Z")
I’ve read about that Kundalini thing, and I have to admit, it interests me from a dabbler’s perspective. Whether the phenomenon is real or some sort of psychosomatic thing is hard to say. All the information I’ve read on it is so wrapped up in religious packaging that I’m not sure it’s something I want to pursue. What are your thoughts on it, if you don’t mind my asking? -D4 ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Daedelus76](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Daedelus76)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/149 "2008-08-06T04:32:00Z")
Kundalini, from my understanding, is like psychic energy, mental energy, human potential. It no doubt has physical correlates that Western science could understand. Kundalini is envisioned as a coiled serpent inside the body that can be liberated through various meditation techniques and unlock human potential and realize higher Self or “godhood”, in Hinduism. In Advaita Vedanta, a dominant theology in Hinduism, all humans have God as their nature, but they don’t realize it due to delusion (traditionally, it was attributed to the goddess Maya- goddess of illusion). Having a wrong view of God, though, can lead to delusion, at least according to Hindu thought, so again, kundalini type practices are considered somewhat esoteric, because it’s possible for a person to drive themselves insane, or delude themselves, by being exposed too much information, or incorrect information. It could become a big “ego trip” or “melt your brain”, so to speak. Some researchers have noticed that when yogis are asked to create kundalini energy, there is a large spike in gamma waves in the brain. Gamma waves are usually assosciated in normal people with intense experiences or feelings (I almost wonder if [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/) doesn’t produce gamma waves, I wish I had the money for an EEG machine, or I’d try it). The goal of Hatha Yoga, BTW, is through physical exercises and mental discipline, to awaken kundalini, and later “God Realizaiton”, though this is seldom taught in Western yoga classes. Kundalini Yoga is just a term to distinguish the spiritual practice from the secular practice. There is a similar concept in Tibetan Buddhism, involving such things as energy winds (rlung) that are harnessed in the practice of “tummo”: “inner heat” (candali in Sanskrit). I’m sure you’ve heard of Tibetan monks sitting out in the snow, half naked, and are kept warm through some esoteric means. The practice is actually not a cool parlor trick, but to generate intense feelings of compassion or “willpower”. It’s a tantric practice, and traditionally was not taught until a person had reached a certain level, because it can have negative consquences if “mis-used”. Sort of like playing with fire, that sort of thing. And of course in many other forms of Buddhism, such as Theravada or some Mahayana schools, there are meditations where a person is to imagine themselves becomming compassion, like a flame that spreads outward and envelopes everyone with warm heat. I don’t know exactly what sort of waves are produced, but it’s probably gamma waves, maybe some alpha wave activity too. I really would like to try out an EEG machine one of these days, but the cheapest ones are at least $500 dollars. I’d be curious to know exactly what my brain is doing. My advice Data, is I don’t think you should pursue it right away, even if you think it sounds interesting. You seem to be dealing with depression, perhaps having some bitter feelings, and it might mess with your head and make things worse (BTW, I don’t pretend to have a “kundalini awakening”, just that I believe that gamma waves can produce some of the same feelings, such as intense energy, focus, or expansive thinking). Usually in Hinduism and Buddhism, in schools that practice such things, they focus on the Bramaviharas first, which are attributes that should be cultivated to have an appropriate sense of self- compassion, appreciation/joy, love (maitri- similar to philia / agape in Greek), and equanimity or tolerance/forebearance. My own personal feeling, a great deal of interest in kundalini yoga is done by hucksters and people peddling snake oil, and people wanting easy answers to difficult matters. India is full of “Godmen”, from what I have read. These are the equivalent of Jerry Fallwell or Oral Roberts. They go around impressing people with parlor tricks and claim to have realized their god nature, etc., yet usually they have skeletons in their closet, live lavish lifestyles, and usually are not very well read, etc. BTW, when I said “yogi mind”, that means, tending to think about things alot, intellectualize things, get caught up in details. That’s how my head has felt in the last few days. ---
**Author:** ![jahmani](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jahmani/32/5172_2.png) [@jahmani](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jahmani)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/150 "2008-08-07T22:13:00Z")
> [@Daedelus76](#): > > One can even have gratitude to inanimate objects, machines, and so forth. This gratitude is acknowledgement and humility before _the power of the universe that created all things_ (aka God, Great-Spirit, etc.). Yoga Sutra III, 35 By the practice of samyama on the spiritual heart, complete knowledge of the mind, its vacillations, and the whole range of one’s thought is given. * * * John 3:6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. * * * Yoga Sutra III, 52 Even when the highest celestial beings admire you, you should once again avoid attachment and the resulting pride, because of the potential for the revival of the undesirable. * * * Frithjof Schuon writes about the Lakota rites of the Sacred Pipe (The Feathered Sun): “…to use a Sufic expression, ‘the Sage is not created’; it is only in illusion that man is a volume cut out of space and isolated in it: in reality he ‘is’ that space and he must ‘become what he is,’ as the Hindu Scriptures say…” * * * Once you accept YOUR spirituality, you will find peace of mind. Best wishes on your journey. ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Daedelus76](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Daedelus76)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/151 "2008-08-08T03:34:14Z")
Hello everybody. Today I got the biofeedback Lightstone machine and the Wild Divine game. I had problems installing it on my main Windows X64 machine, so I installed in on an older XP machine that is downstairs hooked up to a TV. It runs fine. Me and my brother played it some. My brother thought it was a bit cheesy but he eventually got into some of it. I had a really hard time with the pinwheel, I couldn’t get it to move much. The program told you to breathe in a certain way, but when I did it, it didn’t move quite right. I had my brother try it out and he got it to move much more easily. OTOH, there’s this other mini-game where you can get these balls juggling in the air, and I had better luck at that, and my brother had a harder time. All you had to do was focus on energetic feelings, or crack jokes that make you laugh (I had a little bit of trouble at first, then I started imagining something noisy or intense, like a jackhammer, roller coaster, or heavy metal music, and the balls started going off the screen). I also tried concentrating on “not” making the balls move around, just to see if I could do it. My brother had trouble getting the balls to go very high, he just didn’t “get” it so much. There’s also a scene where you go into a building and Nawang Khechog tells you to try to get some birds to swarm around in bigger circles by being “calm”, and also a ballon that goes up and down depending on how alert you are- too high and it bursts, too low and it burst. Those weren’t too hard to do. Also, there are elevator minigames, when you step into an elevator you have to increase your “energy” to go up, which is similar to the bouncing ball game, but you have to keep that mental state long enough for the elevator to keep going up. OTOH, we were both stumped by this one mini-game where you are suppossed to light a fire by having a “calm” mind and breathing, breathing in for seven seconds, and breathing out. I suspect eventually I could probably have lit the fire, but it could have taken a long time to get that kind of mental state. Update: I got the Lightstone working with the MindWorkstation on my main PC, though Wild Divine won’t run, it won’t recognize the device on my X64 PC upstairs. I also finally got the fire lit playing it downstairs, although the way I ended up having to breath was a bit unusual for me, I felt almost like I was hyperventillating. Aparrently the game also uses heartrate variability for some of the mini-games. I have a slightly heart murmur, so maybe that effects it a little, or it could just be I’m not used to that kind of breathing. I played Wild Divine for a few more hours. It’s an OK game but it’s a bit Myst like. Which means if you don’t have alot of time, Healing Rythms would probably be a better choice to get down to business. I may order just the CD version of that to try out, since I already have the IOM biofeedback device. I think it’s well worth the money, though clearly this device is aimed more at stress reduction, it’s very fun to use. Interestingly enough, some of those minigames where you have to use energy to make the balls or elevators go up, seem to give me a mild headache after a while. I’ve heard that some types of mental training can produce electrolyte imbalances, so maybe that’s a cause. I also got a little graphing program from Sourceforge that hooks up to the device, I may try using some pheromones like [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/) and see what they do to skin conductivity. Caffeine has a rather large effect on skin conductivity, a few hours ago it was 2.4 and I had drank a cup of coffee about 20 minutes before and was feeling a bit of a caffeine buzz, now I can get it to about 1.5-1.8. The interesting thing was I actually feel more alert now, so I don’t believe the biofeedback stuff corresponds so much to mental state as much as it does to a body state affected by the mind No pheromones for today, though. Oh, and those are interesting quotes, Jahmani. I have heard of Alan Watts but I haven’t read enough of his ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Daedelus76](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Daedelus76)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 10:07am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/152 "2008-08-08T10:07:20Z")
I did a sample recording using the Lightstone Monitor, for about 14 minutes. During the time period, I meditated. No pheromones, just sitting on the floor in a half-lotus position, I burned some agarwood incense, and I tried to focus just on the breath and if my thoughts wandered, I tried to focus on the space between the thoughts and not to be attached to the thoughts themselves. I also used several “body scan” techniques early in the meditation. Starting off, the skin conductance value (SCL) was 1.7, and after three minutes it rose to about 2.2. At the end of the meditation (14 minutes), it was 3.44, with a maximum value of 3.77 during the session. The heartrate values were more variable. There were several places where the heartrate increased slightly, other places where it decrease slightly. My breathing patterns changed slightly, perhaps that was a reason. ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Daedelus76](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Daedelus76)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 1:05pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/153 "2008-08-08T13:05:23Z")
I tried out the biofeedback machine with some meditation earlier, I’m not sure I’m ready to test out [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/), I need to get a good feel for the machine first. Skin conductance can vary alot depending on the situation. If you are wearing alot of clothing, your hands will sweat more, etc. I did confirm, though ,that meditation will lower skin conductance slightly, I got it to go from about 2 to about 1.4, and that was only in about 3 minutes. The heartrate variability (HRV) I am less familiar with, but it’s another thing the device can measure. It has something to do with ayurveda or hatha/kundalini yoga, the heart chakra, based on reading the message boards for Wild Divine/LightStone. It seems to be increased by positive emotional energy and certain breathing techniques. Caffeine will also increase it. I noticed that listening to beta wave monaural beats lowered it, too. There is also research, according to the manual, that higher HRV leads to lower cardiac death and better immune system health. Incidentally, if you want to know what alot of the biofeedback stuff is like, it’s very much like the “There is no spoon” scene in The Matrix. Like with the balloon going up and down, you see it, but at the same time, you have to _not_ see it. You can’t be attached to what the balloon is doing, if it goes up, worrying will just make it worse, for instance. If you are doing good and you get excited, that makes it worse too. It’s not too hard for me (granted, it’s not necessarily simple for me), but it might be a good challenge for somebody that’s a type-A kind of person that has no experience with such things. ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Daedelus76](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Daedelus76)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2008, 7:22am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/154 "2008-08-09T07:22:08Z")
OK, here’s my test of [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/) and biofeedback. Baseline skin conductance was 2 micro-ohms. I applied Instant Shine, 2 sprays. 10 minutes after application, the conductivity was 2.25 - 2.4 micro-ohms, and heartrate increased 8 beats per minute. Heartrate variability (HRV) had peaks and troughs, but was essentially unchanged. After 20 minutes, skin conductivity was back to around 2, and heartrate was normal. HRV was also normal. Honestly, it could have been the cover scent more than anything affecting the results, since I’ve noticed that some odors will sometimes slightly increase the skin conductance. I think the evidence points to Instant Shine contributing a very small amount to nervous system arousal, although so far the effect seems very transient. I’ll have to test it again some other time. Also, I have some background in meditation and biofeedback, so that could affect the results as well. Subjectively, I feel slightly more alert, but also calm. ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Daedelus76](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Daedelus76)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 9:16am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/155 "2008-08-14T09:16:44Z")
I tried out TAK monitoring the skin response (SCL) and heartrate variability, running for 30 minutes. Using 12.5mcg, there was no change in skin response to any significant degree, and maybe heartrate variability coherence decreased a few percentage points, but it would be hard to say for sure. Perhaps I will repeat this in the future. I can tell TAK is doing something subjectively, though, but it’s not really affecting the numbers all that much. I finished the Wild Divine game, at least the major “quests”, as well. It was not that hard for me although due to the layout of the game, unless you get a map, it can take a while to finish it. Also, I found the higher energy events more challenging than the low-energy events. I am currently working with the “sister” program, Healing Rythms, and also I have Wisdom Quest (sequel) to play later if I want. The sequels introduce difficulty levels, and Healing Rythms is more “textbook” style. I’m finding Healing Rythms is a little bit more “academic”, even a touch sterile, but they both are OK programs. Also, I have been experimenting making soap. Nothing fancy yet, just melt and pour soap that I scented. I wanted to get a scent similar to nag champa, so I used sandalwood and plumeria, and a few other ingredients. I have some surplus soap, I’ll probably just give it to my mom to give away. ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Daedelus76](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Daedelus76)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 3:23pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/156 "2008-08-14T15:23:48Z")
Something I noticed when not wearing pheromones… people may not be taking me as seriously. This weekened my dad came home like he usually does, and we got into a bit of an arguement about something. I did not want to argue, but he insulted some viepoints people may have, so I felt like mildly correcting him and offering an alternative view, but he jumps in and accuses me of all sorts of stuff after the conversation continued, simplely for saying that I felt less “attached” to many things I used to think were important to me, now I see them differently, and have a different perspective, they aren’t as intrinsic to my happiness, and some of them may be somewhat less important than other things in my life. He accuses me of being an “extremist”, and “simple minded” (he didn’t know I was into meditation and reading alot of books on spirituality, he just thought I was only listening to binaural beats and burning incense), and won’t even give me time to explain myself. In the end, I just didn’t want to argue with him or be angered or anything like that, but it was rather sad some of the things he said, which obviously were designed to hurt my feelings in some way. I get the feeling somehow, something caused him to feel uncomfortable with my behavior or speech, perhaps some fear he sees in himself. The weekend before last, he thought I was cool, but this last weekend, he was on my case that one day because he didn’t like what I said. My dad is very materialistic, not very religious/spiritual anymore (he has never been, really) and I think he’s somewhat disappointed in me, and doesn’t really want to understand anything about my viewpoint. I am not disappointed in myself, so he should not be disappointed in me, but I think he is on some level. I’m grateful for the stuff I have in my life (even grateful for some of the painful feelings and experiences I have endured, because I can look back and see them leading to where I am today). I don’t understand the anger or frustration from my dad, but I suppose he cannot see things from my perspective. Or perhaps he’s uncomfortable talking about it. He judges everything in terms of money and costs (he’s an accountant, and he lets that define him, I guess), and lives to work, rather than works to live. He’s a type A personality, and always sees the trees of small details rather than the forest, being a typical accountant. I also am a bit of an “idealist”, I think people should try and live in accordance with their values as much as possible, and that some things are indeed worth more than money or the “costs”. My dad doesn’t seem to have any ideals anymore, other than making money and being angry at things he cannot change too often, and not seizing on the things he can change. He is also far too given to unhelpful mental states, such as judgement, anger, and even hate, which I think are just bad to cultivate towards anyone or anything, especially recently. I think it’s almost time for me to move out, honestly, but I’m not sure how to do it. I get along with my mom OK, but at some point, people can grow apart. I don’t hate my dad, but he doesn’t see things the way I do, and it isn’t pleasant to have my views and experiences belittled. Maybe I should wear pheromones in such a situation. It just slipped my mind last sunday. ---
**Author:** ![renny](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/renny/32/2104_2.png) [@renny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/renny)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 5:25pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/157 "2008-08-14T17:25:29Z")
Hey Daedelus, reps for the biofeedback tests keep 'em up that’s really interesting stuff. You might post 'em up in the main forum when you’ve got some consistent/comparative results…or maybe you already have…I can’t keep up with this place anymore LOL. ---
**Author:** ![bosshank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@bosshank](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bosshank)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 6:12pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/158 "2008-08-14T18:12:05Z")
It can be very hard when your views and values start diverging from your parents. It takes a lot of maturity on both sides to see it for what it is - a normal part of human intellectual/emotional/spiritual growth. It can be all the much harder when the values grow radically different - as in your becoming more religious/spiritual and your father defining everything in terms of money and “cost”. All I can say is hang in there. And maybe it is time to establish your financial and living space independence. ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Daedelus76](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Daedelus76)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/159 "2008-08-14T18:46:16Z")
Hello Renny… yes I may post more results of testing various pheromones, though I might run out of TAK to do a complete test, and it may take a week or more to get a good feel for some of the subtleties. Also, the software I have doesn’t really output the heartrate variability (HRV) into a file format to review later, it stores the raw heartbeat data and the skin conductance levels every second. I did not fully explain heartrate variability, I think I understand it much better now based on playing around with it more in the game and also using graphing software. HRV in the manual is explained is slightly scientific, slightly new-age terms. Higher HRV is related to a more positive attitudes and better immune response, and less heart attacks. The game presents it as the “heart breath” (breath in to the count of 5, breath out to the count of 5), but it is taken from Yoga (I take their word for it, I’ve never done yoga) and is similar to some forms of Buddhist practice (explained later). Normal heartrate variability is 20 or more beats per minute between inhale and exhale, or about 120-150 SDNN (really complex formula based on standard deviation). Sick people, and people with beta blockers or packemakers will have a little more difficulty with HRV. Also, HRV is effected alot by even small amounts of stress hormones- adrenaline tends to cause the heart to beat in a regular, controlled, and hard fashion (as Deepak Chopra says in one video that came with the game software, like soldiers marching, and you can really see this on the graphing software). My brother (whom I’ve spoken about before) tried a heart breath event and finally just gave up after 8 minutes, even though he was breathing, following the instructions very carefully (he didn’t play the whole game, and seemed to take a curious, if cynical attitude- I was running the game downstairs as it doesn’t run on my own computer- the other games in the series do, however). OTOH, I got through the same event in only a minute, and using the grapher software I have gotten HRV SDNN up to 255. At those high levels, it produced a very light, warm feeling all over, and you get a fluttery feeling in your chest, similar to the heart palpitations you can sometimes get when you are enthusiastic about something, only it lasts a while afterwards (most game biofeedback events require less than 160 SDNN variability). The games (Wild Divine and Healing Rythms) give you instructions to focus on feelings of compassionate intent and openness, and it does seem to effect the results quite a bit, if you focus on that. In this regard it is similar to the Buddhist _tonglen_ meditation which is focused on being less self-centered, or “ego-cherishing” (and also involves breathing and intent) - that’s how I managed to get the HRV so high. If you don’t focus on it so much, you can still get the HRV up, but it takes longer, and if you have too much negativity in you, you apparrently will have a _very_ hard time getting the HRV up (For some reason I am reminded of the Egyptian Book of the Dead, where the heart is weighed against a feather to judge a person’s worthiness…). It’s also possible, throught practice, to entrain the heart to beat with a higher HRV. Here’s an article on clinical research on heartrate variability and health effects: [Research: Science of the Heart](http://www.heartmath.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28&Itemid=51&limit=1&limitstart=8) The only downside… the IOM biofeedback devices use an infra-red optical sensor, like an optical mouse to measure HRV. If your hands are cold, it’s harder to get a good reading on bloodflow and the signal is weak and prone to breakup. Also, any bumping will disturb the sensor for a few seconds. The skin conductane sensors are rock solid in reliability, though. However, they tend to work best if you hands aren’t too warm (this is also how a lie-detector works). Some kinds of meditation or “energy lowering” excersises can make your hands cooler, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Daedelus76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Daedelus76](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Daedelus76)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297/160 "2008-08-14T19:12:29Z")
Bosshank, yes I will have to move out some time, although here’s is a dilema. I think some of the values I am acquiring, may make it harder to operate in the “real” world", the world of stories, assumptions, archetypes, scripts, etc. All the things that people assume are real, but are only real inasmuch as somebody believes them. Does that make any sense? The values are almost 180 degrees from values that many people would admit to espousing. Some of those values are the _seemingly_ total opposite of “self-esteem” and confidence, it transcends those concepts, and it could indeed seem eccentric, odd, or even weak I suppose to other people. I don’t know, maybe it plays out different in that “real world”, what do I know 🙂 It’s also important to have enough time for yourself, so you can keep cultivating yourself in the right way. I’m grateful for the time I have free to read, study, meditate, and think, and I would hate to have to sacrifice it all just to be a minimum wage slave. If I get a job, it needs to be somewhere it matters and is congruent with my values, if possible. (and, this is another reason why working long hours for money isn’t that great of an idea, it takes away from other parts of your life). Well, honestly I don’t hate money (now days, people need a certain amount of it to live), or “materialism”, but it’s such an empty philosophy to live only to make more and more money, to put yourself through misery simply to obtain more and more of it… to what end? In many religious and spiritual traditions, ultimately, since happiness is not really all that dependent on external things, you should use your resources to transform reality (or unreality, or Emptiness, or what have you) into one where everyone can be happy, to live harmoniously with other people, and to not cause harm or suffering. Those are all potentially higher values than money: money should serve those ends. I think, if pheromones could help me get along with my dad, I should keep wearing them for no other reason, and not to forget. But, I should probably start thinking about what I want to do now as well. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297.md?page=7) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/daedelus-journal/13297.md?page=9)