# Design a double-blind study **URL:** \ **Category:** Pheromone Theory & Molecules\ **Created:** [January 9, 2007, 6:13pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/design-a-double-blind-study/1484 "2007-01-09T18:13:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nbully79](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c68b51/32.png) [@nbully79](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/nbully79)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 6:13pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/design-a-double-blind-study/1484/1 "2007-01-09T18:13:45Z")
Given our long experience with [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/shop/) in real life, many users with more than 5 years , some even 10 years, how about we put our heads together and design a double-blind experiment which will satisfy the scientific minds as well as regular users. I know it’s a very difficult challenge, given the myriad factors involved. But, let’s not say ‘nay’ before we begin. Let’s give this a fair try. The aim is to prove that ‘pheromones will work in real-life situations to enhance the attractiveness of people to members of desired sex with the right dosage and in the right context’. I hope to see what you guys think about how we can make this possible. ---
**Author:** ![Comitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Comitz](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Comitz)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2007, 7:43pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/design-a-double-blind-study/1484/2 "2007-01-09T19:43:57Z")
Well…I don’t have the heavy experience that a lot of you all have, I am a baby when it comes to this. However, what if the newbie gift was a set of 2.5 ml’s of random things like IS and [Instant Jerk](https://a314.com/product/instant-jerk/) ect. but with a placebo scent every other bottle (out of four or five)(instead of the $15 gift certificate). The instant jerk would fail the ‘attraction’ part of the proposed study, but the proof side? Just thinking out loud. ---
**Author:** ![AKmedic](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/akmedic/32/1487_2.png) [@AKmedic](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/AKmedic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 2:52am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/design-a-double-blind-study/1484/3 "2007-01-10T02:52:55Z")
> [@Comitz](#): > > Well…I don’t have the heavy experience that a lot of you all have, I am a baby when it comes to this. However, what if the newbie gift was a set of 2.5 ml’s of random things like IS and Instant Jerk ect. but with a placebo scent every other bottle (out of four or five)(instead of the $15 gift certificate). > > The instant jerk would fail the ‘attraction’ part of the proposed study, but the proof side? Just thinking out loud. Double-blind means that even the researchers who are “in the trenches” working with the test subjects don’t know if they’re applying the “real thing” or a placebo. The idea is that nobody knows who got the placebo until after the study is completed. I don’t think that he’s proposing we actually get out there and set up a study, because that’s not within our reach. We’d need some type of clinical facility to conduct the research … university research facilities at a minimum. Are you asking if a bunch of folks on an internet message board could engineer a better clinical study than what clinicians and scientists have been able to do so far? Putting together such a study is half the job. Anyway, there are no end to “double blind” studies with sample groups of 20 people or so… like the ones that have been done for benefit of companies that sell [pheromone products](https://a314.com/shop/) like the Athena Institute ([Psychiatric Journal Reports Human Pheromones may Play Beneficial Role in Sexual Therapy and Reproductive Health](http://www.athenainstitute.com/10xstudy.html)). I don’t know about you…but I don’t know anything about the “hard sciences” or putting together large-scale longitudinal studies with a sample size that numbers in the hundreds or thousands. The only familiarity that I have with a clinical study is from when my identical twin sister and I were part of a longitudinal 7-year genetics twin study when we were children that was conducted by a major research university near where we lived. Even as tiny children we didn’t mind giving blood samples or having MRI scans because we got paid for each part of the study we participated in. 😛 I imagine that the same would be true of most test subjects. ---
**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 3:03am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/design-a-double-blind-study/1484/4 "2007-01-10T03:03:44Z")
I do think we have the ability to design a workable study program that is scientifically defensible. I suspect that one study would be insufficient, and if it was sufficient, would be so large as to be infeasible. But perhaps we could come up with a **design** for a series of studies. I’m impressed with the [t shirt study](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-women-rate-the-sexiness-pleasantness-of-a-mans-body-odor-on-genetic-similarity/108), for example, as a modestly scoped but productive experiment. And reasonable to duplicate the experiment to validate results. The goal would be to design (and refine and polish) a very grounded, parsimonious, and economic study with high objectivity and scientific validity. Of course, it might take us a while, heh! ---
**Author:** ![nbully79](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c68b51/32.png) [@nbully79](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/nbully79)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 7:37pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/design-a-double-blind-study/1484/5 "2007-01-10T19:37:45Z")
Thanks Mark! I believe we have the ability too, not me exactly but as a collective whole we do. So far all the double-blind studies based on pheromones published in peer-reviewed journals or conferences all show serious lack of knowledge about the real world use of pheromones. For one thing they don’t mention dosing at all and we all know how important that is. Every study on androstenone suggests that women hate the smell and are able to tolerate it near ovulation. What dose? We don’t want women to be consciously smelling pheromones anyways. OD is obviously repelling. I think a properly designed study should reflect atleast our common findings (about dosing, time to take effect, distance of influence etc) in a more controlled environment. It doesn’t matter if we can’t perform the study ourselves (although many of us are in a University environment and working on some kind of research too) but hopefully it will point someone, who has the resources to do so, in the right direction. > [@MarkL](#): > > I do think we have the ability to design a workable study program that is scientifically defensible. > > I suspect that one study would be insufficient, and if it was sufficient, would be so large as to be infeasible. > > But perhaps we could come up with a **design** for a series of studies. I’m impressed with the [t shirt study](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-women-rate-the-sexiness-pleasantness-of-a-mans-body-odor-on-genetic-similarity/108), for example, as a modestly scoped but productive experiment. And reasonable to duplicate the experiment to validate results. > > The goal would be to design (and refine and polish) a very grounded, parsimonious, and economic study with high objectivity and scientific validity. > > Of course, it might take us a while, heh! ---
**Author:** ![nbully79](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c68b51/32.png) [@nbully79](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/nbully79)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 7:42pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/design-a-double-blind-study/1484/6 "2007-01-10T19:42:51Z")
> [@AKmedic](#): > > Are you asking if a bunch of folks on an internet message board could engineer a better clinical study than what clinicians and scientists have been able to do so far? Putting together such a study is half the job. The only thing which distinguishes the common folks here from the scientists is that we have real world experience. I would like to see our knowledge being incorpoarted in a well designed study. And I suspect many users here may have such backgrounds as well. > [@AKmedic](#): > > Anyway, there are no end to “double blind” studies with sample groups of 20 people or so… like the ones that have been done for benefit of companies that sell pheromone products like the Athena Institute ([Psychiatric Journal Reports Human Pheromones may Play Beneficial Role in Sexual Therapy and Reproductive Health](http://www.athenainstitute.com/10xstudy.html)). The methods used by Cutler for her studies has been much maligned among her peers. They help to sell her products (which is by some accounts quite complex and very good) but the study itself left a lot to be desired. ---
**Author:** ![snowy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58f4c7/32.png) [@snowy](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/snowy)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 1:06am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/design-a-double-blind-study/1484/7 "2007-01-12T01:06:14Z")
One way to do this would be using speed dating or singles parties. Researchers would make variouse [pheromone](https://pheromonelabs.com/shop/) cocktails and a placebo with an indentical scent and give them to other their colleages only labeled by a number and whether they are intended for male or female use. The ignorant researchers would then apply them to participants before they started speed dating. The results would be the difference between the average number of date requests of a pheromone wearer versus a placebo wearer. Obviously the more participants the more statistically significant the results but I imagine about 100 participants would be good enough for the standard psychology 95% statistical significance test. This lacks the scientific validity of brainscans ect but has more real world validity. This would be cheap to do as lots of people already do speed dating, I imagine most people would be prepared to take part just for a free ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Rbt](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/rbt/32/2066_2.png) [@Rbt](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Rbt)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 6:54pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/design-a-double-blind-study/1484/8 "2007-01-12T18:54:54Z")
I’ve only tried the speed dating thing once, and I’m not sure there is enough “exposure” time to affect anyone but the one wearing the product. Maybe different next time I try. I find it generally takes about 10 to 15 minutes for any effects to come out and manifest themselves. We only had about 3 to 4 minutes so it was pretty muc all in the “personality” and presentation. Pheromones may indeed have a rather immediate effect on the body, but the brain takes a while to process it. ---
**Author:** ![nbully79](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c68b51/32.png) [@nbully79](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/nbully79)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:11pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/design-a-double-blind-study/1484/9 "2007-01-12T20:11:53Z")
> [@Rbt](#): > > I’ve only tried the speed dating thing once, and I’m not sure there is enough “exposure” time to affect anyone but the one wearing the product. Maybe different next time I try. I find it generally takes about 10 to 15 minutes for any effects to come out and manifest themselves. We only had about 3 to 4 minutes so it was pretty muc all in the “personality” and presentation. Pheromones may indeed have a rather immediate effect on the body, but the brain takes a while to process it. Is their any mingling allowed prior to the actual event? ---
**Author:** ![Rbt](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/rbt/32/2066_2.png) [@Rbt](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Rbt)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 2:31am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/design-a-double-blind-study/1484/10 "2007-01-13T02:31:47Z")
> [@nbully79](#): > > Is their any mingling allowed prior to the actual event? In the one case I participated there was a “general gathering” before things started but it was in a room that had been used for a presentation beforehand so it was full of chairs in rows. I, of course, started interacting ASAP with a nice looking young lady seated behind me (for about 10 minutes). Had a pretty good convo going. By the way, I went in prepped with a couple sprays of IShine and IOpenness (neck and upper chest, arms), and a small small spritz if Androtics 2.5 Androstenone (lower chest). However after the thing _actually_ started all the females were told to go to another room, and us guys just basically waited by ourselves. Unfortunately I didn’t get a chance to pair up with the girl I had been chatting up already… It was a pretty disorganized event. Was this outfits first attempt and they were sorta in the dark as to how to really do it. I approached it primarily as an experiment to see what it was like and test a few conversation starter ideas. Now that I have a tiny bit of experience hope to give it another go later this year. There don’t seem to be any such events near where I live.