# Discussion-Alpha vs bad-boy **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [December 23, 2009, 9:33am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041 "2009-12-23T09:33:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![nikefredo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9bcb4/32.png) [@nikefredo](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/nikefredo)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/42 "2009-12-26T18:24:12Z")
million dollars… As with any natural talent you can’t just be good at whatever without any practice I.e. Hitler in office talking to thousands of ppl. So to anwser ur ?.. There are so many factors there is NO way you can pick out only a few such as mones ---
**Author:** ![meow333x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@meow333x](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/meow333x)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/43 "2009-12-26T18:26:20Z")
> [@nikefredo](#): > > ok I’ve been reading this for some time and I have some input. Hitler, was a born leader. Since he was young he was always able to become the ‘ring leader’. There are many things that affect hiw he came into power. Mones IMO had no effect or vary little effect. Note that this was also in germany (were small things like bread cost as much as 1 m what’s a m? meter? no seriosly i think you guys are really screwing yourselfs up by defining alpha male as the leader of a group. if you take the most beta male in a group and slap a backstage pass around his neck, he’s gonna rise to group leader awfully fast. leadership is a symptom not a cause. try this…imagine someone deserted on an island and try to describe him as an alpha or beta. if you can’t do that then you’re just describing external influences. ---
**Author:** ![andrew88777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@andrew88777](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/andrew88777)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/44 "2009-12-26T18:31:03Z")
“why men love prostitutes” I am at work! Do not want that page showing on my search history! Will check it out later though. I have not done a lot of reasearch on this, but Napolean was also the same way… a born leader. However, I think that it is natural, as well as enviornmental factors that all make the difference in Alpha status. You can think you are Alpha all you like, but you have to be able to back that status up. Mindset or no, someone will always be better than you. They are always wanting to prove it as well. TSA checkpoints are a PITA! My wife gets stopped everytime. Something about her sets them off LOL. Going to and even coming home from Jamacia she got stopped and harrassed. I don’t think she looks like a drug runner or terrorist, I guess they do though 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sillykitty](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/sillykitty/32/1574_2.png) [@Sillykitty](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Sillykitty)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/45 "2009-12-26T18:33:37Z")
> [@meow333x](#): > > also you guys are describing external qualities, like how people act, posture, group dynamics etc. understand that alpha beta are all mental attitudes. you can be alpha or beta stranded by yourself on an island. > > as far as becoming alpha man, that’s a whole different can of worms Yes, but that is what makes you alpha or beta to others. If it is only inside your head, but not communicated through your actions and behaviors, then it is not truly alpha or beta. Can you imagine an alpha guy who won’t meet people’s eyes, is afraid to speak first and has poor posture? In order to really be a certain way, you need to practice it first. An example of this would be smiling. Studies have shown that if one makes the smiling action with one’s mouth, even if they do not feel happy, that physical movement will actually transmit to the person’s mind and they actually start to feel happier. Actions really do speak louder than words. ---
**Author:** ![andrew88777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@andrew88777](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/andrew88777)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/46 "2009-12-26T18:33:47Z")
> [@meow333x](#): > > leadership is a symptom not a cause. So you are saying that it is only someones mindset that makes them Alpha/Beta. Nothing more? ---
**Author:** ![andrew88777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@andrew88777](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/andrew88777)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/47 "2009-12-26T18:36:14Z")
That was my point here too 🙂 > [@Sillykitty](#): > > Yes, but that is what makes you alpha or beta to others. If it is only inside your head, but not communicated through your actions and behaviors, then it is not truly alpha or beta. > > Can you imagine an alpha guy who won’t meet people’s eyes, is afraid to speak first and has poor posture? In order to really be a certain way, you need to practice it first. An example of this would be smiling. > > Studies have shown that if one makes the smiling action with one’s mouth, even if they do not feel happy, that physical movement will actually transmit to the person’s mind and they actually start to feel happier. Actions really do speak louder than words. ---
**Author:** ![meow333x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@meow333x](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/meow333x)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/48 "2009-12-26T18:49:22Z")
> [@andrew88777](#): > > So you are saying that it is only someones mindset that makes them Alpha/Beta. Nothing more? yup 🙂 you got it! a lot of it has to do with conquering your fears but i don’t wanna get into that. behaviors can be faked. a beta male making intense eye contact just comes off as creepy. smiling makes you hippy. you get the point. last nite i went clubbing, went up to one of the hottest girls. she was being friendly and flirty but her boyfriend was standing right next to her. this dude was giving me the “death” eye contact and his posture was rigid as hell. i was like seriously? and ignored him. ---
**Author:** ![Sillykitty](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/sillykitty/32/1574_2.png) [@Sillykitty](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Sillykitty)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/49 "2009-12-26T18:56:32Z")
Yes, but someone who is actually making the effort to externally display slpha qualities has a much better chance of being perceived as alpha than someone who does not. Practice makes perfect, it really does. If you can’t walk the walk, it doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![meow333x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@meow333x](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/meow333x)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/50 "2009-12-26T19:08:47Z")
> [@Sillykitty](#): > > Yes, but someone who is actually making the effort to externally display slpha qualities has a much better chance of being perceived as alpha than someone who does not. > > Practice makes perfect, it really does. If you can’t walk the walk, it doesn’t count. meh better is relative. also you’re speaking from a woman’s perspective. if you really wanna hammer this, there’s just too many subconsious things out of your control. you can learn to make eye contact, but your facial muscles would give you away. that dude that the club, that’s what he was trying to do..act the part…but something about it didn’t seem right to me, that’s why i blew him off. ---
**Author:** ![andrew88777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@andrew88777](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/andrew88777)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/51 "2009-12-26T19:08:48Z")
So going with prev examples… If a man is fat, and goes into a gym with my mindset (believed it in his heart) that he is Alpha, do you think others would percieve him as such? Or if some ripped dude went to a debate and he could not debate as well as everyone else, would he be perceived as Alpha? Or a dumb jock? I get the conquer you fear stuff. > [@meow333x](#): > > yup 🙂 you got it! a lot of it has to do with conquering your fears but i don’t wanna get into that. behaviors can be faked. a beta male making intense eye contact just comes off as creepy. smiling makes you hippy. you get the point. > last nite i went clubbing, went up to one of the hottest girls. she was being friendly and flirty but her boyfriend was standing right next to her. this dude was giving me the “death” eye contact and his posture was rigid as hell. i was like seriously? and ignored him. ---
**Author:** ![meow333x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@meow333x](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/meow333x)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/52 "2009-12-26T19:14:21Z")
> [@andrew88777](#): > > So going with prev examples… > > If a man is fat, and goes into a gym with my mindset (believed it in his heart) that he is Alpha, do you think others would percieve him as such? > > Or if some ripped dude went to a debate and he could not debate as well as everyone else, would he be perceived as Alpha? Or a dumb jock? > > I get the conquer you fear stuff. whoa that was deep. i dunno man. i believe in the power of your mind. but also believing that you can shit gold bricks wont ever make it true. ---
**Author:** ![jvkohl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jvkohl/32/1297_2.png) [@jvkohl](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jvkohl)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/53 "2009-12-26T19:19:01Z")
> [@andrew88777](#): > > So you are suggesting that someone could possibly be “alpha” of a group, depending on the enviornment they are in? … > Would that mean that you cannot always be an Alpha? > Also I will check the book out. Hopefully available from amazon 🙂 The environment is the most critical factor. You cannot always be the alpha, because your environment changes. (the book is available from amazon). The Biblical story of David and Golliath comes to mind, because David’s environment changed when he eliminated Golliath from it. This discussion seems to be racing away from the concept of pheromonal communication and status, which is my area of some expertise. My expertise extends a mammalian model of behavior to human behavior, and it does not include much psychological theory. That means that when we start thinking about cause and effect (i.e., on hormones), we’re beyond thinking about the biology of genetically predisposed reactions to stimuli from the social environment, like pheromones. And once we’re beyond thinking of pheromonal cause and affect (e.g., on behavior), I’m out of my league. Thus, there are too many factors to think about when it comes to alpha status. On the other hand, when you base your thoughts on what you can readily observe in non-human animals, and already know that alpha status is due to pheromones in other animals, it should not be too difficult to understand why some people think we’re not like other animals, and why others know that we are–at least when it comes to the biology of animal behavior. Whether I’m trained in martial arts, public speaking, or anything else, I am more likely to be alpha because that training makes me more confident, and there is a naturally produced scent associated with confidence (one that contains metabolites of adrenal hormone production that are not associated with stress, as opposed to metabolites that are associated with stress). It is the stress-related pheromone production that signals other mammals of your “pack” status. Once you have mastered more survival skills than others in your pack, you are the alpha male. Switch to another pack, and your status probably will change along with subtle changes in your scent signature. James V. Kohl > **[Pheromone Cologne and Perfume for Men and Women | Pheromones](https://www.pheromones.com/)** > > Scented and unscented pheromone colognes and perfumes. Over 20 years in business, free U.S. shipping, and a 60-day money-back guarantee. ---
**Author:** ![meow333x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@meow333x](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/meow333x)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/54 "2009-12-26T19:41:02Z")
> [@jvkohl](#): > > My expertise extends a mammalian model of behavior to human behavior, and it does not include much psychological theory. i think you just pointed out the achilles heel to your research. what separates humans from the rest of the animal kingdom is their cognitive processes (psychology). extending a mammalian model to describe human behavior though relavant is not all encompassing. i think that an anthropological model based on survival and needs would be more relavant. yes all animals have survival mechanisms. human being diverged from the branch of live because of their cognitive processes(mainly). it’s our huge brain that allowed us to survive when so many other species went extinct. now evolution went to some great lengths to give us this huge brain…to ignore that would be like having a theory with a hole in it big enough for someone to drive a truck thru. ---
**Author:** ![andrew88777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@andrew88777](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/andrew88777)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/55 "2009-12-26T19:51:47Z")
Nice thoughts from every one again 🙂 I agree that enviornment does seem to play a large factor in Alpha status. What you are saying falls in line, with what I am trying to understand. It is natural ie. pheromonal as well as enviornmental as well. I am under the idea that humans are similar to animal in responses. What you say makes sense when you feel competent you tend to BE competent. Which would in turn affect your pheromonal signature at that moment. You state “there is a naturally produced scent associated with confidence (one that contains metabolites of adrenal hormone production that are not associated with stress, as opposed to metabolites that are associated with stress).” So there are certain pheromones that appear to signal a confident mind state. I assume there are many that mixed together make up your “pheromone signature”. Do you know what ones are most prevelent in this scent? meow333x – this does match what you are saying, I feel you. Your mind is very powerful. However I think its is more than that. ---
**Author:** ![allstarmvp256](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/allstarmvp256/32/1867_2.png) [@allstarmvp256](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/allstarmvp256)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/56 "2009-12-26T19:56:24Z")
Very good thread I enjoy read about all of this but heres my input… As far as the Alpha Male goes, a friend of mine showed me an ebook called How To Be an Alpha Male by John Alexander. He explained that the reason as of why women love bad boys is because they take her through a “roller coaster” of emotions. Women love to feel highs and even the lows of relationships. Even though they might feel like they are treated like crap at one point, the bad boy still will figure out how to make her laugh and smile again. The difference (In my opinion) between a bad boy and an Alpha in relationships is quite simple…Bad boys provide the highs and lows for emotions and Alphas provide most of the highs and very little of the lows. They know how to treat a women correctly without appearing beta and make her laugh and feel protected without coming across as a jerk. I believe that a person can be an alpha wherever they go…It is a way of life and the way they carry themselves. Even if they are performing an action that they aren’t native to doing, they won’t be afraid to fail. Alphas don’t care what people think because they have their own mindset and only follow HIS reality,not others. You can’t be Alpha in one place and be a beta somewhere else, that is not a true Alpha. He will figure out whatever he can do to stay on top or close to the top. When a beta fails, he is bombarded with negative thoughts like “I suck at this” or “I hope I never do this again” while an alpha will just calk it up to experience and move on with his life. Lastly, I believe that one CAN learn the true traits of an Alpha Male through affirmations (programming your brain to believe a certain statement). Your brain is a POWERFUL mechanism in which if a statement is repeated over and over, it can come into reality. That is how habits are formed and why they are so tough to break (Because your brain set up a 30 foot barbed wire fence around you beliefs). This is why Betas look upon alphas with awe and wish that they were them but fail when they put fourth the effort to change. They shoot themselves down with negative self-talk and that is why they are not as successful as alphas. If a person has confidence, traits like body language and eye movement will come naturally, and therefore will be more alpha. thanks for reading, -Nate- ---
**Author:** ![meow333x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@meow333x](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/meow333x)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/57 "2009-12-26T20:00:01Z")
> [@andrew88777](#): > > Nice thoughts from every one again 🙂 > > I agree that enviornment does seem to play a large factor in Alpha status. What you are saying falls in line, with what I am trying to understand. It is natural ie. pheromonal as well as enviornmental as well. > > I am under the idea that humans are similar to animal in responses. What you say makes sense when you feel competent you tend to BE competent. Which would in turn affect your pheromonal signature at that moment. > > You state “there is a naturally produced scent associated with confidence (one that contains metabolites of adrenal hormone production that are not associated with stress, as opposed to metabolites that are associated with stress).” So there are certain pheromones that appear to signal a confident mind state. I assume there are many that mixed together make up your “pheromone signature”. Do you know what ones are most prevelent in this scent? > > meow333x – this does match what you are saying, I feel you. Your mind is very powerful. However I think its is more than that. just take something you can use in the real world and try it. you’re good at that. fuck what anybody says including me. if something works for you it just does, if it doesn’t then try something else. ---
**Author:** ![andrew88777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@andrew88777](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/andrew88777)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/58 "2009-12-26T20:10:37Z")
> [@meow333x](#): > > just take something you can use in the real world and try it. you’re good at that. fuck what anybody says including me. if something works for you it just does, if it doesn’t then try something else. Agreed 🙂 I want to know what it takes to make everyone successful. Alpha people are obviously successful so a good model to go from. People here are smart and are thinkers, they want to create change by doing, not sitting around wishing. I thank you all for that 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jvkohl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jvkohl/32/1297_2.png) [@jvkohl](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jvkohl)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/59 "2009-12-26T20:14:37Z")
> [@andrew88777](#): > > You state “there is a naturally produced scent associated with confidence (one that contains metabolites of adrenal hormone production that are not associated with stress, as opposed to metabolites that are associated with stress).” So there are certain pheromones that appear to signal a confident mind state. I assume there are many that mixed together make up your “pheromone signature”. Do you know what ones are most prevelent in this scent? Your assumption is correct, the “confident mind state” is signaled by pheromones. That’s one reason your less likely to be bitten by an aggressive dog, if you are not fearful. I won’t mention the pheromones most prevalent in the scent associated with confidence, since that would tend to equate with marketing a product, and I would rather focus on the science. James V. Kohl [scentoferos.com](http://scentoferos.com) ---
**Author:** ![andrew88777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@andrew88777](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/andrew88777)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/60 "2009-12-26T20:22:08Z")
I have experienced that as a child there was a white german sheperd that bit many neighborhood kids. I did not get bit it, the one time it approached me, it smelled my hand and walked away. I have never been bit by any animal actually. LOL I understand not marketing a product 🙂 > [@jvkohl](#): > > Your assumption is correct, the “confident mind state” is signaled by pheromones. That’s one reason your less likely to be bitten by an aggressive dog, if you are not fearful. I won’t mention the pheromones most prevalent in the scent associated with confidence, since that would tend to equate with marketing a product, and I would rather focus on the science. > > James V. Kohl > [scentoferos.com](http://scentoferos.com) ---
**Author:** ![jvkohl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jvkohl/32/1297_2.png) [@jvkohl](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jvkohl)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041/61 "2009-12-26T21:03:18Z")
Any anthropological model based on “survival and needs” must incorporate its biological basis (e.g., the biological basis of the need for food choice and of mate choice that is required for species survival). Food choice and mate choice are both functions of chemistry—as perceived (e.g., odors), or not (e.g., pheromones). Instead, anthropological models tend to dismiss evolutionary developmental biology, and skip to behavior, which means there’s no animal model. For example, anthropologists can tell us about love from a uniquely human perspective. We think love is…. But then the anthropologists back-track, and tell us about how certain hormones present in other species probably alter our behavior in the same manner they alter the behavior of other animals that don’t fall in love. That’s why I have stressed the fact thatno model is consistently used in the scientific study of human sexuality. A consistent mammalian model (i.e., my model) links olfactory/pheromonal input from the social environment to hormonal influences on sexual behavior and helps to reduce disparate findings and debate over inconsistent results from studies of human sexual behavior. The inconsistent results frequently come from an anthropological perspective that examines adult sexual behavior without the contextual development from an evolutionary developmental biology approach. The Achilles heel of every other discipline is their inability to explain non-heterosexual attraction. Homosexual behavior, whether expressed or considered, obviously negates the “humans are primarily visual creatures” attitude, and relegates thought processes about who and what characteristics should attract us to status of lesser importance than the biology (genetically predisposed, hormone-driven) of our behavior. Your commonly held perspective (perhaps largely based on social science studies) is falling prey to remarkable advances in neuroscience, which do not include speculation as to how or why this or that is important to survival and needs. Simply put, if it were not important, it wouldn’t be part of a neuroscientific (brain-based) explanation. For example, neither visual input nor love is part of any neuroscientific explanation for human sexual behavior. See, for example: Kohl, J. V. (2007). The Mind’s Eyes: [Human pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/), neuroscience, and male sexual preferences. In M. R. Kauth (Ed.), _Handbook of the Evolution of Human Sexuality_ (pp. 313-369). Binghamton: Haworth Press. This article/book chapter won the Ira and Harriet Reiss Theory Award for 2007, which is given annually for the best social science article, chapter, or book published in the previous year in which theoretical explanations of human sexual attitudes and behaviors are developed. If the model therein had an Achilles heel, I think that someone would probably have mentioned it. Philosophically, however, people are free to expound upon how we are different from other animals. It’s nice that we have the ability to think about such things, but thought processes are not required to meet any survival need of any species on this planet. James V. Kohl `http://www.pheromones.com` > [@meow333x](#): > > i think you just pointed out the achilles heel to your research. what separates humans from the rest of the animal kingdom is their cognitive processes (psychology). extending a mammalian model to describe human behavior though relavant is not all encompassing. > i think that an anthropological model based on survival and needs would be more relavant. > > yes all animals have survival mechanisms. human being diverged from the branch of live because of their cognitive processes(mainly). it’s our huge brain that allowed us to survive when so many other species went extinct. now evolution went to some great lengths to give us this huge brain…to ignore that would be like having a theory with a hole in it big enough for someone to drive a truck thru. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041.md?page=2) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/discussion-alpha-vs-bad-boy/35041.md?page=4)