# England has a new president **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [November 5, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536 "2008-11-05T19:42:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mark-in-dallas](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mark-in-dallas/32/860_2.png) [@mark-in-dallas](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mark-in-dallas)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 6:28am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/21 "2008-11-10T06:28:09Z")
Well, I’ve been a conservative all my life, and I still think Bush should be impeached and tried for treason, if not murder! Our military and their lives are **NOT** fucking pawns for him to play with! And, never mind how he ignored domestic issues, lied to us over and over, thought of himself as the supreme dictator of the world, and let the economy go to shit. ---
**Author:** ![chads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2acd7d/32.png) [@chads](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/chads)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/22 "2008-11-10T19:17:43Z")
I think Clinton was impeached because he lied under oath. Perjury is an extremely serious crime as no justice system can function if everyone can lie with impunity. Clinton did cut taxes and reform welfare which did help the economy. I don’t think Bush lied. He never said Iraq was involved in 911 only that they supported terrorism, which is a fact. Everyone has different opinions on foreign policy. Some people prefer a defensive posture where you are just concerned with your own security. The problem with that is as your allies gradually fall you are left standing alone. In my opinion Iraq stems from Carter’s poor handling of Iran. Iran was a pro-western democracy and the majority of it’s people still are pro-western. Women had the right to vote, work, get an education etc. When Iran fell to Muslim fundamentalists due to Carter’s inaction it left a huge hole in the Middle East which allowed anti-western sentiment to ferment. In Carter’s defense communism was by far the more serious threat. However, it is a good long term strategic move to have a strong democracy in Iraq which may even encourage Iran to return to democracy. If that were to occur the world be a much safer place especially if it were to occur before Iran has nuclear arms. Now you may not think that the price paid for this is worth it and that is certainly your right. I personally believe in a more proactive foreign policy approach. I have found if you sit back and let problems build up they only get worse. ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/23 "2008-11-10T21:06:34Z")
> [@chads](#): > > I think Clinton was impeached because he lied under oath. _Perjury is an extremely serious crime as no justice system can function if everyone can lie with impunity._ Clinton did cut taxes and reform welfare which did help the economy. > > **I don’t think Bush lied. He never said Iraq was involved in 911 only that they supported terrorism, which is a fact.** > > Everyone has different opinions on foreign policy. Some people prefer a defensive posture where you are just concerned with your own security. The problem with that is as your allies gradually fall you are left standing alone. > In my opinion Iraq stems from Carter’s poor handling of Iran. Iran was a pro-western democracy and the majority of it’s people still are pro-western. Women had the right to vote, work, get an education etc. When Iran fell to Muslim fundamentalists due to Carter’s inaction it left a huge hole in the Middle East which allowed anti-western sentiment to ferment. > In Carter’s defense communism was by far the more serious threat. However, it is a good long term strategic move to have a strong democracy in Iraq which may even encourage Iran to return to democracy. If that were to occur the world be a much safer place especially if it were to occur before Iran has nuclear arms. > Now you may not think that the price paid for this is worth it and that is certainly your right. I personally believe in a more proactive foreign policy approach. I have found if you sit back and let problems build up they only get worse. See, this is why I mentioned my lack of political understanding. I don’t know what Carter did, nor what impacts it might have today. I’m sure the impact of his actions are far reaching, just as the impact of the Treaty of Sèvres and how they split up the conquered territory has far reaching impact today. I can’t say much about the Carter business. However, Bush lied too. He lied several times, again and again. In fact he still lies. Our justification to invade Iraq was, as you said, not based on an association with 9/11, but because he was linked to terrorism – specifically, he was supposed to have weapons of mass destruction. Where are those WMDs now? Right, it was a lie, an outright lie. I understand what you mean about Clinton lying and committing perjury. I forgot he had that whole under oath. Yes, one lying president is as bad as another. But at least one lied about a sexual act and the other is lying about the deaths of thousands. If anyone can lie and get away with it, yes our justice system won’t be able to function. How about our constitution? If anyone can just go in and change it around, saying ‘it’s just a piece of paper’, then how can our Constitution function? I’m just saying, this guy went above and beyond. Perhaps in a way, it’s down to a lesser of two evils. A guy that got a blow job and lied about it. Or a guy who, along with his friends, made billions of dollars of this war, spent billions of dollars in tax money on the war, and committed war crimes while lying about it..Hell, as far as I’m concerned, his original election was a set up. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Eldros](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/eldros/32/279_2.png) [@Eldros](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Eldros)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 11:23pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/24 "2008-11-10T23:23:13Z")
> [@Phya](#): > > However, Bush lied too. He lied several times, again and again. In fact he still lies. Our justification to invade Iraq was, as you said, not based on an association with 9/11, but because he was linked to terrorism – specifically, he was supposed to have weapons of mass destruction. Where are those WMDs now? Right, it was a lie, an outright lie. [American Thinker: The 550 Tons of Yellowcake](http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/07/the_550_tons_of_yellowcake.html) ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 11:42pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/25 "2008-11-10T23:42:54Z")
> [@Eldros](#): > > [American Thinker: The 550 Tons of Yellowcake](http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/07/the_550_tons_of_yellowcake.html) Thanks, I wasn’t aware of that. But if we really wanna take it that direction, it could be said that he had the capacity to produce WMDs, but did not actually have realized weapons. Even then it’s a little doubtful he had the resources, technological or otherwise, to actually build these weapons. Then again, maybe he did. Either way, the weapons were not found. You don’t invade a country because they _could_ do something. If that’s the case, the whole world should invade the USA because we’ve got hundreds of WMDs, and we _could_ do something with them. I’m sure there are holes in my argument, but opinion remains that Bush was not looking out for the interests of the American people. Sorry, I know he was your governor. It’s okay, mine’s not that sharp either (Sorry Auhnuld.) ---
**Author:** ![mark-in-dallas](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mark-in-dallas/32/860_2.png) [@mark-in-dallas](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mark-in-dallas)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 12:34am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/26 "2008-11-11T00:34:20Z")
I’m with Phya. Bush looks out for nobody but himself. And, FYI bush did claim that Saddam aided and or funded Osama, and that was his initial justification for escalating hostilities with Iraq. I’m not a politician, nor schooled in theology or appraised on matters of national security, but even I had the sense to realize his allegations that Saddam aided and or provided financing to Osama were bold faced lies! Saddam was pretty liberal for a Muslim, and Osama and his backers are radical right wingers. Osama couldn’t have accepted any sort of assistance from Saddam and remained true to his beliefs, and those he fostered among his financiers and others. We are now fighting the same radicals that Saddam was tried and put to death for murdering, and we have killed far more of them than Saddam ever did. The difference was that Saddam understood that the only way to reason with extremist radical suicidal maniacs and keep the peace was the threat that if they attacked or attempted to attack, he would not only put them to death, but their entire village as well. Bush believed in the american democracy and the will of the american people so much that he had his daddy intervene for him and have the Supreme Court halt the counting of ballets. The Courts decision in effect invalidated the election and made him the first president in our history to be appointed to office by the Supreme Court, rather than elected to office. I wonder, are you aware that while Bush was still the Governor of Texas and just starting his presidential campaign, that a convicted murderer who was sitting on death row, after spending 19 years in prison, was proven innocent by way of DNA testing, and that the actual murderer was already in prison? Are you aware that Bush refused to exonerate the wrongful conviction and release this innocent man, and that he was not released from prison for well over a year after DNA evidence proved him innocent, and until after Bush was inaugurated president? I believe that act speaks mountains for how much Bush cares about the american people, the Constitution, and our Bill of Rights. ---
**Author:** ![Mtnjim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mtnjim/32/2010_2.png) [@Mtnjim](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mtnjim)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/27 "2008-11-11T01:18:56Z")
Ya, what he said. Additionally, several former members of his cabinet have said that in his first cabinet meeting, one of the subjects was how could we get Sadam. ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/28 "2008-11-11T02:09:28Z")
> [@mark-in-dallas](#): > > I wonder, are you aware that while Bush was still the Governor of Texas and just starting his presidential campaign, that a convicted murderer who was sitting on death row, **after spending 19 years in prison, was proven innocent by way of DNA testing, and that the actual murderer was already in prison?** > > Are you aware that **Bush refused to exonerate the wrongful conviction and release this innocent man** , and that he was not released from prison for **well over a year after DNA evidence proved him innocent** , and until after Bush was inaugurated president? WHAT?! How is this possible? I would think that as a judge, if I was presented with DNA evidence indicating a man was innocent after 19 years, I would at least put him in the fast lane for release. Not another whole year. **This is prison guys, not fucking day care.** In that year, an innocent man has definitely been put in compromising situations that could put him in jail for longer, when he should never have been put in that situation to begin with. Let’s not even begin with the 19 unwarranted years of imprisonment…that man has such patience. Where would you be if you left society for a whole two decades? Geez… Honestly, some people really just don’t try and even pretend to walk in another man’s shoes. ---
**Author:** ![chads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2acd7d/32.png) [@chads](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/chads)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 2:42am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/29 "2008-11-11T02:42:46Z")
Even Hillary Clinton said on the floor of the Senate," Saddam has given aid, comfort and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of Sept. 11, 2001" Hillary lied, kids died? There are many reports of al Qaeda and Saddam being on friendly terms. ---
**Author:** ![chads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2acd7d/32.png) [@chads](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/chads)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 2:54am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/30 "2008-11-11T02:54:48Z")
Do you have a link to the death row story, I can’t find it. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/31 "2008-11-11T03:26:20Z")
> [@chads](#): > > Even Hillary Clinton said on the floor of the Senate," Saddam has given aid, comfort and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of Sept. 11, 2001" Hillary lied, kids died? > > There are many reports of al Qaeda and Saddam being on friendly terms. I don’t know what you’re indicating with that quote from Hillary? Are you inferring that Hillary is as just as much of a liar as Bush? It’s just not clear for me. There are also many reports of the Bush family being on friendly terms with the Bin Laden family. I guess that means we should invade the Bush palaces as well in the name of the War on Terrorism? ---
**Author:** ![Eldros](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/eldros/32/279_2.png) [@Eldros](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Eldros)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 3:48am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/32 "2008-11-11T03:48:19Z")
> [@chads](#): > > Do you have a link to the death row story, I can’t find it. Thanks. there’s more than one instance of this happening, and no, not all under bush. and of course bush would have to wait till he was president, otherwise. . . he wouldn’t have that power. . . and all good politicians suck. my vote goes to the bad politician. ---
**Author:** ![mark-in-dallas](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mark-in-dallas/32/860_2.png) [@mark-in-dallas](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mark-in-dallas)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:16am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/33 "2008-11-11T04:16:55Z")
> [@Phya](#): > > WHAT?! How is this possible? I would think that as a judge, if I was presented with DNA evidence indicating a man was innocent after 19 years, I would at least put him in the fast lane for release. Not another whole year. I’m not sure, but I believe that in in most States, within the prison systems, the Governors have to at least approve exonerations. > [@chads](#): > > Do you have a link to the death row story, I can’t find it. Thanks. I saw it on TV in a documentary around 2002, but will try to find a link. > [@Eldros](#): > > there’s more than one instance of this happening, and no, not all under bush. Very true > [@Eldros](#): > > and of course bush would have to wait till he was president, otherwise. . . he wouldn’t have that power. . .. This was a State conviction, not Federal. And as governor he did have the power and authority to overturn the conviction, and release and exonerate anyone for unlawful or improper incarceration. He choose to leave the guy in prison until after the election because he was concerned that if word of it got out it could tarnish his campaign. Then, with battling for and stealing the presidency, he either forgot about the guy, or decided to leave him for Perry to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 6:07am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/34 "2008-11-11T06:07:31Z")
I have to say that reminiscing about GWBs misadventures in the White House is about as heartwarming as frying sheep’s guts and anuses over an open fire. (I will confess I’m too fainthearted to be able to really be engaged in either the reminiscing or the roasting.) I think it is fair to say “He sucked, we all know it.” I’m still holding out for the possibility that he will be charged with war crimes by the World Court. (If my congressperson or senator opposes extraditing GWB for World Court prosecution, they will be on my “forever sh\*tlist”.) We have a lot more to repair than our economy. “The George” is a nasty, virulent disease with lingering effects. If Iraq’s mass of yellowcake is in itself a “WMD program” then I’d say it’s reasonable to conclude that Arizona, and Colorado .. and a dozen other US states have WMD programs. You can too … yellowcake sells for about $11 per pound … though if you buy enough, the husband of a CIA operative might visit you to find out why. ---
**Author:** ![mark-in-dallas](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mark-in-dallas/32/860_2.png) [@mark-in-dallas](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mark-in-dallas)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 6:20am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/35 "2008-11-11T06:20:04Z")
> [@MarkL](#): > > I’m still holding out for the possibility that he will be charged with war crimes by the World Court. Amen brother! ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 9:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/36 "2008-11-11T09:23:54Z")
> [@mark-in-dallas](#): > > Amen brother! Hear hear! ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 8:54pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/37 "2008-11-11T20:54:28Z")
IMHO, I believe that Iraq was done more for strategic purposes than anything else. Iraq sits between two enemy’s of the USA and Israel: Syria and Iran. 1. You destabilize the region by having Arab nation fighting Arab nation. Divide and conquer, not to mention the fact if your fightng me, than neither of us are focusing on our real enemy, Israel. 2. Strategically if the USA were to engage the enemy what better place to have a strong hold than in the enemies backyard 3. OIL. Iraq has plenty of it, now we own Iraq so we have plenty of it. Oil started going up right after the war. Bush owns big oil! 4. War is good for economies. Buildings need to be rebuilt. Cars need to be sold, lives need to be rebuilt. Infrastructure and money printing. Good, good, good for some. Think Halliburton! 5. WMD: If you are really that gullible to believe Hussain did not have them, then you are seriously lacking in reality. He did, he just got rid of them to his neighbor. Again the mutual hatred of the USA was enough to convince Iraq to turn over their Nuclear program to Iran who now all of a sudden has one. Whether you hate Bush, like I do, you still need to realize the truth of the matter. Bush sought to make money of this war and he did, but he also had strategic reasons to do so. Many people died and will continue to die, but the worst thing the US can do now is pull out, because we will be back there and next time it will be even worse. A nuclear Iran, I don’t like that! ---
**Author:** ![Mtnjim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mtnjim/32/2010_2.png) [@Mtnjim](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mtnjim)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/38 "2008-11-12T18:51:27Z")
> [@Steve](#): > > War is good for economies. Buildings need to be rebuilt. Cars need to be sold, lives need to be rebuilt. Infrastructure and money printing. Good, good, good for some. Think Halliburton! Halliburton made money, but the US economy suffered. Bush is the only president in history stupid enough to start a war and cut taxes at the same time. Leaving our children and grand children to pay for this war. > [@](#): > > … Bush sought to make money of this war and he did,… Not to mention his “daddy issues”. ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/39 "2008-11-12T21:02:07Z")
> [@Mtnjim](#): > > Halliburton made money, but the US economy suffered. Bush is the only president in history stupid to start a war and cut taxes at the same time. Leaving our children and grand children to pay for this war. > > Not to mention his “daddy issues”. I agree 100%. I didn’t say I liked Bush, but wanted to post another viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![chads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2acd7d/32.png) [@chads](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/chads)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 1:22am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536/40 "2008-11-13T01:22:53Z")
I was just pointing out there were links between Saddam and al Qeada. They are well known and not lies. Do I like this war or any war, no. Did it probably have to be done, yes. Long term less people will die and especially less Americans. Steve you might add this to your list- I wouldn’t be surprised if the war was also used to end the food for oil program. People in the U.N. ( especially Kofi Anan personally) skimmed billions of dollars off the program. That is why France and Germany opposed the war, they were getting oil kickbacks. Russia opposed it because they were selling equipment to Saddam. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536.md?page=1) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/england-has-a-new-president/22536.md?page=3)