# EST - uplift and bonding for men only? **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [July 9, 2007, 4:18am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/est-uplift-and-bonding-for-men-only/4555 "2007-07-09T04:18:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PepeInLosAltos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7cd45c/32.png) [@PepeInLosAltos](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PepeInLosAltos)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2007, 4:18am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/est-uplift-and-bonding-for-men-only/4555/1 "2007-07-09T04:18:04Z")
This forum doesn’t have much about the effect of EST on women. Is it only useful for making men chill out? Erox pushes EST as universal, but MHarris doesn’t seem to regard it highly. Any empirical evidence of positive or negative social effects on women? I only see itwow’s use in mixes, and references to it being an expensive peer to TAA/[Instant Female Magic](https://a314.com/product/instant-female-magic/), perhaps without the same depressive effects as androstadienone. Maybe it smells better. And what happened to MEO-EST, permanently out of stock? Looking for male/female, social, uplifting, non-sexual. ---
**Author:** ![Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gone_with_the_wind/32/2227_2.png) [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gone_with_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2007, 4:41am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/est-uplift-and-bonding-for-men-only/4555/2 "2007-07-09T04:41:55Z")
I haven’t played much with est yet although I have a bottle. It’s on my list of things to do. I believe it’s a breakdown product of estrogen. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. > [@PepeInLosAltos](#): > > Looking for male/female, social, uplifting, non-sexual. Have you tried TAA and alpha nol yet? Those are a couple of candidates, alone or in combination. ---
**Author:** ![PepeInLosAltos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7cd45c/32.png) [@PepeInLosAltos](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PepeInLosAltos)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2007, 5:09am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/est-uplift-and-bonding-for-men-only/4555/3 "2007-07-09T05:09:43Z")
I’ve been researching, but not trying much so far. I’m waiting for my big order to come in. From the forums, it seems that TAA is the primary ingredient in Shine, while -nols invoke diarrhea of the mouth. I’m looking to EST as something that encourages emotional bonding in a social forum, more “I like being here with you” than “Aren’t you just so much fun?”, more cuddly than chatty. Having analyzed tacitus’ posts, TAA and -nols may not be ideal for quiet environments. ---
**Author:** ![Gegogi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gegogi/32/1536_2.png) [@Gegogi](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gegogi)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2007, 7:45am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/est-uplift-and-bonding-for-men-only/4555/4 "2007-07-09T07:45:27Z")
I have a bottle of chemset EST. It was originally popular as the active pheromone in Men’s Realm, advertised to make the the wearer more comfortable. As I recall, EST is a pheromone naturally produced by women as sorta a male pleaser/relaxer. I’ve used Realm many times and found it too subtle to conclude anything, although I like the scent. It certainly dresses up nicely with a little androstenone and A-1! As for using the chemset EST, it didn’t seem to do much for me either. I even dabbed it under my nose to no avail. However, [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/) are normally much more effective in their natural setting, i.e, cops on a live sexy woman set me ablaze. Cops sniffed from a bottle make me yawn. I have a feeling EST may work the same way. ---
**Author:** ![PepeInLosAltos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7cd45c/32.png) [@PepeInLosAltos](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PepeInLosAltos)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2007, 8:28am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/est-uplift-and-bonding-for-men-only/4555/5 "2007-07-09T08:28:42Z")
Geoggi, does this mean it’s only useful for women? or are men able to benefit from it, in your experience? Based on information from the forums, Realm uses a nearly insignificant amount of EST. Tacitus could snort 1000x of that with his morning coffee and one nostril tied behind his back. EST + P79, and EST + TAF. I would be very interested in hearing about the effect of these combinations on both men and women. Also, EST + beta-androstenol + TAF, EST + alpha-androstenol + TAC, EST + [P83](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p83/) + TAF and EST + P74 + P88 + TAL. ---
**Author:** ![nbully79](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c68b51/32.png) [@nbully79](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/nbully79)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2007, 1:46pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/est-uplift-and-bonding-for-men-only/4555/6 "2007-07-09T13:46:34Z")
> [@PepeInLosAltos](#): > > This forum doesn’t have much about the effect of EST on women. Is it only useful for making men chill out? Erox pushes EST as universal, but MHarris doesn’t seem to regard it highly. Any empirical evidence of positive or negative social effects on women? I only see itwow’s use in mixes, and references to it being an expensive peer to TAA/Instant Female Magic, perhaps without the same depressive effects as androstadienone. Maybe it smells better. > > And what happened to MEO-EST, permanently out of stock? > > Looking for male/female, social, uplifting, non-sexual. There are quite a few posts earlier about use of Est by both men and women. Est is primarily found in pregnant woman’s urine. Look for posts by Tacitus, Bunny, Sigma and itwow. It gives a very warm, cuddly effect when worn by women. Some men have reported very magnetic effects (people want to get close to you, miss you etc) with it. I have found it to be very uplifting even at the doses found in Realm and using just one spray with it. For me it always works in giving me a friendly vibe with men and women and slight uplift in mood. When I first read the description of [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/) in the store I thought it must be based on Est (although I was wrong). Tacitus has explained the differences between TAA, Est and Alpha Androstenol very well in some of his posts. ---
**Author:** ![Gegogi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gegogi/32/1536_2.png) [@Gegogi](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gegogi)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2007, 7:16pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/est-uplift-and-bonding-for-men-only/4555/7 "2007-07-09T19:16:33Z")
> [@](#): > > [Est](https://phera.com/) is primarily found in pregnant’s women urine. Now that explains a lot. I always wondered why men fantasize about being pee on by pregnant women. The ultimate stress relief… ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 9:32pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/est-uplift-and-bonding-for-men-only/4555/8 "2007-07-11T21:32:57Z")
> [@PepeInLosAltos](#): > > I’ve been researching, but not trying much so far. I’m waiting for my big order to come in. From the forums, it seems that TAA is the primary ingredient in Shine, while -nols invoke diarrhea of the mouth. I’m looking to EST as something that encourages emotional bonding in a social forum, more “I like being here with you” than “Aren’t you just so much fun?”, more cuddly than chatty. > > Having analyzed tacitus’ posts, TAA and -nols may not be ideal for quiet environments. [P74](https://a314.com/product/p74/) too. ---
**Author:** ![nbully79](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c68b51/32.png) [@nbully79](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/nbully79)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 9:55pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/est-uplift-and-bonding-for-men-only/4555/9 "2007-07-11T21:55:29Z")
Does anyone have any concrete data on the concentrations of active pheromones in Realm products? The figure 0.005 mg/ml often quoted as it’s concentration has a faulty source to begin with since it was first listed on the Primal Instinct website ([Compare pheromone perfumes, colognes, and oils for androstenone amount](http://www.getprimal.com/compare.html)). We know Realm products don’t contain androstenone according to Erox website so what is Primal comparing?? I don’t find Realm for men weak at all. Even at one spray I see great effects and benefits which leads me to believe that saying Realm products are weak could just be a marketing propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 11:06am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/est-uplift-and-bonding-for-men-only/4555/10 "2007-07-12T11:06:28Z")
> [@nbully79](#): > > Does anyone have any concrete data on the concentrations of active pheromones in Realm products? > > The figure 0.005 mg/ml often quoted as it’s concentration has a faulty source to begin with since it was first listed on the Primal Instinct website ([Compare pheromone perfumes, colognes, and oils for androstenone amount](http://www.getprimal.com/compare.html)). We know Realm products don’t contain androstenone according to Erox website so what is Primal comparing?? > > I don’t find Realm for men weak at all. Even at one spray I see great effects and benefits which leads me to believe that saying Realm products are weak could just be a marketing propaganda. I get strong effects from Realm as well though I always like to use 4 sprays at a time or even more sometimes. I think the thing with Realm is that it is fast diffusing plus the fact there is a fragrance to it makes the little EST seem quite powerul. Realm really does the most for me within 30 mins of application, after that the effects are mostly gone. Main effects are chilling out of people (including me the wearer), increased empathy from both men and women, increased non-sexual magnetism particularly from men but also from women. I actually find Realm chills people out a little too much sometimes as in lessens ‘fun’ conversations and verbal communication a little. Still if you want a more mature, less flighty ‘magnetism’, EST may be a welcome change from the more ‘fun but flighty’ friendly mones like Anol, TAA, and [P74](https://a314.com/product/p74/). Visionary ---
**Author:** ![nbully79](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c68b51/32.png) [@nbully79](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/nbully79)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 1:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/est-uplift-and-bonding-for-men-only/4555/11 "2007-07-12T13:49:20Z")
> [@Socrates](#): > > I get strong effects from Realm as well though I always like to use 4 sprays at a time or even more sometimes. I think the thing with Realm is that it is fast diffusing plus the fact there is a fragrance to it makes the little EST seem quite powerul. Realm really does the most for me within 30 mins of application, after that the effects are mostly gone. > > Visionary I agree maybe the fragrance adds to the pronounced effect. In my experience the effects have lingered for more than 30 mins. even though the fragrance definitely dissipates fast. ---
**Author:** ![sigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@sigma](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/sigma)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:21pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/est-uplift-and-bonding-for-men-only/4555/12 "2007-07-12T17:21:54Z")
> [@](#): > > I get strong effects from Realm as well though I always like to use 4 sprays at a time or even more sometimes. I think the thing with Realm is that it is fast diffusing plus the fact there is a fragrance to it makes the little EST seem quite powerul. Realm really does the most for me within 30 mins of application, after that the effects are mostly gone. > > Main effects are chilling out of people (including me the wearer), increased empathy from both men and women, increased non-sexual magnetism particularly from men but also from women. I actually find Realm chills people out a little too much sometimes as in lessens ‘fun’ conversations and verbal communication a little. Still if you want a more mature, less flighty ‘magnetism’, EST may be a welcome change from the more ‘fun but flighty’ friendly pheromones like Alpha Androstenol, TAA, and P74. I had good results with realm myself back in the day (my gateway [pheromone product](https://a314.com/shop/) really). The effects with realm were shortlived, however, possibly because of the relatively low pheromone content of it. Trials with AD’s raw estratetraenol (which at 50mcg per spray was several times more concentrated than realm) produced an obviously more pronounced effect. The first 30 minutes was characterized with a highly energetic/uplifting ‘buzzy’ state..which later faded to a more empathetic, relaxed state. Great for creating social magnetism in more intimate settings. It seemed to affect men more than women…creating a sort of ‘buddy-buddy’ kind of effect, but it did have affect women as well. The social magnetism it creates with men can indirectly translate into sexual favoritism from women IMO - women are attracted to men who carry the favor of the their peers. P93 seems to create similar empathetic type of effects, but seems a bit more geared towards women than EST. Where P74 seems to pair well with alpha androstenol and TAA (uplifted, fun, social), P93 seems to pair well with beta androstenol, and dienone (intimate, penetrating, empathetic, social). ---
**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2007, 1:00am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/est-uplift-and-bonding-for-men-only/4555/13 "2007-07-27T01:00:57Z")
Somewhere I got the impression that EST was effective at nanogram dose levels (0.01 to 0.1 mcg). Is that just urban legend?