# Estratetraenol - got another request. How much? **URL:** \ **Category:** Pheromone Theory & Molecules\ **Created:** [October 19, 2005, 8:11am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37 "2005-10-19T08:11:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MHarris](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mharris/32/2107_2.png) [@MHarris](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MHarris)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 8:11am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/1 "2005-10-19T08:11:00Z")
I just got another request for estratetraenol via pm. That’s two requests in the last day or so, 3 in the week. Considering that nobody normally talks about requests it, this is like a miniavalanche. How much do you guys wants, and/or what kind of price point? Androstadienone and estratetraenol I now order from a completely third party lab that has nothing to do with us. This is as an additional legal shield against the patents, some of which cover various synthesis routes. It’s many times more expensive to do it this way, but I feel it’d important. It’s mostly pharmaceutical companies that buy this from us, but I’ve wanted to offer to enthusiasts in smaller packages for along time. It’s been available in limited quantities in test kits I’ve sent out from time to time, but nothing major. The price will be high (since it’ll cost us something like 11 times more than it should), but the upside is that quality will be impeccable, as “black label” as you can get. If I can gauge interest, and maybe get preorders for at least a $1000 worth spread out among many users to prove that interest, I’ll get it and it to the cart. I figure maybe the 1mg/ml ethanol format some of you like (15mg total in a 15ml amber bottle with dropper), plus the format I prefer… the ExperiMone sprays or oil carriers. Maybe, what, 10mcg a spray or drop? 20mcg? Let me know. ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 9:51am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/2 "2005-10-19T09:51:47Z")
MHarris I would prefer the concentration to be low for this product and consequently the price to be relatively low. I am definitely willing to preorder $50 worth of product but am hesitant to pay any more initially until I know for sure that it is a good product… on the other hand I would probably reorder it if it works anything like Realm/m (it definitely should) which at low concentrations of Estra seems to counterract the depression I get from wearing -dienone (A1) which is probably my favourite mone. What about getting in Estradienol and Methoxyestateraene as well. I am sure there would be plenty of interest in these mones too. Visionary ---
**Author:** ![Futurist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@Futurist](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Futurist)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 12:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/3 "2005-10-19T12:49:18Z")
There’s been a small little push on the LS board for estratetraenol and I think that’s why you are seeing some interest. If you think you can get rid of the 1000 worth, by all means, but I’m not sure how many people would want it, even hardcore users. I think it’s probably in the edge women, which I’ve messed around with in combos, to some good/wierd results as well as no results. ---
**Author:** ![Aurelie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/aurelie/32/1914_2.png) [@Aurelie](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Aurelie)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 1:03pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/4 "2005-10-19T13:03:46Z")
I think that in a sense we are like collectors. Some people roam flea markets to work on their collection of whatever objects. We roam the world via the internet to collect as many different [pheromones](https://a314.com/shop/) as possible. The thrill of finding one we don’t own yet, and the thrill of then incorporating it into our little arsenal and playing with it! I feel the same way as Visionary. I’d feel comfortable with a $ 50 - $ 75 price tag, even if it means a smaller bottle and a weaker concentration. Anything has got to be stronger than Realm for men. Considering the price of Realm (Marshalls, TJ Max, Walmart) the concentration in there has to be extremely low. I did btw once buy a Realm moisturizing lotion and used it as hand lotion. My husband spontaneously commented on liking the smell (even though it was the men’s version). I wore it to try to uplift his mood, not mine. I agree that the level of interest for: - Estradienol - Methoxyesta-etc - Androstadienol would probably be very comparable to the one for Estratetraenol. PS The problem with Edge women is that is has None in it as well. Single element products are easier to tailor to our own specific needs. My head is reeling with the variables as it is! ---
**Author:** ![MHarris](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mharris/32/2107_2.png) [@MHarris](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MHarris)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 12:46pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/5 "2005-10-20T12:46:48Z")
Do you guys know alternate trivial names (or actual chemical names) for the androgens used in Regina’s studies? I’m not sure she reported the names accurately. For whatever reason, she’s become unreachable after we shipped her a gram of an [experimental pheromone](https://pheromonelabs.com/product-category/advanced-pheromones/experimental-pheromones/), otherwise I’d ask her for clarification. I can get methoxyestratetraenone for a highly limited number of people. Maybe 10 bottles of 5mcg/spray at $20. No guarantees as to efficacy. That’s the best I can do, without significally breaking the ExperiMone pricing schema. I would never be able to add it to a bundle, or necessarily carry it regularly. If it turns out to be a golden goodie, it would at least a years worth of development to make it available in commercial quantities. Thanks for your input guys (and gal). Appreciate it. 🙂 PS - If I understand this correctly, you actually have dienol from us already, Aurelie. ---
**Author:** ![Aurelie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/aurelie/32/1914_2.png) [@Aurelie](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Aurelie)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 1:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/6 "2005-10-20T13:01:44Z")
Michael, I wanted to tell you how much I (and the others too, I’m sure) appreciate your responsiveness and openness to our questions and requests! Dienol? Hahaha… I just fell off my chair! I’m doing blind tests, so that is why I didn’t know. I love these blind tests, I really think that is the way to do it. No pre-set expectations and therefore truer observations. I’m going into town for another test this afternoon. The other thought I had last night was that some of these studies were done quite a few years ago. If some of the mones are unavailable, I’ll just look at it this way - I have to have faith that R&D done by guys like you might actually have produced mones that are finer-tweaked (is that a real word?) ---
**Author:** ![MHarris](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mharris/32/2107_2.png) [@MHarris](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MHarris)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 2:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/7 "2005-10-20T14:08:58Z")
> [@Aurelie](#): > > Michael, > > I wanted to tell you how much I (and the others too, I’m sure) appreciate your responsiveness and openness to our questions and requests! We’re even then. I appreciate you (and the others, too, I’m sure 😉)! > [@Aurelie](#): > > Dienol? Hahaha… I just fell off my chair! I’m doing blind tests, so that is why I didn’t know. I love these blind tests, I really think that is the way to do it. No pre-set expectations and therefore truer observations. I’m going into town for another test this afternoon. There’s at least one dud in the kit, too. That’s how we can tell which testers hallucinate results, and which ones really have a knack for social observation. THANK YOU FOR THANKING ME on this one, btw! Some people seem to literally hate me for blind testing everything (always begging to be preprogrammed), but our placebo free tests have work marvelously. Also, there’s social collusion on forums… “agreement” to what things do, that sometimes override other legitimate effects that these chemicals are producing. If people would accept unlabeled “-none”, I think things would go even further. Even with well known pheromones such as androstenone, I think they’re a little too well “known”. People are overlooking the subtleties. They’re overlooking effects that they would’ve seen if only they didn’t have their expectations well programmed, and the effects all decided and agreed upon. I’d just as well release ExperiMone kits completely blind, with everything labeled with letters. It seems like it’d kill sales to do that, but if it were accepted, there’d literally be a RENAISSANCE in pheromones. Truly. I swear! (until collusion really took hold in forums, which would slow discovery) On to another point… Even though the data is not complete (mostly because a lot of pheromone aware testers get overzealous and create mixes before they’ve fully tested one compound), there’s now more workable pheromones than ever. What’s more, due to the tests over the years, I’ve known which chemosignals to invest the funds in to achieve efficient synthesis routes. Eventually, you’ll have a gaggle of new pheromones, all at costs similar to what you have now. Mind you, with our self-sales we hide people from true costs. We don’t sell things based on actual cost. We absorbed a great deal of that (especially when we used to send out free kits), otherwise we would’ve been fighting an uphill battle. Now when it comes to making consumer products or supplying to other companies, costs matter more. They want everything cheap, they don’t want to absorb costs or offer anything too new or unproven. We just can’t do that with most truly novel compounds. If you absorb costs on a wholesale level, and you die. Synthesis routes are just like routes to work, or back home. The more efficient it is, the “cheaper” it in terms of time and “fuel”. In chemistry, you talk about [yield](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_yield). You can get wherever you want by flying around the world 3 times, but it’s more efficient to go in a straight line. Same thing with chemistry. Research chemistry is expensive, and commercial chemistry is all about finding affordable routes to the most useful compounds. Anyway, we’re getting there… in terms of commercial viablity. Making the rare and difficult, a little easier and more common. I thank everyone here who’s been part of our tests. I’ll be bring you more experimentals in the future. > [@Aurelie](#): > > The other thought I had last night was that some of these studies were done quite a few years ago. If some of the mones are unavailable, I’ll just look at it this way - I have to have faith that R&D done by guys like you might actually have produced mones that are finer-tweaked (is that a real word?) We certainly get more data by offering this out to the public, and to a small, private test groups. It also shifts costs costs around to make things happen. If you do research at univerties, you’re often talking eons for the most boring, staid data on earth. Those places suck up money with a moonsized straw, and they don’t make much happen, unless they have someone truly passionate and inspired conducting the research. I think the university research in this area is something more for poeple to put into sales letter. The real “action” is where the enthusiasts are. The real proof is in the pudding in the pheromone field. The proof is amongst the people who use 'em. The second greatest hotbed of action are the experimenters I round out myself, who I get to test totally blind. I tell them to watch for skin reactions, not pheromonal effects. Then I ask them about social effects later on, see if their enhanced skin helped their social life. These social experiments produce even better results than most enthusiasts. It’s real time, real life social experimentation, with the world as the observation chamber. It works. My modus operandi is always: test first, describe second. Not even university studies do that, usually. They almost always have an idea of what they’re looking for. There’s always bias at one or more points in an experiment. I hate to do that. I delight in removing bias points, where and when at all possible. If you always go in looking for something, you might just find it, whether it’s real or not… and ignore something else entirely. Anyway, thanks for your input. Much appreciated! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Futurist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@Futurist](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Futurist)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/8 "2005-10-21T01:41:57Z")
Yes, we really appreciate what Androtics is doing. You all are wonderful. I’ll always support your cause. Ah oh. Although it was sincere, I just realized what I just said sounds really cultish. Reminds me of some place else on the net. 🙂🙂🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MHarris](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mharris/32/2107_2.png) [@MHarris](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MHarris)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 2:35am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/9 "2005-10-21T02:35:55Z")
> [@Futurist](#): > > Yes, we really appreciate what Androtics is doing. You all are wonderful. I’ll always support your cause. > > Ah oh. Although it was sincere, I just realized what I just said sounds really cultish. Reminds me of some place else on the net. 🙂🙂🙂 Hahaha. Thank you. 😃 Just be sure knock everything we do wrong (but always include a recommendation with how to do it right - I don’t like baseless criticism). Except don’t give us such a hard time the secret stuff. It takes years of labor to create some of these things. It’s either trade secrets, like Coca-Cola, or patents, like the big “evil” companies. (I’m not even a believer in evil, but I just know that that if it exists, it’s spelled something like “PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY” 😉) I’ve heard you’re a writer… this is like copyright for our industry, as a hedge against direct “plagiarism”. Like copyrights, trade secrets don’t prevent rewrites in people’s own words. People are still free to do their own thing. That’s ok to ask for, right? ---
**Author:** ![Futurist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@Futurist](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Futurist)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 11:36am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/10 "2005-10-21T11:36:09Z")
Jasmin knows how much negative feedback I’m capable of giving. As far as people who knock trade secrets – or don’t understand the concept of them – well, they’re just pu\*\*ies who’ve never assumed any risk. ---
**Author:** ![Aurelie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/aurelie/32/1914_2.png) [@Aurelie](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Aurelie)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/11 "2005-10-21T14:10:38Z")
In my opnion a difference is to be made between two types of situations. A test kit that is offered either free or at reduced pricing is one thing. It’s like a clinical trial. It’s a cooperation between the manufacturer and the user and a contract by the same token. Since the manufacturer is partly or entirely funding the research he has the absolute right to ask for certain things in exchange. That’s the way they do it in clinical trials as well. The patient has to commit to certain obligations. In this case they could be: - I agree for the test to be blind, so that I do not inject my own bias as to what some products might do. - I agree to give accurate and full reports (a schedule / minimum number of reports can be part of the requirement as well). - The manufacturer could even set up “experiment requirements”. Such as: - Day one - x number of sprays of my product only. - Day two - x + 1 number of sprays of my product only. etc. The second scenario is where the user buys a product. I totally understand the concept of trade secrets, proprietary information etc. But I think that the one and only information that would go 90% towards making users happy is - the none content! **What is the concentration of the combined none and none-like ingredients?** That’s all. Let’s face it none is like little sticks of dynamite in there. No-one wants to risk an OD of none either at work or at home. I’ve been planning to dig up the link to some research articles I read about none. If what they said was true, I’d tip-toe around that stuff if I were a guy. Off of the top of my head it said something like: Women found the smell of none (even covered up) unpleasant and at best neutral. The only time it was rated as neutral was when they were ovulating. Makes sense when you think about it. But I’ll save my further ramblings on this subject for a different thread maybe? ---
**Author:** ![MHarris](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mharris/32/2107_2.png) [@MHarris](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MHarris)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 3:06pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/12 "2005-10-21T15:06:44Z")
I had an intricate reply to this that I lost with the hit of the wrong button. I see your point about the -none, though. Feel free to start a new thread. ---
**Author:** ![Aurelie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/aurelie/32/1914_2.png) [@Aurelie](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Aurelie)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 11:02pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/13 "2005-10-23T23:02:18Z")
> [@MHarris](#): > > I had an intricate reply to this that I lost with the hit of the wrong button. > > I see your point about the -none, though. Feel free to start a new thread. Don’t you just HATE it when that happens! 😮 I now do this: I open the thread on one of my monitors and on the other monitor I open a word doc and compose my reply. (I have a 2 monitor set-up for professional reasons - lol I could use 3) Then I copy/paste the reply and don’t close/delete the word doc until my reply on the forum is secure. PS Thread about none is on my to-do. ---
**Author:** ![Futurist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@Futurist](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Futurist)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 12:08am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/14 "2005-10-24T00:08:22Z")
How about clicking “Print screen”? You can capture an image of the screen and then paste it somewhere so at least you retain part of the text, while also not having to go through the trouble of clicking a lot of stuff each time you post. ---
**Author:** ![josef](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/josef/32/2007_2.png) [@josef](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/josef)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 11:06pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/15 "2005-11-14T23:06:13Z")
> [@Aurelie](#): > > In my opnion a difference is to be made between two types of situations. > > A test kit that is offered either free or at reduced pricing is one thing. It’s like a clinical trial. It’s a cooperation between the manufacturer and the user and a contract by the same token. > > Since the manufacturer is partly or entirely funding the research he has the absolute right to ask for certain things in exchange. That’s the way they do it in clinical trials as well. The patient has to commit to certain obligations. In this case they could be: > > - I agree for the test to be blind, so that I do not inject my own bias as to what some products might do. > > - I agree to give accurate and full reports (a schedule / minimum number of reports can be part of the requirement as well). > > - The manufacturer could even set up “experiment requirements”. Such as: > > - Day one - x number of sprays of my product only. > - Day two - x + 1 number of sprays of my product only. > etc. while i understand the need for the “un-corrupted” data this kind of testing would offer, trying to get unsupervised males to adhere to those testing conditions, especially considering the material, would be incredibly difficult. we all want to be associated with a winner damnit, and we have no patience or tolerance for losing, or even worse, no clear result. on top of that, there is difficulty in repeating exposure scenarios. i know it seems crazy, but give me just 3 different kinds of pheromones and there are literally thousands and thousands of different combinations possible. i wholeheartedly agree with the comment about blind testing with -none, maybe no description should be sent other than something along the lines of “under no circumstances should more than 3 drops be used in any 36 hour period…” i’ve said previously that i’ve been using pheromones for 5 years but only actually made use of them for probably 6 months, and in that time i’ve come to equate them to food, and more specifically, BD’s Mongolian Buffet (those of you that are lucky enough to have one know what i’m talking about!) , you get hundreds of people in the restaurant every night, yet the chances of 2 people eating the exact same thing are incredibly small. /rambleoff ---
**Author:** ![MHarris](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mharris/32/2107_2.png) [@MHarris](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MHarris)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 2:30pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/16 "2005-11-21T14:30:24Z")
I don’t have the est, but I have the promised form of methoxy (methoxyestratetraenone), and another putative. The putative, in particular, has that human musk scent that is typical of most real [human pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/), so I have high hopes for it. I’d hate to compound these at the moment, since I’m so busy trying to get the store up… but they will be shippable as the store goes live. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 8:59pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/17 "2005-11-25T20:59:34Z")
MHarris this is great news!🙂 Any word on whether the putatitve is a masculine [pheromone](https://a314.com/) and could you give us a sneak preview of what type of reactions it might elicit? Oh and check your PMs. Visionary > [@MHarris](#): > > I don’t have the est, but I have the promised form of methoxy (methoxyestratetraenone), and another putative. The putative, in particular, has that human musk scent that is typical of most real human pheromones, so I have high hopes for it. > > I’d hate to compound these at the moment, since I’m so busy trying to get the store up… but they will be shippable as the store goes live. > > Thanks ---
**Author:** ![MHarris](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mharris/32/2107_2.png) [@MHarris](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MHarris)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 6:21am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/18 "2005-11-27T06:21:41Z")
> [@Socrates](#): > > MHarris this is great news!🙂 > > Any word on whether the putatitve is a masculine pheromone and could you give us a sneak preview of what type of reactions it might elicit? > > Oh and check your PMs. > > Visionary If it was a test pheromone, I’d have some idea, and just wouldn’t tell you. But this is a phase 1 putative, so I truly have no idea _whatsoever_. 🙂 The fact that is smells human, though, is encouraging. I don’t have anything that smells human in my repertoire that doesn’t modify or effect behavior in some way. The caveat when looking for legitimate putatives is that there are several legitimate pheromones which definitely don’t smell human. Not to my nose, anyway, so I can’t always follow it - you still gotta test, test, test. Then test some more. In fact, one of the most powerful pheromones I’ve ever worked with doesn’t smell human one bit. If it wasn’t for the insistence on testing, I would’ve passed by it. ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 8:22am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/19 "2006-01-05T08:22:26Z")
Methoxyestratetraenone and the other putative mone > [@MHarris](#): > > I don’t have the est, but I have the promised form of methoxy (methoxyestratetraenone), and another putative. Has anyone got anything to report on these two products? If you are a woman, does Methoxyestratetraenone make you seem ‘better, kinder and much more liked’ by men (as per Maiworm’s 1998 study)? Visionary ---
**Author:** ![MHarris](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mharris/32/2107_2.png) [@MHarris](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MHarris)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 11:12am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37/20 "2006-01-06T11:12:49Z")
I still haven’t tried it yet. I should do that later today, if time is forgiving to me. There are a few people who have it now. That reminds me… there was one later who really wanted this molecule who asked me to pm her when it available. Better do that. [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/estratetraenol-got-another-request-how-much/37.md?page=2)