# First date...To pay or not to pay **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [April 2, 2007, 7:09am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867 "2007-04-02T07:09:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 2:26pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/83 "2007-04-07T14:26:55Z")
> [@toilofday](#): > > The pilot canceled on us due to wind and somebody took the keys with them. ☹ > > It worked out just fine though. I got a kiss close at the end of the date and she had a great time as did I. > > We are rescheduling the flight as neither of us have flown in a plane. > > There are definately going to be more dates to follow.😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 > > p.s. > > 😃 Blasted, I forgot to return the keys. I’m just glad everything worked out anyway ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 2:30pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/84 "2007-04-07T14:30:30Z")
> [@toilofday](#): > > I’m a fantastic cook and have tried this method more than once and seem to get negative results. It’s as if the girl thinks i’m trying to hard. I love to cook and when I make an effor (even a small effort) I prepare a 3 course gormet meal. I won’t cook anything that isn’t worth paying top dollar for. It may cost 5 dollars to 30 dollars a plate for ingredients, but it’s always top quality. > > Was the food good, or was the food fantastic. Perhaps my cooking experience is giving me a DLV because it looks like I’m trying to hard. Cooking is a great thing to do, but what I like to do is bring over the ingredients to her place (if possible) and have her participate in the cooking. It builds their comfort that you can work together to create things while having fun and the end result is sumptuous. It steers the mind into sex believe it or not. ---
**Author:** ![sigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@sigma](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/sigma)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 4:34pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/85 "2007-04-07T16:34:33Z")
> [@Carrie](#): > > For our first date, my husband made dinner for us. A man feeding a woman has a certain primal appeal that can’t be denied. I think it’s safe to say no interview took place, lol 😃 Definitely true Here’s an excerpt from [Anatomy of Love, by Helen Fisher](http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1175/is_n2_v26/ai_13502145) _"THE DINNER DATE_ _Probably no ritual is more common to Western would-be lovers than the “dinner date.” If the man is courting, he pays–and a woman instinctively knows her partner is wooing her. In fact, there is no more widespread courtship ploy than offering food in hopes of gaining sexual favors. Around the world men given women presents prior to lovemaking. A fish, a piece of meat, sweets, and beer are among the delicacies men have invented as offerings._ _This ploy is not exclusive to men. Black-tipped hang flies often catch aphids, daddy longlegs, or houseflies on the forest floor. When a male has felled a particularly juicy prey, he exudes secretions from an abdominal scent gland that catch the breeze, announcing a successful hunting expedition. Often a passing female hang fly stops to enjoy the meal–but not without copulating while she eats._ _“Courtship feeding”, as this custom is called, probably predates the dinosaurs, because it has an important reproductive function. By providing food to females, males show their abilities as hunters, providers, worthy procreative partners."_ ---
**Author:** ![jpballerina](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jpballerina/32/1004_2.png) [@jpballerina](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jpballerina)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2007, 6:01am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/86 "2007-04-08T06:01:53Z")
Yeah, the legendary tounge is back! Love the new avatar steevo . . . 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Oldman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b2d939/32.png) [@Oldman](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Oldman)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2007, 8:16am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/87 "2007-04-08T08:16:53Z")
[quote=“Carrie, post:22, topic:2867”] I’ve relaxed my own such rules over time and at this stage _ **I’d only insist on paying if I was seriously UNinterested in the guy.** _ BINGO, Carrie!. Having the girl insist on paying for her portion of dinner (or whatever was purchased on or for a date that she was invited to go on) says “I am not interested and we are not going out again”. I have experienced two such dates in my 52 years. I don’t know which came first; them deciding that they were not interested in me, or me deciding I was not interested in them. Maybe they picked up on how I was feeling and felt uncomfortable and decided that the date was a bad idea or vise-versa. At any rate, ten to twenty minutes into each date, I sensed something was not exactly right and was relieved when both dates were over. Sure enough, when it came to time to pay, they both very hurriedly and uneasily began reaching for purses. As the person who did the inviting, I didn’t feel it was right, but I understood what was happening and allowed it to happen. ---
**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2007, 10:10am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/88 "2007-04-08T10:10:59Z")
jp, would that be the young Hugh Jackman in your sig? ---
**Author:** ![Nunya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac8455/32.png) [@Nunya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Nunya)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2007, 1:37pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/89 "2007-04-08T13:37:30Z")
looks a little young for hugh jackman. ---
**Author:** ![jpballerina](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jpballerina/32/1004_2.png) [@jpballerina](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jpballerina)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 5:50am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/90 "2007-04-09T05:50:14Z")
It _ **is** _ Hugh Jackman! 😃 Ah—my not-so-secret love, Hugh. He can act, sing, dance, and kick the bad guy’s butt all while looking amazingly sexy. My bf knows that all rules are void if I ever get a chance to put my hands on Hugh. And now I am going to stop talking. 😉 xoxo jp ---
**Author:** ![Nunya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac8455/32.png) [@Nunya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Nunya)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 11:25am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/91 "2007-04-09T11:25:11Z")
damn he looks really young in that pic. Or maybe it’s jsut too tiny for me to see clearly. He looks like \ ---
**Author:** ![saraunne](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/saraunne/32/193_2.png) [@saraunne](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/saraunne)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2007, 1:34am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/92 "2007-04-10T01:34:20Z")
Gone for a week, and look what happens! Glad your date went well, Toil. And with a face like that, how couldn’t it? 😉 And belated as it is, I’m putting my two cents in: Being in the group of women that Toil dates (well, not really in THAT exact group, but you know what I mean) it’s a huge freedom issue with me. I’m with Lor in that if I don’t like the guy, I won’t let him pay. The only setting I’ve really been in has been in bars when guys want to buy me drinks, but it still counts. The last thing I want to do is make some poor guy think I’m interested in him and then take his money. And then add that on to a date, the guilt would be too much, I just couldn’t do it. As for the rest, there is that assertion of independance. I hate it when guys lead me around the room by the small of my back (some ladies love it, but I just feel claustrophobic), or try in any way to make it look like they’re taking care of me (except for holding doors – but if there’s a second one to go through, and I’m still ahead of him, I’ll open it for him). I won’t throw a fit or anything, but the annoyance is there. I just try not to take it personally. I mean, really, he’s not trying to offend or attack me with manners. It just stems down to my own control issues. And I’m disappointed in those girls who’ll just eat and run. They should be spanked without sexual overtones. My sushi was free, but I paid the next time. He wasn’t happy about it, but that’s okay. I learned how to beat the rubics cube, I figure I paid him with coffee. A nerdy frat boy, what is the world coming to? ---
**Author:** ![Godhand](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/godhand/32/2378_2.png) [@Godhand](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Godhand)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2007, 4:41pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/93 "2007-04-11T16:41:04Z")
> [@toilofday](#): > > Hot Mama, > Unfortunately there are to many girls out there than want a free meal and drinks. They will go on a date even if they aren’t interested just to make the agressor happy and get a free meal. I’ve heard it from almost all of my female friends. > > It makes sence that a female is subconsiously looking for somebody to support a family and therefore should pay, but many times the guy is taken advantage off. Look at the bar atmosphere for example. I have female friends who go out and find guys who will guy them their firs couple drinks just because they know they can get free drinks. There was girl tonight who called me rude because I joking asked if she was going to buy me a shot. According to her, it’s rude because she has breasts, and that gives her leverage to get what she wants. > > This is what my age group seems to express. Femanimity = Power. Having tits = power. haveing a vagina = power. > > The modern female seems to have an ego trip about her own sexuality and independance. > > If you don’t buy drinks/meal/everything then you suck. If you do buy everything then you are weak. > > The solution lies in the ability to grasp attention without placing yourself in a finincail obligation. > > I’ve very recently come to this conclusion, and it seems to fit. > > I won’t buy drinks for girls because I shouldn’t have to pay for their attention. > > I’ll pay for dinner if invite sombody out, but if they insist on paying I won’t refuse, because the want to show their independance and lack of need for being provided for. > > Many females I know don’t like the idea of needing a man to take care of them and insist on paying. Every time I have ignored that and payed anyway I have put myself in a negative position. I seem like i’m trying to dominate their positoin which is more negative then only paying your part of the bill without a second though of paying for the female. > > The modern female seems to want to be treated just like a man, which is obserd because there a distinct emotional and physiological differences. I agree that thing such as pay, professional acceptance, status in every day environments should be upheld; but there is no way that men and women will ever fall on the same playing grounds. > > In reference to “same playing grounds” i’m not refering to status. I do believe the men and women should be treated equaly in terms of status, but to put both genders on the same playing field would be like trying to play football on a baseball field. It’s impossible. > > The current gender mindset is an overcompensation for years of degredation and hopefuly will soon re-regulate it’s self back down to the normal situations where normal evelutionaly cues are accepted as opposed to being seen as discrimination. > > Excuse the spelling please. I don’t feel like spell checking this post. I agree with your position. As a rule, I keep first dates under $20. I typically avoid dinner outings on a first date because that is courtship behavior. It telegraphs the fact that you are already won over. On a first date, I’m still trying to get to know the woman. I’m still qualifying her. Hence, I’m not about to buy her a bunch of crap if I’m unsure that I even want a second date with her to begin with. I tend to do things like inviting her over or going on inexpensive outings so I can get to know her. In many regards, I treat her alot like I treat my regular friends until she proves herself worthy of more. When a man spends alot of money on the first date, that is tricking. There is no difference between that and a man stuffing money in a stripper’s G-string. To further elaborate, here are two episodes of Tariq “King Flex” Nasheed’s Mack Lessons podcast that deal explicitly with this topic: “Taking Women On Dates” [http://www.supload.com/listen?s=SQB0XnTzdas](http://www.supload.com/listen?s=SQB0XnTzdas) “Practical Dating” [http://www.supload.com/listen?s=SsZ1woxWfEZ](http://www.supload.com/listen?s=SsZ1woxWfEZ) ---
**Author:** ![Carrie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/carrie/32/1537_2.png) [@Carrie](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Carrie)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 3:31am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/94 "2007-04-12T03:31:58Z")
Wow, this thread is now full of posts that were held up in the moderator glitch. I had to go back and read the ones that were missing before. Toil, the phenomenon of young women demonstrating their independence by paying their own way is what I referring to when I said you might be in a subculture with its own rules. I think it’s probably typical of certain college environments, and young women in the early stages of their careers. They’re quite aware of power dynamics, as you describe. (Saraunne alludes to this, too - I felt the same way). I think you’ll find that behavior less common as you and your dates get older. After a few years (or in my case, decades, lol) they’ll be more self assured and able to relax about all this stuff. Godhand, I agree with you about the purpose of first dates and the wisdom of not making it a huge expenditure if you really don’t know each other yet. ---
**Author:** ![toilofday](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/toilofday/32/371_2.png) [@toilofday](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/toilofday)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 3:48am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/95 "2007-04-12T03:48:37Z")
> [@saraunne](#): > > Gone for a week, and look what happens! > > Glad your date went well, Toil. And with a face like that, how couldn’t it? 😉 > > And belated as it is, I’m putting my two cents in: > > Being in the group of women that Toil dates (well, not really in THAT exact group, but you know what I mean) it’s a huge freedom issue with me. No, I don’t know what you mean, but I think i’d like to find out. 😛 > [@saraunne](#): > > And then add that on to a date, the guilt would be too much, I just couldn’t do it. I payed attention this weekend as to how many times I saw women accept drinks from guys and then bail after 2-5 minutes MAX. These were guys who the girl was clearly uninterested with. One of them even started grinding on me when she was in line with the dude who was buying her a drink. Keep being guilty…you are a credit to your gender. > [@Godhand](#): > > I agree with your position. As a rule, I keep first dates under $20. I typically avoid dinner outings on a first date because that is courtship behavior. It telegraphs the fact that you are already won over. On a first date, I’m still trying to get to know the woman. I’m still qualifying her. Hence, I’m not about to buy her a bunch of crap if I’m unsure that I even want a second date with her to begin with. I tend to do things like inviting her over or going on inexpensive outings so I can get to know her. In many regards, I treat her alot like I treat my regular friends until she proves herself worthy of more. When a man spends alot of money on the first date, that is tricking. There is no difference between that and a man stuffing money in a stripper’s G-string. To further elaborate, here are two episodes of Tariq “King Flex” Nasheed’s Mack Lessons podcast that deal explicitly with this topic: > > “Taking Women On Dates” > [Supload.com - Free Image Hosting, Free Audio Hosting, Free Music Hosting, Free Video Hosting, Free Movie Hosting](http://www.supload.com/listen?s=SQB0XnTzdas) > > “Practical Dating” > [Supload.com - Free Image Hosting, Free Audio Hosting, Free Music Hosting, Free Video Hosting, Free Movie Hosting](http://www.supload.com/listen?s=SsZ1woxWfEZ) You ROCK! > [@Carrie](#): > > Wow, this thread is now full of posts that were held up in the moderator glitch. I had to go back and read the ones that were missing before. > > Toil, the phenomenon of young women demonstrating their independence by paying their own way is what I referring to when I said you might be in a subculture with its own rules. I think it’s probably typical of certain college environments, and young women in the early stages of their careers. They’re quite aware of power dynamics, as you describe. (Saraunne alludes to this, too - I felt the same way). I think you’ll find that behavior less common as you and your dates get older. After a few years (or in my case, decades, lol) they’ll be more self assured and able to relax about all this stuff. > > Godhand, I agree with you about the purpose of first dates and the wisdom of not making it a huge expenditure if you really don’t know each other yet. I’d have to say it’s more of a femanist thing. Strong supporters of womens rights, and big fans of riot girl music. lol 😛 I am glad that these ladies begin to relax with age. If I had to put up with the same old BS I see ever weekend at the bars, i’d probably be single for the rest of my life. I just don’t understand my age group I guess. I get along with older social circles to a greater extent. ---
**Author:** ![smn1234](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/smn1234/32/2430_2.png) [@smn1234](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/smn1234)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 5:13am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/96 "2007-04-12T05:13:39Z")
I wouldn’t pay immediatly… more like pay the split bill and cover the entire tip or something, not too substantial but… nothing too crazy… I did read about the independence thing and that’s why I wouldn’t pay… Women do choose men for, among other reasons, the amount of “posessions” they have… but I certainly wouldn’t go throwing it around during a date.. more like.. access to the jewels needs to be achieved… much like women do to us 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 1:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/97 "2007-04-12T13:49:56Z")
> [@MarkL](#): > > But the same strategy **works with moderately priced** restaurants. If you’re spending $40 – or $25 – apiece for cocktails and food, having a $15 flower arrangement created for you and delivered to your table has a powerful impact. Do you do this every dinner date though? Sounds like it might become repetitive too. I think it should be occasional. But you posted some really good tips, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 2:32pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/98 "2007-04-12T14:32:01Z")
With my ex-gf we used to take turns to pay. I’ll offer to pay the first time/s usually but if my date tells me she wants to take turns.. then that’s ok with me and fair enough. I never split a bill though and don’t plan to ever do that. This taking turns might be a local custom, I’m not sure.. ---
**Author:** ![HotMama](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/hotmama/32/1786_2.png) [@HotMama](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/HotMama)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 5:04pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/99 "2007-04-12T17:04:31Z")
> [@Phoenix](#): > > With my ex-gf we used to take turns to pay. I’ll offer to pay the first time/s usually but if my date tells me she wants to take turns.. then that’s ok with me and fair enough. I never split a bill though and don’t plan to ever do that. > This taking turns might be a local custom, I’m not sure.. Yea, me too. I still take turns with my husband (we have separate money). Never split, just take turns. When we first went out, he paid, though. After a few dates, I don’t MIND paying at all. Why should the guy take all the financial burden of dating? Wouldn’t be fair. To all who misunderstood me for my previous comments: we are only talking about a first date gesture of generosity and a man symbolically showing his willingness and capability of being a caretaker. After a few dates, I wouldn’t LET a guy pay all the time, espessially if I like him 😉 (where’s on the first date, I will insist on paying if I DON’T, kwim?) ---
**Author:** ![Rbt](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/rbt/32/2066_2.png) [@Rbt](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Rbt)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 12:03am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/100 "2007-04-19T00:03:08Z")
> [@MarkL](#): > > … > > Earlier in the day, the headwaiter should have your credit card imprint and a $10 bill in his hot sweaty hand with your SASE > … I didn’t know McDonald’s _had_ headwaiters… Maybe _that’s_ why when I take a date there it always seem to fall flat… Hmmmm… ---
**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 4:26am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/101 "2007-04-24T04:26:42Z")
> [@saraunne](#): > > \ Glad your date went well, Toil. And with a face like that, how couldn’t it? 😉 \ Yep, saraunne, you’re the first person that’s explicitly noticed toil’s new photo in a thread. I agree – I’d consider having his mug an asset. Just watch: he’s moving to LA, and the next time you see him, it will be as the central figure in a reality show on cooking gourmet food as a dating method… ---
**Author:** ![Kitten](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/kitten/32/1051_2.png) [@Kitten](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Kitten)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 5:08am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867/102 "2007-04-24T05:08:21Z")
Pay. The only think less attractive than a guy who won’t pay is a guy who pays but makes a big fuss about how much my caviar cost. 😉 Kidding…about the caviar, ick, not the rest. Oh, and making dinner means you are hoping she will shag you after the tiramisu, so might save that for a date when it is likely to happen. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867.md?page=4) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/first-date-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/2867.md?page=6)