# Friend Zone - Permanent or Temporary? **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [June 12, 2011, 5:39am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712 "2011-06-12T05:39:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Astrea](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/astrea/32/1928_2.png) [@Astrea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Astrea)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/41 "2011-06-16T03:24:29Z")
> [@RADMAN513](#): > > Actually opener/convo starter I sometimes use… > > "You know, I was thinking the earlier today, some people don’t understand the difference between ‘how are you?’ and "how are ya?'. See, and be honest…when you say ‘how are ya?’, you don’t really want to KNOW, you’re just being polite. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, **I personally think that politeness is underrated**. The problem is that some people just don’t get that and give the appropriate answer of ‘Oh I’m doing fine, and you?’. They wind up going into a detailed diatribe of everything going on in their lives at that particular point. And you can’t really say anything to them because…well technically you asked. > > Now ‘How are YOU?’ is different. It’s more personal and real. You’re not changing ‘YOU’ to the lazier sounding ‘Ya’. And that indicates a genuine interest. It means 'out of all the people I could be talking to right now…I’m actually curious about how it is to be YOU at this moment. > > …so…How are you?" > > Usually gets me a blank stare for a minute before the girls sorta shakes her head like she’s regaining her bearings and then answers. Radman, you should conduct a ‘finishing school’ for young guys. I know the younger ones are gonna roll their eyes and snort right about now; but! When anyone, especially a guy I’m interested in says / txts the YOU, my entire demeanor changes. Yes, you’re absolutely right. When I get the YOU; it **does** lodge as genuine interest in the processes going on. I generally give this a big smile (reflex) and it automatically “adds rep” to that person. I was raised by Eastern European parents and baby sat (when I was 3 - 5yrs old) by an older, proper **genteel** British couple while they worked. They, the Brits, were old enough to be my grandparents. Both cultures stand on ceremony, both place high priority on manners, respect and polite attitude. I learned English and English manners, that have stood me well, from those people. ---
**Author:** ![Astrea](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/astrea/32/1928_2.png) [@Astrea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Astrea)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/43 "2011-06-16T04:03:54Z")
> [@anon13543563](#): > > Get physical, next time you meet a lady, go hug her and get physical with her. If she offers a handshake, say, “I only take hugs”. Yeah, ahh . . . no. Not unless you’ve already been introduced and she’s at least showing a liking for you. A lot of girls will go with the hug, but will bitch about you ‘getting in my bubble, like he _knows_ me, WTF was **that** about?! 😮’. Which happens a lot - in the bathroom, away from you. I don’t like it. I hug guys I _know / have met and like_, but do NOT hug anyone I don’t know / haven’t met. I have also been literally chased (slo mo) around a venue by a guy I didn’t know (acquaintance of a friend) who said the exact same thing. I don’t care “what you only take”. Invading someone’s - especially someone you don’t know - personal space deliberately like that (can) come off as creeper trying to cop a feel. No bueno. Respect. Invading someone’s space without being in the “we’ve met and so far like each other” place; can appear disrespectful. After all, you’ve just **brushed aside** her hand **and told her what you** will accept. This can and will be seen as being dismissive of her preference / comfort zone. Girls will do the dodge and the ‘oh no, it’s him’ quickstep behind furniture, their gf’s and random guys to dodge the ‘feelie guy’. Cornering a girl won’t get you any points, either. ---
**Author:** ![ScienceStudent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@ScienceStudent](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ScienceStudent)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 6:25am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/44 "2011-06-16T06:25:56Z")
> [@Astrea](#): > > 😃 LMAO. I seriously don’t believe anyone here has made that mistake after reading your intro! (giggling so much I choked on my coffee) Well I don’t assume everyone has read my intro, especially if replying to people who are new to me. ---
**Author:** ![ScienceStudent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@ScienceStudent](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ScienceStudent)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 6:55am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/45 "2011-06-16T06:55:51Z")
> [@Astrea](#): > > Radman, you should conduct a ‘finishing school’ for young guys… I agree. On the _rare_ times I meet a true gentleman, I try suggest he should be a mentor. 😉 Most won’t because they don’t want the competition. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ScienceStudent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@ScienceStudent](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ScienceStudent)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 7:19am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/46 "2011-06-16T07:19:59Z")
You _could_ make a joke of it “I only take hugs.” 😉 and laugh it off if she seems shy. “Well I’ll add it to your tab.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 10:37am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/47 "2011-06-16T10:37:25Z")
> [@](#): > > "You know, I was thinking the earlier today, some people don’t understand the difference between ‘how are you?’ and "how are ya?'. See, and be honest…when you say ‘how are ya?’, you don’t really want to KNOW, you’re just being polite. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, I personally think that politeness is underrated. The problem is that some people just don’t get that and give the appropriate answer of ‘Oh I’m doing fine, and you?’. They wind up going into a detailed diatribe of everything going on in their lives at that particular point. And you can’t really say anything to them because…well technically you asked. > > Now ‘How are YOU?’ is different. It’s more personal and real. You’re not changing ‘YOU’ to the lazier sounding ‘Ya’. And that indicates a genuine interest. It means 'out of all the people I could be talking to right now…I’m actually curious about how it is to be YOU at this moment. > > …so…How are you?" Either phrase can produce more then one response. “How are you?” or “How are ya ?”. Most people will respond with the “canned” (for lack of a better word) response… “I’m fine how are you ?”… out of habit even if there are not fine. It doesn’t build rapport its just something we say as another form of greeting. There are words and phrases peoples use automatically without thought like the above phrase or “Thank You” “see ya later” “What you up to ?” etc etc. They dont build rapport. If you want to build rapport and truly connect with people then you need to actually be mindful of what you say and what others say to you and use body language and kino to create something beyond those canned responses. I never ask someone "How are you ? " in any form unless I want to know and am willing to stop and take the time to hear the response. I think its a rude greeting otherwise. When I do say it I will make direct eye contact and sometimes touch there arm so they know I am asking a real question. When I say “Thank you” I do the same thing. I have a easy time building rapport with people because they know when I ask I am truly going to listen to them. They learn this because they see it from first contact. You just give the canned phrase and response in any form its like saying “Your not worth my time”. It closes off the connection. My point is if you are just passing someone and want to acknowledge them “Hello” is the appropriate salutation. Do not ask how are you in any form unless you want to know. It disconnects you from the person when not used properly. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/48 "2011-06-16T16:19:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Get physical, next time you meet a lady, go hug her and get physical with her. If she offers a handshake, say, “I only take hugs”. Good Goddess, Her allowing the hug is like saying welcome to my friend zone. Hugging can backfire when your already in the friend zone. Hugging in the friend zone doesn’t create sexual tension it plants you more firmly in it. The “I only take hugs” response wouldn’t go over big with me in the friend zone or not. I would probably say “well then your shit out of luck aren’t you”. Kino is important in attraction but its more subtle to creates tension and a certain amount of uncertainty. A subtle touch can be much more alluring and arousing then a all out hug. For instance right now I have very long hair. (Avatar is a few years old). I tend to braid it in a long braid down my back when I go to work to keep it out of my face. Now there are guys who are in my friends box that hug me or even give me a kiss on the cheek when I see them. I am not attracted to them sexually and just think of them as friends but then there are those who create tension. They never kiss or hug me but use there own body language and mild kino to project a vibe. Like one particular friend who just the other day gently grabbed my braid and wrapped it around his hand when he was standing behind me in the time clock line and whispering something funny to me about a coworker. It created tension, Its like a vibe that says I know we are friends but only because I allow it. I ignore the feeling because I am married but if I were single I wouldn’t consider him in my friend zone. He sort of throws me off balance which keeps him effectively out of the box. Very hard to explain in words without some imagery.. My advice to **those in the friends box** is avoid hugging and kissing at all costs. However, do not avoid touching and if you need to get a dvd on kino. Its not a inappropriate touch but it is more intimate. I know people think that hugging and kissing is intimate but often times its a form of greeting and affection not of attraction. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![ScienceStudent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@ScienceStudent](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ScienceStudent)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/49 "2011-06-16T20:20:26Z")
> [@PheroJack](#): > > …when it comes to dating and women, please don’t take women’s advice 😃 seriously it’s just how humans (or women) are. most of the time when a guy asks for dating help they will say “we want that nice guy that shows us care and love and support bla bla bla bs bs bs”… you do what they say in real life and i guarantee you my friend you will stay alone for most of your life… **Nice** is not the same as **Meek**. Just be _different_. Care and respect her as a person, and you will (sadly) stand out from the crowd. (Besides, wanting love and care and support does not exclude wanting other things. Most people will just mention the seemingly unique traits, those things that stand out because they are rare in the masses.) In 10 months on that dating site, I have chatted (to varying degrees) with over 200 people (probably 90% men), 😉 and had first dates with maybe 90 (those with whom I had more in depth conversations). (It sounds like a lot, but you must remember this is my entire dating lifetime. Most people start in kindergarten with handholding, etc.) So, all that chatting boils down to men complain women are too tenuous (specifically seeming “sex-fearful”); women complain men are too aggressive (seeming _only_ sex-seeking). Funny thing is, this is a self-perpetuating cycle. Personally, guys that are too “aggressive,” I retreat from. (They give off the impression that they are desperate for sex from _anything_.) Guys that aren’t “aggressive” at all feel like brothers. There’s a middle ground, and the ones I hit it off with best are the ones who appear to have respect, the ones that show more depth to their personality – you know, maybe they have friends or a hobby besides sex. 😛 These are the ones that _show_ interest, but are willing to wait to see if there is more beyond the first impression. ---
**Author:** ![Astrea](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/astrea/32/1928_2.png) [@Astrea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Astrea)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/50 "2011-06-17T00:44:02Z")
> [@ScienceStudent](#): > > **Nice** is not the same as **Meek**. Just be _different_. Care and respect her as a person, and you will (sadly) stand out from the crowd. **(Besides, wanting love and care and support does not exclude wanting other things. Most people will just mention the seemingly unique traits, those things that stand out because they are rare in the masses.)** > > In 10 months on that dating site, I have chatted (to varying degrees) with over 200 people (probably 90% men), 😉 and had first dates with maybe 90 (those with whom I had more in depth conversations). (It sounds like a lot, but you must remember this is my entire dating lifetime. Most people start in kindergarten with handholding, etc.) So, all that chatting boils down to men complain women are too tenuous **(specifically seeming “sex-fearful”); women complain men are too aggressive (seeming _only_ sex-seeking). Funny thing is, this is a self-perpetuating cycle.** > > Personally, guys that are too “aggressive,” I retreat from. \*\* (They give off the impression that they are desperate for sex from _anything_.) **Guys that aren’t “aggressive” at all feel like brothers. There’s a middle ground, and the ones I** hit it off with best are the ones who appear to have respect, the ones that show more depth to their personality – you know, maybe they have friends or a hobby besides sex. \*\* 😛 These are the ones that _show_ interest, but are willing to wait to see if there is more beyond the first impression. THANKYOU!!! This is an excellent distillation of all the things that we’ve been trying to get across. At least on this thread. I have seen posts stating that females are scared of sex, blah. blah. blah. AND it’s been pointed out, that sex and it’s implications have different meanings in different age groups. _Especially_ here in America. Younger girls are condemned for screwing too early - in age and in ‘too soon’ with a new person. Girls pay for not being careful. Other girls gossip and tell stories - true and lies - to other girls. And all the gods help you if it gets back to your parents!!! Guys are congratulated for fucking around. Females are not. The fact that there’s something like 60 derogatory words or so in the Oxford dictionary to describe ‘loose women’ and under 20 for a guy - ! There’s the obvious pregnancy risks, And then there is the continual battle to get younger guys to carry condoms. I know you got your mones, but did you put a damn rubber in your wallet? the contempt that some guys have for their ONS’s (oh, _her_, nah. I did her on the _first_ night, haha - I hear this a lot), STD’s - much easier for a girl to get one from a boy than the other way around. And I’m sorry, BUT SOME GUYS ARE STILL LYING ABOUT ‘DOING A CHICK’, HOW & WHAT THEY DID AND SPREADING BULLSHIT AROUND TO ANY WHO WILL LISTEN. Do you think that’s attractive? Girls will spread the word about that guy, too. So many guys, when ‘chatting up’ girls; are unaware that when you approach someone with an agenda in the back of your mind, we pick up on it. (And so do you- **if** you’re paying attention to the details). This is the first crack in your plans. Girls who are looking for more than an ONS don’t like being spoken to with the sole purpose of getting into bed. It truly comes across like you’re desperate to do anyone and it doesn’t matter who that is. If she says no, because you’re looking around the room for the next op, can you really blame her? This is **often a test** to see what you’ll do. Big points if you stay, a complete write off if you head off to the next one. And if she knows her, and likes her, she’ll inform her of how you treated the first chick. That guys is dismissed as a waste of time and space. Talking about other things, showing that you have a rounded out life, demonstrates that if all goes well, there’s going to be more to you than a fuck. Most girls don’t go out with the goal of a ONS. Most go looking for potential boyfriends. The ‘hit em hard and if they don’t respond, move on’ is seen, noted and spread around. In the bathroom, away from you. Why else do you think the group bathroom events happen on a regular basis? Girls check and analyse what’s going on, and this is where the group will offer it’s opinion. This is where you will get the red or green light. **Yes, fem’s like sex,** they also want to be able to trust the person they’re playing with and that generally takes time. Time to show you’re not just about bragging rights, that you’re not “kissing and telling” everyone you know and the bouncers as well, **that she’s not just a personal statistic!** That you will play a part in contraception; more points if you’re smart enough to carry more than one condom. I suggest 3, that’s a good first night. Yes, if you appear to be **genuinely interested in the girl in front of you** and stop looking around for the ‘hotter / better one’ she may just respond how you want her to. **No-one likes feeling used**. Learn to approach a fem without the desperate agenda smell - (or was that a mone OD?) - and you’ll get better results. **If you approach with the sole purpose of sex, there is every likelihood you’ll miss out on the ‘playa’ label and go straight to ‘user’.** Please remember, teenage girls are still told ‘you don’t just give that away to anyone’ or ‘sex is only good if you love him’ or ‘why would he buy the cow when he gets milk for free’ - I have heard all of these ridiculous platitudes told, in all seriousness, to girls as young as 14 and as old as 25! Good luck with trying to wear off the **user** label. Do you really wonder why fems say they want a nice guy? Simply put, you can be an asshole BUT if she sees that you don’t do the above; assholiness can or will be forgiven for a long time. There is a theory that you can tell what a person’s self esteem state is like by the partners they choose. It’s all about what they _think_ they deserve. This also brings into consideration that all of a person’s life and how they’ve been treated in the past by everyone - especially the previous ‘romantic’ relationships - has a direct bearing on how they respond to you. Me, personally, I don’t have these issues and the contradictory societal views on sex in this country, are NOT the norm in other western cultures. Just check ages of consent. I do as I feel like with my own pink bits, without concern - because I’m an adult and don’t care what other people think - it’s NOT their business. I go out ONLY for an ONS - I know what you want and **I don’t want to see you again.** I know the stats for finding relationship material in those venues is next to nil. But for the record, this is what my mother told me when I was 16: “If I ever find out you’re screwing around; I’ll cut your throat, throw you in the gutter and disown you. Not necessarily in that order”. Absolutely true, and from someone who was screwing around. Triple standards or what? Apologies for the novel. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ScienceStudent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@ScienceStudent](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ScienceStudent)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/51 "2011-06-17T01:21:49Z")
> [@Astrea](#): > > …Girls pay for not being careful… In psychological damage as well – all the guys that used her, or tried to, are what’s holding her back. > [@Astrea](#): > > …more points if you’re smart enough to carry more than one condom. I suggest 3, that’s a good first night… LMFAO – _ **Maybe** _ enough. 😉 Or at least bring a willingness to use alternative appendages and a generous spirit. 😛 > [@Astrea](#): > > … **No-one likes feeling used** … Hmm, I have actually overheard guys who do. 😮 > [@Astrea](#): > > …There is a theory that you can tell what a person’s self esteem state is like by the partners they choose. It’s all about what they _think_ they deserve. This also brings into consideration that all of a person’s life and how they’ve been treated in the past by everyone - especially the previous ‘romantic’ relationships - has a direct bearing on how they respond to you… NICE! If she has low self-esteem, she will only sleep with a loser (no matter how slick he acts). Keep that in mind. 😛 > [@Astrea](#): > > …Apologies for the novel. 😃 Thank you for saving me from writing the novel! ---
**Author:** ![thegentleman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/thegentleman/32/1770_2.png) [@thegentleman](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/thegentleman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:13am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/52 "2011-06-17T04:13:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Astrea** [The scent of Damiana essential oil - #3 by Mtnjim](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-scent-of-damiana-essential-oil/4795/3) > _…There is a theory that you can tell what a person’s self esteem state is like by the partners they choose. It’s all about what they_ think _they deserve. This also brings into consideration that all of a person’s life and how they’ve been treated in the past by everyone - especially the previous ‘romantic’ relationships - has a direct bearing on how they respond to you…_ This is true of both parties. As I have progressed through relationships over the last X amount of years, I see my own growth in the women I have chosen. They get to be of higher quality each and every time. ---
**Author:** ![thegentleman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/thegentleman/32/1770_2.png) [@thegentleman](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/thegentleman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/53 "2011-06-17T04:17:21Z")
Tisha’s spot on about the hugs. It used to bother me about women I was dating hugging other dudes that they barely knew, but wouldn’t even hug me. Until I learned that valuable lesson…friends hug… lovers usually don’t. Well not in the scenarios I was experiencing. I do have a move to create tension even in that friend hug, cuz we all know the typical friend hug. One persons arms over, the others under… if its a girl I want to stay out of the FZ with, or create a bit of sexual tension. When she goes in for that hug, I pull her in by taking her around the waist, with a hand or both hands on her lower back… kinda like a “you’re my woman” kind of move and let her wrap her arms around my neck. ---
**Author:** ![ScienceStudent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@ScienceStudent](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ScienceStudent)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:06am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/54 "2011-06-17T06:06:07Z")
> [@thegentleman](#): > > Tisha’s spot on about the hugs. It used to bother me about women I was dating hugging other dudes that they barely knew, but wouldn’t even hug me. Until I learned that valuable lesson…friends hug… lovers usually don’t. Well not in the scenarios I was experiencing. > I do have a move to create tension even in that friend hug, cuz we all know the typical friend hug. One persons arms over, the others under… if its a girl I want to stay out of the FZ with, or create a bit of sexual tension. When she goes in for that hug, I pull her in by taking her around the waist, with a hand or both hands on her lower back… kinda like a “you’re my woman” kind of move and let her wrap her arms around my neck. Funny. I will only hug GOOD friends. It’s taken me MONTHS of conscious effort to hug dates (on first meeting), and even then they usually have to initiate it. _I’m working on it._ Of course, the only guys I go on dates with are ones with whom I’ve had multiple text and voice conversations, so we’re kinda friend-ish first, but I’m more huggy once we’re _dating_. ---
**Author:** ![thegentleman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/thegentleman/32/1770_2.png) [@thegentleman](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/thegentleman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:13am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/55 "2011-06-17T06:13:38Z")
> [@ScienceStudent](#): > > Funny. I will only hug GOOD friends. It’s taken me MONTHS of conscious effort to hug dates (on first meeting), and even then they usually have to initiate it. _I’m working on it._ Of course, the only guys I go on dates with are ones with whom I’ve had multiple text and voice conversations, so we’re kinda friend-ish first, but I’m more huggy once we’re _dating_. I read your intro… good stuff. I feel for you, in that I know far too well the whole “serial monogamy” trap. I did that too, got into relationships that lasted years, instead of dating multiple women in order to get that experience of dating, and also fine tuning what it was I wanted in a partner. Then I went through a dry spell of many years while raising my two nieces. I sort of hid in my premade family. But I am back out there again, and yeah its like trying to learn all over again. I did the serial monogamy thing again, and now my goal is just to have fun with as many women as I can..and I mean dating of course.. in the hopes of getting it all out of my system and once again fine tuning what it is I really want out of a partner, and then setting my sights on that. ---
**Author:** ![Astrea](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/astrea/32/1928_2.png) [@Astrea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Astrea)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:50am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/56 "2011-06-17T06:50:45Z")
> [@ScienceStudent](#): > > In psychological damage as well – all the guys that used her, or tried to, are what’s holding her back. > > Oh my bad! I assumed that even guys would understand that the situations I mentioned RESULT in psych damage. Thanx for explaining it for them. 😃 > > LMFAO – _ **Maybe** _ enough. 😉 Or at least bring a willingness to use alternative appendages and a generous spirit. 😛 > > On a first night 3 shows he’s not a playa carrying a box around because he such a he-whore; and gives her the opportunity to provide some too - they are expensive unless you buy the 40 box. 😉 I buy the 40 . . . > > Hmm, I have actually overheard guys who do. 😮 > > Yes, but with their _ **consent** _; I’ve had a couple of guys tell me I could use them “anytime you like”. But it’s a _ **game** _\*, \*with a beginning and an end. We’re talking about unthinking carelessness that ignores feelings and ramifications. > > NICE! If she has low self-esteem, she will only sleep with a loser (no matter how slick he acts). Keep that in mind. 😛 > > Too true. How many times do you hear: " I just don’t get it. She / he’s just an asshole and X is so nice, a good person, blah blah. They **deserve** so much better " > > Thank you for saving me from writing the novel! Anything to lighten your end of school year burden. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ScienceStudent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@ScienceStudent](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ScienceStudent)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 7:27am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/57 "2011-06-17T07:27:45Z")
> [@Astrea](#): > > On a first night 3 shows he’s not a playa carrying a box around because he such a he-whore; and gives her the opportunity to provide some too - they are expensive unless you buy the 40 box. 😉 I buy the 40 . . . I was teasing. I would think a guy a slut if he carried more, but three is acceptable in general preparedness. That reminds me, I need to go shopping. And get some coffee. 😉 > [@Astrea](#): > > Yes, but with their _ **consent** _; I’ve had a couple of guys tell me I could use them “anytime you like”. But it’s a _ **game** _\*, \*with a beginning and an end. We’re talking about unthinking carelessness that ignores feelings and ramifications. Ah, yes, the nefarious connotations of “consent.” I think most people think if the act is agreed to in the heat of the moment, it is “consent.” However, _I_ never take a gal’s word if she is drunk on alcohol or endorphins. 😉 > [@Astrea](#): > > NICE! If she has low self-esteem, she will only sleep with a loser (no matter how slick he acts). Keep that in mind. 😛 > > Too true. How many times do you hear: " I just don’t get it. She / he’s just an asshole and X is so nice, a good person, blah blah. They **deserve** so much better " Hah, I was thinking more along the lines of a nice rumor to start…“The only guys who get first-date sex are losers.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Astrea](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/astrea/32/1928_2.png) [@Astrea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Astrea)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 7:58am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/58 "2011-06-17T07:58:14Z")
> [@ScienceStudent](#): > > I was teasing. I would think a guy a slut if he carried more, but three is acceptable in general preparedness. That reminds me, I need to go shopping. And get some coffee. 😉 > > Get Tully’s Espresso style - the yummiest. > > Ah, yes, the nefarious connotations of “consent.” I think most people think if the act is agreed to in the heat of the moment, it is “consent.” However, _I_ never take a gal’s word if she is drunk on alcohol or endorphins. 😉 > > True, I don’t consider anything consent unless it’s given while sober. In every way. > > **Hah, I was thinking more along the lines of a nice rumor to start…“The only guys who get first-date sex are losers.”** 😃 **Damn girl!!! You made me LOL literally! Again! Thankyou!** 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jabez](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jabez/32/2193_2.png) [@Jabez](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jabez)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/59 "2011-06-17T15:51:06Z")
Best thing is to not even let your self get in the friend zone in the first place. Last time I was in the friend zone was when 13? or 14? I think the friend zone is a waste of time if you are attracted to a girl. Only girls I have in my friends zone are hot ones who I refuse to sleep with. Ugly by my standards like 8s,8.5s. Probably what others would consider 10s. See I refuse to settle for less then a Dime. maybe a 9 or a 9.5 if she has a good sense of humor. But just do not allow your self to get in the friend zone in the first place man. ---
**Author:** ![smiley2493](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/smiley2493/32/1838_2.png) [@smiley2493](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/smiley2493)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/60 "2011-06-17T16:56:50Z")
=) Lol..i hat uniqueness!! it complicates these matters so much. So many different brands and blends making my head spin, i wish there was just one pheromone..that did EVERYTHING! ---
**Author:** ![ScienceStudent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@ScienceStudent](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ScienceStudent)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712/61 "2011-06-17T17:14:46Z")
> [@smiley2493](#): > > =) Lol..i hat uniqueness!! it complicates these matters so much. So many different brands and blends making my head spin, i wish there was just one pheromone..that did EVERYTHING! You and me both. 😛 (It could go both ways you know!) 😉 A happy demeanor and a healthy, balanced “self” is the most universally attractant I’ve heard of. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/friend-zone-permanent-or-temporary/50712.md?page=2)