# Getting the Woman. **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [September 3, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612 "2012-09-03T19:38:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/21 "2012-09-11T14:08:28Z")
For the sarcasm, make sure you blow up the facial expressions. Wide eyes, open mouth shock and awe go over very well. Here is a link to high success ‘routines’ for attraction. [Attraction Building Routines | Social & Dating Coaching | Attractology](http://www.attractology.com/articles/outer-game/attraction-building-routines/) I have seen top guys use some of those in field. The 3 questions is good. Mehow’s is good. The masterbation joke can be good if your delivery is spot on. The best part of routines is the have been tested by hundreds of guys and proved to work countless times. So once you get them to work, as most wont at first, you know you have the tone, body language and delivery correct so you can stop using them. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/22 "2012-09-11T14:26:11Z")
**Special Approach of David X - Honesty** For those not in the community of PUA at all know not of who David X is. I in fact know as a fact the better known top guys have went to him for help. One guy has a name that starts with an M and makes thousands off of this guys help. His approach is unique. He has no system. He is in fact ugly. He is old. He is fat. But if you take a bootcamp with him you will see him pull women, and he is known to pull them for other guys. I know it sounds like I love this guy, but he will do a phone chat with you to solve inner game and solve sticking points for under $100, and he includes this for each student in a boot camp. He has been doing this for 15 years I believe. He was a guru to David D, who is considered a grandfather of modern PUA. I will steal some of David X’s thunder and share the basics of his system. He is about honesty. **HONESTY.** If you like a girl you go up to her and let her know. You are honest. You are direct. He is a ‘Direct’ guy and does not use openers. You are a man, as he calls it. You go after a woman because you like women, you enjoy their feminine energy. His inner game stuff is great. He focuses on being a man. Knowing what you want and going after it is what men do, so he suggests you do that. He wants you to be honest. If knwo what you want, and what you do not want, and go after it. If you dislike what a woman says or does, you do not hide it. 90% of what he teaches is knowing what you want and being a man. His philosophy is woman do not know what they want most of the time, and really just want a man. Some will like you, others will not. But it is not for looks, women never say they want a stud, they want a smart guy, or a funny guy, or charismatic. Guys need to stop doing what they think women want and just be men. While David X has no system, his approach follows a simular structure as other guys, he just has it in no order or structure. His system is like RSD. You do a lot of qualifying and vibing to get to know a woman, and you build attraction by being a man and all the qualities that come with it. Honesty is attractive, being assertive is attractive, and so on. A real man is attractive. If you go into a situation with the intent of being honest with a woman to get to know her, maybe be friends as well, and spike some attraction, the bulk of the job is done for you The hard part becomes the nuances PUA can teach and closing. But experience is key to figuring that stuff out, so you can just go about this naturally. I’d suggest being a man, knowing what you want, and being honest to find someone you connect with. That is what David X’s system boils down to. And goodness, his system is a lot cheaper than all other PUA systems. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/23 "2012-09-13T16:42:43Z")
I am going out now, but had an adventure which I realized how I blow out an obstacle. I have a couple things lined up to post about, about my own PUA style. Natural approach is how I roll and I think it would be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/24 "2012-09-13T21:09:40Z")
**AMOG and Instant Wingmen** AMOG is a term used in PUA for Alpha Male Other Guy. It, as a phrase, has had many meanings, but it has been reincarnated with many definitions but I prefer AMOG as alpha male other guy. The reason for this is you can find Alpha males who can be friends or enemies. Obstacles or Wingmen. When you are in the field, you can sit back and observe guys making an attempt to pick up women and failing. This is where my personal game shines. I do this all the time, and it works quite simply. If the guy is blowing out, from the start, as jumping in and asking question after question. If the girls are getting bored, this is where I dive in. I do something called proximity. I am near them either sitting or standing near by having fun with my buddys. I then turn around, jump in, and pat the other guy on the back and ask who he is dating in the group, or who he trying to pick up. He will either get aggressive, get huge anxiety, or finally the girls will answer for him. No matter how he responds, or the group, I reply with a simple response of, “Ph, nive try buddy, you almost have her!” I then enter the group, introduce myself, and start the work. You must be fun and high energy. It is easy to blow out another guy. It just takes balls. Here in lies the problem. If you are not higher energy, confident and able to defend yourself, other guys can get in your face and start something. I have never got into a fight because I talk him down, or am ready to go. I am aware how to defend myself so it is not a big deal. Here comes the second part of AMOG’s. You can make them your instant wing. How I handle the situation is I do not like to blow other guys out. I make them an instant-wing. An insta-wing is a wingman who is you just met. For those who are not versed in a wingman is, he is a guy who helps you pick up a woman. Plain and simple. You go out with wingmen to help you and raise your value and handle obstacles such as AMOGs and girlfriends. When you go up to a group when a guy is talking to women and trying to talk to women, befriending him is huge. A lot of advanced tactics revolve around the concept of handling groups. Finding out who is dating who, how they all know each other, and who is interested in who. By going in and becoming the friend of the Alpha male guy simply projects a lot of good qualities. It projects the traits that you have a lot of friends, social proof, are the leader of men, etc. So, you go in, say hey buddy, slap him on the back, and say “Who are your new friends?” They will introduce themselves if he does not know them, if so he will be cold. Then you ask who he is ‘with’. If he just approached you very casually build him up to who he is talking to. You say he does amazing things, say he is the coolest guy, ect. As long as you never put him down, he will befriend you. You use him to enter into their conversation, and talk to another girl and entertain who ever he is not talking to. It is text book game after you befriend him. If you get blown out or they leave or it gets dry for you, you eject, shake his hand, and leave. When you run into him later, you are his new best friend, instant wingman. If you two get going with the ladies, it is important to get the number of a girl quick, and keep building a good vibe. This is to make it feel like you are all just a group of friends. I did both last night. I saw a guy go into a group of girls sitting on a couch, after he followed them inside, he attemnpted to chat them up, and I was chatting with my buddy for a while. He shot question after question as the attractive, busty blonde, and ignored her friends. Her friend who obviously never gets hit on (Not bad looking, I would consider her a solid 9, just conservative looking) hooked, someone had the gull to approach. He obviously did not want to talk to her. I learned a lot about her be using a proximity and being nearby, by he keep slowing down the conversation and trying to re-ignitiate with the girl he was attracted to. He lied about wanting ot move back to Rome, and spewed some other nonsense to get her interested. Keep in mind these were all young people, 18 - 21. I decided I had interest in the brunette conservative girl who was talking to the AMOG, so I went in, said hellop, asked whop he was trying to pick up. He got red, and I turned to the girls and asked who is he with, they giggled and said no one. The brunette got flustered and got an attitude. He left, I introduced myself, and told the girl I was interested in to settle down, I am 10x more social than Mr. Stick in the mud. I proceeded to obviously hit on the girl the other guy was, until the brunette got more upset, so I look at her and told her I like her energy, she had a captivating demon. I then went off into a Cold Read on how I got the intellectual firecracker vibe from her. The interaction went well, I got her email so she could help my with my homework (I did a Future Adventure Projection early on about homework), then phone number, then I told her she had to have a study date with me, because I left my good crayons in my other pants. She thought I was great, fun, confident, and ballsy all because I messed nothing up and blew the other guy out. I then went back with my buddy and keep the good energy going. Now, if I wanted an instawing I would have attempted to build up the guy to the blonde, and isolated the girl I was interested in and spoke with the third friend and the one I wanted to date. But, that was a LOT more work. That brings me to my next topic, my game… **My Personal Game** I have done and tried every ‘method’ under the sun, with little success. I do not use all of the tricks I speak about on here, and will eventually go over all I use. I try to cover everything under the sun. So, what do I do? My approach is simple… 1. I AM A BOMB! When I approach a group, or a girl I ensure I explode into her. I jump in, show confidence, and show up out of no where. I never wait for IOI’s. I just jump in. The reason I do it is multi-dimensional, but in the purest form, I do it simply to save time. If I sit in my seat and get into my head, scan for IOI’s, and get bored I struggle to be confident when I approach. Plus, on several occasions I dive into a group before they even notice me, and they are taken off guard. I am not in their faces and being creepy, but I tend to go the road of, “Hi guys, _Insert Indirect Opener_” I will throw an indirect opener or throw a direct opener out. A cold read is often used when I jump in. My opener is “Hi” and the typical opener is my conversational thread, my first one. I find myself going direct when I am not in clubs or bars because Honesty is huge for building a connection. 1. What I say/my ATTRACTION It is not what I say, but how I say it. I do ask questions, but find that I ask sincere questions. If you are actually curious and honest questions work. I stick with statements. Every statement I say is a form of a Cold Read. “You look sassy/fun/sparkly/etc” are my fun time fillers. Later on or when I want to get to know a girl I make a cold read on what I think she may do, or want, or her history. It is simple yet effective. I start to build rapport and qualify in attraction. I use my verbal skills and experience to build attraction. I tease her on a stupid or funny thing. I have been called a dick for teasing a girl a bit too much. I quip a funny statement like, “Who doesnt love dicks though?” I re-frame any negativity. I do a lot of talking, and I multi-thread but I always cut off the girl who I am attracted to when she wants to interject. Like a little girl who wants to impress me, but I do not value her opinion enough to listen. When she qualifies to me a few times, and I convey that I actually like what she is saying, I compliment her, and tell her to give me her number. I build up from email to number. I ask for the email early on in attraction and build into a number within ten minutes. For anyone else I tend to advise facebook over email because it is easier to get this this day and age, but I prefer email for a number of personal reasons, 1. Building a good Vibe I then turn my interest exclusively to her, and at this point her friends like me, and I let her eventually let her make a point. We banter, and I do a Future Adventure Projection or Role Play at this point. I use one of these two to establish a fun vibe and then we get to know each other and have fun. When we are chatting when her friends are with her I use Push-Pull. I will compliment or touch and use a neg or be cold/distant. I use this to keep the emotional yo-yo going. I keep touch going and build familiarity to establish a connection. If we are alone, I use an “Almost Kiss”. This step. I find I need to trust, comfort and fill time. I will lead her around, keep qualifying, and fill time via re-hashing a previous conversational thread. A conversational thread I often, well, the vast majority of the time I bring up is the adventure projection or role play. If she is my body guard, I bring it up, tease her for doing a bad job. 1. Close. Closing is great. You must close every interaction. If you close to close early on you may not get a kiss or huge. I use the close to build tension. I already pushed in comfort, she expects something more, so I initiate and eventually stop and say goodbye. I will re-initiate when alone and things get sexual, but I always stop and go, push and pull, I use tension to keep attraction going. ---
**Author:** ![hypersimmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/bb73d2/32.png) [@hypersimmo](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/hypersimmo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/25 "2012-09-15T03:26:06Z")
Hi KIMBA, thanks so much for this excellent advice, would I be able to apply this to girls my age (in college) ok? Should I just approach a group of girls for day game, or just one on her own? Thanks Mark ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/26 "2012-09-15T21:46:47Z")
I am college age. In fact, me BEST experiences in game were at college campuses. For day game, approach a girl alone. In general, when you approach you need to go indirect, which is weird during the day. It is immensely harder to isolate the girl you like during the day. It is possible. But unless you have experience, I would stay away from that course of action. Using the tools I listed in this thread, you can work on your social circle during the day. Go indirect, build attraction, and get the number to hang out. You lock them in the friend zone but keep spiking attraction like you wanted them. Most attractive women have attractive friends, and social circle game is just about the easiest way to meet woman. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/27 "2012-09-15T22:26:32Z")
**Escalate Physically** I know, I know. I said before Vin Dicarlo has a program which is easy to find for free, but I have a slightly modified approach that I find works better, so I though I would share. How do you stay out of the friend zone? TOUCH. When you go out and meet a girl, going for a hug is often a big thing of comfort and connection you must build up to. But guys who get women naturally assume that comfort. You need to be acceptable touching a woman early on, or else she will disqualify you as a mate. So, how do you go about this? You have a staircase of touching of what is acceptable and not. The first step is friendly touching on safe areas. This is the hand shake, the grazing her arm, touching her upper back, and so on. The second step up is more overt in nature in unsafe areas. After doing friendly touching for a good five minutes, you attempt to touch her knee, lower back, or her stomach with the back of your hand. After you can do that without a flinch or negative reaction you can stay on the level you hit. After that you can kick it up a notch. Level three is neck touching, hair touching, and face. It is the hardest portion because this is where women freak out if you dive in. Level four is kissing, and getting intimate. This is the standard ladder of touching. How does mine differ? In level one I almost always spin a girl. I will pull her in to me in level two, forcing her to come closer (Gently) to force compliance. Level three is where I get different. I will bite, pinch, pull or tug hair and so on. Something else in level three I have some go-to’s. I tend to playfully slap, and I also tend to do something which helps me to push super far into touching, I run her ear lobes. It is simple, she will give a strange look, but she LOVES it. Guys NEVER do it. It is like biting her lower lip when kissing. If she does it to you, she would like it done to her. The key is to push until she stops showing signs of comfort, backing up slightly, then continue on that level. You will mess this up. You need to read her comfort signs, some girls will let you jump til the close in 5 minutes, others 5 hours. When you push with touching you need to ensure that you do not talk about the touching, but normal stuff. The key to my touching is to be different,m confident, and lead. In day game touching is not cool. It does not work, so leading replaces it. Leading is just as important as touching. You can solve shit tests by touching. A shit test is a test of your congruence. So by touching her and leading the interaction when she attempts to throw you off your game, plowing through shows you are even more and greater of a man than she expected, so you answered her test PERFECTLY. And of course, a fun story goes with this. I have messed up touching many times. But one time in specific I royally messed up an interaction. I was at a house party at Michigan State University. I met a girl, was chatting, had touching going, and got to level two. We were chatting, I led her to a different room, and she was receptive to everything, until I went to her ear lobes. I pulled her earring off and we began to kiss. I then went for a hair tug, I pulled her weave slightly off. I knew I should not have, I knew she had a weave (She was mixed, so in my defense, it may not have been). For those who do not know, when you do that to a woman, she FREAKED out. I learned to pay more attention to her signs and signals. ---
**Author:** ![PMI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/85e7bf/32.png) [@PMI](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PMI)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/28 "2012-09-16T01:19:06Z")
> [@KIMBA](#): > > In day game touching is not cool. It does not work, so leading replaces it. > > Leading is just as important as touching. Could you, please, explain more “leading”, not sure I get it enough. Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2012, 1:18pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/29 "2012-09-16T13:18:44Z")
Leading is taking control of an interaction. You take her by the hand and take her to the bar, you lead her to the next spot. If you tell a woman to come with you, she will, as long as you say it with authority, You need to build a level of compliance, but if you keep it short and simple she will follow. If you meet her in a store, you help her get her stuff and lead her to the checkout. You meet her in a library you lead her to thwe book she is looking for. It is never, let me help you do thisa, its always LETS DO THIS. Leading is how you establish you are an Alpha male in charge, and it shows in any and all situations. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 8:05am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/30 "2012-09-18T08:05:50Z")
A short segment on Approach Anxeity, and Pulling a Waitress/ **AA - Approach Anxeity** Besides the fact I cant spell ‘Anxeity’ for the life of me, AA is a huge problem. AA could be any fear or nervousness that flashes into your head before you approach which prevents you from doing so. It boils down to your body’s reaction to a new situation, an unknown situation. The anxeity, no matter hopw it manufests, is the root cause. I, for example, get AA in the form of I rationalize what could go wrong. This is the most common among PUA circles. You say, “She will shoot me down” or “She will blow me out in front of my friends” or some other rational thought. Here is the first problem. GET OUT OF YOUR HEAD. If you do not think, then you do not face self doubt. When you approach, it should be automatic. The three second rule is in reality too long, the best results, the results naturals get, come from the instant approach. As aforementioned, GOING OFF LIKE A BOMB is not about waiting for her to make eye contact or you getting the courage to approach. It is instantly appaching every new person you meet. By repitition you reduce AA. It never goes away, which a LOT of guys tell you. I equate it to when I first competed in MMA. I was 260 ;ns of goo, I lost 25 lbs from boxing and competing but was out of shape. In front of strangets I was forced to wear no shirt, wear tiny Vale Tudo shorts, and fight a wrestler, which means I would be on my back a lot. WHen I punched, I giggled. Even now, I am not in perfect shape and come in flabby. But it is not as bad. Each time I competed the pressure lessened. If my stress was at 100 for my fiorst time, the secodn time was 75, and by now it is a 10. No big deal. In PUA, you should do enough sets so you get the reference experience to nkow things will end well. If you approach 1000 sets, even when bad, 950 will be ok. I do not mean number close or sex, but she will be nice. Now, when it does go wrong, how bad could it be? Try an old David DeAnfelo exercise. Think of the worst things she could do to you., Pants you. Pull your weiner out and mock its size. Call you a fat, ugly troll. Say your dead mother is in hell sleeping with satan. WHAT EVER your WORST THOUGHT is, get someone to say it to you or do it. Realize how ABSURD it is. Who CARES what a stranger thinks or says. Not you. They do not know you and are not the type of woman you should want, she would be a shallow female dog. Now, in reality, go out and mess a set up. Let it happen, it always will even to experts. Realize at worst she will blow you off, or maybe insult you slightyly if you come in with a creepy opener. Come in normal and you will not get a rough landing. Other guys struggle with anxeity to preform, which is a sexual fear. Any other fear or issue like this comes down to reframing. You cant preform?\> No, you gave great self control and are teasing her. The difference is HUGE. One more caviat I can offer, one which helped me. I created this one, I combined a strategy athletes use, visualization. If you are even in your head or have self doubt or do not want to approach, imagine your ideal self, and how they would approach. They would approach with confidence and no fear. What would they say? How would the women react? When you imagine this picture, get up and go do those actions. It should be a few secodn process, but it helps in a great way. **Pulling a Waitress** I have pulled, counting last night, a solid dozen waitresses. Pull as in got her number, got her to sit with me, and take her home (Well I went to her place nearly every time.) I have done it to show guys it is not impossible, because some guys actually think it is. The same steps you use with a waitress, or a store clerk, or a stripper are the same. A lot of it comes down to logistics. Odds are it will not work. You need to figure out or know three tings: 1. When her shift ends 2. Where you are going 3. Her coworkers will not judge her or will not find out In PUA, I am the guy who if you let me sit down with a girl and do my thing, I make it happen. If I have time to calibrate and reframe myself to show the qualities she needs to see, combined with my natural wit and endless sea of PUA knowledge, I have a high sucess rate. Kine is so-so, so is story telling for me. ANd I do not do magic or routines, or ‘Flash Game’. Which means a hired gun, as they are known, is perfect for my game. How do I do it? Step one is I always tease her. I only had one stripper number and kiss close, but it worked the same way. I did two store clerks, and if I had more time to shop I know it would be a higher number. I digress, you tease. You make fun of a manorism, or a habbit, or I normally make fun of her being overtly polite and say I am here for the food, not a servant, and tell her to relax. You do this to take her out of the 'work; and ‘service’ loop and routine she is in. Once you do that, you establish you are a real person, I still tease so she remembers you and you can re-engage conversation. If you tease her she will want to come back to you same if you use some Push Pull. You already set the frame form her working, to her chasing you. I then mis-interprit what she does as a come on. A waitress offers me extra napkins or a refill, I quip back “Is that your pick up line??” Or “I would never, I barely know you.” Or something along those lines. If with a buddy I would say, “Most women do not come on to me so fast, I like your style.” Then I turn to my buddy and say, “She is totally into me.” I play and tease her until we are having our own conversation she cant leave. After I eat I tease her for letting other customers go unattended, and suggest we not get her in trouble and swap numbers to do it again. At this point it is a normal pick up. I make sure to touch her hand when she get me things, I always ask for something extra or dessert to get her to come back and figure out the situation. I ask if she wanted to hang out after work, I am free at X time which is when I know she will be off. I offer to pick her up their. I have a thing for a woman in a uniform, I do, it is weird. ANY uniform as in cop, waitress, anything. So I am cool if she wears her uniform. Normally she wants to change. If she wants to change, I drive her to her house, then it is a classic close. If she does not want to change, it is not an actual date, she is in work clothes, we are hanging out but already are into vibing. We always go to get drinks or if she is not 21 we get coffee or something and it is a normal pick up. I LOVE working girl closes. You can get this up HOURS before she gets off of work. She will think about it and you all day. Anticipation. I just pulled a girl last night from a local diner. Now I set pretty high standards, but I tend to filter out girls going to school or it is a night job or so on. You still filter out for a woman who is your type. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 9:02am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/31 "2012-09-20T09:02:27Z")
**Banter and being FUN** Banter is a term used overtly for having fun with conversation. My game, the techniques and speaking habits I have are all Banter. Banter is role plays,FAP’s, Cold Reads and Playful one liners. Banter is ATTRACTION material. This is the hook, where you single out Banter by definition is: > [@](#): > > The playful and friendly exchange of teasing remarks. Any statement or question that is playful and takes the woman out of her reality and into fun zone is what your goal is. Banter is only funny to who you are doing it with. You are not the funny guy, you are fun. Examples: - You are sassy - Where is her off switch? - That is so cute, trying to act like a big girl. These are the true PICK UP LINES. Banter is something that you can bounce off of to continue a shared reality of fun. This is why I do not use routines, they are not fun. Banter is fun for you and the woman. You do not need these lines, you simply need to be playful. This shared reality you create is about being in a fun bubble she MUST be apart of. You are the most interesting guy she will meet because of this. What puts you into this reality? A role play. Classic PUA example is calling her your kid sister, busting her on her sister-like habits. That continues to expand to what she is wearing is found in the misses section and so on. A future adventure projection is how she is your little sister who you need to protect from bullys/other men in the bar. The key to this, over lines and routines is the woman responds. It is a fun and real interaction between two people. This is a skill you need to practice. Unlike PUA material inm general. you can use this with anyone. Its about imagination and having fun. Do it with coworkers, family, and friends. Guys banter with sarcasm. Since I had gotten into self help, and then PUA, I used banter in all my interactions with close friends before I knew it worked with women. It is female banter, light and fun, that makes any interaction positive and fun. Get out, and try it. Using banter will slide you into comfort, vibe, rapport, touching and so on. ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 1:02pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/32 "2012-09-20T13:02:08Z")
> [@](#): > > By repitition you reduce AA. It never goes away, which a LOT of guys tell you. How do you know that it can never go away? I haven’t done that many approaches that were completely cold to say that I completely eliminated the issue for myself. In some setting I however feel no anxiety about approaching. I don’t feel anxiety about asking an attractive woman I never meet before to dance salsa at a salsa place. At a personal development seminar with 500 people I attended recently I also had a lot of the time no AA when it comes to approaching a woman in the break. And I wouldn’t say that I have mad PUA skills. I know someone who seems to have more problems with walking a street and resisting the temptation to approach women then with AA. Some people seem to lose AA with time while other people can do 1000s of sets and still have it. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/33 "2012-09-20T21:17:22Z")
> [@JohnM](#): > > How do you know that it can never go away? > > I haven’t done that many approaches that were completely cold to say that I completely eliminated the issue for myself. > In some setting I however feel no anxiety about approaching. > I don’t feel anxiety about asking an attractive woman I never meet before to dance salsa at a salsa place. > At a personal development seminar with 500 people I attended recently I also had a lot of the time no AA when it comes to approaching a woman in the break. > And I wouldn’t say that I have mad PUA skills. > > I know someone who seems to have more problems with walking a street and resisting the temptation to approach women then with AA. > Some people seem to lose AA with time while other people can do 1000s of sets and still have it. You bring up a fantastic point that few PUA ‘gurus’ approach, Momentum. AA is often mislabled as such. AA is often social anxiety. AA is negated with momentum. This is how PUA gurus and you may have gotten rid of it. Or, managed it. AA is a fear of the unknown. It is both biological to protect us from those who would harm or hunter/gatherer clan (According to the Mystery Method) and by social engineering by your parents in the respect that strangers are ‘bad’. AA gets compounded by social fears of rejection and being humiliated. This does never go away. We are all designed to fear the unknown. How do PUA guys get over it? Although not explicitly stated, they call it ‘warm up sets’ where you go in, and run a few sets just to get the social muscles moving. Guys who teach this for a living will bomb out infront of students a few times and then hit a grove and do amazing. I have seen it at a bootcamp with a top guy, Tyler Durden, first hand. This is momentum. You get the social muscles moving and get through anxiety. But, normal guys use momentum differently; If you go to a diner a few times a week, know the staff, they all greet you and are kind, you have no AA over going up to a woman at that location In your social circle or a school club, you know the people, and have the momentum from positive reference material to eliminate that underlying fear. It is safe to approach. Conversely if I throw you into an Itilian club where you cant speak the language, I push you into a two set with one body builder who is chatting up a solid 11, yes an 11. She owns the place, is literal royalty, and is your perfect type of woman, you will feel some anxiety. You may be able to handle the anxiety, but that is due to momentum in your life. PUA is about getting out of your comfort zone. Cold Approaching is a rough game. You will get shot down., You will remember that one rough shot down over a dozen good interactions. If you are the type of guy who pushes his comfort barrier, goes to foreign environments, looks into self development, does improv classes, etc, then you are the type of guy who has positive momentum and handles AA in everyday life. That fear of new environments is real, but you address it with small steps daily. You may not feel like meeting 500 new people at a self help seminar but did it anyways. It starts when you wake up. If your paper boy throws the papar in the street, most figure they can go and get it, but you go up to the kid one morning and tell him to get it correct. At a store they over charge you one cent, and you figure it is not worth the hastle to ask for it, but do it anyways. It is positive momentum. Any experience in life which you may not want to do or feel anxious about is a microcosm of AA. By tackling these head on, you solve the built up anxiety that would occur at a larger hurdle. You sound like the type of guy who does this small stuff already, tackles things head on. You handle the fear. Stop doing it for a while and it will build up. This is why the fear never goes away, you condition yourself that it is ok to do what is not biologically safe, to suit your desires, that engineering never will end. You build up reference experience that are positive by taking these small steps and they help. Guys who jup into PUA and change their lives for it and teach cant articulate points like this, it does not exist. They already do things they do not want to get things they desire. This treads into being an Alpha Male. It is tossed around a lot in the community, but on a base level, Alpha is having your life in order and taking charge as a man. Alpha men build up the reality of positive momentum and do not even understand AA. You are at the point that most guys desire to be. You are working on a real attractive lifestyle and the perks with it is women tend to sort them selves out. Learning PUA is learning the language of women, something men should know, but inversely you have learned enough to do fine. Keep living a proactive lifestyle and going after what you want, and being an Alpha and AA will be a mere blimp on your radar most of the time. On occasion you will feel uneasy, but with simple AA handling you can avoid it. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold1982](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/cc9497/32.png) [@Arnold1982](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Arnold1982)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/34 "2012-09-20T22:02:05Z")
So true. I’m an academic with a very decent income. I keep fit and I daresay I’m fairly athletic. I can hold enjoyable conversations and I like to make people smile. I’m told I’m generous and kind. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 8:25am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/35 "2012-09-21T08:25:32Z")
I can talk about AA and social anxiety for hours, I have so many ways to get over it and so many stories to help illustrate my points. I can expand as desired on any topic or question, just chime in. **How to get better at this and the mindset for attraction.** How does one ideally get better at PUA? To constantly improve t anything, you need new information, new experience, or a new mentor. If you have read what I have posted, then you have a new mentor. I can answer any question or find a source to the answer. You then have new information. Go out with a good buddy at meeting women, or join a PUA lair, you have a direct mentor. That leaves one other way, getting ‘in the field’ and meeting women. This is an important topic had to cover for anyone wanting to get better at this. The first hurdle I will tackle is CLUBS AND BARS. Now, they are the **WORST** places to meet women. I mean, you will get better results at a elementary school. (Teachers anyone?). Why are they bad? First off is the club mentality. Most women see you as the club guy, and not a real person, even if they go home with you. Unless you have a GREAT comfort/vibe game and can build a strong and fast connection, you are not a real person to her. The club mentality is deeper than that. She will put her ‘bitch’ shield up, and give you congruence tests big time. Do not get me wrong, women go to clubs to meet men or dance, but it is an emotional pumping ground for them. Loud music, lights, alcohol, men, validation, etc. It makes her feel great. Unless you are so spectacular that you can catch her attention with words when the music is blarring, handle the other dudes trying to hit on her, and keep an intoxicated woman interested when you have been drinking, go right ahead. I do club game when I have people who want to go. Women will often get sexual quicker, their are more women than an other place, and this is how you improve your game the most rapidly. For club game, it is different in approach. You will do all group approaches, so all indirect. Odds are you need a wing to handle men and obstacles. You will need to have a strong frame to handle congruence tests. You also will need to learn flash game and routines. Think of Myatery from the Mystery Method and the Pick Up Artist show on VH1. It is a different type of game, but your goal is one night stands. You ‘game’ is quicker, harder hitting, and less natural. You do not drink in club game. Some guys do, they are most often not the elite, as drinking slows your verbal game to a crawl and also tends to make your body language horrible. It can be rough in the club. But, a club has training wheels, you get more approaches, you work on more skills, and you can improve greatly in one night in handling rejection, approaching, opening and early things, where most guys struggle. If someone wants a break down of how I club game, they can ask. To briefly describe it is I am social, and I have fun If I talk to someone I am the guy having the time of his life so they want into my group. Bars are lower key, but you can come off the creeper, and odds are greater she has friends to shoot you down. At a club you can get away with dancing with a woman and isolating easier than at a bar. The difference is bars and clubs establish you as not a real person, and just a fun guy. But not a fun guy as in we need to see each other again, as in it was a one night ride, I do not like the reality. You need a flash or high energy game that lacks a real connection to pull drunk girls or women at a club. Your phone numbers will most often flake. Unless you spend a lot of time solidifying yourself she will not respond, and still may not with the time. I am talking ours in the club building a connection, which is why club and group guys use routines. This environment has its place to learn. I advise you go to a club or bar a few times with a proven opinion opener and a couple pieces of attraction material and go out and make it work. You need to figure out tone, body language, space and touching, things you must learn. Clubs are the environment to figure it out in a few nights. Once you open with an opener consistently, you switch it to a hello. Once hello works, you know the tone, volume, body language and sub communications work. This is key as they are more important than the actual words. The gimicks of attraction and banter are to make yourself stand out from other cool guys who have approached her and make you the ‘one’. To improve past getting the essentials down pat, the words are important, so is dominance and masculinity. I suggest going out to a crowded mall and stopping strangers with a hello, and starting banter. You stay in as long as possible. You need to see when you are spinning your wheels in attraction, and when it is correct to ask questions. After you do this, you are intermediate in respect to PUA. You figured things out, as a naturals would, which gives you a huge edge up. This approach is what I did. But like any skill, if you do not use it,m you lose it. So I advocate setting aside an amount of nights a week you go out, no matter what. I find one day time and two night ideal. Just meeting new people and socializing., Two bar/club nights and one mall day. You would be surprised how quick you improve. These things come to you naturally once you start, and going out more solves most of your problems. One missing element from getting better is how to consistently improve your verbal chops. What you say. How you banter hits and if it works. To figure this out, practice it with your fiends, coworkers and people who are working at locations you frequent. Flirting or banter is light and fun, and spices up the same old same old with any interaction. With Attraction minded material I have gotten better relationships with male friends. Future Adventure Projections are hillarious with buddys. You get better by practice. View every approach that fails not as failure, as feedback. I advocate practicing attraction and opening most as vibing is a normal thing we do with guys as well, so it is natural. Once you get this handled, you want to meet a woman you desire. After doing all this practice, you then want to go to where your ideal woman would go. If you want artsy, go take an art class. Simple, no? But now you have the tools to do so. Now comes a brief section on attraction. Attraction is not a choice. Banter is a cause of emotions that leads to attraction. But some PUA companies swear by DHV spikes or displays of higher value. The Mystery Method had three, Love Systems expanded to nine. I will not go over them, it boils down to projecting positive qualities about yourself. Qualities that make you attractive. DHV is often down through stories. It does work, but it is more scripted. If this is the type of material you want, ask, I shall deliver. I use DHV spikes, do not get me wrong. I am a fighter. It is who I am. I protect my loved ones, I fight for what I want. I work hard for my desires. I stare fear in the face. My stories, my job, my lifestyle project that. Those all happen to be close to Love Systems DHV spikes. Humor, and being asocial are hits as well, which banter does hit. Being Alpha and dominant or being a masculine energy to her feminine energy is attractive. Being playful and fun is attractive. It is best to see these as attraction switches, which all women have. You cant hit them all. Do what makes you happy. You will not get all the women you meet just based on compatibility, so by beibng honest and projecting your best self, your ideal sides, you project the qualities a woman finds attractive. I can assure you, by approaching (Courage), bantering and using attraction material (Humor and Social), Vibing (Honesty), and strong body language, tone and sub communication (Alpha, Pre-Selected by women/Possitive reference experience) you will without a doubt hit one of her attraction switches, meaning she likes you. I apologize for this super sections lack of focus, I did not quite know how to articulate these points. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 8:16am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/36 "2012-09-26T08:16:35Z")
I think I am going to work on a post on the concept of DHV. And an outlook of PUA beyond the mystery method structure including Wygnet, Jeffries, and Gunwitch material and philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/37 "2012-09-27T23:19:59Z")
**Looks in Pick - Up** Do looks matter? YES. But not for what you think or connect them to. Let me preface, women do like some stereotypical attributes. Tall is good. Brown hair fares better. A short to medium hair cut fares better. So are good teeth This is according to magazines such as cosmo. A well dressed man with good fashion ranks equally as high. But before you go chop off your hair and get height surgery in China, I want to spin this concept for you. I went out tonight after the gym. I have out on about 20 lbs over the past two weeks and look sloopy. I was wearing light blue jeans, I had not brushed my teeth since the morning. I was wearing a size medium shirt, which was unattractively tight. I have niot shaved in a week and had a rough peach fuzz look going. I normally am not a ‘good looking’ guy. I was exceptionally rough. I also had some BO going on. I ended uo heavily kissing a gorgeous girl at a lounge/cafe. How? Good game.I am 5’ 11" and nothing special. I normally would not advise not showering and dressing your best, but if you realize looks do not matter, the better off you will be. A lot of PUA’s are known for having ‘lucky’ jeans they refuse toi washfor weeks at a time. A few are known fr not washing their long hair and get compliments on it. A specific PUA is known for not brushing is teeth for months and eventually getting multiple root canals. I believe most people involved in PUA know of Style, the short, bald and frail writer. Or Mystery, the pale and gigantic man. Or TD the once chubby and bearded monster he was. Looks do matter, do not get me wrong, but not that much. You can overcome bad looks with good game and supplying good emotions. I want to place some non PUA examples of bad looks. Seal the singer was married to Heidi Klum. Christina Hendrics and Geoff Arend. I could go on all day. You have seen that ugly guy, or fat guy, or weird guy with the attractive woman countless times. Do looks matter? Yes. Wear clothes that fit you, brush your teeth, shave and wear decent clean shoes, and you have all you need to do AMAZINGLY with women. ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/38 "2012-09-28T01:03:36Z")
Great post addition to your thread Kimba. I just want to say that on looks he is right. Hygiene matters the most when it comes to looks. That’s the one that will stop us in our tracks. Everyone has different preferences to. I dont like short hair on men or women for that matter. That doesn’t mean its “ugly” or “unattractive”. It doesn’t say anything about the person with the short hair at all. It says something about me. It just means that its not my preference. Dont make other peoples preferences about you, it will just harm your self esteem. One other thing to remember… Dont use cosmo as a source for anything. My GF’s and I have been reading it since we were kids and I can pretty much tell you 90% of the time they are wrong LOL. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 9:26am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/39 "2012-09-30T09:26:09Z")
Well I doubt MM will work for me as I’m not a club hopper and over 35. Let me tell you my situation as you may shed some light. Over the past 4 months I’ve been chasing a girl who works at restaurant – lets call her DV. DV has given me mixed signals but eventually i found out she had a boyfriend and was into herself. During this time a girl I ignored but said hi to frequently lets call her K was pretty much just a restaurant server I chatted with. So now picture this one day I was wearing p75 ammo summer and told K who lead me to a restaurant table that I’m a guitar player and gave her my business card. She showed extreme enthusiasm and 2weeks later when I saw her again she told me she checked out my youtube channel.. I had bought her a “gift”.. i thought of the idea… if she showed INTEREST in me first unlike DV I would give her a CD of my best songs. So I did this with her.. i personalized a note on it and gave her this romantic music played by me on guitar. Now I feel I am getting in her head and she K is only 21 much younger than me so I can’t come on too strong without seeming like a creep.. ilearned my lesson with DV who brought up the BF excuse. So now that K has made somewhat acquaintances with me and is seeing my value increased as she sees me with a GF and also sees me as an musician and seemed to chase me a bit I did something stupid but not stupid enough to screw things up.. the last time I saw her I mentioned I don’t get too see you too often and she says "well I don’t know abotu that we run into each other plenty here (meaning the restaurant).. THANk GOODNESS I didn’t ask for her # then as I was planning too. Look she realized I am in a relationship or at least dating as I have never told her I have a GF.. So she is just being friendly even if she has more in mind. How do I take things to the next level from here? I want to eventually get HER to give up her number when I ask her. But I don’t want it to be creepy. if I just ask out of the blue she will think I am easy and also creepy as I’m older and with someone. But I want to escalate beyond just a business transaction of her getting my cd. Any ideas? I want to bring her into my life without pressure. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 12:10am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/40 "2012-10-01T00:10:08Z")
MM is working for you. I dislike the MM, to be honest, but the structure is golden. It is what two people normally do to become friends or more. It boils down to: Show Value/Attraction Qualify/Find out if their is mutual interest and things in common Vibe/Have a good time and build a connection That is a normal interaction for all people. You get a new friend if you can add something of value to their life. If a woman is intrigued, interested, or see you as of value then she is attracted to you at a surface level. So this woman see’s all these positive qualities about you and see’s you as higher value already. The only problem with MM is the spark of attraction. Sometimes a woman will not feel it for you. Nothing anyone can do. Or worse, you can have so much value you become unobtainable. She will rationalize she does not like you because she feels she cant get you. I see a couple party fouls in my opinion. With DV you chased, showed interest, and she did not find you attractive. K was interested in you, and you gave her a romantic gift without even knowing her or knowing if she was worth the time to make it. Plus you went out of your way to impress her from what I gather, which means you are a interesting friend. How do you get a woman to find you as more than not a friend? First I have a few questions to throw at you. 1. Is it worth the effort? 2. Is she worth the focus? 3. Are you willng to make things worse? If all yes, its not impossible. You break comfort/rapport. You distance yourself, be a bit cold, and a few weeks later, or a few times she see’s you and you are occupied doing something else, not talking to her, and you then tell her the two of you need to catch up and tell her to give you her number. To non PUA this logic, if she has any interest in you, she will miss you. You toss a line out and she will jump on it. In PUA respect. realize that she is but one woman. Age does not matter. PULL THE TRIGGER. SHE HAS INTEREST IN YOU AS A PERSON, SO GO FOR IT. Now, how would I play it? Use your age to your advantage. Play the ‘little girl’ card, flirt and be fun. Younger gals look more for that than the serious high value man. You have high value, if you can be playful with it then you ramp up attraction on a logical and emotional level. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612.md?page=1) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612.md?page=3)