# Getting the Woman. **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [September 3, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612 "2012-09-03T19:38:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tommarty920](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/tommarty920/32/1273_2.png) [@tommarty920](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tommarty920)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/41 "2012-10-01T00:38:44Z")
> [@KIMBA](#): > > An example is how I react to insults. Or did. If a girl would insult me, I once said your mom. She woukd always giggle. It was a trick I learned to not sound so rehersed. It worked, until I got the ‘my mom is dead’ from a girl. I would apologize, she would leave. > > I would eventually calibrate so I knew when she was lying, and my counter statement became, “You mom is a dead wh_re who is in he\*\* sucking on satans d_\*\*.” I would really say that after a couple beers when out. I did it as recently as last week because a guy was trying to start a fight and his woman stepped in. Isn’t that line from the Jeffy Show(RSD)? Kudos on the excellent thread! Very thorough explanations and accurate information. After reading about and practicing various methods of PUA, I have come to a very similar conclusion as you. Mystery does have great formulas, but you can only get so far with canned openers and routines. Not to say they are useless but natural, on the spot game is what the masters play. My favorite Mystery metaphor is the Bait, Hook, Reel, Release. Have used it in many aspects of my game, including text and phone game. One example of his Bait, Hook, Reel, Release metaphor I used in a text conversation the other day: Me: I just saw the most adorable dog that reminded me of you.(Bait) Her: I reminded you of a dog!! Me: Correction, an adorable dog. Her: That’s much better than. What kind of dog?(Hook) Me: I’m not sure. All I know is that it was small, white, and furry. (Reel) Her: Awe!!! That’s so cute! 🙂 Me: No I’m just messing with you, it was a big, slobbering Saint Bernard!(which it actually was) Still kind of cute though. 😛 (Release) Her: LOL! You ass..Blah Blah Blah Ended up getting her to my place later on in the day. Been really focusing on texting game lately and constantly enjoy using Tim’s(RSD) 5 minute texting girlfriend, wife, lover, etc… Although I sometimes change the time limit anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes depending on the girl. His one liners are great if a girl is giving you attitude. Prime example, if a girl can’t hangout, you reply: Your shit. Another one of his gems that can be used in place is: What are you wearing? If anyone has never heard of his 5 minute texting girlfriend it goes something like this: You: I’ve chosen you to be my texting girlfriend for the next 5(or more) minutes. Her: Lol Ok 🙂 Great You: Where are you gonna take me for our first date? Her: (answer) You: (tease her on her answer and give a better suggestion) Back and forth until its been about 5 minutes(or more) After 5 minutes: You: Awe, now were broken up. It’s not you, it’s me. We had a good run. I want my CDs back and my favorite T-Shirt back. Etc.. The great thing about this is you can occasionally bring her back to the reality you just created. My favorite is: I just realized that we didn’t have any breakup sex. Such a shame. Etc… Looking forward to more of your posts! Can’t wait for what you say about texting and phone game seeing as this as been a sticking point for me. It’s just so damned annoying when there is no nonverbal communication like body language, tonality(except for phone game of course), and of course [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/shop/). ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/42 "2012-10-01T04:41:23Z")
> [@KIMBA](#): > > MM is working for you. > > If all yes, its not impossible. You break comfort/rapport. You distance yourself, be a bit cold, and a few weeks later, or a few times she see’s you and you are occupied doing something else, not talking to her, and you then tell her the two of you need to catch up and tell her to give you her number. What comfort/rapport? i talk to her for 30 sec every 1 week when I run into her. Nothing has been built as she is a server who takes me to a table in a restaurant and not a waitress. The problem is I am a sensitive person (musician) and not a jerk (the type who’d start fights etc lowered testosterone and maturity with age?) .. Please give me concrete ways to distance , be cold while maintaining compatibility with my persona and not making her hate me completely. Also what mones are good for this point in time.. She is 21.. I am used to using ammo IS, and summer ammo p75 around her. They are both social mones. It would be kinda wierd wearing social products and acting distant. out of these 2 which is better for distancing myself…? Are you sure MM is best for non club situations? I attend a FAMILY restaurant where she works.. There’s always kids , babies, grandparents and married couples there… If I’m cold I may be seen as very intimidating in such an environment. It’s not a nightclub! I have to act congruent with where I am or she may be puzzled. Please shed some light! ---
**Author:** ![Mysterion](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mysterion/32/986_2.png) [@Mysterion](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mysterion)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 11:44am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/43 "2012-10-01T11:44:19Z")
Hey, I find it great that you went a bit into daygaming as well. I see 95% of the people here using the mones in clubs/bars to get a woman. I do not see why no one got the guts to do some daygaming (not enough alc?). Of course they can do what ever they want, however it makes topics like this a rarity and I did not find many places to discuss daygaming on this forum. You covered both a bit. Keep the work up 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/44 "2012-10-01T13:53:41Z")
> [@Mysterion](#): > > Hey, > > I find it great that you went a bit into daygaming as well. I see 95% of the people here using the mones in clubs/bars to get a woman. I do not see why no one got the guts to do some daygaming (not enough alc?). Of course they can do what ever they want, however it makes topics like this a rarity and I did not find many places to discuss daygaming on this forum. You covered both a bit. > > Keep the work up 🙂 Was your post directed at my message? ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/45 "2012-10-01T14:35:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Are you sure MM is best for non club situations? I attend a FAMILY restaurant where she works.. The normal social custom of family restaurant isn’t chatting up servers or waitresses and asking them out. Part of being high status means that you can bend the social rules of your enviroment. Trying to bend the rules can backfire. It’s a risk. It’s an art to know how far you can go to far. The only way to find out is to try. Take risks. Learn from them. > [@](#): > > I have to act congruent with where I am or she may be puzzled. Why are you afraid that she might be puzzled? ---
**Author:** ![Mysterion](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mysterion/32/986_2.png) [@Mysterion](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mysterion)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/46 "2012-10-01T17:25:47Z")
> [@dsouza](#): > > Was your post directed at my message? No it wasn’t. But I read you’re not a club hopper so you fall into the cup too 😉 H5 bro 😃 * * * Also, KIMBA, I know you mentioned it already, but here’s something I used as advice to someone in the introduction section. I use to go into pretty deep stuff and don’t fear effort so I didn’t mind. But I want to post it here too. It’s very similar to your Anti-AA text! > [@](#): > > …] If you are interested in how to psychologically fight the anxiety: it exists because you are in a **very logical state of mind (mindset)**. In order to start a conversation or flirt you **need to be spontaneous and creative**. Your body feels imcomfortable because you imagine doing a thing you totally are not in the ‘mindset’ to do. You can start doing things that require a little spontaneity and creativity - the more you do, the more your state of mind will move towards the other side where you want to be. Example: If you talk to 100 people asking them for a way or time (which shouldn’t require lotsa guts), approaching a girl will be MUCH easier. > And if you are in the logical mindset again next day, it will be much easier to switch sides. It will only take you 2 minutes of approaching people asking for time or way. > And eventually you’ll be able to switch between the mindsets as you please. > All credit for this valuable information goes to _Andy Yosha_, an awesome teacher, ha! > …] > Always keep in mind… anxiety is your worst enemy in life. You can’t fully live your life if anxiety blocks the path. But that anxiety goes down every time you strike once. It feels fearsome, but it is weak. Just approach a girl; jump into the cold water. Anxiety will be weakened. > It will never disappear - after all anxiety is a feeling and feeling it means you are alive 🙂 > Still, whenever you feel anxiety - don’t hesitate and go for it. Whenever it shows itself, strike it down. Very similar - and very correctly you say AA never completely disappears. But people wonder why the good PUA sometimes have difficulties holding back and NOT approaching a woman? That’s because they developed the “switch” that triggers every time they start feeling anxiety, and leads to do whatever they fear head-on to fight the Anxiety (within reason…), it will never build up enough to be a blockade in your road called life. Hope it helped! =) Thanks KIMBA, awesome thread. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/47 "2012-10-01T21:34:16Z")
WOW! This thread is hopping. > [@tommarty920](#): > > Isn’t that line from the Jeffy Show(RSD)? > > Kudos on the excellent thread! Very thorough explanations and accurate information. After reading about and practicing various methods of PUA, I have come to a very similar conclusion as you. Mystery does have great formulas, but you can only get so far with canned openers and routines. Not to say they are useless but natural, on the spot game is what the masters play. My favorite Mystery metaphor is the Bait, Hook, Reel, Release. Have used it in many aspects of my game, including text and phone game. > > One example of his Bait, Hook, Reel, Release metaphor I used in a text conversation the other day: > > Me: I just saw the most adorable dog that reminded me of you.(Bait) > > Her: I reminded you of a dog!! > > Me: Correction, an adorable dog. > > Her: That’s much better than. What kind of dog?(Hook) > > Me: I’m not sure. All I know is that it was small, white, and furry. (Reel) > > Her: Awe!!! That’s so cute! 🙂 > > Me: No I’m just messing with you, it was a big, slobbering Saint Bernard!(which it actually was) Still kind of cute though. 😛 (Release) > > Her: LOL! You ass..Blah Blah Blah > > Ended up getting her to my place later on in the day. > > Been really focusing on texting game lately and constantly enjoy using Tim’s(RSD) 5 minute texting girlfriend, wife, lover, etc… Although I sometimes change the time limit anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes depending on the girl. His one liners are great if a girl is giving you attitude. Prime example, if a girl can’t hangout, you reply: Your shit. Another one of his gems that can be used in place is: What are you wearing? > > If anyone has never heard of his 5 minute texting girlfriend it goes something like this: > > You: I’ve chosen you to be my texting girlfriend for the next 5(or more) minutes. > > Her: Lol Ok 🙂 Great > > You: Where are you gonna take me for our first date? > > Her: (answer) > > You: (tease her on her answer and give a better suggestion) > > Back and forth until its been about 5 minutes(or more) > > After 5 minutes: > You: Awe, now were broken up. It’s not you, it’s me. We had a good run. I want my CDs back and my favorite T-Shirt back. Etc.. > > The great thing about this is you can occasionally bring her back to the reality you just created. My favorite is: I just realized that we didn’t have any breakup sex. Such a shame. Etc… > > Looking forward to more of your posts! Can’t wait for what you say about texting and phone game seeing as this as been a sticking point for me. It’s just so damned annoying when there is no nonverbal communication like body language, tonality(except for phone game of course), and of course pheromones. I would shoot me a PM if you want an email to some free material on Phone Game. Actually, you can google Jon Sinn’s lay report guide ebook. He has some phone game in it. I did steal the line from Jeffy, and I have used it. I love it. I would love any input you have on this subject of PUA, any input helps the thread, and my personal game, which is win win. Now, MM’s hook and release method is specific to qualification, but I would never revolve it around what Mystery says, as if you know him or have doen a book camp he is more about solid game. Solid game is 7 hours, he is more willing to take a day two to have solid game in spite of quick results. I say this because Mystery is the grandfather of PUA. A lot of methods are his, just mastered and reframed. I love RSD. I do. I prefer them to nearly every other method or system, as they use no system. But Tim’s 5 minute phone game is a FAP, a Role Play, and sexual tension. He is just stacking material that already exists. Man, from me to you, forget it. Forget all these methods. Be a natural. Frame this to phone game. Phone game is simple, which I will expound on if desired but I will do a quickie for you. Frame the conversation to be fun and to build sexual tension. Just like any normal interaction. What do I do in a normal interaction? I am playful, I want to have fun, and I live a lifestyle which I am always busy. When I text I imply it. Now, my Phone game is unique, because I have no system. I calibrate it for a girl. It depends where I am at. If I need attraction, comfort, sexual tension, ect, it changes. A general rule is to use texting to bridge to a new interaction. A phone number close means nothing. If you get a number and no comfort you need to first spark attraction and throw lines out to make it playful with normal attraction material. A problem is that most people do not realize that in this day and age young women text all the time, more so than talk, so say what you wish you could say. Do not rely upon a structure as it is worse than a routine, it does not calibrate to a woman. Now, onto phone game. The first few times she will not respond. You are not special to her yet, you have no attraction. So, run attraction. “Hey pumpkiin, we are over. I am sorry, but it safer for you, I am a bad man.” You stand out, she is intrigued and attracted. DO it a few times, she will reply. Banter. Schedule a meet up. Qualification is done all the time, and it is the single part of game you should not do via text. Why? It sounds like 21 questions no matter how you do it. Because you are either prying for information or asking the question game. If you are in comfort with you, you get to know her more. Plan future adventures and be fun soi she wants to see you. Then schedule a meet up. The key to planning a meet-up is baiting her with a roleplay or tease in order to bait her to want to hang out. In comfort you you can get away with less or no attraction, and you simply throw out lines of things that remind you of her, casually, and bait her into a conversation. “I just say the more adorable kid that reminded me of you.” Now, it is a great bait in comfort because if she really is not into you, you can spin it to attraction by teasing her on if it is hers or it is a normal conversation. So, in a round about way phone game is about solidifying where you are at in your relationship with a woman without pushing through qualification phases because it simply does not work. Any other specifics ask, or if you really want a model I can work on one, but the key is ramping up the phase you are in. > [@dsouza](#): > > What comfort/rapport? i talk to her for 30 sec every 1 week when I run into her. Nothing has been built as she is a server who takes me to a table in a restaurant and not a waitress. The problem is I am a sensitive person (musician) and not a jerk (the type who’d start fights etc lowered testosterone and maturity with age?) .. Please give me concrete ways to distance , be cold while maintaining compatibility with my persona and not making her hate me completely. > > Also what mones are good for this point in time.. She is 21.. I am used to using ammo IS, and summer ammo p75 around her. They are both social mones. It would be kinda wierd wearing social products and acting distant. out of these 2 which is better for distancing myself…? > > Are you sure MM is best for non club situations? I attend a FAMILY restaurant where she works.. There’s always kids , babies, grandparents and married couples there… If I’m cold I may be seen as very intimidating in such an environment. It’s not a nightclub! I have to act congruent with where I am or she may be puzzled. > > Please shed some light! So you do not talk to her, she is a hostess. Cool, I know enough to help. You need to establish you are an abundant man, who is confident. An Alpha is an over used term, as is a Jerk. They are extremes. A true Alpha is just a man who is confident and knows what he wants and goes for it. To get a younger girl, IS or IO is all you need. You need to notice something about her which makes her special, non sexual or looks. A funny or special thing about her that makes her cute. A twitch, a funny way of saying a word. A man who goes after what he wants is attractive. So, notice something, say she is cute, and then simply tell her you want your number. The key is to notice her out of the blue, and to go after what you want. Being direct is a key way to build attraction. A big misconception is that you lose a gal if you mis the magic first meet up window. But, its not true, it just gets harder. Women make split decision about guys, and if she has disqualified you, then you may be toast. But it never hurts to try. But women give out her number and is flattered if you ask for her number. Once you get it, flirt and build attraction like you would in person. And yes, MM is just a structure to follow. Not the routines, you make her interested in you as a person, get interested in her, get to know her, then ramp up into sexuality. This is MM, but he goes into the specifics and a very detailed way around this stuff if you do not know how a normal interaction works. > [@Mysterion](#): > > Hey, > > I find it great that you went a bit into daygaming as well. I see 95% of the people here using the mones in clubs/bars to get a woman. I do not see why no one got the guts to do some daygaming (not enough alc?). Of course they can do what ever they want, however it makes topics like this a rarity and I did not find many places to discuss daygaming on this forum. You covered both a bit. > > Keep the work up 🙂 Why thank you. Daygame is just slower, and often direct. You also have less targets, and cant get sexual. If you are using mones you could waste the during the day as you do not find a woman to speak with. I use IG and IS/IO as a staple day mix, and you can steer it later. During the day you build attraction by being direct and get her number. The mones only help open her. Thank you for the props! > [@JohnM](#): > > The normal social custom of family restaurant isn’t chatting up servers or waitresses and asking them out. > > Part of being high status means that you can bend the social rules of your enviroment. Trying to bend the rules can backfire. It’s a risk. It’s an art to know how far you can go to far. > The only way to find out is to try. Take risks. Learn from them. > Why are you afraid that she might be puzzled? Very VERY true. Being a man is about knowing what you want and taking the risk only if it is worth it. > [@Mysterion](#): > > No it wasn’t. But I read you’re not a club hopper so you fall into the cup too 😉 H5 bro 😃 > > * * * > > Also, KIMBA, I know you mentioned it already, but here’s something I used as advice to someone in the introduction section. I use to go into pretty deep stuff and don’t fear effort so I didn’t mind. But I want to post it here too. It’s very similar to your Anti-AA text! > > Very similar - and very correctly you say AA never completely disappears. But people wonder why the good PUA sometimes have difficulties holding back and NOT approaching a woman? That’s because they developed the “switch” that triggers every time they start feeling anxiety, and leads to do whatever they fear head-on to fight the Anxiety (within reason…), it will never build up enough to be a blockade in your road called life. > > Hope it helped! =) > Thanks KIMBA, awesome thread. Very true. I love the props, but do not need a bigger ego! Haha. It is true, you can rewire yourself with a habit, the reason most guys do not develop it and cant maintain it is you give up one negative emotion for another. Being a PUA SUCKS at a high level. I do not strive for it. I can be, but I like AA. As when I get it, I know it is a set I want to approach. A woman I am attracted to should trigger this response. If you have AA of all women, you need enough courage anyone. If you fear not speaking with all women. Messed up huh? How about a medium. A guy who wants a relationship oriented guy. A guy who is good enough to talk to all people, a confident guy, who is not afraid of a specific women and can go for her with a little general fear of approaching but not fear because you need to do it. It is strange to realize, but Mystery is a guy who is a MASTER. He MUST approach women. But even he gets some normal AA, and when you combine it with the fear to not approach you propel yourself to be a normal guy and go up to her. But what happens when one fear overwhelms another fear? You freeze up. A happy medium is being confident. Accept the fear. If you dive into every woman and have no AA, you can lose a normal girl who is your type but you NEED to open that hot chick who walks in. Food for thought. ---
**Author:** ![Mysterion](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mysterion/32/986_2.png) [@Mysterion](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mysterion)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/48 "2012-10-02T03:54:19Z")
Not entirely sure what you mean, as the MASTER as you call them, it merely gets easier to overcome the AA. As you correctly said, a sexy hot triggering attraction should also trigger AA or something isn’t right. Even masters feel that AA, and every time they will overcome it, but that does not mean that it’s not an adventure for them. You can still be nervous, the difference to a ‘normalo’ is that he goes for what he wants. Also, the masters won’t have to go for every woman triggering their Anxiety, rather I think that if they decide against approaching her, it will have serious reasons (time pressure / whatever) which are not comparable to the typical excuses your anxiety(survival)-part of the brain comes up with. _No, I’m not sure if she’s my type… Let me watch a little longer…Hmm now it is too late, she will know I hesitated… I have to go somewhere…_ Oh geez I am still struggling with this sh\*\*, poor me, but I am making progress. I am aware of how stupid these excuses are and every man had them. No doubt. ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/49 "2012-10-02T04:05:40Z")
Hey Kimba Thanks for the great advice.. i will use it.. the one question i have left for you is, should I still wait 2-3 weeks before i go up to K and tell her she’s cute , and ask for her number to give her a chance to miss me more, or should I go back right away this week and tell her? What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Mysterion](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mysterion/32/986_2.png) [@Mysterion](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mysterion)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 4:17am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/50 "2012-10-02T04:17:28Z")
> [@dsouza](#): > > Hey Kimba > > Thanks for the great advice.. i will use it.. the one question i have left for you is, should I still wait 2-3 weeks before i go up to K and tell her she’s cute , and ask for her number to give her a chance to miss me more, or should I go back right away this week and tell her? What do you think? Man, if I may hook in here, isn’t it important what YOU want? Sure there’s some guidelines. However what I personally find dumb as f… is for instance “wait at least 2 days before you call her” or stuff like that. I call her when I feel like it, if I had bent down to some guidelines, ignoring my personal desires, I would not have been the confident guy I am. Be a bit more spontaneous and natural and quit pre-planning everything. A rough plan of what will happen (Steps like Attraction and Comfort for example) and how to trigger them is enough and let the rest happen naturally! ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/51 "2012-10-02T04:28:03Z")
> [@Mysterion](#): > > Man, if I may hook in here, > isn’t it important what YOU want? Sure there’s some guidelines. However what I personally find dumb as f… is for instance “wait at least 2 days before you call her” or stuff like that. I call her when I feel like it, if I had bent down to some guidelines, ignoring my personal desires, I would not have been the confident guy I am. > Be a bit more spontaneous and natural and quit pre-planning everything. A rough plan of what will happen (Steps like Attraction and Comfort for example) and how to trigger them is enough and let the rest happen naturally! I kinda agree with you but somewhat don’t either.. i’m too eager and my eagerness is making girls think I’m a doormat and they start with interest in me then lose it. I was not like this in my 20’s. I think if I relied on what I wanted I would never succeed. I have to go according to a good plan.. MM is a method after all and not a spontaneous do whatever you want program.. There proper stages for everything and I am just learning from the experts now. In any case I’d like to hear the master’s viewpoint on the matter… Kimba your advice awaits! ---
**Author:** ![tommarty920](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/tommarty920/32/1273_2.png) [@tommarty920](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tommarty920)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/52 "2012-10-02T22:18:47Z")
> [@KIMBA](#): > > WOW! This thread is hopping. > > I would shoot me a PM if you want an email to some free material on Phone Game. > > Actually, you can google Jon Sinn’s lay report guide ebook. He has some phone game in it. > > I did steal the line from Jeffy, and I have used it. I love it. > > I would love any input you have on this subject of PUA, any input helps the thread, and my personal game, which is win win. > > Now, MM’s hook and release method is specific to qualification, but I would never revolve it around what Mystery says, as if you know him or have doen a book camp he is more about solid game. > > Solid game is 7 hours, he is more willing to take a day two to have solid game in spite of quick results. > > I say this because Mystery is the grandfather of PUA. A lot of methods are his, just mastered and reframed. > > I love RSD. I do. I prefer them to nearly every other method or system, as they use no system. But Tim’s 5 minute phone game is a FAP, a Role Play, and sexual tension. > > He is just stacking material that already exists. > > Man, from me to you, forget it. Forget all these methods. Be a natural. > > Frame this to phone game. > > Phone game is simple, which I will expound on if desired but I will do a quickie for you. > > Frame the conversation to be fun and to build sexual tension. > > Just like any normal interaction. > > What do I do in a normal interaction? I am playful, I want to have fun, and I live a lifestyle which I am always busy. > > When I text I imply it. > > Now, my Phone game is unique, because I have no system. I calibrate it for a girl. > > It depends where I am at. > > If I need attraction, comfort, sexual tension, ect, it changes. > > A general rule is to use texting to bridge to a new interaction. > > A phone number close means nothing. If you get a number and no comfort you need to first spark attraction and throw lines out to make it playful with normal attraction material. > > A problem is that most people do not realize that in this day and age young women text all the time, more so than talk, so say what you wish you could say. > > Do not rely upon a structure as it is worse than a routine, it does not calibrate to a woman. > > Now, onto phone game. > > The first few times she will not respond. You are not special to her yet, you have no attraction. > > So, run attraction. “Hey pumpkiin, we are over. I am sorry, but it safer for you, I am a bad man.” > > You stand out, she is intrigued and attracted. > > DO it a few times, she will reply. Banter. > > Schedule a meet up. > > Qualification is done all the time, and it is the single part of game you should not do via text. > > Why? It sounds like 21 questions no matter how you do it. Because you are either prying for information or asking the question game. > > If you are in comfort with you, you get to know her more. Plan future adventures and be fun soi she wants to see you. > > Then schedule a meet up. > > The key to planning a meet-up is baiting her with a roleplay or tease in order to bait her to want to hang out. > > In comfort you you can get away with less or no attraction, and you simply throw out lines of things that remind you of her, casually, and bait her into a conversation. > > “I just say the more adorable kid that reminded me of you.” > > Now, it is a great bait in comfort because if she really is not into you, you can spin it to attraction by teasing her on if it is hers or it is a normal conversation. > > So, in a round about way phone game is about solidifying where you are at in your relationship with a woman without pushing through qualification phases because it simply does not work. > > Any other specifics ask, or if you really want a model I can work on one, but the key is ramping up the phase you are in. If Mystery is the grandfather of PUA, does that make Ross Jeffries the great-grandfather? What about Tyler Durden? Uncle? Cousin? I love RSD too. They really gave me a lot of motivation to become more natural with my game. And Jeff is so funny. Have used your mom a lot but have never gotten the “my mom’s dead” response YET. It’s got to happen eventually right? Got plenty of phone game material, just trying to get some information that’s a little less method, routine, and structure oriented. Which is pretty much what you gave me in your response so thanks! Would still like to see you write up a thorough explanation for phone/text game though as you’ve written each concept so spot on. I typically try to stay away from using a lot of the routines I come across word for word but some have just worked so well I can’t help but use them in certain situations. Like Tim’s 5 minute texting girlfriend. Now I don’t use this nearly as much as I did back when I first heard it but on occasion I like to because it never fails. These days I utilize the foundation of why a certain routine works so when I’m in the field I can improvise my own role play, DHV, or neg based on situation. I always felt off reciting them word for word and it’s been much more helpful in my PUA evolution to improvise; especially when it comes to being congruent and calibrating. As far as the Mystery Method goes I’ve always felt that it’s a good starting point for beginners but what really counts is his concepts rather than his words, if that makes sense. I would say that the main thing that has helped my game ever since I started PUA: Not being afraid of losing the girl! It was really tough for me to internalize this but when I did, a giant door opened up. I believe this has a lot to do with AA as well as when you aren’t afraid to lose the girl, there’s no reason to question approaching. Having this mindset also makes pickup much more fun and gives realm to a plethora of possibilities for experimentation. This should be golden rule number ONE, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/53 "2012-10-02T23:03:41Z")
> [@Mysterion](#): > > Not entirely sure what you mean, > > as the MASTER as you call them, it merely gets easier to overcome the AA. As you correctly said, a sexy hot triggering attraction should also trigger AA or something isn’t right. Even masters feel that AA, and every time they will overcome it, but that does not mean that it’s not an adventure for them. You can still be nervous, the difference to a ‘normalo’ is that he goes for what he wants. > Also, the masters won’t have to go for every woman triggering their Anxiety, rather I think that if they decide against approaching her, it will have serious reasons (time pressure / whatever) which are not comparable to the typical excuses your anxiety(survival)-part of the brain comes up with. > > _No, I’m not sure if she’s my type… Let me watch a little longer…Hmm now it is too late, she will know I hesitated… > I have to go somewhere…_ > Oh geez I am still struggling with this sh\*\*, poor me, but I am making progress. > I am aware of how stupid these excuses are and every man had them. No doubt. See, I need to clean up my definition. If you go out with Mystery, he gets anxious when a hot women walks n, or rather a hotter woman. He hides it well, but he must go up to her. Some guys in RSD do this, he will drop set and go up to a hotter chick who will walk in to try and get her, they are compelled to do this. I do not want this problem. It is not normal to me. If I am vibing with a girl, it does help you game to go to the mission impossible woman but why ruin a connection with a woman? This is not a game thing, but a life thing. You do need to escape a comfort zone to get good, but rapid progression is what top guys do to home their game and it is not realistically what you need, as it is impossible to get every girl, and getting over AA and having a solid interaction means more to me. Its a personal distinction. I have gone out to eliminate AA and does this set to set thing, but not to the point of compulsion to need to drive into new sets. > [@dsouza](#): > > Hey Kimba > > Thanks for the great advice.. i will use it.. the one question i have left for you is, should I still wait 2-3 weeks before i go up to K and tell her she’s cute , and ask for her number to give her a chance to miss me more, or should I go back right away this week and tell her? What do you think? Go after what YOU want. Disinterest is a great tool, but it can be worse to wait as a woman can rationalize you do not like her. > [@Mysterion](#): > > Man, if I may hook in here, > isn’t it important what YOU want? Sure there’s some guidelines. However what I personally find dumb as f… is for instance “wait at least 2 days before you call her” or stuff like that. I call her when I feel like it, if I had bent down to some guidelines, ignoring my personal desires, I would not have been the confident guy I am. > Be a bit more spontaneous and natural and quit pre-planning everything. A rough plan of what will happen (Steps like Attraction and Comfort for example) and how to trigger them is enough and let the rest happen naturally! Very true, rules are made to practice the skills, but are designed to be broken in application. > [@dsouza](#): > > I kinda agree with you but somewhat don’t either.. i’m too eager and my eagerness is making girls think I’m a doormat and they start with interest in me then lose it. > > I was not like this in my 20’s. > > I think if I relied on what I wanted I would never succeed. I have to go according to a good plan.. MM is a method after all and not a spontaneous do whatever you want program.. There proper stages for everything and I am just learning from the experts now. > > In any case I’d like to hear the master’s viewpoint on the matter… Kimba your advice awaits! I am not the master. I have some experience but my game is not your game. My game is more natural now, and I do not weigh heavily on one interaction. I follow his advice. MM isd a structure that only worked for mystery. He encourages you to modify it. If you take it word for word and follow it to a T you are not you, but a Mystery clone. His structure uses lines, routines, and is planned to a T with infield experience of thousands of approaches and he knows what a woman could say and he has a responce to everything. He is a robot. I love Mystery, he is the reason I can even get to know a woman, but it took a long time to understand what all PUA’s realize, to do their own thing. > [@tommarty920](#): > > If Mystery is the grandfather of PUA, does that make Ross Jeffries the great-grandfather? What about Tyler Durden? Uncle? Cousin? > > I love RSD too. They really gave me a lot of motivation to become more natural with my game. And Jeff is so funny. Have used your mom a lot but have never gotten the “my mom’s dead” response YET. It’s got to happen eventually right? > > Got plenty of phone game material, just trying to get some information that’s a little less method, routine, and structure oriented. Which is pretty much what you gave me in your response so thanks! Would still like to see you write up a thorough explanation for phone/text game though as you’ve written each concept so spot on. > > I typically try to stay away from using a lot of the routines I come across word for word but some have just worked so well I can’t help but use them in certain situations. Like Tim’s 5 minute texting girlfriend. Now I don’t use this nearly as much as I did back when I first heard it but on occasion I like to because it never fails. These days I utilize the foundation of why a certain routine works so when I’m in the field I can improvise my own role play, DHV, or neg based on situation. I always felt off reciting them word for word and it’s been much more helpful in my PUA evolution to improvise; especially when it comes to being congruent and calibrating. > > As far as the Mystery Method goes I’ve always felt that it’s a good starting point for beginners but what really counts is his concepts rather than his words, if that makes sense. > > I would say that the main thing that has helped my game ever since I started PUA: Not being afraid of losing the girl! It was really tough for me to internalize this but when I did, a giant door opened up. I believe this has a lot to do with AA as well as when you aren’t afraid to lose the girl, there’s no reason to question approaching. Having this mindset also makes pickup much more fun and gives realm to a plethora of possibilities for experimentation. This should be golden rule number ONE, in my opinion. Ross Jeffires made the community, not the method. He is NLP and Hypnosis based. He did make the online forum community but if you listen to his material and try patterning you will be weirded out by the methodology. TD is a machine who blew apart Mystery and broke down his structure to be realistic quickly before a lot of others did. I say Mystery is the father because he made the structure every other method uses, bar two. Juggler/David X/Wygnet rapport and honesty game and Gunwitch seduction game. Having delved into those, I can say, no method we refer to as game is like it. I used your mom and got that response only when I go into a group or to a solo woman who I KNOW is bitter and will blow me off. It is the tyope of group or person you never want to approach, and you will KNOW you will get that feedback. Jeffy’s experiences come from him getting a bit drunk and doing crazy stuff. He is a smart guy who abuses high energy game to get quick results fast, by blowing up non-on sets. A good thing on text I forgot that I use is to pump an activity a few times and release. Example is: “Hey, have you been to the new _Random Theme Resturant_ they are INCREDIBLE! You must wear a pirate hat to get in and all the food is served to you by grungy looking servers who insult you while you eat. You should get a girl friend to go with you.” Its a hook and release. You do that type of text a few times and she will invite herself, or if you invite her she knows you are this fun and adventurous guy who she wants to spend time with. I never did routines, I did use banter lines and teasing, and still tend to. I also never used many opinion openers. I was a social guy before. But I do agree to use them, and if it works do not fix it. The only reason to not is a lot of guys come off like robots. Mystery is perfectly calibrated, uses value game, and entertains women for validation. It is not very fun and takes times to make work. I want a connection, not validation. This is why most instructors (All RSD guys) phase away from the ridgid structure, it is less fun and takes years to learn and longer to calibrate. Fun is key, I agree. AA does not matter if you are social. I have met a lot of guys who would be normal with women before PUA and be able to go up, say hello, and start talking and after get AA due to the intentions of taking her home. It makes NO sense. If you go out to have fun the problems fix themselves. I do also suggest going out to practice. If you write down a couple sticking points and go out to work on them, AA is less as you fail only if you do not try to practice. The ability to lose the girl is huge. If you are willing to do that you have no outcome attached and you come off as non0needy, abundant and a plethora of other attractive qualities that takes other guys hours of story telling and routines to convey. ---
**Author:** ![tommarty920](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/tommarty920/32/1273_2.png) [@tommarty920](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tommarty920)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/54 "2012-10-02T23:28:31Z")
> [@KIMBA](#): > > Ross Jeffires made the community, not the method. He is NLP and Hypnosis based. He did make the online forum community but if you listen to his material and try patterning you will be weirded out by the methodology. > > TD is a machine who blew apart Mystery and broke down his structure to be realistic quickly before a lot of others did. > > I say Mystery is the father because he made the structure every other method uses, bar two. Juggler/David X/Wygnet rapport and honesty game and Gunwitch seduction game. Having delved into those, I can say, no method we refer to as game is like it. > > I used your mom and got that response only when I go into a group or to a solo woman who I KNOW is bitter and will blow me off. It is the tyope of group or person you never want to approach, and you will KNOW you will get that feedback. Jeffy’s experiences come from him getting a bit drunk and doing crazy stuff. He is a smart guy who abuses high energy game to get quick results fast, by blowing up non-on sets. > > A good thing on text I forgot that I use is to pump an activity a few times and release. > > Example is: > > “Hey, have you been to the new _Random Theme Resturant_ they are INCREDIBLE! You must wear a pirate hat to get in and all the food is served to you by grungy looking servers who insult you while you eat. You should get a girl friend to go with you.” > > Its a hook and release. You do that type of text a few times and she will invite herself, or if you invite her she knows you are this fun and adventurous guy who she wants to spend time with. > > I never did routines, I did use banter lines and teasing, and still tend to. I also never used many opinion openers. I was a social guy before. > > But I do agree to use them, and if it works do not fix it. The only reason to not is a lot of guys come off like robots. Mystery is perfectly calibrated, uses value game, and entertains women for validation. It is not very fun and takes times to make work. I want a connection, not validation. This is why most instructors (All RSD guys) phase away from the ridgid structure, it is less fun and takes years to learn and longer to calibrate. > > Fun is key, I agree. AA does not matter if you are social. I have met a lot of guys who would be normal with women before PUA and be able to go up, say hello, and start talking and after get AA due to the intentions of taking her home. It makes NO sense. If you go out to have fun the problems fix themselves. > > I do also suggest going out to practice. If you write down a couple sticking points and go out to work on them, AA is less as you fail only if you do not try to practice. > > The ability to lose the girl is huge. If you are willing to do that you have no outcome attached and you come off as non0needy, abundant and a plethora of other attractive qualities that takes other guys hours of story telling and routines to convey. I was just messing around about the whole great-grandfather thing. I ditched his methods after exploring some of his material along time ago. It seemed too manipulative and came across as creepy. I guess he would be the creepy uncle of the PUA community. I do appreciate his, “leave them better than when you found them” mentality. Although that is sometimes easier said than done. Juggler, Gunwitch, David X are all great. Is David X really that bad looking? I have about 200+ GB of PUA and PUA-related material but I don’t think I have anything from Wygnet. Where can I find some of his stuff? What do you think of David D? I didn’t realize it at the time but Double Your Dating was the first PUA book I ever read. It blow up my whole reality in regards to picking up women. Although it wasn’t until I came on here and heard about “The Game” that I really got into all the different methods. BTW, I rarely use canned openers anymore but I never realized till now that the cologne opener might be worth doing when using mones. Have you heard of anyone using that to not only open, but spread the mones around? Might give that a try sometime soon. I like that hook and release example you gave, sounds like it could be quite effective. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 8:33am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/55 "2012-10-04T08:33:15Z")
> [@tommarty920](#): > > I was just messing around about the whole great-grandfather thing. I ditched his methods after exploring some of his material along time ago. It seemed too manipulative and came across as creepy. I guess he would be the creepy uncle of the PUA community. I do appreciate his, “leave them better than when you found them” mentality. Although that is sometimes easier said than done. > > Juggler, Gunwitch, David X are all great. Is David X really that bad looking? > > I have about 200+ GB of PUA and PUA-related material but I don’t think I have anything from Wygnet. Where can I find some of his stuff? > > What do you think of David D? I didn’t realize it at the time but Double Your Dating was the first PUA book I ever read. It blow up my whole reality in regards to picking up women. Although it wasn’t until I came on here and heard about “The Game” that I really got into all the different methods. > > BTW, I rarely use canned openers anymore but I never realized till now that the cologne opener might be worth doing when using mones. Have you heard of anyone using that to not only open, but spread the mones around? Might give that a try sometime soon. > > I like that hook and release example you gave, sounds like it could be quite effective. David X is a fat, old, and balding man. I dont consider him good looking by any means. I do admire his boot camps though, he gets laid, and is a fantastic wing to get you laid, And his works on sticking points with you for an entire day. He is a ‘natural’. Wygnet can be found on Youtube. His mentality is vastly different than the Mystery Method structure. He uses more situational openers and honesty. David D is great. He teaches flirting and attraction material, as well as an Alpha mindset. The problem with his stuff is he is a better marketer than PUA, and thats why he did well early on. I also must note that he brings women to seminars who are hired models who are paid to be his pretend girlfriend. I only have one ‘Mone’ buddy IRL but have many PUA friends. I would try it if you want to use routine openers, as no other way is as effective to get out your mones. I do not know what to write about next. I have been thinking about my method of PUA, being a wing, and group attraction (A key to the difference from what I do and the MM). ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 10:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/56 "2012-10-04T10:23:40Z")
> [@](#): > > as the MASTER as you call them, it merely gets easier to overcome the AA. As you correctly said, a sexy hot triggering attraction should also trigger AA or something isn’t right. I don’t think that feeling a little bit of AA is necessarly a horrible thing. I however don’t think it’s the best emotion to feel. Feeling pleasure is much better than feeling anxiety. Mystery’s method is optimised to get the girl. It’s not optimised to feel pleasure will interacting with the girl. As a result he still has AA. If I remember right he wrote it in some book that he still has AA. As far as PUA’s goes I can imagine that Hypnotica has no AA. When it comes to cold approaching girls in daygame or clubs I haven’t dealt satisfactory with the topic myself and my knowledge to get rid of it still needs improvement. Public speaking is however a similar issue. I know an NLP trainer A who eliminated his completely. In a seminar he was speaking with another trainer B with many years of experience. B said something along the lines of: “Well anxiety never disappears but that’s no problem as I’m using the energy of the anxiety.” A responded with: “Would it be a problem for you if I take your anxiety away? The anxiety isn’t productive. It reduces the ability to perceive the audience accurately as you focus on your own stuff.” The 3 second rule that Mystery teaches is a way to channel the anxiety into productive energy. It’s a strategy that can produce results. It’s however not the only way to do things. ---
**Author:** ![tommarty920](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/tommarty920/32/1273_2.png) [@tommarty920](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tommarty920)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/57 "2012-10-04T15:19:15Z")
> [@KIMBA](#): > > David X is a fat, old, and balding man. I dont consider him good looking by any means. I do admire his boot camps though, he gets laid, and is a fantastic wing to get you laid, And his works on sticking points with you for an entire day. He is a ‘natural’. > > Wygnet can be found on Youtube. His mentality is vastly different than the Mystery Method structure. He uses more situational openers and honesty. > > David D is great. He teaches flirting and attraction material, as well as an Alpha mindset. The problem with his stuff is he is a better marketer than PUA, and thats why he did well early on. I also must note that he brings women to seminars who are hired models who are paid to be his pretend girlfriend. > > I only have one ‘Mone’ buddy IRL but have many PUA friends. I would try it if you want to use routine openers, as no other way is as effective to get out your mones. > > I do not know what to write about next. I have been thinking about my method of PUA, being a wing, and group attraction (A key to the difference from what I do and the MM). Watched one of David X’s seminars. He reminds of that guy from the diabetes commercials. What kind of women was hey getting with? 10s? Are you talking about David Wygant or is that someone different? Never knew that about David D, kinda shameful. I’d probably only use the cologne opener for fun or to try out new MX or Putative products. All those topics sound good. Maybe some information on LMR? ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/58 "2012-10-04T21:25:39Z")
> [@JohnM](#): > > I don’t think that feeling a little bit of AA is necessarly a horrible thing. > I however don’t think it’s the best emotion to feel. Feeling pleasure is much better than feeling anxiety. > > Mystery’s method is optimised to get the girl. It’s not optimised to feel pleasure will interacting with the girl. As a result he still has AA. If I remember right he wrote it in some book that he still has AA. > > As far as PUA’s goes I can imagine that Hypnotica has no AA. > > When it comes to cold approaching girls in daygame or clubs I haven’t dealt satisfactory with the topic myself and my knowledge to get rid of it still needs improvement. > Public speaking is however a similar issue. I know an NLP trainer A who eliminated his completely. In a seminar he was speaking with another trainer B with many years of experience. > B said something along the lines of: “Well anxiety never disappears but that’s no problem as I’m using the energy of the anxiety.” > A responded with: “Would it be a problem for you if I take your anxiety away? The anxiety isn’t productive. It reduces the ability to perceive the audience accurately as you focus on your own stuff.” > > The 3 second rule that Mystery teaches is a way to channel the anxiety into productive energy. > It’s a strategy that can produce results. It’s however not the only way to do things. I agree, I like AA. Mystery, in field at least, does not have a normal sense of AA. He really does get nervous around geting a hotter woman. It does help him with the girl he is working on as it acts as a take away. Hypnotica is a wall flower. He is a night club/strip manager and his ‘infield’ photos are with his employees. When he pulls woemn it is often due to his status he meets there. When he is not in his element he receeds. That is why he is never ranked as a ‘top’ PUA because he really is not that good. When he is in his element, combined with his good inner game, he does get results. I would say he still has AA as he struggles to approach. I do know if you can handle public speaking and are not in a PUA mindset meeting women is easy. When you have the intention of going home with a girl you freeze up, when you do not care it seems a lot easier from my experience. The PUA frame or mindset is detrimental, so for attraction as a goal it is prevalent. If you evolve past it, it is not an issue. Great input, its an obvious thing that when looking at the world in PUA it does not compute, per se. > [@tommarty920](#): > > Watched one of David X’s seminars. He reminds of that guy from the diabetes commercials. What kind of women was hey getting with? 10s? Are you talking about David Wygant or is that someone different? Never knew that about David D, kinda shameful. > > I’d probably only use the cologne opener for fun or to try out new MX or Putative products. > > All those topics sound good. Maybe some information on LMR? Yes, Wygant. He helps you with mindset but he is a good looking, in shape and a sniper in specific environments so he does find success, but his skill is situational. LMR is interesting, I think I will jump into how I meet women consistently and how I handle LMR. Odds are I will delve into it at a later time if people struggle. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/59 "2012-10-04T23:05:14Z")
**THE KIMBA MODEL - IF I WERE TO TEACH PUA: PART ONE** Let me pre-face this with a disclaimer of the fact that this is not Value Game. This is not the M3 method. This is not the NLP method. This is not the Lovesystem Method. This is not the RSD Method. This is a synopsis of what I have learned, much from naturals, that works for me. No system is perfect, but hey, a free system in detail is enough to get success. **Open** How to open consistently is a moot point, as is same night lays (SNL). Dig deep and ponder on this, if you learn to open groups 100% of the time you will not get the girl, in fact odds are you will not get laid, or a girl. Why? Wasted time. The point of my system is to get a woman you connect with on a physical, emotional, and sexual level. This is much harder than imaginable. SNL game is different than my game, I will expound on this. I wil say if you want a SNL you will not get it. But if you use my system with calibration and learn how to judge risk and reward you can get a few a year. If you want a SNL you need to open more brash. Your opener will be less consistent and more intune with your personality to weed out women who will not be receptive with you personality. Game is a reflection of you, or the idenity you project. If you run value game the self you project is an interesting persona, but even that persona can conflict with a womans. A brash opener needs to be sexual in nature to see if that woman has that intention, as unless you can spend several hours you cant change a womans mood enough without enough alcohol or flashy mood changing game, you cant trick or convince a woman to sleep with you. You can revert to a PUA named Brad P and his horse girl opener to see a brash opener for SNL. When I go out, and open, I do not go for a SNL. I am social. Social is the frame to open women on a consistent basis. If you are social and having fun with everyone, and just go up to a girl or group and say hello you open on a consistent basis. My go-to line is, in any game: “Hello. You look fun. Had to meet you.” As I say this my hand always touches the arm of a woman. This breaks the touch barrier with the entire group, and is high energy and fun. I do not go situational or opinion opener often. Why? It often comes off as sharking women. Unless you really want to know the answer to a question, it comes off as an excuse to approach. Women can tell. When I use such an opener it is key to use a frame known as curiosity. A frame is how you perceive the world. It comes down to a curious tone of voice, a quizical expression on your face and interest in what she says. The problem with this often is that you are invested in her answer. Her answer is not that important as she is a stranger. Most PUA strategies revolve around routine stacks that speed through the first few minutes. Thats great but it makes you not genuine. If you are not honest you will experience LMR or Last Minute Resistance. So, the universal opener of a social hello is optimal. For the opener comes sub communications. You must smile, stand up right, have good posture, and be disarming. The entire point of a bootcamp is getting the subtle details down. When you approach a group you do often gt a shit test, if you do it is a GOOD thing. Any monkey wrench such as “I have a boyfriend” or “Who ARE YOU?” shows they had attraction off of your approaching. If a woman messes with you she wants to know if you are the cool and social guy you approached as. Handling this correctly builds attraction. Any test is best handled by ignoring it and moving on to a new topic, like it did not phase you. After a while you will learn lines and statements to handle this. A lot of guys will say “Its ok if you have a boyfriend, I hope he does not mind if I keep hitting on you.” Or :We will see, I am very charming." Once you have said hello, get past a simple test, you are in. **Group to Solo Attraction** This is where I disagree with Mystery fundamentally. I use negs, but not like he does. The first key to group game is to open with a group tease or cold read. Any piece of attraction material you can group modify is perfect. I NEVER story tell early on. You need to have fun be be self amused. Attraction is banter based, and flirting. A common misconception is that you need to not show interest in attraction. That is faulty logic. If you establish you are a man, and sexual in nature, you establish your role as not a friend to the group, but potentially more. Flirting is fun and is why PUA is enjoyable to men and women. Flirting is teasing. Teasing is Cocky and Funny, Banter Lines, and any such framed talking. Flirting is a fun way to show interest. You need to establish the role as a man in attraction, which builds her interest. You also need to be friendly. After you open, tease, and build a bit of sexual tension with flirting I always false time constraint. A FTC is a way to let them know you are interested, but you have somethign better going on. A FTC is “You guys are great, but I hafta go soon and baby sit my friends.” After this, I always go onto a FAP or future adventure projection. A FAP establishes you are fun and takes the entire group into your fun frame of mind. In attraction you must be fun, relaxed, chill, and not attached to the outcome. The key to building specific attraction is in part of isolation and qualification. Once you attract a group, you are friends with the entire group, so they will not try to stop you from isolating a girl. On the girl which is your target you establish touch with her. That is the only difference in who you want in the group. Being funny and humorous is key to keeping a group interested. FAP, Cold Reads and Cocky and Funny are girl humor as it pumps their state of self worth. Attraction is not that hard and lasts a few minutes. But it never stops. it slows down. To get out of attraction you qualify her. The entire group or the single girl will be attracted to you, so to let her know you like her back you need to get to know her. To get to know her you make cold reads or statements about what you think of her from the interaction. Social Dynamics of the group and her personality will make you accurate after a few openings. Advanced concepts is how top guys get SNL’s and consistent results. To make a woman Jealous is huge. Switch targets. I often start talking to a group and touch the girl on the arm who is the most accessable, I tease her specifically a couple times, and then switch to another girl. his builds tension and makes the girl who I initially touched realize she likes me. I often disqualify myself or give a neg at the end of attraction to calibrate my place with the group. I say I am a bad man. It is simple. Or, I neg in respect to teasing a specific girl a bit harshly who I like. Top guys often leave the set at this point. They make it awkward but it works. If you leave, and they have a good impression, and no one else comes along as good or fun, and you come back you appear even more attractive. I make it not awkward by using a situational opener on another group or back to who ever I was with, or with a previous group. If a set goes bad, I will also do a compliance close, such as run more attraction or teasing, and using a FTC, and ask for her number and leave. This is a takeaway. I then come back after a couple other idiots try to pick her up, and suddenly my value is higher as I am the better man in the field. If you stick in or come back, you then pick your target. This is done by leading her and touching. I always, as in 90% of the time have girls qualify themselves at this point and try to slow the conversation down and get into comfort because they are so attracted at this point. **Isolate and Qualify** Isolation is leading. It grounds her attraction. You can lead the group or her. I isolate by going to get a drink to or chat. I cold read with “You are fun, lets to somewhere more relaxed.” This is where I will venue move or just turn her by her arm away from her group and we chat. Her group will not care, you are a fun guy they all like. This is where you qualify. You qualify through every stage of the game. You qualify before you get the number. Before you move, before you kiss her. You let her know you actually like her for something outside her looks. Qualify is vague, but it comes down to finding out about her and telling her what you like about her and leading the conversation into that direction. **Vibing** You never stop qualifying and using attraction in comfort. Comfort is established by leading and touching as she trusts you already. The missing link to comfort is sexual comfort. Sexual comfort is making your attentions known. I frame it such as, “I think you are a cool person. Even if I did not want to take you home I would still like to get to know you.” I use that line religiously. Creating a Vibe that is still fun, flirty, a bit sexual and fun while qualifying her via hoops for steering the conversation into the direction you desire. By continuing to touch her and keeping the interaction moving she builds attraction and comfort. When you Vibe you story tell. I do not run canned material, but I use my life experiences to ground myself as a person. You can show vulnerabilites on light topics. As long as learn a lesson the story is good to share. Now, when a girl asks you questions early on I often tell her “I am not here for an interview” as I want to keep it light. She will keep asking and after a couple times I will break down and answer, this shows she is deeply attracted to you. My answer is simple and consistent to her qualifying questions. What do you do is always the same answer, she may call it a routine, but if it is, I use one routine. Her: What do you do? Me: I work at the Post Office. I love my job and the people are great, and I cant complain about the stability, but I also teach on this side. I love teaching, it is my passion. I love getting new students in and breaking them down and rebuilding them to use their strengths. Its very rewarding, I use this to establish myself as a real person and to also open up conversation topics. I suddenly become a real guy with goals, aspirations, and depth. She also trusts you more. At this point you are in your own little world and having fun one on one. Vibing take a while and getting to know each other. I continue to lightly tease, banter, and to qualify good things. She knows you are fun, she likes you, you like her. Intrigue is a form of attraction, and so is mystery. If you dangle out lines of conversation she jumps on our lines of intrigue and wants to get to know you. While in vibing you continue to lead, use some attraction, take aways do tend to slow down at this point. I do disqualify myself a bit still when she spikes attraction for me. A key point to Vibing is rooting who you are. If you are fun you have 40% of pick up down. The other 40% is being a real and passionate person. The rest is communication that is non-verbal and body language as well as being congruent with who you are. Passion can get you laid, as is being fun. Men who own companies and on their life purpose get women. Think of artists and musicians. Fun is the frat guy who brings the party and always has fun and gets laid. Both guys get women in their own ways and combining them is a huge game changer. Vibing is letting her know you are both of these. Normal conversation and the same principles of attraction and qialification is vibing, in essence. She wants to get to know you, so let her. She already likes her. A huge head shift is knowing that a woman will like you for who you are. **Close and/Or Pull** If you continue to qualify and do everything correctly, this is easy. The entire point of social game is momentum. You ramp up attraction, qualifications, emotional high and lows as well as social intuition she knows you are a great guy. You venue change again or close. I assume you got her number earlier. A number means NOTHING. Social game means you will bump into her again. I always close the same way. “Hey, its you again! I am about to bounce, I am starving.this place is slowing down. We should go on an adventure to Egypt and see the Pyramids. We can eat dinner under the moon light and camp in the sand. Or we can go back to” I then conclude it with a different venue, or my place, or solidify plans to do something fun in the future. A key to this is to do it on a few girls, different lines or activities though. To get the number or take a girl home, I always say, “You were really cool/fun.adventurous, I would love to get to know you again.” Sometimes it is on in closing, and she wants to get busy. It happens. You need to slow down and chill out. At this point you need to handle logistics. You need to obstacles. If you do it socially, everyone in the venue likes you, her friends do, and she loves you, so the logistical issues are different than most PUA’s. The difference is you need to just handle not getting her home, but a place to be intimate. Going home, a flat tire, low gas, no taxi, no place, no knowledge of the area, ect ruin the night. You need to figure this out on your own. Often I will not close. No kiss, no number. The girl will often throw IOI’s, ask what you are doing later, ect and make it OBVIOUS. Also, she will ask for your number. Closing is what you want from that phase of the interaction. If you want a hug, a friend, a kiss, a number, or nothing, it is up to you. I often will slow down an interaction in social circle game and make her want more. Sexual tension is huge, if she knows you like her, but chose to not pull the trigger while she is into you she questions herself. I do the same thing with hired gun/women working. Take her out of her loop and make her want you. **Touching and Excluding steps** Touching starts at points of being friendly and goes on to the points of more intimate based on where you want to go. If you want a SNL, you push and push. If you want a number, you push into being close and intimate, and maybe some kissing. I do excludes a lot of steps, but the process is consistent and straight foreword. What to remember: -Be friendly. -Be fun -Be out of your head -Be genuine -Be honest -Be in the moment -Be leading If you do all of this, things take care of themselves. It is the natural way. Natural guys do this. I will say one missing element to this is the concept of the guy who takes the risk wins. You do not learn without trying. This becomes natural by calibrating. You just need to be social. It gets me laid, it gets me friends, it gets me girlfriends. Play safe. ---
**Author:** ![Apoplectic](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/apoplectic/32/398_2.png) [@Apoplectic](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Apoplectic)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/60 "2012-10-06T04:32:03Z")
> [@KIMBA](#): > > Intrigue is a form of attraction, and so is mystery. If you dangle out lines of conversation she jumps on our lines of intrigue and wants to get to know you. Can you go more into this? What are lines of intrigue? [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612.md?page=2) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612.md?page=4)