# Getting the Woman. **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [September 3, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612 "2012-09-03T19:38:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mysterion](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mysterion/32/986_2.png) [@Mysterion](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mysterion)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 9:21am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/61 "2012-10-06T09:21:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Being funny and humorous is key to keeping a group interested. FAP, Cold Reads and Cocky and Funny are girl humor as it pumps their state of self worth. Yes no maybe, cold reads or as I call them observational statements keep them interested because it’s about them. And they are who they are interested in the most. Being cocky might not make them laugh a lot and it might not even be funny, but if you succeed in spiking her emotion, getting back at you, you know she’s attracted. > [@](#): > > I NEVER story tell early on. Agreed, it’s time to tell her about yourself when she is actually interested in you (attracted). In over 80% of my sets the girl would start talking more while she’s attracted. Until then, keep it short and don’t dig too deep. > [@](#): > > This is a takeaway. I then come back after a couple other idiots try to pick her up, and suddenly my value is higher as I am the better man in the field. Again this only seems to apply to clubs or w/e…If you daygame it’s all or nothing > [@](#): > > A key point to Vibing is rooting who you are. If you are fun you have 40% of pick up down. But only if who you are is a fun guy. I’m more of a serious guy who isn’t joking around, and as long as I’m not trying to be funny it’s all good. > [@](#): > > Closing is what you want from that phase of the interaction. If you want a hug, a friend, a kiss, a number, or nothing, it is up to you. That’s the case all the time, in any phase except seduction (where it’s clear). If I approach a girl and figure she’s a smoker, I tell her in a friendly way that I “got to go”. She’ll get the submessage of that. Most of the time it’s even looking very strange because I approach her, smell she’s a smoker and get the fudge out. If I like her personality but shes not the best looking (I sometimes open interaction with random people without necessarily finding them sexy, tram etc) I can enter the friends zone. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/62 "2012-10-06T20:49:56Z")
> [@Mysterion](#): > > Yes no maybe, cold reads or as I call them observational statements keep them interested because it’s about them. And they are who they are interested in the most. > Being cocky might not make them laugh a lot and it might not even be funny, but if you succeed in spiking her emotion, getting back at you, you know she’s attracted. > > Agreed, it’s time to tell her about yourself when she is actually interested in you (attracted). In over 80% of my sets the girl would start talking more while she’s attracted. Until then, keep it short and don’t dig too deep. > > Again this only seems to apply to clubs or w/e…If you daygame it’s all or nothing > > But only if who you are is a fun guy. I’m more of a serious guy who isn’t joking around, and as long as I’m not trying to be funny it’s all good. > > That’s the case all the time, in any phase except seduction (where it’s clear). If I approach a girl and figure she’s a smoker, I tell her in a friendly way that I “got to go”. She’ll get the submessage of that. Most of the time it’s even looking very strange because I approach her, smell she’s a smoker and get the fudge out. If I like her personality but shes not the best looking (I sometimes open interaction with random people without necessarily finding them sexy, tram etc) I can enter the friends zone. Cold Reads are statements about them, hit or miss, opens conversation and can often be playful in nature. I frame everything as a cold read. I would read up on real cold reads as the subtle details on people helps you read them and propel an interaction foreword. It is my staple. Cocky and Funny is just flirting. Just like Push Pull. They are community strategies. Done right it works, not done correctly you come off as a friend or a dick. I frame it as every piece of dick is followed by something funny/playful. Its all attraction, and comes off as funny because it is chick humor, and that term simply means it pumps her state and spikes her emotions. I dont story tell for more than that reason, it often comes off as not genuine and also is value.resume in nature to me, As far as a takeaway, I do it in day game. After I hook her in, and get an instant date, a takeaway is playful flirting to keep her on her toes. Strong in qualification, you do not know its power until you test it. When she says something I dislike I do not blow it up or harp on it, I simply do a playful head turn or notice something else going on. By this point she is attracted and wants my attention, it solidifies our chemistry, Fun is not taking the interaction too seriously. And by not seriously it means not placing value on the interaction. My game is fun and playful. That is what most flirting is. It sounds like you do run or should run value oriented game. You also sound very well versed in PUA. I would love your input on story telling, as I free-style it a LOT and do not root stories well to establish myself as a real person. This is why the M3 model does not jive with me. I often over pump attraction, that is why I modified my group game to group attraction, it took a long time to figure it out but it clicks at college parties. I get the feeling you run very tight bar and professional game, as in in a professional environment and a bar where you can establish Alpha dominance and high value you have a very high success rate. I hope I am not reaching. It is a different type of game than I now run. I started in Alpha/Physical game, went to value, then slowly worked to what I now use, a more natural approach and being fun. My problem is it is more challenging to get a super high success rate, mine is very slow burning. I lower my value often by being too funny (I know, strange PUA tactic) and I look for fun more over success, which gives me the ability to build my game to get nearly any girl in night game but it takes time. My experience with value and direct game lets me handle AMOG’s and obstacles, but my sub-par looks, and often out of shape body is not exactly attractive. I would often up my success by going value game, but I dont like it, its not congruent. I do find statements of interest propel my style of game up dramatically. Just finding out when to and what to say feels strange. Even when genuine, the game I run, it tends to break or fun vibe. Any suggestions? I dont know if when I get her attraction or when she qualifies is a good point, I often wait to vibing but it is a long time to wait from my experience. **Apoplectic -** I define lines of intrigue as portions of personality that you reveal that makes you unique and gets her intrigued to learn more about you. If you happen to mention in a story you were in France on business, that will be interesting to a new person. Its conversation bait and raises your value ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/63 "2012-10-06T21:17:52Z")
**SNL and LMR** SNL is short for Same Night Lays, and LMR is Last Minute Resistance. Now, let me pre-define this as knowing that NO MEANS NO. Women are more like volume knobs and no can be a cover for not yet, but it is safer to just stop. This is the principle to my SNL and LMR game. It is about solid game, not long game, but solid. If you run solid attraction, touch correctly according to the Vin Dicarlo ladder, qualify often, and speed through comfort with some drinking, you can get a SNL. The issue is logistics, which honestly is not teachable. You must go out and understand that you will need to think on your feet and handle the situations as they come. But, you cant get a SNL without solid game. The biggest issue in SNL is LMR. LMR, the resistance before sex is often an issue in your game. This often stems down to one of two issues. One is lack of qualification. If you do not qualify her, she does not know you like her. It comes down to why is she here. I have heard a girl say, “Do you even like me?” and shut me down. The second is a lack of comfort/vibing. She needs to have a connection and trust you and without this you cant sleep with her. So, to get a SNL you need to run solid game, be physical, and be lucky with logistics. But the most issue with SNL that you need new information on is LMR. Every PUA has a method to LMR. It all boils down to the fact that no means not right now. If a woman comes home with you odds are she wants to sleep with you. So, how do you handle an objection? A note of caution, when pushing an interaction, a girl may have a mental barrier that makes her not continue on. Some girls wont kiss you when just meeting you, other will not take her bra off when having sex. Sex is an intimate emotional experience, and her comfort needs to be logistically addressed. Now, the ‘no’ is handles by reflecting the situation to something different. What I mean by this is stopping the sexual thread and either just relaxing, doing a different activity or chatting her up more. If she says no, I often do the following: I say it is cool. I then turn on the TV, put on my pants, and start chatting, ramping up vibing and comfort. You need to act normal and cool. The majority of the time she will ask if you are ok, and as long as you stay congruent with it she will fold. If that does not work a gaggle of guys will start over again with touching, They will ramp up, and cool down to get her aroused. I am not big into this, as no can mean no, and I am not the super pushy guy. ---
**Author:** ![Mysterion](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mysterion/32/986_2.png) [@Mysterion](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mysterion)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/65 "2012-10-06T21:54:48Z")
> [@](#): > > It sounds like you do run or should run value oriented game. Please help me here by explaining / specifying what you mean. Attracting her by being very confident and lowering her value a lot or…? > [@](#): > > I would love your input on story telling, as I free-style it a LOT and do not root stories well to establish myself as a real person. No worries, no rules 🙂 If a story comes into your mind and it’s something which is fascinating you, tell it. Girls feel incredibly attracted to guys who are passionate about something. It’s the paralinguistics – your body language and intonation…if you are passionate one notices right away! > [@](#): > > This is why the M3 model does not jive with me. I often over pump attraction, that is why I modified my group game to group attraction Honestly? Never read about M3. I have a rough understanding of how this psychological mind fu\*\* game works and the rest is just being natural and awesome =) You notice she’s attracted when she starts investing more. First you have to attract her, so you have to invest. Then you can soon start relaxing as she will find you attractive and will try to get you. When that time has come (Just some indicators: She starts talking more detailed, she gives a lot of IOI, she tries to qualify, …), it’s time to leave the attraction phase. Push/Pull etc should happen to a reduced extent, because it is for attraction, what you want now is Rapport. And until you got deep Rapport hours pass by. > [@](#): > > I get the feeling you run very tight bar and professional game, as in in a professional environment and a bar where you can establish Alpha dominance and high value you have a very high success rate. Eh? I never go to bars. What do you mean? 😃 > [@](#): > > I do find statements of interest propel my style of game up dramatically. Just finding out when to and what to say feels strange. Even when genuine, the game I run, it tends to break or fun vibe. Any suggestions? I dont know if when I get her attraction or when she qualifies is a good point, I often wait to vibing but it is a long time to wait from my experience. Not sure if I understood you well, man. You can tell her what you like about her. Thats the dumb sh\*\* about PUA and stuff, never compliment her blabla! I say what I want. And when I approach her I show her my interest with an observational statement about her look or whatever, and compliment it. During the conversation I sometimes also compliment, it doesn’t happen too often, but if we got the same interest and I’m passionate about that interest, then I find that awesome and I express that. No point in hiding it. It’s really easy, when you see attraction has been established you stop doing cold reading/chatting and start building rapport by asking questions. Yes, you may do that. It won’t be like an interview, no worries. You’ll notice her answers will be longer than before as she is attracted and tries to qualify. If her answers are short and not detailed, back to attraction right away! Ask questions about things that interest you. You lead the topic. And if you are passionate about what you are asking, rapport and attraction will be increased simultaneously. However if youre on an instant date with her and she starts talking about deep emotional stuff and you counter with an unexpected push/pull or neg, you will come over as a complete jerk. Sometimes youve gotta hold back. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/66 "2012-10-07T20:55:26Z")
By Value game I mean you know your worth and you use it to attract women. Mystery runs value game, so does Love Systems. They do pose it by faking a higher value while naturals, like you actually have it. That is the underlining concept. They use gimicks like magic and routines to keep her interested and reveal their personality. I dislike that game because it attempts to be an Alpha and Interesting man, while it creates a false you, which is why PUA tends to suck in real application. I used a genuine story which is about a notable large boxer slugging me in my gut and me having a very awful experience in the restroom after words. But, it worked during rapport. The high value and alpha man does very well in lower key and status environments, like bars, the office, and lounges, which is what your advice seems to suggest. PUA teaches you to not compliment in most circles, I disagree, but I find without enough I come off as too dick-like and push her too far away, so statements of interest are just community talk for letting her know why you like her. Passion and Fun are the key to my game, and your game is passion and value. Fun is a value of a man, but women like other values as well. After an interesting night of game, including a single day approach infront of a girls friends and my aunt and uncle, a pull to a bar with all of us, and a solid close and a second approach with a girl who was a slow burn prospect who had a boyfriend. They both were high pressure, attractive girls my type, and one worked, one failed. I realized my slow burn game is amazing for getting ‘any girl’ in some environments but it wastes a load of time on women who are not available or my personality type. Time to re-tool my own game. Nothing is a rejection, it is all feedback. ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 5:06am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/67 "2012-10-08T05:06:57Z")
> [@](#): > > But only if who you are is a fun guy. I’m more of a serious guy who isn’t joking around, and as long as I’m not trying to be funny it’s all good. Being fun means having fun. It doesnt have to mean that you a funyn in the sense that you make jokes. ---
**Author:** ![Mysterion](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mysterion/32/986_2.png) [@Mysterion](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mysterion)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 5:54am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/68 "2012-10-08T05:54:03Z")
> [@JohnM](#): > > Being fun means having fun. It doesnt have to mean that you a funyn in the sense that you make jokes. Right, I realized it the night after I read it that I missunderstood it. But forgot to tell you guys here. Thanks for the heads up. 🙂 > [@](#): > > The high value and alpha man does very well in lower key and status environments, like bars, the office, and lounges, which is what your advice seems to suggest. Well yes no maybe. I don’t go to bars. And I don’t game at specific locations. Sometimes I do it on my way home, sometimes I feel like prowling a while so I go to the city centre etc. And if you like clubs, you can go there. Just an important thing is, if people think they cannot get a girl unless they’re in a club and drunk, there’s something terribly wrong ! The good thing about flirting is that you can be yourself. It’s so important. In fact, so many guys get rejected because they fake a different personality. So yes, being yourself (+ not caring about the outcome) = fun value skyrocket. Anywhere! ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/69 "2012-10-08T20:11:24Z")
I agree with you, completely. If you go out to game, you have an outcome attached and will do bad. PUA is about being a normal dude, really. A load of guys do not have those socials muscles and learn how to navigate around common hurdles. **Sticking Points in GAME.** A common difference between guys who are great and guys who quit this self help journey are a running list of sticking points. Sticking points are issues that you have that hold back you game. If you have a sticking point, odds are it is common and most guys have it. So ask here. Common are: -Qualification -Over Attraction -Approach Anxiety -Anxiety -Lack of Calibration I can go into these topics or more. When you get better, you will get more issues. But they become quality issues, such as a lack of time, too many women, and not wanting to hurt women. I’d like to talk about my sticking points. So you understand how I have real issues despite gong out nearly every night to socialize and practice something. _Anxiety_ I have social anxiety. A LOT. And anxiety of pushing into the unknown. I struggle with it every night. A large problem is my best bud is a natural who had sticking points of approaching as well, so we chill often solo. To leave him bothers me. I also get anxiety in asking for a number. I get nervous and anxious. I know I just need to do it, and have done hundreds of approaches, but still struggle. I can desensitize myself and get momentum but I still struggle. It boils down to not knowing my own self worth. I need to realize I deserve this all. A side rant on numbers is that they mean nothing. You can ask every girl for a number and get it, but go no where. _Qualifying into Comfort_ I spin my wheels in attraction often. I over-tease and come off like an a-hole a LOT. I tend to wait too long to qualify. I enjoy flirting, using negs, and I love the womans reaction. I have this sticking point from old school value game. But waiting for twenty minutes in attraction is wasted time. It is so bad that wings will text me and say, and quote (Have them on my phone still) “DUDE, SHE IS INTO YOU. GET HER NUMBER.” It is bad because I know she will flake, I need more comfort and qualification. _Being Genuine_ I often stick with newbie crutches such as fake answers. I am not honest and do not reveal a lot about myself. I do know most of my life I took pride in having nothing to hide and being an open book but after being around PUA guys and them beating into my head it was bad I stuck with it. I also have many approaches that I was not genuine, or all of them really, and I get a girl to say “I just do not know about you” or some variation, which means if I do not close that night I was done. No second meet up. The key is that I know these things, and have them as a list in my phone. I turn this into a take away and pul out my phone to read a bit about where I am and to text a wing and see where he thinks I am. **What you say and the other 90%.** You words mean nothing. Really. Odds are a woman decides about you by how confidently you approach, how you look, your body language and your tone of voice. Realizing this is huge. Sure, with slow burn social game like mine you can build an interaction and change her emotional perception, but it comes from a place of entertainment and emotional pumping. To get good with girls you need to realize its not about your words. If she likes you, its about making her ok with your presence as a man. A PUA I had the pleasure of meeting one on one once at a bar was Jon Sinn. Now, Jon is a guy who was Mystery’s head instructor for a time and evolved his game into a strong SNL and non-validation game. He said a woman likes you even if you approach her. But the details come down to body chemistry. Believe it or not, he mentioned your natural body pheramones. Now, I do not think he uses them or knows about them, but he has a point. You cant change who you are, but you can drag her into your world to show your true self. I find that being a dominant man and leading are huge for non-verbal communication, but your pheramone signature plays a role. Women actually enjoy the scent of mens sweat glans after a healthy work out. But have bad hygine and not being clean. I advise using mones if you get your stuff straight. IO, A314 and IH and staples in being open and generic to all women to make your scent receptive to all women. Also practice good body language and being loud enough for her to hear you. Conversation techniques mean nothing if you come off as creepy and repulsive. **Being Fat, Having Acne, Being Short** These are huge issues guys have in game. And all PUA companies will say they can teach you to over-come them. I am chubby and started PUA as a lardo, but in honesty, you cant over-come these issue completely. I will elaborate as to why. First is they hurt your self confidence. Looking good equates to feeling good, so you must handle these issues. Second, and most important is what they mean. If you are overweight is signals you are lazy, lack motivation and do not care about your body. Just as being short shows you genetically show that your family has the short genetic strand. Acne can signal that you lack proper washing habits. Its less about you being these things and about what they project. Which do you think is worse? Being fat or being old/having acne or being short? It boils down to fixing things you can fix to not have people think negative things about your personality. ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 11:18am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/70 "2012-10-10T11:18:41Z")
> [@](#): > > I have social anxiety. A LOT. And anxiety of pushing into the unknown. I struggle with it every night. A large problem is my best bud is a natural who had sticking points of approaching as well, so we chill often solo. To leave him bothers me. How many nonsocial anxieties have you fast lately? If you have a strong general fear of the unknown going travel alone and without much preplanning can be a worthwhile experience. Facing the idea of your own mortality would be a different challenge. When you deal with the idea of your own death it puts other issues into perspective. > [@](#): > > Being Fat, Having Acne, Being Short These are huge issues guys have in game. And all PUA companies will say they can teach you to over-come them. I am chubby and started PUA as a lardo, but in honesty, you cant over-come these issue completely. > …] First is they hurt your self confidence. Looking good equates to feeling good, so you must handle these issues. Whether something can hurt your confidence depends on the emotional self control that you have. One of the issues with PUA companies is that they usually sell quick fixes: Here’s this weekend workshop and that will solve your problem. In reality deep personality changes often take a lot of time. You are 21. If you spend another decade working on your personal development you will likely reach a state where you can do a lot of stuff that you today don’t consider possible. Most people won’t work much on their own development and keep their issues with them over time. They take the blue pill. You can take the red pill and improve yourself. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/71 "2012-10-10T19:01:00Z")
> [@JohnM](#): > > How many nonsocial anxieties have you fast lately? > If you have a strong general fear of the unknown going travel alone and without much preplanning can be a worthwhile experience. > > Facing the idea of your own mortality would be a different challenge. When you deal with the idea of your own death it puts other issues into perspective. > Whether something can hurt your confidence depends on the emotional self control that you have. > > One of the issues with PUA companies is that they usually sell quick fixes: Here’s this weekend workshop and that will solve your problem. > In reality deep personality changes often take a lot of time. > > You are 21. If you spend another decade working on your personal development you will likely reach a state where you can do a lot of stuff that you today don’t consider possible. > Most people won’t work much on their own development and keep their issues with them over time. They take the blue pill. > You can take the red pill and improve yourself. I have anxiety around social situations and death. Not of travel, I travel solo to compete all the time. I am getting over my sticking points, those are just mine. I know a plethora of PUA’s who have a list they work on, that is why I mentioned it. It is important to keep working on your weaknesses. I am working on self development but am close to my ideal. The point of that post was that something no amount of social skill can overcome due to the perception they give of you to other people. Not from just personal experience, but in a broader sense. ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 5:48am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/72 "2012-10-11T05:48:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I am working on self development but am close to my ideal. Given that you frequently said in this thread that you think that certain things are impossible I think that might say more about how you define your ideal than it says about where you are at the moment. And I don’t want to critize where you are at the moment. > [@](#): > > The point of that post was that something no amount of social skill can overcome due to the perception they give of you to other people. I don’t think that all overweight people get seen as being lazy and unmotivated. I know a guy who’s clinically diagnosed with Asbergers. He uncomfortable with hugging strangers and sometimes even prefers not to shake their hand. At the same time he’s on of the guys with the most skill with woman that I know. He’s exiting to be around. There no way he could come across as an “average” guy. I find that if someone has well developed strengths people usually start to accept his weaknesses and don’t hold them against him. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/73 "2012-10-15T22:01:34Z")
> [@JohnM](#): > > Given that you frequently said in this thread that you think that certain things are impossible I think that might say more about how you define your ideal than it says about where you are at the moment. > And I don’t want to critize where you are at the moment. > I don’t think that all overweight people get seen as being lazy and unmotivated. > > I know a guy who’s clinically diagnosed with Asbergers. He uncomfortable with hugging strangers and sometimes even prefers not to shake their hand. > At the same time he’s on of the guys with the most skill with woman that I know. > He’s exiting to be around. There no way he could come across as an “average” guy. > > I find that if someone has well developed strengths people usually start to accept his weaknesses and don’t hold them against him. I attempt to quantify that its not possible to be perfect and eliminate all issues, so you need to go out and keep working at it. Ideal and perfect are false goals that evolve over time, meaning what I see as operfect today is not what it is tomorrow. But I tell people I teach (In general, I teach as a job) that you should not strive to be perfect, you cant be, strive to do the best you can. It is something attainable. While you may be able to accomplish one task perfectly, when you interact with variables it will never play out as it should, so people must strive to improve. We are getting deeper into an interpretation of how I view the world and I how I tend to teach things. I am not one to flaunt out you cant do something, but thinking you can get to the point of being perfect consistently is huge goal to have, one that most people fail to do and get discouraged. The overweight topic is not a personal one, it is just a metaphor in PUA reference to fix what you can to maximize your success. I did better with women when heavy when I started for a plethora of reasons. Stereotypes exist and it helps to not be crippled by them. I appreciate the input. My ideal self is ever changing. But my ideal self when I started to improve my quality of life was in part of vanity, being social, and confident in a raw sense. Being to a point of happiness on those areas I am close to, so that is my ideal. You can overcome issues or manage them with other strengths. Its hard, and speaks volumes about you as a person. I am not referencing this, I was attempting to be motivational. Fix what you can. If you can fix something, and dont, you take that responsibility upon youself. The tings you cant fix are not as bad, as you cant control them. I did not intend to come across as saying having a serious illness or condition deters you, just that things which people know you can fix will deter you. So fix those issues! The nest topic I think I will dive into are my personal sure-fire openers and transitions. I am a guy who does not use them often and goes direct, but I still have work horses I use as a crutch as needed. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/74 "2012-10-16T20:22:18Z")
**Openers.** For advanced guys openers do not matter. You really can say anything to open a group. But, for new guys Openers are a way to use a line that works and gives you time to calibrate your tone, projection and body language. Openers serve a better purpose, it allows you to weed through women. With some openers you can include something brash, funny or assertive to find a woman who is compatible with you. With this in mind, I have some openers I use on a frequent basis when I have a goal other than a relationship. That is what I most often fish for, but, goals differ. So, here goes my bag of openers. I have multiple for specific situations. Keep in mind I use these when I am looking for a specific woman, and hello may not work due to a specific situation. Brad P’s DTR opener. Brad P is a same night lay guru who runs club game, and does not rely upon cold approaching. My Club Game mirrors his, which I discovered on my own from going to Miami and Chicago clubs. I strongly suggest his stuff for clubs as it makes sense as well as a different look into same night sex. His DTR opener is going up to a ‘set’ or group and jumping right in, and you say, “Excuse me (Pause), am I interupting some lesbian DTR discussion?” For those who dont know, DTR is young women text lingo for Determine the Relationship. And that is a chat women have with guys to see what the two of you are, friends, lovers, ect. What I say is a bit different, as I do not say lesbian. He thinks its funny and wants to get a woman for that night, while I dont, I use it for mixed sets to blow it open and get everyone chatting with or about me. RSD Geoff’s Take me home opener. RSD Geoff has married and now has a child with his wife, but about five years ago he was a pioneer and wing man.mentor of RSD’s Jeffy. He gave me this opener that he used to get instant attraction, which after you hear it it will make sense. It takes balls. It takes a couple shots in your system most of the time, but when it fails I still find it hilarious. You say “Hey, Hows it going.” She says something. You say, “What are you up to later.” She tells you. You say, “Want to come home with me.” The key is, to not retract, stay out their as the tension builds and she realizes what you said. My success with this one is different than most guys, as when I have used it I get the giggly hair play, she touches me, ect. A few times I have had women lunge at me and start kissing me. Geoff says it gets him laid (Or did). But what I find is that it opens me up to a load of womens tests. Shit/Congruence tests. If I am as confident and direct as I project with my opener, I am that special guy. But, those tests are a form of attraction. When I get tested I view it as a higher level of attraction, she wants to see all you are. Day Game Direct Opener. Day Game has only a few accurate openers guys use. So this one is common. “Hey. Thought you were cute, had to meet you.” When I say it I extent my arm out to touch her arm, and speak loudly to get her attention. I also pause after hey. My opener has variations. Cute can be subbed out for nearly any other adjective. I also pre-frame a lot. Depending where you are, women get approached by salesmen and homeless, so I have a short statement, such as, “Dont worry, I am not a salesman, but…” Another trick I got from Sasha (A PUA who was Mystery friend and later became a day game innovator) is to stack pre-frames, so you say you are not a salesman, not a beggar, not a kidnapper in sequence. In Day Game openers I use as few words as possible to get my point accross, just like always. You slow speech down and project your voice to get her attention. A pre-frame I love to use, is “I am not Racist but” or “I am not homophobic, but” I think it is funny and it screens women out who share my sense of humor. My Personal Baby - Sour Patch Opener This is golden for younger girls. I made it on the fly when I saw two girls who were walking around a mall and ‘guy shopping’ if you will. I was with my buddy and had to take action, so dove in and went free-style, and if was amazing. I go up to them, and say, “Hey. (Pause). You two arn’t those sour patch friends are you?” They look at your confused. “You know, sour patch kids. One sour friend, one sweet friend.” I then transition with a Cold Read about which friend is which. I also tease the one I like about that I dont hang out with Sweet/Sour people. I take it further with my wing and say she should talk to him, as he is the sweet/sour friend like her and would get along. I used it and liked it so much I decided to type it in my phone and keep using it. I talked for five minutes off the same teasing line form the opener and got plans for a date and a number out of it, and an insta-date. I love it! My four opener’s really are all I use. I have a couple more, but dont use them. I stick with a commanding “Hey” most of the time. I use openers when it would be strange to open casually due to society. Any other self made openers? ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 11:44am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/75 "2012-10-24T11:44:19Z")
Kimba Remember me? I spoke about how I wanted to get a hottesses #.. Anwyays you advised I stay away from her for a few weeks, and then return and state something like “We’ve got a lot of catching up to do, I should get your number so I can contact you.”. Well I did meet her again a few weeks later, made some small talk, invited her over to my table for a few minutes and pulled it off. Got the digits. here’s the thing. I called her 2 days later and got voicemail.. I am not PUA so I just stated who I was so she’d remember and told her I wanted to talk to her.. I gave her my # on the voicemail and told her to call it around noon most days of the week. A few minutes later I also shot out a text message stating I sent her a voicemail and also stating that noon is when I take my lunch hour and left her my # and name. Now the big question is, do you recommend I wait for her to call me back even if it means weeks since the ball is in her court? Or do you think I should follow back up? if I do follow back up how long should I wait . and I get her on the phone I’ll ask her out after some brief small talk (I figure the less games the better). If I get her voicemail again what should I say? I really don’t want to play telephone tag. Please shed some light. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/76 "2012-10-24T20:55:18Z")
Of course I remember you. Id handle it one of two ways, but first let me spew some normal PUA mumbo jumbo First thing is, the two day rule is out dated, the rule is to simply wait a tad longer than she takes to reply. I often call or text as soon as I get the number in front oif her to ensure its real. Second thing is, you are without a doubt in Damage Control. A call and a text are two attempts to her zero, you are coming off (Odds are) as the annoying guy she regrets giving her number to. Third, did you solidify the date? A great way to increase the odds of a number following through is as follows: 1. Make plans and say you need to have your secretary clear the day, and be serious. If she doesnt say yes, 100% say, “Oh, ok, guess it was nice seeing you.” and tease her for not being able to go out. 2. Do a FAP to make some fun, shared dream that may be a date, such as flying to Australia and hunting wombats. Use that as call back humor as in reference is when you call or text her. I have others, but I dont use them very often personally, so dont have a good success rate for them. Now, assuming you did everything wrong, here is what I would do. Option one is the more reliable one, and safer one. I would wait a few days then go to her work, and act if nothing happened. If she is your server tease her right away and say, “You missed a crazy party, you would have loved to meet the band.” Or some other cryptic message that insinuates it was incredible. And go on like nothing happened. Deliver the line with a cheeky grin on your face and be upbeat about the subject. Odds are she will pry and you can say it would have been her type of thing, maybe next time. Beat around the bush. If she keeps pushing, mess with her and say something rediculous like, “Its ok, I doubt you would have wanted to meet celebrities.” Catch my drift? Make it sound like she missed the most epic night ever, and it is her fault for missing the fun, but to you it was no big deal. Then you keep teasing, do a role play or FAP and set up an imaginary meet up, even if its slaying dragons in a FAP. Then, text her and offer to go do that activity. If she does not reply, she really is not into you, despite her actions. Option two I use when I REALLY want to see her again, and know the feeling is not mutual. I had a point when starting out where Id go into every group and get all of the girls numbers, and call them all. Some would surprise you and call that you only said hi to, others would not call when you spent five hours with her and were making out. It was kinda hit and miss. So, I devised operation persistence. I’d call it super needy guy. First thing I do is call, and get the non-response. I wait the couple days, then I leave a few texts in a row, begging to see her. I do it over, and over and over again for a couple days. I then take a couple day break, and text her, “Why did you text me so many times?” Most of the time she reply that she did not, and then I say she did, call her a fibber, and tell her to prove it. If she refuses I try to set up a meet-up and if she refuses, I start over. Now, it does not hurt to follow up and be genuine, but at this point, something did not hook correctly and she is either super busy, or not into you. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/77 "2013-01-13T19:16:04Z")
HELLO GUYS! I HAVE SPENT THE LAST THREE MONTHS OF SO GAMING! SOOOOOO…GLORY IS ABOUT TO BE SHARED! I was out of work and blind for three months. I got vision in one eye after being unable to see for three weeks. What is a guy to do? I decided to shove food into my mouth, sleep, and BREAK DOWN EVERY SOCIAL INTERACTION I EVER HAD WITH A WOMAN. THAT IS RIGHT, I SPEND OVER 12 HOURS A DAY WORKING ON GAME, AND MY STICKING POINTS IN MY HEAD. 😉 Then I could see in one eye, and I went out and spewed GLORY. GOLDEN SHOWERS OF GAME CAME OUT. 🆒 A synopsis of my experiences: 1. I became three women’s booty call (As recently as last night). 2. I pulled a three some on New Years Eve with the only hot girls at the party. 3. I got over 25 lays in 90 days. 4. I picked a girl working at McDonald’s. 5. I took several guys out and taught game. And the biggest, I had two girls help me survive financially. Well, their parents did because they had rich parents. So, this is a SUPER POST on game. My ENTIRE APPROACH HAS CHANGED. Where to begin? Well, I want questions as always, and guys who want help to ask me what they need or want. I plan on breaking down a concept of game first on Same Night Lays, and I had an epiphany after getting three lays in under 30 minutes. One in about five. 🆒 SNL game is all about understanding the social matrix on how people interact with each other and women’s sexual advances. Heck, I realized how trivial game was. I went out enough to know when a gal did X, this would happen next. Which is GREAT. I then dove further into body language (I dont advise reading ten books on body language, a book a day) and Improv Acting to understand how we use our body to communicate. Then I dove into NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming) to understand how we use our ‘voice’ to communicate. I spent a LOT of time to learn this: **FOR QUICK SEX, IT IS ABOUT HER MORE THAN YOU.** I spent a few weeks going out, getting more than ten numbers a night and setting up ‘dates’ I could not afford to go onto. Then I realized getting to know every girl sucked. I did not feel chemistry for most of them, and the one’s who were into me did not care that I am a cool guy with a Black Belt in Karate, who has a 50K a year job, teaches boxing and Dating Science and also has a degree in History. I broke down what ‘love’ was. The emotional process of truly getting to know and connect to someone. But that was wasted effort if you ‘just’ wanted sex. So here it is, how I did it: 1. Spot girl giving you signals or starring. 2. Say Hello. 3. Touch a lot. 4. Have Balls. Easier said than done. But if you jump on every chance you get, a girl may say no but respects you for it. The system is to have fun, do what you want, find a girl who likes what she is viewing, and capitalize. Once you have sex (Which is rather simple to do) you have an emotional and fun connection, then get to know her. I know, PUA is the opposite. It is not ‘solid’ game to attract, then sleep with a girl. Women will accuse you trying to seduce them if you use your words only. A lot is different from “Hey baby, we going to my place?” As opposed to, “HEY, I am HUNGRY. LETS GO EAT! _Grab her hand and run with her to a secluded area_” She KNOWS what is up. Do not hide it. GO FOR IT. This being said, a lot of this is ‘calibration’. And that can be taught but no one can figure out how to do so. Lucky for you, I have and did. I have a buddy who got laid because of it. 1. Study Body Language to the point of knowing when a person likes what they see/hear. 2. When she is into you, Break Rapport. (Tease, Backturn, push away etc) 3. When she isnt into you, be cool and social. 4. Buy my product. Ok, maybe not buy my product. But if you understand if a gal is into you or not and do the typical PUA junk in accordance, you are calibrated. When she is into you, you move and lead. You also escalate (Kiss, and Sex). This is COMMON SENSE. But if you do the whole PUA route you mess this up. It is a lack of experience. But also, if you dont know PUA stuff, odds are you dont have big enough balls to do this type of thing. I know I did not. But, when you do more and more crazy stuff, you gain them. Any questions? Or DISCUSSION! PLEASE! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![PMI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/85e7bf/32.png) [@PMI](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PMI)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 10:08am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/78 "2013-01-14T10:08:18Z")
First congrats on your game success, it is really amazing that you effectively used your time. Well, I have a question-or-two 😉 Could you please write more about PUA game for women 35-45? I read a lot about gaming, but wonder is it applicable for older women? I guess that girl in 20-25 will react differently than a women in 40 on your game. Your thoughts/tips/tricks? Please recommend books/sites about body language, “improv acting” thing (I don’t know what is it) and NLP, you mentioned in your post. thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Mysterion](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mysterion/32/986_2.png) [@Mysterion](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mysterion)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/79 "2013-01-14T13:25:23Z")
First of all, congratulations 🙂 Now, this is only my impression and oppinion and please don’t be offended: Ive respected you a lot for all your effort in your first posts in this thread, but that last one seemed like 80% bragging to me. With that said, I think you’re also right: there’s some women who are ready for sex quicker than others, and if you go that route most pua teach, like an hour or two of rapport to make sure, you can easily miss an obvious chance. These obvious chances come more and more naturally once you start **authentically** touching her early during conversation, with a bold accent because I can only facepalm when I see people touching a woman although they don’t feel comfortable doing it. They’re not themselves. It ruins every bit of attraction. I’m one of the guys who don’t like touching early before knowing them, why? I don’t know. Guess what: I also don’t like to be touched without having given obvious indicators of approval. If a woman did that to me, sexy or not, without I knowing her I’d give her an awkward time. This is my personal bubble. Just like I respect hers she must respect mine. To melt that bubble it takes trust and trust isn’t earned through attraction but comfort. On that “words arent so important” I couldn’t agree more! I usually just say “I’m hungry, let’s go somewhere” or “I’m cold, let’s get somewhere warm” and grab her arm (of course after some time of conversation when both sides feel comfortable doing so). She’ll never call you a playa trying to seduce her or other shit tests, she’ll find you much more attractive for just doing it and also your chances of success are doubled. This advice is worth gold, man. Good job. PS: remember KIMBA, I’m a daygamer. My post was all about my oppinion about ways for daygame success. A lot more touching in nightclubs going on for sure, which is one of the many reasons why I avoid those places. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/80 "2013-01-16T00:32:41Z")
> [@PMI](#): > > First congrats on your game success, it is really amazing that you effectively used your time. > > Well, I have a question-or-two 😉 > > Could you please write more about PUA game for women 35-45? I read a lot about gaming, but wonder is it applicable for older women? I guess that girl in 20-25 will react differently than a women in 40 on your game. Your thoughts/tips/tricks? > > Please recommend books/sites about body language, “improv acting” thing (I don’t know what is it) and NLP, you mentioned in your post. > > thank you! Improvational Acting is speed acting. You get no prep time. Like the Drew Carry show Whose Line is it Anyway. Amazon has a few books on it. Alan Pease (I think) has a great book. Their is also a from an FBI agent called “What every BODY is saying” or something to that affect. Those last two are body language. NLP is a psuedo science on how we communicate. Introduction to NLP is a good primer on the subject. Essentially, voice tone, patterns behind body language and tone are covered, as well as how we say things effects their meaning. Its a deep subject which is sketchy. It also does go into how and why we view the world as we do. A lot of it is applied in political science now. Generally, older women are more straight shooters. Good story telling is more important. If they want you they go for it and are more obvious. I would run more Cold Reading, and less high energy attraction stuff. I can do a post eventually, but I am 21, I game 25 and under. I need a lot more experience in closing older women. The oldest was 29 I believe. She seduced me, I did my normal game and she loved it. Banter and Vibing still works on older women. But being direct with intent is so much more powerful. Older women have seen it all, so being fast on your feet is huge. Most of them want relationships or an escape from one. Also may be looking for a child. You need to be able to read her situation better to see if she is worth the relationship. And thank you. > [@Mysterion](#): > > First of all, congratulations 🙂 > > Now, this is only my impression and oppinion and please don’t be offended: Ive respected you a lot for all your effort in your first posts in this thread, but that last one seemed like 80% bragging to me. > With that said, I think you’re also right: there’s some women who are ready for sex quicker than others, and if you go that route most pua teach, like an hour or two of rapport to make sure, you can easily miss an obvious chance. > > These obvious chances come more and more naturally once you start **authentically** touching her early during conversation, with a bold accent because I can only facepalm when I see people touching a woman although they don’t feel comfortable doing it. They’re not themselves. It ruins every bit of attraction. I’m one of the guys who don’t like touching early before knowing them, why? I don’t know. Guess what: I also don’t like to be touched without having given obvious indicators of approval. If a woman did that to me, sexy or not, without I knowing her I’d give her an awkward time. This is my personal bubble. Just like I respect hers she must respect mine. To melt that bubble it takes trust and trust isn’t earned through attraction but comfort. > > On that “words arent so important” I couldn’t agree more! I usually just say “I’m hungry, let’s go somewhere” or “I’m cold, let’s get somewhere warm” and grab her arm (of course after some time of conversation when both sides feel comfortable doing so). She’ll never call you a playa trying to seduce her or other shit tests, she’ll find you much more attractive for just doing it and also your chances of success are doubled. This advice is worth gold, man. Good job. > > PS: remember KIMBA, I’m a daygamer. My post was all about my oppinion about ways for daygame success. A lot more touching in nightclubs going on for sure, which is one of the many reasons why I avoid those places. It is a lot of bragging. No hiding it. My game took a HUGE turn. I actually took a guy out when blind and opened sets for him, “Hey, my friend lost his sight, can you help him find it?” and they would laugh. Then I would say, “Oh, by friend I mean me. And this guy is my seeing eye human. YOU ARE SOO MEAN!” Great laughs were had, then horror, then shit test on vision, then make outs out of pity, and I had two closes when blind. I Re-enacted some blind movies by touching their faces. It was great! I dont mean to brag, but that is how it came out. It was more like word vomit. I wanted a profound post on how easy it is, then wrote a lot and realized how hard that would be to teach, and how it conflicted with what I previously posted, then tried to edit it, then I boiled it down to what you see. Daygame, I have a LOT to say on day game. First, your words matter a lot more during the day. You gave examples of justifications for doing things with you. This is a glitch in a womans defense mechanism, it means no Anti-Slut protection shield activation. But, in general, as long as you have strong intent and proper voice control you are golden. I in fact learn a bit from NLP on how voice tone can be used to break rapport, which is PUA attraction building. Yelling, Mocking, Arguing is all breaking rapport. While supplication (Higher pitch, to not offend) loses attraction in a bad way. Neutral is normal conversation. Mastering this, you can turn any words into seductive language. I purposely set up Tests now. If I set it up, I know I can pass it. I also introduced a topic of stacking tests on a PUA site to build massive attraction. I used it a bit, it works wonders. It is an advanced thing I could go over, but wont unless asked. Not many guys can pull it off and I stumbled upon it by mistake. Great mistake. 😃 Back around to day game. I sharpened my teeth in day game. I find I get away with a lot more community attraction stuff at night, such as Kino, Games, and Routines so I never dont have something good to say or do. During the day it slowed down. I use day game to perfect body language, voice control and tone. It is a great tool. That being said, In day game I follow a specific protocol. I do this: Open Semi-Direct, Tease, Qualify question, tease. I cycle this with a story or relation to the topic. Teasing is key because it shows you are fun and playful as well as shows you are paying attention to what she says. My favorite day game open is, “HEY, I am not trying to be racist, but I think your shoes are fun.” It is a “WTF” moment followed by attraction. It also stops her in her tracks if you deliver it well and she is INTO you. As far as Kino goes, I do the same thing as at night. I calibrate for the girl. When I first went out to PUA I had good social skills, and could read people from public speaking and reading judges from tournaments. I would lightly touch her arm, fist bump, handshake. That the the extent. Maybe hand holding and leading to another place after chatting a while. I dont advise you to force touching. A LOT of my touch game is tickling, pushing and slapping. Often a girl will touch me first and I slap or push it away. It becomes a game. I no longer look for this type of thing. I stopped because on my first HB11 I had (Cheerleader, Softball player, Waitress as a high end steakhouse, intelligent, a super tight bottom) I didnt have Kino figured out. It was day game, I opened, and forced Kino. She then tested me HARD. In a new way, and it messed me up so bad I blew myself out. I was robotic and it came off awkward. If it feels right or if you think you should have, you should have made the move. Thats the kissing/touching rule. ---
**Author:** ![KIMBA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@KIMBA](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/KIMBA)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612/81 "2013-01-24T21:31:13Z")
**Re-Tool of this thread.** This is the first of MANY posts on game I am about to vomit out over the next few days. When I made this thread my game was good. I could close quick, but would fold in man situations. I was no PUA, a social and interesting guy who identified as a PUA. For simplicity sake, I am not a PUA, mPUA or Guru. Labels suck. Never box yourself into a role. I have a deeper understanding on Game, Calibration, and efficacy of game. And the importance of good game. Game is the analytical understanding of social situations. Value comes into play, do not be fooled. But value is like attraction, a fluid emotion. Your value as a man to a woman is more important than your assumed value as a person. PUA is a way to express your desire under some pretense. The fact is a woman knows what is going on and does in fact judge you. But a mental shift is, she knows you judged her first. When you go out and meet a lady, most guys think that a girl holds all the power. Which is false. Most of the time a gal will not approach. You are the selector. She may blow you off, but I often find it is because you hid your emotions in disguise as indirect. When you first introduce yourself and meet, it should come from the place of you screening her to see if you two have chemistry. You are not tricking her or convincing her, you as a person are great enough for any woman. If you have money, looks, confidence, Game, it helps. But your presence as a man who owns his own intentions in life is more attractive than any other trait in life. The man who takes the chance is the man who reaps the greatest reward. This is an unspoken truth to game. I can rattle off PUA’s names and cite real life experiences, but if you have a desire or emotion, chase it. The worst that can happen when trying to meet a new person is they do not have room for you at that time. Before I get into my Re-Tool (Its late and I am tired) I want to share a VERY motivational story. **The One that got away.** I mentioned previously on this board that I met one HB11 in my life. A pretty brunette with blonde highlights. She worked as a waitress at a higher end bar/steakhouse. She played sports through college and was a cheerleader. Amazing body, great face, and super FUN. My type of girl. About 5’8. Goodness. When I met her, (Over a year ago) I was with my wing who was single at the time. I opened her and her friend, sat them down with us. I picked the 11, but the other girl was not feeling anything, she wanted to go home. I gamed the 11 and so did my buddy. I ran GREAT attraction, and forced two Tests. At the time I had no concept of solving them like I now do. I handled one, got another (Because I handled the first in a way which challenged the reality of the situation more) and blew myself out. I got bitter, and tried to re-engage. The girl tried to block me out. I ended up ruining it, or I thought, for my buddy. She told with a hair flip, “I dont know about you.” This messed me up pretty good, I felt the void of losing attraction and felt I ruined a good interaction. We soon lost the set when a guy busted out his guitar and sang in the lounge for about 30 minutes. I got them to re-engage but I felt too much damage was done. My win soon got a great GF who he now loves with a little assistance from me and I went on to work on my game. I got vastly better quickly. I worked at this religiously. Banter with co-workers for 10 hours straight, Day game for a few hours after work, then I went out no less than 5 nights a week. This was on top of working hellish hours and boxing. I did not sleep, ate like crap, but pulled ladies. It did not matter, I never hit it off like I wanted. That one gal was and is the one who got away. We had chemistry. I felt it. Fast foreword to about three nights ago. I went out with the same wing. A better looking, in shape, social and fun guy. I was not wearing mones, was only so-so on the energy scale and not super fun yet. I saw a cute gale get up and walk infront of my buddy and I. It was the HB11. I thought it was her, but a year of going out and drinking will cause your mind to get hazy. But she opened me. 11: Hey, um, this is random but I saw you and I think I know you. Me: I dont think so, I remember faces. 11: Are you sure, did you go to X school? Do you know X person? Have you been to X bar, I work there. _This continued for about 5 minutes_ Me: Nope. You would remember me if we met. 11: I DO REMEMBER YOU! My name is Stacey. You? Me: I am Kimba, this is my wing, Dan. 11: _Ignoring my wing_ What do you do for work then? Me: I work at such and such… This conversation continued for about 10 more minutes. I was dumbfounded. I had NO idea what to say. The gal I had gotten great at game for opened me. She did not remember me, it was her way of saying she digged me. She sat back at her table, and I could not think of something good to say until she walked away. She keep trying to look away from me and she chatted her friends up. The owner came by us, then to her table and she unloaded questions to him about who I was, where I am from, if I said something about her, etc. He reported back, but I was frozen. I had NOTHING to say. I had spent a year getting away from lines and routines and developing myself as a person, and removing small talk. When I have gotten opened before I was always ‘ON’ and gaming already. Not this time. My wing and other guys keep trying to push me into her group, but I wussed out. I got my courage up (Without drinking) and I look over and they were leaving. She waived goodbye and that was that. I missed a PRIME opportunity with my perfect gal. I remember beating myself up the first time. Not so much the second. I was more attractive in how I walk, dress and carry myself that I got opened. Funny, ironic, interesting turn of events. Our first interaction I was just another guy. A needy guy who was playing a game. I became a confident man who let a moment slip him by. I got some great advice by the other guys, but it would not change something I lack, courage. I need to work on courage and remembering some of the amazing lines and routines I have said before. I need to work on Improv again. Lighting, does it strike twice? Yes. My game has been sparked again. For the better. Good game is the combination of knowing how to handle social situations and leading. This is why I need to re-tool the thread. I know what needs to be said and done, but the fact is knowing is not enough. Action is a key part. Knowing what to say and do in combination with a step by step approach is what people need to grasp this quickest. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612.md?page=3) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/getting-the-woman/56612.md?page=5)