# Help to the Masses **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [March 12, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992 "2011-03-12T16:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jabez](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jabez/32/2193_2.png) [@Jabez](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jabez)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/1 "2011-03-12T16:24:02Z")
I am going to make a thread dedicated to getting better with women. What would you guys like to know more about? ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/2 "2011-03-12T17:32:32Z")
I moved this down to the lounge for yah 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jabez](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jabez/32/2193_2.png) [@Jabez](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jabez)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/3 "2011-03-12T18:00:24Z")
Thank ya Steve. Suprised Me though I was going to check back on it and it was gone lol ---
**Author:** ![jnoel](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jnoel/32/650_2.png) [@jnoel](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jnoel)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/4 "2011-03-12T19:21:28Z")
I would honestly say all. Personally I can pull off a friendly approach without much interest, but that throws me into the friend zone quickly. What I need to learn more is midgame and how to escalate and keep myself out of the friend zone I love your approach lines too. I think you should also share a list of ones that work best for you. Thanks for this thread btw, its gonna get really interesting ---
**Author:** ![England](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/england/32/1163_2.png) [@England](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/England)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/5 "2011-03-13T17:43:22Z")
Three words. Approaching. Approaching. Approaching. ---
**Author:** ![socialnexus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@socialnexus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/socialnexus)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/6 "2011-03-13T19:05:03Z")
> [@England](#): > > Three words. Approaching. Approaching. Approaching. APPROACHING. The rest is a piece of cake. P.S. I only joined the forum last night and haven’t left my computer screen, all of your journals and reviews are fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Jabez](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jabez/32/2193_2.png) [@Jabez](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jabez)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 12:45am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/7 "2011-03-14T00:45:33Z")
Well before we jump into approaching. I want to give you a brief summary. I am 20 currently enrolled in Tech School. Changed over from going to be an electrician to being a Network Specialist. I got dealt a shitty hand, father died when I was 11 and I got ADD. Made life hard. But I \*overcame these and became good with women. Without further ado. The Secret to bei g good with women is to know that you already are. Everyman has the gene of the Alpha in them. From the time of our ancestors. We have survived and breeder to become the societies and the people that we are today. So the first thing we are going to cover is Approach Anxiety. That shit is a real pain in the ass and illogical. Every fear that we have is learned. When you are born you are not scares of women. When you are born you are not afraid of water somethig traumatic or bad has to happen, to cause you to be afraid of these things. Whether it is Uncle Buck tossed you into the lake Or some heartless bitch shot you down. Brothers, colleagues, friends being afraid of that hot blonde sitting across the room makes no fucking sense. That women is probably 120 lbs max and prob 5-6 to 5-10 that is not something to not be afraid of. We used to kill fucking shit that was 5-6x times bigger then us. We are men. We are made to take control, lead the women \*and tell them that everything is going to be ok. Overcoming approach anxiety can be a bitch. The hardest facet of it is goj g up to the girl. Forget about the outcome. Do not expect and outcome, go in with the mindset that you are the mother fucking shit and the girl is trying to impress you not you impress her. You are a man. You do not care whether or not she rejects you. Just like a bad boy because win or lose there are more women put there and you are not going to waste time on half ass quality women. If she is not submissive, fuck her and move on. We want women to add to our life four enjoyment. Not for competition and contest for the balance of power. We are the shit and age is just dog shit. As they said in the 40 yr old virgin gotta stop putting the pussy up on a pedestal. \*Win or lose you will be fine without that girl. Treat the girl like a buddy. Give her shit and ask her about her self. She is not shit. She is an equal nothing more Oh Btw what part of approach you guys wanna know more about? ---
**Author:** ![Jabez](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jabez/32/2193_2.png) [@Jabez](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jabez)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/8 "2011-03-15T23:42:58Z")
Overcoming approach anxiety can be a bitch. The hardest facet of it is goj g up to the girl. Forget about the outcome. Do not expect and outcome, go in with the mindset that you are the mother fucking shit and the girl is trying to impress you not you impress her. You are a man. You do not care whether or not she rejects you. Just like a bad boy because win or lose there are more women put there and you are not going to waste time on half ass quality women. If she is not submissive, fuck her and move on. We want women to add to our life four enjoyment. Not for competition and contest for the balance of power. We are the shit and age is just dog shit. As they said in the 40 yr old virgin gotta stop putting the pussy up on a pedestal. \*Win or lose you will be fine without that girl. Treat the girl like a buddy. Give her shit and ask her about her self. Oh Btw what part of approach you guys wanna know more about? Ok now we will move onto what I call \*sacking up. _Before you approach the girl you have to take your self seriously and know what you have to offer._ If you are timid, shy and afraid why should the girl take you seriously? She wants a man who will step up and take control. Not some shy timid fake ass kid. _So before you are good to approach women, you need to be good with yourself._ When you look in the mirror you need to be like damn I look good or who’s that attractive man? Oh shit that’s right that is me!!! If you do not think like that you need to work on your inner game my brother. Make sure you are confident. lines and pick up lines do not work on women or atleast quality women. ---
**Author:** ![socialnexus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@socialnexus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/socialnexus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/9 "2011-03-16T00:51:59Z")
Jabez, what you’re doing here by contributing to everyone is seriously amazing. I couldn’t agree more that you have to be good to yourself. Comes down to the three levels of confidence: Surface Level: looks/style, body language, gestures, voice tone, (all things you can fake) Lifestyle Level: getting confidence from everything you’re good at/have in your life - e.g. finances, friendships, hobbies, sports, interests. Core Level: This is when you truly love yourself. When you can look in the mirror and know that you are your own best friend. You are the shit. Say it out loud in front of a mirror if you have to. Thing is, you can lose surface level and lifestyle levels of confidence and your confidence gets taken away from you. You can lose your money and your good looks. But, if you have core confidence, you become unstoppable even when you lose everything. Rant over. Now, what I’d like to know about the approach. I no longer have so much of a problem approaching women. However, rather than the usual, confident “hey” i go with (and then can’t move onto what to say after sometimes), I’d love it if you could share some of your best openers. The ones which are killer in the club. My daygame rocks, my nightgame is just me going out, dancing with my friends and having a good time but not knowing the skills of approaching the women i’m attracted to in the right way. So yeah, what are some of your best openers and how do you transition from them into talking. BTW, i’ve read every seduction/pickup book out there so I know of tons of openers, but I’m really curious in what works for you personally, as that will give me some starters into opening in a non-creepy way. Thanks man! ---
**Author:** ![Jabez](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jabez/32/2193_2.png) [@Jabez](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jabez)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2011, 3:46am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/10 "2011-03-16T03:46:35Z")
I really don’t have an opener. I just tell shit how it is and and catch a girl looking at me I smile walk up and ask her what her name is. Then take her to the floor after 2 or 3 songs I take out my Phone and hand it to her and she puts her number in then off to the next girl. I am dead tired will give you a more legit answer tomorrow man. ---
**Author:** ![Boudicca](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/boudicca/32/5171_2.png) [@Boudicca](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Boudicca)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 4:32am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/11 "2011-03-17T04:32:29Z")
Well, you have a female in the house now, guys. One that’s been around the block a time or two, who has degrees in 4 sciences, who really is a rocket scientist. Who’s been a police officer and a teacher. Who has been happily married to the same great, gentle, talented man since college. 🙂 And Jabez, let me gently recommend you do a little growing up before advising other men about women. And please don’t go telling other men what women want when you aren’t a woman and you don’t know what’s really going on in our heads. I personally don’t know of any woman that wants a man to “step up and take control.” 🙄 Girls, maybe. Not women. Women want respect. We want to be cared about. We do NOT want to be only a number in your iPhone, or a notch on your bedpost. Dear Lord have mercy, any man that did that to me would get his iPhone stomped and his face slapped. Does that really work for you? How old are these chicks? 😮 Confidence is good, yes. But a little uncertainty isn’t going to make us throw the guy out. Sometimes it can be endearing. Forget having a “line” or a “come-on” or “approach.” Just be yourself. 😉 We’re not looking for Adonis - we want a real man, as in based in reality, not as in macho - and if sometimes we get to take care of HIM, that’s cool too. We want to be needed, we want to be loved, we want respect and caring and to be perceived as unique and intelligent. We want to be EQUALS. IMHO, what you describe that you’re after isn’t a woman, it’s female genitals on legs. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![RADMAN513](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/radman513/32/364_2.png) [@RADMAN513](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RADMAN513)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/12 "2011-03-17T13:13:13Z")
Yes we have a female in the house, now respectfully I do have to tell you that most the guys not just here but in general have learned through actual experience that if you want to be successful with women it’s far better to take advice from a man that’s successful with women than it is from a woman. You see, your advice is actually pretty common and in all likelihood stuff most men have been told often enough before that it could be on an endless loop recording. We want a nice guy, a guy that treats us right, a guy with a great sense of humor etc etc etc. The only problem is that following that advice will get you an enormous circle of female friends that sleep with other guys but love hanging out and talking with you. Affection and attraction are not the same thing. Now by no means do I ever advise men to act like an ass, however there is such a thing as being too nice, it effectively raises a woman of a pedestal and creates a dynamic where her value is higher than the males. Women are rarely interested in a male who’s value is lower than hers. And if you doubt that then by all means explain why statistically even highly educated women with incomes high enough that they can support themselves and a family on their income alone tend to marry men who’s income is at least equal if not greater than their own. “Just be yourself”…with apologies is about the worst advice that can be given to a man that wants to gain some success with women. The advice serves the giver in as much as it allows them to maintain the self deception that they as a collective gender are so enlightened, complex and savvy that anything else would be a futile waste of time, that conscious and strategic methods are not as spontaneous enough to satisfy the romance novel fantasies built up in their heads. However it’s very poor advice for the male “Just be yourself”?, who have they likely been up until that advice was given? They’ve been being themselves, their “self” unfortunately usually tends to be shy, awkward and intimidated…in short, unattractive. The advice being given is not based of of what women SAY they want, but rather what they actually respond to. I’m fairly certain that almost every guy here has known women that they were “just friends” with, that would constantly bemoan their inability to find a guy that treats them like a princess all the while sleeping with one arrogant prick after another. And the guy usually sits and listens banging his head against a brick wall because the girl can’t see that HE wants to be that doormat, HE wants to be the puppy dog that follows her around. HE needs to realize he already is. Now as I said, I don’t advise guys to be abusive mentally or physically but a bit of cockiness and other traits actually goes a long way toward building attraction. Women don’t WANT to be a notch on the bedpost, yet studies have shown that women respond favorably to the smell of copulins on men. IE a man that smells like he just had sex tends to have an easier time sparking attraction with a woman. I personally have a much easier time sparking attraction when meeting women if I’m accompanied with another attractive woman. The social proof/pre selection theory holds a lot of weight. The fact is women tend to be attracted to men that can be considered a “proven commodity”, however it needs to be unspoken. In short a woman will respond subconsciously to the smell of copulins on a man, and she won’t consciously think “he’s with a hot girl, he must be good in bed so I’m gonna try and steal him for myself” but she will simply find him more attractive without knowing why…but if a guy brags about the women he’s slept/is sleeping with it becomes conscious and overt and defenses go up and the attraction is ruined. Now where I do agree with you is on security and wanting to be needed. When I’ve been readily available at the drop of a hat, attraction…if there was any, waned very quickly. However when I busied myself with goals outside of women, I got more attention from women. I stopped treating them like they would be the center of my universe and they loved me for it. This creates a sense of security, they know that I have my own goals and ambitions and nothing will sway me from them. Likewise when I include them in helping me with my goals, they loved it. To the degree that I’ve had women offer to support me so I could quit my job and go back to school. The fact is the advice given here is sometimes going to be a little hard for some women to accept. I’ve met hundreds of women that point out “not all women are like that”. In fact, most women I meet will tell me that they’re different. Going by what they SAY, I’ve never actually met a woman that likes cocky jerks. Going by what they SAY, that type of woman doesn’t exist. Yet a large enough majority of them respond to a more cocky confident approach that if I were to believe any one individual, then she would be the exception…not the rule. And you really can’t give generalized advice based on exceptions. Now the Mystery Method and it’s offshoots (Style Life/Love Systems etc) advises men on how to convince the woman that you’re a certain type of man. Through what to say, how to act and in what order to go through the various stages. It started with Mystery and you may hate the notion but the fact is it worked. It worked consistently enough that it sells like crazy and other guys try to cash in with knockoff products. Mystery and the others have what they call “attraction switches” basic elements of a masculine personality that triggers an emotional response of attraction in women. The system I’m working on personally is about making personal and lifestyle changes that make those personality traits natural and authentic…BE the game instead of playing it. To become the guy the other systems teach you to convince her you are. Now if I were to describe this type of man to a group of women, I have little doubt that most would say they would not be attracted to a guy like that and that they are too mature, deep, educated etc to fall for a guy so arrogant or self centered. I also have little doubt that if instead of describing the type of man, I approached them AS that type of man I could get phone numbers, dates and sex with between 80-90% of those same women. Hell on occasion I’ve used the “anti-game gambit” where I followed the Mystery Method model on a woman almost to the letter, however using the actual subject of pickup theory as an opener and parts of the conversation stages…using the very techniques that both myself and the girl are saying are contrived, silly and shallow and the woman is becoming more attracted to me the entire time. What a person wants to believe about themselves and what they actually respond to are rarely the same thing, this is true of both genders. ---
**Author:** ![Boudicca](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/boudicca/32/5171_2.png) [@Boudicca](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Boudicca)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/13 "2011-03-17T18:39:52Z")
No, the difference is in the preprogrammed “sex” mechanism and what they mentally really want. Remember, mones only add to what’s there by accessing that preprogramming. How many times have we heard the cliche, “She keeps wanting to change me?” Do you know why? Usually because you/he/she pretended to be somebody they weren’t during the courtship, and eventually it comes through in the long term. What you’re talking about is ACTING - and my husband was a theatre major and we both know how to act. And trust me, you can’t keep it up indefinitely. Not to mention, a 20 year old (not even of legal age in my state) really has the same goals in this respect as you, a 38 year old, mature male, has? Think about what I’m saying here. Let me put it like this. If all you want is to get laid, go right ahead on this thread’s same track. You’ll get it - and some VDs and other things besides, possibly. If you want something that’s a little less fleeting, a little more lasting, you’ll pay attention to what I’m saying. It may take longer, but believe me, it’ll be worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Kelsey](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/kelsey/32/8468_2.png) [@Kelsey](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Kelsey)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/14 "2011-03-18T14:48:29Z")
When I first saw this thread to me it was interesting for a few reasons. The options are pretty slim and vague but discussion can definitely make up for that. Being the snoop I am , I figured it would be great to see the thoughts, opinions, fears and concerns of men where women are concerned. Of course, see the thoughts of the women and of course get some advice or a link to send the new male members too to up their game. It’s a shame it has come to an abrupt end. Or has it? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![RADMAN513](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/radman513/32/364_2.png) [@RADMAN513](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RADMAN513)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/15 "2011-03-18T14:58:46Z")
Are you being an instigating lil vixen? ---
**Author:** ![Kelsey](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/kelsey/32/8468_2.png) [@Kelsey](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Kelsey)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/16 "2011-03-18T15:04:37Z")
> [@RADMAN513](#): > > Are you being an instigating lil vixen? That is what I love about men and I got to give it you male species you are perceptive. 😉 Of course, there are exceptions but very few of them are on this forum so it’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![Jabez](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jabez/32/2193_2.png) [@Jabez](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jabez)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/17 "2011-03-18T21:48:32Z")
Woah thread Blew up while I was away. But the point of this thread was to helP guys get better at approaching and bring quality women into their lfe whether they want it for the sole purpose of getting a girl friend or they want to be a Don Juan, Player or a regular old ladies man. I am merely giving the advice of how to do it. And ik women want respect and what not. But they don’t respond to that until they get older. They dont ummm have relations with guys who put them up on a pedestall ---
**Author:** ![TwistedOstrich](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/twistedostrich/32/627_2.png) [@TwistedOstrich](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/TwistedOstrich)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 6:03am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/18 "2011-03-19T06:03:54Z")
> [@Boudicca](#): > > Well, you have a female in the house now, guys. One that’s been around the block a time or two, who has degrees in 4 sciences, who really is a rocket scientist. Who’s been a police officer and a teacher. Who has been happily married to the same great, gentle, talented man since college. 🙂 Its hard to find quality women like yourself these days, I’m sure the ladies say the same for the men. For the most part the young women in this area are scattered and flaky. There more likely to list off DUIs and abortions/babies rather then accomplishments. So yes, in a club you can get away with macho shit as someone who isn’t very accomplished , needs to be protected, or needs guidance in life would like that. Now if your seriously setting up dates or have more aspirations then getting laid, you really need to be sure of yourself then let your heart talk. Happiness comes from within, and if you have it then it radiates from you. Women can actually pursue you! Thats been the underlying theme of most the posts. Also If they are stuffy and shoot you down, there letting you know they aren’t ready. ---
**Author:** ![Boudicca](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/boudicca/32/5171_2.png) [@Boudicca](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Boudicca)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 7:47am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/19 "2011-03-19T07:47:48Z")
> [@](#): > > But the point of this thread was to helP guys get better at approaching and bring quality women into their lfe whether they want it for the sole purpose of getting a girl friend or they want to be a Don Juan, Player or a regular old ladies man. But Jabez, you’re kinda making my point for me. The kinds of women who respond to those are DIFFERENT, just like the men are different. A woman who goes for a playa is different from one looking for a LTR. She’s looking for different things. Now, according to your own descriptions of your technique, you’re a playa by definition. So after watching your technique for a couple iterations, if you approached me, I’d turn around and walk out. If you approached me before I’d had the chance to watch you, then handed me your iPhone, I really would just drop it on the floor and step on it (preferably heel first) as I walked away. That would be offensive to me - and counterproductive to you. I don’t care how many mones you doused yourself with. > [@](#): > > So yes, in a club you can get away with macho shit as someone who isn’t very accomplished , needs to be protected, or needs guidance in life would like that. This is the type of woman that Jabez’ technique is going to attract. And for him, that’s fine. He’s young, he needs a young woman. Young women are going to be insecure at some level, because they don’t have the life experience to buoy them that a mature woman would have. But a young man advising an older man/men isn’t going to work, because in all likelihood they (men OR women) are not looking for the same thing. (Note that, while it isn’t that unusual to see a relationship in which the man is significantly older than the woman, it IS a bit unusual to see the reverse. And note that the woman in that sort of relationship is known as a “cougar.” And not uncommonly, the younger male is called her “boy toy.” There’s a REASON for that. Think about the symbology.) And you’re also risking getting a not-so-quality woman using that technique, too. Especially the older you and she are. > [@](#): > > Now if your seriously setting up dates or have more aspirations then getting laid, you really need to be sure of yourself then let your heart talk. Happiness comes from within, and if you have it then it radiates from you. Twisted, this is a very nice expression of exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you. Radman, I don’t know this “Mystery Method,” but I can tell you this: if all it is about is putting on a facade, sooner or later like the facade on a building in an earthquake, it’s all going to tumble down and reveal the true structure underneath. It needs to come from within; otherwise it’s fake. If you have personal issues that you’re covering up to get a girl, then you need to work on those issues until you feel better about yourself, THEN go after the girl. That’s my $0.02 on the situation, and I’ve been around the block once or twice. ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2011, 10:43am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/20 "2011-03-19T10:43:48Z")
> [@Rad](#): > > Yes we have a female in the house, now respectfully I do have to tell you that most the guys not just here but in general have learned through actual experience that if you want to be successful with women it’s far better to take advice from a man that’s successful with women than it is from a woman. I dont totally agree with that. I think for a man or a women to get a well rounded and balanced understanding of attraction and what the opposite sex needs and wants they benefit from advice and the observations of both sexes. > [@Boudicca](#): > > We’re not looking for Adonis - we want a real man, as in based in reality, not as in macho - and if sometimes we get to take care of HIM, that’s cool too. We want to be needed, we want to be loved, we want respect and caring and to be perceived as unique and intelligent. **We want to be EQUALS.** Those are basic human needs and wants and not something that pursuant of just one gender. Everyone wants to be loved, needed, cared for and respected. Its the equal part that causes a problem for me LOL As far as equals rights under the law yes I am all for that but we are talking about relationships and equality which is a totally different beast. **…** I know this is not the popular belief and most feminists go nuts when they talk to me but I think the problem of divorce and unstable relationships are a direct result of women preaching “we want to be equals” and trying to live under that illusion. Now dont get me wrong. I want and expect a equal amount of care, loyalty and respect etc etc from my relationship thats not what I am referring to. Those are traits carried by a person that have nothing to do with gender. The truth of the matter is you can never be equal to a man nor can a man be equal to a women. An apple can not be equal to a orange they are different. Men and Women are different. They both have there strengths and weaknesses. I think women have spent so much time since the feminist movement screaming “equality” and trying to fit a round peg in a square hole to live up to it that they have they have turned there backs on there own strengths and ultimately on what makes them unique and intelligent. In human socialization and pair bonding each gender has a separate and distinct place in the hierarchy. Its a instinctual part of us. It ensures our survival as a race. Because of feminism men have lost there perspective on what it means to be a male. They are confused and hell you cant blame them for being so. I like being a women and frankly no, I dont want to be equal to a man simply because to do so I would weaken those very strengths that make me a women. > [@RAD](#): > > “Just be yourself”…with apologies is about the worst advice that can be given to a man that wants to gain some success with women. The advice serves the giver in as much as it allows them to maintain the self deception that they as a collective gender are so enlightened, complex and savvy that anything else would be a futile waste of time, that conscious and strategic methods are not as spontaneous enough to satisfy the romance novel fantasies built up in their heads. However it’s very poor advice for the male “Just be yourself”?, who have they likely been up until that advice was given? They’ve been being themselves, their “self” unfortunately usually tends to be shy, awkward and intimidated…in short, unattractive. I wouldn’t call it the worst advice but I just think if thats all the advice someone is telling you then its a poor delivery of that advice. I am guilty of taking the easy way out and saying it on occasion myself LOL. Its like telling someone “just be more talkative” or “just be more confident” Telling someone to just do something is not teaching. Telling them how to do something is teaching. I think a better way to convey it if your not going to explain what it means is to say “dont be something your not” and I mean that literally. Dont lie about who you are. However… when it comes to character traits. All humans carry every trait. Inside each one of us is a shy, outgoing, intimidated, assertive, awkward, comfortable, attractive, unattractive individual. Its the law of polarity there can not be one without the other. The key is to realize and accept that you carry them all. I think the PUA community and the advice men are giving here and in other venues helps those who are more on the side of shy intimidated and awkward to bring those opposite traits forward so they are more balanced therefore more successful. I dont see it as being something your not, it cant be because like I mentioned we have all those traits within us. Men are trying to help each other be the best men they can be. Women used to gather to do the same although since feminism instead of helping each other become the best women they can be they focus more on being something they are not…The best man she can be. That is is being something your not. > [@Boudicca](#): > > How many times have we heard the cliche, “She keeps wanting to change me?” Do you know why? Usually because you/he/she pretended to be somebody they weren’t during the courtship, and eventually it comes through in the long term. What you’re talking about is ACTING - and my husband was a theatre major and we both know how to act. And trust me, you can’t keep it up indefinitely. I am not saying there are not people who pretend to be something they are not in relationships but women do it just as much as men do. I think emotions sometimes cloud whats real in the beginning of relationships. Most cases are not someone being something they are not because that can only be maintained for a while before someones dominant nature comes forward. Its us not seeing and accepting those traits. I find when a women tries to change a man its because she was wearing blinders to his dominating character traits to begin with. Its not done out of ignorance or manipulation but because women are emotion driven. When you feel love for someone you over look those traits we dont care for or we sometimes see things that are not there. I have had countless friends who try to change their husbands. For instance one friends husband is not romantic at all. She tries to make him more so but its just not a dominate trait for him. He could be if he wanted and to make her happy he makes a effort but its not one of his dominate traits. When we were on our weekly women’s night out she mentioned he was romantic when we first met. All of us at the table happened to know them both when they first met and I know its never been a dominant trait in him, so I asked her…How so ? She couldnt come up with one romantic thing he did when they first met and she suddenly realized that she was seeing him as she wanted him to be not as he truly was. Another friends husband has a temper. She insists he was never temperamental in the beginning. We all had all seen him be temperamental before she married him. She loved him so she didnt see it. I think it would serve both men and women well to step out of there emotion for a few minutes in there relationships and try to see each other with clarity because you cant change a person who is not willing or ready for change. Love to delve into this subject more but need to get ready for work. Great convo though and I enjoy everyone’s input. Tisha [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992.md?page=2)