# Help to the Masses **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [March 12, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992 "2011-03-12T16:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RADMAN513](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/radman513/32/364_2.png) [@RADMAN513](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RADMAN513)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/61 "2011-03-25T02:38:16Z")
Have you ever seen School for Scoundrels? Every time I hear the advice “be yourself” I think to the scene when Billu Bob Thorton asks his pupils if any of them have ever used a self help book and when they all raise their hands he says something to the effect of “well there’s your problem, you can’t help yourself because your self sucks”. The point of that little tangent was, well first off when people of either gender are young they’re usually still trying to “find themselves” or discover who they are. They don’t know what their “self” is yet. And telling a shy guy that stands in the corner holding his drink watching the party happen around him, to just be himself, is basically telling him to stand in the corner, hold his drink and watch the party happen around him…because that IS himself at this stage of his growth. Now I know the intent behind it, better advice would be to “be authentic”. Better still would be to EVOLVE yourself. Focus on developing attractive qualities in terms of personality and character and most game will become natural. I don’t think it’s like the bootcamps that RSD does which from what I can see is little more than a few pointers on how to act, a great pep talk and then tossed out into the field to try and pickup girls at a night club. Nah, I think a more well rounded path of personal growth that actually avoids focusing on women is better and it can take some time. But as you grow confident in the realization that you’re a better more well rounded person than you were before and that you have a lot to offer, then it’s like the floodgates open. ---
**Author:** ![ochrismongrelo](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/ochrismongrelo/32/318_2.png) [@ochrismongrelo](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ochrismongrelo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 4:35am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/62 "2011-04-19T04:35:53Z")
> [@tisha23](#): > > I think women have spent so much time since the feminist movement screaming “equality” and trying to fit a round peg in a square hole to live up to it that they have they have turned there backs on there own strengths and ultimately on what makes them unique and intelligent. In human socialization and pair bonding each gender has a separate and distinct place in the hierarchy. Its a instinctual part of us. It ensures our survival as a race. > > Because of feminism men have lost there perspective on what it means to be a male. They are confused and hell you cant blame them for being so. > > I think the PUA community and the advice men are giving here and in other venues helps those who are more on the side of shy intimidated and awkward to bring those opposite traits forward so they are more balanced therefore more successful. I dont see it as being something your not, it cant be because like I mentioned we have all those traits within us. > > Men are trying to help each other be the best men they can be. Women used to gather to do the same although since feminism instead of helping each other become the best women they can be they focus more on being something they are not…The best man she can be. That is is being something your not. > > Love to delve into this subject more but need to get ready for work. Great convo though and I enjoy everyone’s input. > > Tisha Thank you, Thank you, and friggin THANK YOU, TISHA! Since the last century, it’s almost like the friggin media has essentially made it seem bad for a woman to act feminine, and for a man to actually act like a man. It’s ridiculous, and people wonder why there’s a 60+% divorce rate? That’s what happens when ya go against mother nature! ---
**Author:** ![ochrismongrelo](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/ochrismongrelo/32/318_2.png) [@ochrismongrelo](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ochrismongrelo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/63 "2011-04-19T04:39:36Z")
> [@Boudicca](#): > > Forget having a “line” or a “come-on” or “approach.” Just be yourself. \*\*Telling guys to not go the route that the guys here are talking about - saying it is fake or playerish- is basically the equivalant of me saying the following: It’s phony and player-ish when a woman uses LIPSTICK, PUSH UP BRAS, PANTY HOSE, PERFUME, MAKEUP, ANYTHING LOW CUT, etc, etc… Just BE YOURSELF! 😛 \*\* ---
**Author:** ![ochrismongrelo](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/ochrismongrelo/32/318_2.png) [@ochrismongrelo](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ochrismongrelo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/64 "2011-04-19T04:43:26Z")
> [@Boudicca](#): > > But Jabez, you’re kinda making my point for me. The kinds of women who respond to those are DIFFERENT, just like the men are different. A woman who goes for a playa is different from one looking for a LTR. She’s looking for different things. Now, according to your own descriptions of your technique, you’re a playa by definition. So after watching your technique for a couple iterations, if you approached me, I’d turn around and walk out. If you approached me before I’d had the chance to watch you, then handed me your iPhone, I really would just drop it on the floor and step on it (preferably heel first) as I walked away. That would be offensive to me - and counterproductive to you. I don’t care how many mones you doused yourself with. > > This is the type of woman that Jabez’ technique is going to attract. And for him, that’s fine. He’s young, he needs a young woman. Young women are going to be insecure at some level, because they don’t have the life experience to buoy them that a mature woman would have. But a young man advising an older man/men isn’t going to work, because in all likelihood they (men OR women) are not looking for the same thing. (Note that, while it isn’t that unusual to see a relationship in which the man is significantly older than the woman, it IS a bit unusual to see the reverse. And note that the woman in that sort of relationship is known as a “cougar.” And not uncommonly, the younger male is called her “boy toy.” There’s a REASON for that. Think about the symbology.) > > And you’re also risking getting a not-so-quality woman using that technique, too. Especially the older you and she are. > > Twisted, this is a very nice expression of exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you. > > Radman, I don’t know this “Mystery Method,” but I can tell you this: if all it is about is putting on a facade, sooner or later like the facade on a building in an earthquake, it’s all going to tumble down and reveal the true structure underneath. It needs to come from within; otherwise it’s fake. If you have personal issues that you’re covering up to get a girl, then you need to work on those issues until you feel better about yourself, THEN go after the girl. > > That’s my $0.02 on the situation, and I’ve been around the block once or twice. All that makeup, eyeliner, nail painting, manicures, push up bras, low cut dresses, boob jobs, perfume, etc etc would be OFFENSIVE TO ME! , It’s a facade and needs to come from within! …now I basically said the equivalant of what you said, with the gender role reversed. How ridiculous does that sound? Basically you’re telling guys not to act like men and to deny our nature. ---
**Author:** ![Boudicca](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/boudicca/32/5171_2.png) [@Boudicca](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Boudicca)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 5:18am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/65 "2011-04-19T05:18:23Z")
OK this is my last post on this thread. It’s starting to degenerate into attack mode. I’m a happily married woman, to the same man, for a couple decades. I dated a number of guys before I found him. Some were nice, some were jerks. I know what I like, I know what my man likes, I know what other men like. What I find rather “out there” is the concept of a young man purporting to tell men TWICE HIS AGE how to behave around women. Not only can he not possibly have the experience to tell them, the women they’re around are more mature than the women he’s around, and his advice may very well backfire. Are you saying that I’m the same as a woman half my age? That I behave the same, like the same things, find the same things attractive? I think not. (Take a look at “sparkly vampires” for a case in point. There’s a reason they’re called “teenyboppers” and “fangirls.”) To me the concept of a couple of gestures to indicate, “Wanna dance?” followed by a dance and being handed the guy’s iPhone without a word so I can put my phone number in it for his convenience is ludicrous. If I’d been sitting there long enough to see a couple of iterations of this, the instant he approached me I’d be walking away. If I hadn’t seen what was going on, I would, as aforementioned, do something to the cell - how damaging depending on my mood and how he’d treated me during the dance. If he can’t take the time to sit down and have a conversation with me, find out a little about who I am and let me know something about himself, he hasn’t earned - that’s right, I said earned - the right to KNOW my phone number. Let alone anything else. Note that what I’m proposing is a two-way street. I have to get to know him, he has to get to know me. I NEVER SAID not to be the best man/woman you can be. I never said not to try to look good. I never said for a man not to act like a man. So people, stop putting words in my mouth. I DID SAY not to fake your PERSONALITY when approaching women. If all you want is one night stands, that’ll work, because it only has to work for awhile. But if you are EVER interested in SOMETHING MORE PERMANENT, you cannot fake the essentials of who you are and expect a relationship to last. And per above, I have the experience to back it up. As to who approaches whom first, y’all need to make up your minds - guy asks gal, or vice versa? This thread is all over the map on that one. But FWIW, while I’m old-fashioned, I’m perfectly willing to make the first approach (although these days the sexual approach occurs only with my spouse). That’s a touch of where getting to know each other comes into play. Do I practice what I preach? Ok. Let’s get a bit real here. 1. I rarely wear makeup - usually only if there’s a potential photo-op so I don’t look washed out in the cameras. (I’m a professional writer.) 2. eyeliner is makeup - see #1. 3. my nails are usually completely bare and very short because I make my living typing at a computer and I go through keyboards like tissue paper as is - I don’t need the dragon lady nails halving the keyboard lifetime. 4. manicures include painting the nails. The parts of a manicure that don’t color the nails involve maintaining healthy nails and cuticles. I do that myself. 5. I don’t wear pushup bras. I DO wear supportive ones for the health of “the girls.” (Boxers or briefs?) 6. I wear a dress or top that looks nice but doesn’t show everything I’ve got. Ditto trousers and jeans. 7. I’ve never had plastic surgery of any kind. I may have some in the future in order to remove excess skin and flesh after the giant cyst was removed from my gut last summer. It will make me healthier and make it easier to get off-the-rack clothing that fits well and comfortably - assuming that busting my butt in the gym doesn’t do the trick first. 8. we’re on a discussion board about pheromones and fragrances so that’s a bit hypocritical. 'Nuff said. And I’m unsubbing from the thread. ---
**Author:** ![ochrismongrelo](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/ochrismongrelo/32/318_2.png) [@ochrismongrelo](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ochrismongrelo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 5:30am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/66 "2011-04-19T05:30:38Z")
> [@famous4nothing](#): > > guys it’s 2 AM and I apologise for my dumbassery, but whats kino? Essentially, kino-ing has been observed and broken down by the seduction community for conscious understanding…it’s when you’re on a date or what not, and you and your partner start making physical contact with each other, and escalate that into intimate contact. It’s the art of natural physical escalation which is normally subconsious but made into a conscious effort. ---
**Author:** ![ochrismongrelo](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/ochrismongrelo/32/318_2.png) [@ochrismongrelo](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ochrismongrelo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 5:33am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/67 "2011-04-19T05:33:23Z")
> [@Txfox76](#): > > no really spelling and grammar. > I don’t believe we’ve met? how on earth could YOU possibly know what I want in a man? > Age and maturity are big issues, and you’ve proven as much saying women don’t want men who listen. You’re priceless. > > The lament of a “nice guy” is crap and here is why: > [Heartless Bitches International - Why “Nice Guys” are often such LOSERS](http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml) Do you realize that your link actually agreed with and confirmed exactly what he was trying to tell you, and that you disagreed with? ---
**Author:** ![ochrismongrelo](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/ochrismongrelo/32/318_2.png) [@ochrismongrelo](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ochrismongrelo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/68 "2011-04-19T05:57:17Z")
> [@tisha23](#): > > I think a lot of people misunderstand when a guy says dont be the “Nice Guy” They take it literal. No one is saying dont be nice to people. What they are saying is dont be the proverbial nice guy. The push over, the no back bone guy, the yes man. We have all met them, in my work there are three. They are really nice people, considerate, kind, trustworthy except they have no spine. They wont stand up for themselves or there beliefs in any way. They cave to those around them male or female. Their wives call them 10 times of day and you hear them saying “yes dear, yes dear, I will do it right away dear” Its sad cause these guys are visually attractive and good people but that lack of backbone just turns you right off. > > Tisha Once again, we’re in total agreement. One thing to add though, A lot of ‘nice guys’ see things in black and white and don’t realize that there’s a happy medium, they wonder why they get friend zoned and the ‘jerks’ get the women. The thing is, most of the time, what they are thinking of as ‘jerks’ are just guys who are very alpha, don’t put the women on an altar of worship, and respect their gal but won’t take a bunch of silly crap. The true Alpha Male doesn’t have to force a woman to be interested in him by being a ‘jerk’ or controlling, women WANT to be around him and be chosen by him. (See a314) 😉 and this is what the ‘community’ mostly tries to help guys out with in refining their personality and lifestyle choices. What the ‘nice guys’ aka AFC’s don’t get is that they supplicate to the woman (needy, clingy, worshipping the girl, getting friend zoned like they were her girlfriend,) and either they stay in the friend zone, OR they themselves go all ballistic because their affection isn’t returned, turning into the real jerk, without realizing it. ---
**Author:** ![RADMAN513](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/radman513/32/364_2.png) [@RADMAN513](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RADMAN513)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 6:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/69 "2011-04-19T06:24:30Z")
> [@Boudicca](#): > > OK this is my last post on this thread. It’s starting to degenerate into attack mode. Unfortunate, I was rather enjoying some of the exchange, although to be fair while you do have to admit that some of your own posts toward Jabez could be construed as a little condescending and thus passive/aggressive on their own way. I’m not implying that this was your intent but that in my opinion, if you read back over some of them you might see how they could come across that way. Disagreement is fine, this is an open forum and thus discussion and discourse will from time to time bring differences of opinion. The trick is to try and focus a retort against the argument and not the person making it. It’s all to easy for a person to be made to feel as if they have to defend themselves rather than their position. > [@](#): > > I’m a happily married woman, to the same man, for a couple decades. I dated a number of guys before I found him. Some were nice, some were jerks. I know what I like, I know what my man likes, I know what other men like. SOME other men, just as you stated in earlier posts, “pick up lines/routines etc” may work on a certain kind of girl, but not more mature or intelligent women (I disagree from personal experience but I may get to specifics later) no woman can lay claim to having all the answers when it comes to attracting men or keeping men happy…A particular man?, yes…men in general? nah, that’s to…well generalized. > [@](#): > > What I find rather “out there” is the concept of a young man purporting to tell men TWICE HIS AGE how to behave around women. Not only can he not possibly have the experience to tell them, the women they’re around are more mature than the women he’s around, and his advice may very well backfire. You may be surprised. The 40 year old virgin is not just a comedy movie. A lot of guys are late bloomers. While I was no virgin, my teens and 20’s were very hit and miss as they are with most guys. The times I managed to get laid, or get a girlfriend were as much luck and law of averages (I made a LOT of attempts) as anything else. Having been studying pickup and studying/applying the theory I’ve learned a lot and had a very enjoyable time over the past 4 years. Now I’m approaching 40, but Jabez has advantages now that I didn’t. First, the abundance of information regarding theory and technique from the myriad of PUA guru’s out there, and an information medium that makes their knowledge accessible with a mouse click. Most of my knowledge and experience was built over the last three or four years, so I really don’t count my age as a factor regarding any wisdom. Some guy at 21 can read and study all the books and audio/video lessons, maybe attend a couple of seminars and bootcamps inside a year or so and spend a couple of years applying and testing the various theories and by 24 know more about attracting women, seducing them, dating them and building a relationship with one than men twice his age. Now I believe Jabez is actually younger than that, I only use the age of 21 for examples sake due to drinking laws in certain states and access to the club/singles scene. But even at the HS level the concepts can apply. The bottom line is that regardless of his age, Jabez advice is pretty close to the advice I would give. Now whether he’s just repeating what he read someplace else or from actual experience I don’t know, but I remember HS and college and I knew guys that pissed me off because they just seemed to have a magic power when it came to women. So I won’t dismiss somebodies opinion on meeting women simply because of their age. He shared his advice with somebody and you replied as a third party dismissing his advice because of his age…which is a little “attack mode” as you put it. > [@](#): > > Are you saying that I’m the same as a woman half my age? That I behave the same, like the same things, find the same things attractive? I think not. (Take a look at “sparkly vampires” for a case in point. There’s a reason they’re called “teenyboppers” and “fangirls.”) Here is where there are differences between concepts/theory and actual application. When I see a woman I’m interested in, I know there are certain qualities about me that I want to communicate (obviously in a way that doesn’t sound like bragging) in order to attract her. The qualities are very generic and the same whether the woman is 21 or 35. Now HOW I communicate those qualities and it what context I place them will vary. Likewise how I present those qualities to a Latin woman into hip hop, lowriders and a gangsta look, would be different than how I would present them to a financially affluent woman with a Prada fetish. > [@](#): > > To me the concept of a couple of gestures to indicate, “Wanna dance?” followed by a dance and being handed the guy’s iPhone without a word so I can put my phone number in it for his convenience is ludicrous. If I’d been sitting there long enough to see a couple of iterations of this, the instant he approached me I’d be walking away. If I hadn’t seen what was going on, I would, as aforementioned, do something to the cell - how damaging depending on my mood and how he’d treated me during the dance. > > If he can’t take the time to sit down and have a conversation with me, find out a little about who I am and let me know something about himself, he hasn’t earned - that’s right, I said earned - the right to KNOW my phone number. Let alone anything else. While there are some schools of thought that advocate that type of approach it’s far from the only school of though. The Mystery Method I mentioned earlier places a great emphasis on what’s called the comfort phase. Mystery even states that the game is played in comfort and trying to get to seduction too soon will either turn the girl off by throwing out a player vibe, or you may get laid but she’ll have buyers remorse (“How could I sleep with a guy so soon, I’m such a slut” type of thinking) The comfort phase is where the guy can relax a little and the two engage in actual conversation presenting themselves to each other as real people. Of course this has to follow an attraction phase…ie I have to get you interested enough in me to bother with a sit and get to know eachother phase before I try for that. > [@](#): > > Note that what I’m proposing is a two-way street. I have to get to know him, he has to get to know me. > > I NEVER SAID not to be the best man/woman you can be. I never said not to try to look good. I never said for a man not to act like a man. > > So people, stop putting words in my mouth. > > I DID SAY not to fake your PERSONALITY when approaching women. If all you want is one night stands, that’ll work, because it only has to work for awhile. But if you are EVER interested in SOMETHING MORE PERMANENT, you cannot fake the essentials of who you are and expect a relationship to last. > > And per above, I have the experience to back it up. > > As to who approaches whom first, y’all need to make up your minds - guy asks gal, or vice versa? This thread is all over the map on that one. But FWIW, while I’m old-fashioned, I’m perfectly willing to make the first approach (although these days the sexual approach occurs only with my spouse). That’s a touch of where getting to know each other comes into play. > > Do I practice what I preach? Ok. Let’s get a bit real here. > > 1. I rarely wear makeup - usually only if there’s a potential photo-op so I don’t look washed out in the cameras. (I’m a professional writer.) > 2. eyeliner is makeup - see #1. > 3. my nails are usually completely bare and very short because I make my living typing at a computer and I go through keyboards like tissue paper as is - I don’t need the dragon lady nails halving the keyboard lifetime. > 4. manicures include painting the nails. The parts of a manicure that don’t color the nails involve maintaining healthy nails and cuticles. I do that myself. > 5. I don’t wear pushup bras. I DO wear supportive ones for the health of “the girls.” (Boxers or briefs?) > 6. I wear a dress or top that looks nice but doesn’t show everything I’ve got. Ditto trousers and jeans. > 7. I’ve never had plastic surgery of any kind. I may have some in the future in order to remove excess skin and flesh after the giant cyst was removed from my gut last summer. It will make me healthier and make it easier to get off-the-rack clothing that fits well and comfortably - assuming that busting my butt in the gym doesn’t do the trick first. > 8. we’re on a discussion board about pheromones and fragrances so that’s a bit hypocritical. > > 'Nuff said. And I’m unsubbing from the thread. LOL agree on the point about pheromones. I do want to make one minor point though, it’s something I see with some frequency. When an argument (by that I mean a debate point, not a yelling match) is made people paint with broad strokes…generalizations, stereotypes, statistics, averages etc. which is fine. However when a counter argument is made along the same lines, the defense becomes specific. What I mean is that YOU don’t have to wear a pushup bra to convince men that your bustline is however large or perky you want them to think…WOMEN in general however do, lingerie sales statistics might be hard to find but if it’s required for my point simply say so and I’ll put in the time. You see we’re debating about men (generalized) using generalized strategies, tactics, routines, lines etc. to meet and attract women (generalized) Somebody brings up the point that women (in general) use makeup to alter their complexion, heels to create the illusion of a certain height/weight ratio, bra’s etc etc all for the purpose of attracting men (in general)…yet your counter argument is based not upon women in general, but upon yourself as what would be described as the exception…not the rule. Now, I know I’m a right windy bastard and for that I apologize. I don’t like to see people leaving threads in a huff or feeling attacked personally. For that reason I do request that none of the guys “thank” this post as I feel it would simply create a more divisive mood in an already sensitive thread. I think the thread has potential for an exchange of idea’s and insight if we’re open to listen so I hope you and everyone continues to post to it in good humor. I do ask that you consider that while you are A woman, you are no more indicative of ALL women than Jabez is indicative of ALL males in his age group. You may very well be much more liberated and enlightened than most women, he may be much more knowledgeable than most males his age, and may know more than you give him credit for. On that note I must be off to bed, I leave you with these pearls of RAD wisdom A man with rubber pockets is likely to steal soup. Never play leap frog with a unicorn. Better to have loved and lost than to have never been to Reno at all No matter where you go, there you are. This RAD, thank you and good night. ---
**Author:** ![ochrismongrelo](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/ochrismongrelo/32/318_2.png) [@ochrismongrelo](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ochrismongrelo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 6:26am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/70 "2011-04-19T06:26:19Z")
> [@Boudicca](#): > > OK this is my last post on this thread. It’s starting to degenerate into attack mode. > > What I find rather “out there” is the concept of a young man purporting to tell men TWICE HIS AGE how to behave around women. Not only can he not possibly have the experience to tell them, the women they’re around are more mature than the women he’s around, and his advice may very well backfire. No attack intended, merely breaking through the mars/venus barrier… _grin_ I’m 34, and my personality has very similar aspects to the OP’s persona. And I’ve gotten similar results from dates/relationships/whatever using the same sort of ‘a314’ attitude that he’s talking about, from women 24-47 years old…and plenty of those have been high quality women with their act together, great esteem, looks, and amazing intellect. > [@Boudicca](#): > > Are you saying that I’m the same as a woman half my age? That I behave the same, like the same things, find the same things attractive? I think not. (Take a look at “sparkly vampires” for a case in point. There’s a reason they’re called “teenyboppers” and “fangirls.”) True, but at the base level, humans are still animals, despite all of the social influences, age, etc. Certain reactions are a part of our programming. That’s not an insult, it’s merely mother nature. What the ‘seduction community’ does is study what works between men and women to form those types of bonds, and enlightens people on those facts in a conscious manner as opposed to a subconscious one, for those folks that want to improve their lives and the reactions they get from people. And not only from dating or seeking out a high quality woman, but in the workplace, friend circles, etc. > [@Boudicca](#): > > To me the concept of a couple of gestures to indicate, “Wanna dance?” followed by a dance and being handed the guy’s iPhone without a word so I can put my phone number in it for his convenience is ludicrous. If I’d been sitting there long enough to see a couple of iterations of this, the instant he approached me I’d be walking away. If I hadn’t seen what was going on, I would, as aforementioned, do something to the cell - how damaging depending on my mood and how he’d treated me during the dance. > > If he can’t take the time to sit down and have a conversation with me, find out a little about who I am and let me know something about himself, he hasn’t earned - that’s right, I said earned - the right to KNOW my phone number. Let alone anything else. > > Note that what I’m proposing is a two-way street. I have to get to know him, he has to get to know me. Getting to know someone is part of the mixture. Yes, there are some girls who will react and just immediately throw themselves at guys, but getting to know someone IS an important part of the ‘pua’ community’s teachings. > [@Boudicca](#): > > Do I practice what I preach? Ok. Let’s get a bit real here. > > 1. I rarely wear makeup - usually only if there’s a potential photo-op so I don’t look washed out in the cameras. (I’m a professional writer.) > 2. eyeliner is makeup - see #1. > 3. my nails are usually completely bare and very short because I make my living typing at a computer and I go through keyboards like tissue paper as is - I don’t need the dragon lady nails halving the keyboard lifetime. > 4. manicures include painting the nails. The parts of a manicure that don’t color the nails involve maintaining healthy nails and cuticles. I do that myself. > 5. I don’t wear pushup bras. I DO wear supportive ones for the health of “the girls.” (Boxers or briefs?) > 6. I wear a dress or top that looks nice but doesn’t show everything I’ve got. Ditto trousers and jeans. > 7. I’ve never had plastic surgery of any kind. I may have some in the future in order to remove excess skin and flesh after the giant cyst was removed from my gut last summer. It will make me healthier and make it easier to get off-the-rack clothing that fits well and comfortably - assuming that busting my butt in the gym doesn’t do the trick first. > 8. we’re on a discussion board about pheromones and fragrances so that’s a bit hypocritical. > > 'Nuff said. And I’m unsubbing from the thread. No reason to get all defensive! You’re missing what he was saying at the start of the thread. It boils down to this, women want an equal, not a pushover. A guy who is confident enough to take charge and initiate the ‘dating dance’ or what not. A guy who is funny, sincere, and ‘keeps it real’ but at the same time isn’t going to worship a woman like he’s her girlfriend that she goes shopping with 😉 This is what the OP was saying, in a nutshell. Unless a gal is super controlling, she wants someone fun and who wants to keep her coming back for more, feeling wanted, and leaves her wanting in return. ---
**Author:** ![Jabez](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jabez/32/2193_2.png) [@Jabez](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jabez)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/71 "2011-05-10T02:54:51Z")
Rad my dad raised me for this too. Before I found mones I was still hooking up with girl, but mones just took me to a whole new level. As far as drinking laws go, same with the speed limit it just a recommendation. I mean my best friend can go fight for his country and potentially die ,but cannot enjoy a nice Beer or Hard Liquor here or there ---
**Author:** ![Astrea](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/astrea/32/1928_2.png) [@Astrea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Astrea)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/72 "2011-05-18T23:03:38Z")
> [@Jabez](#): > > Well before we jump into approaching. I want to give you a brief summary. I am 20 currently enrolled in Tech School. Changed over from going to be an electrician to being a Network Specialist. I got dealt a shitty hand, father died when I was 11 and I got ADD. Made life hard. But I \*overcame these and became good with women. > > Without further ado. The Secret to bei g good with women is to know that you already are. Everyman has the gene of the Alpha in them. From the time of our ancestors. We have survived and breeder to become the societies and the people that we are today. So the first thing we are going to cover is Approach Anxiety. That shit is a real pain in the ass and illogical. Every fear that we have is learned. When you are born you are not scares of women. When you are born you are not afraid of water somethig traumatic or bad has to happen, to cause you to be afraid of these things. Whether it is Uncle Buck tossed you into the lake Or some heartless bitch shot you down. Brothers, colleagues, friends being afraid of that hot blonde sitting across the room makes no fucking sense. That women is probably 120 lbs max and prob 5-6 to 5-10 that is not something to not be afraid of. We used to kill fucking shit that was 5-6x times bigger then us. We are men. We are made to take control, lead the women \*and tell them that everything is going to be ok. > > Overcoming approach anxiety can be a bitch. The hardest facet of it is goj g up to the girl. Forget about the outcome. Do not expect and outcome, go in with the mindset that you are the mother fucking shit and the **girl is trying to impress you not you impress her**. You are a man. You do not care whether or not she rejects you. Just like a bad boy because win or lose there are more women put there and you are not going to waste time on half ass quality women. If she is not submissive, fuck her and move on. We want women to add to our life four enjoyment. Not for competition and contest for the balance of power. We are the shit and age is just dog shit. As they said in the 40 yr old virgin gotta stop putting the pussy up on a pedestal. \*Win or lose you will be fine without that girl. > > **Treat the girl like a buddy.** Give her shit and ask her about her self. > She is not shit. She is an equal nothing more > > Oh Btw what part of approach you guys wanna know more about? Of course, remembering that all through the animal kingdom and in natural human lives (where the rules have previously been made by “men” and contradictory to nature 😃) **the female chooses her mate!** The display and dances are made by males to impress the females. Not to throw a spanner in your works, but to add to your ‘awareness arsenal’. Yes, she may want to impress you, but you guys generally ignore that girl and go for the \*\*‘hot’ one - who knows, ultimately, the choice is hers! \*\*Just pointing out the fact that women (and men, too) are NOT interchangeable. If they were, you’d be hunting the available - not dismissing them. If they are interchangeable, then you’re just looking for a ONS or a trophy. Be careful with treating a girl like a buddy. That backfires easily and you end up building your own friend box and leaving her sometimes confused / surprised (good AND bad)/ caught off balance and **not prepared to go there with YOU** , when you then hit on her. Not so much the 20 yr olds, but not a technique you want to use with someone good at the game. And THAT can be any age, especially if she’s hot, she’s had plenty of practice. The buddy thing is best left directed at your buddies. ---
**Author:** ![Jabez](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jabez/32/2193_2.png) [@Jabez](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jabez)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/73 "2011-05-19T02:23:00Z")
Just pointing out the fact that women (and men, too) are NOT interchangeable. If they were, you’d be hunting the available - not dismissing them. If they are interchangeable, then you’re just looking for a ONS or a trophy. Not If a girl is not up to my standards, I will replace her ass as I see fit. I don’t chase em I replace em ---
**Author:** ![Astrea](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/astrea/32/1928_2.png) [@Astrea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Astrea)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 5:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/74 "2011-05-19T05:24:36Z")
> [@Jabez](#): > > I really don’t have an opener. I just tell shit how it is and and catch a girl looking at me I smile walk up and ask her what her name is. Then take her to the floor after 2 or 3 songs I take out my Phone and hand it to her and she puts her number in then off to the next girl. I am dead tired will give you a more legit answer tomorrow man. Yeah, ah - no. I’m with Boudicca on this. Your dance to phone would only work on the most naive and young. A ‘quality’ woman wouldn’t play into that with her real number. How rude do you think you can be to a PERSON before someone throws that phone into a jug of beer? Unless of course these are just meat markets looking for no more than a ONS. I could see that working, but still at least 70% are gonna be giving you fake numbers. I PERSONALLY don’t know a single fem 19 - 60 on whom this would work. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Jabez](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jabez/32/2193_2.png) [@Jabez](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jabez)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 11:58am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/75 "2011-05-19T11:58:35Z")
Everyone is different, I am not gonna waste my time. If the girl don’t give me her number first try, on to the next. You fail to see it from my perspective. I want to get know girls who are down to earth and like to have fun. Just because I get a girls number in 2-3 songs does not mean I just want to have sex with her. That gets boring. I would rather take the girl out to the Club and go dancing, or go somewhere nice and Salsa. I am not only about sex. I mean my game is built around it, but I don’t use it for that much any more. Now I just use it to have fun. If there is a girl shooting down all the guys, what am I gonna do?? Go get her number on a piece of paper and throw it away as I am walking out the door for her to see. Sometimes I just go out to have fun. That is a blast not gonna lie. I mean some people think I am crazy for doing it but idc there will always be a prettier or Nicer girl for whom I can talk to. So throwing away some stuck up bitches number away. No problem ---
**Author:** ![RADMAN513](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/radman513/32/364_2.png) [@RADMAN513](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RADMAN513)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/76 "2011-05-19T14:24:37Z")
> [@Astrea](#): > > Yeah, ah - no. I’m with Boudicca on this. Your dance to phone would only work on the most naive and young. A ‘quality’ woman wouldn’t play into that with her real number. How rude do you think you can be to a PERSON before someone throws that phone into a jug of beer? Unless of course these are just meat markets looking for no more than a ONS. I could see that working, but still at least 70% are gonna be giving you fake numbers. > > I PERSONALLY don’t know a single fem 19 - 60 on whom this would work. Sorry. Respectfully I’m going to disagree. My experience has been that women tend to get rather defensive when the concept of pickup and seduction as a learnable skill comes up. The notion that a womans responses can be predictable enough to build a strategy around seducing her is offensive to them and runs contrary to what they want to believe about themselves and “romance” as opposed to the reality. It’s the same subconscious defense mechanism that’s at work when they lament “why can’t I just find a ‘nice guy’?” or advise men to “just be yourself”. It’s because that supports what they WANT to believe. Women as a general rule don’t want to believe they’d respond more favorably to a cocky. aggressive guy over a sweet, romantic “nice guy”, and they don’t want to believe that they can be “tricked” by seduction strategies and tactics. When statistical evidence runs contrary to what they want to believe, they alter the argument to either A.) Question the quality of the women that DO respond to certain tactics. "Well that sorta stuff would NEVER work on a woman of “QUALITY”. Or B.) Paint themselves and their social circle as being exceptions to the rule. “Personally that sorta stuff would never work on me or anyone I know”. The thing is, when done right seduction tactics slip under the radar, I’ve met and built attraction with women that have Masters degree’s and done it using an anti-game gambit…meaning a large part of the conversation was about how pua tactics don’t work and how the guys that use them are lonely, pathetic losers…the entire time actually using the very tactics I’m calling worthless junk and getting her to agree with me on. I’ve transitioned from A2 building attraction in the woman, to A3 expressing my own attraction for her by complimenting her on how she seems to be a smarter and more savvy woman than the type that would fall for pickup lines and seduction tricks. “You know, I totally didn’t expect to meet somebody like you here, you’re a little smarter and fiestier than the girls I usually see in places like this. I can totally see you blowing out one guy after another when they try to use some lame pickup lines and stuff and on you…that impresses me.” and they respond quite well to the compliment because it consciously supports what they want to believe, while at the same time acting what I know to be genuinely effective. Which is to first make her find me attractive, and then show my own attraction from a perspective as being based on more than her looks and that she’s earned it. Jabez direct approach can work, while it’s not my own personal style I’ve seen guys use similar methods and get quite a bit of success…even with “women of quality”. ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/77 "2011-05-19T15:16:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Women as a general rule don’t want to believe they’d respond more favorably to a cocky. aggressive guy over a sweet, romantic “nice guy”, and they don’t want to believe that they can be “tricked” by seduction strategies and tactics. I think its lies in that one little word you used… “tricked” I dont even like to reference it when discussing PUA because many people especially women see it as just that. Being tricked and that is not what seduce or seduction means. The art of seduction is to create allure, temptation, charm, appeal. Its how we create attraction. Its not a trick used to mislead. Sure some guys just dont get it and end up using it that way and those are the guys we tend to pick up on right away. Women have used those same tactics on men for centuries. Its how the dance is danced. Seducing is a age old tradition of give and take between men and women. Tactics is just snappy marketing term for the teaching of seduction. Women seduce men all the time and men seduce women. Its not a nasty term. To tell you the truth it wasn’t till I started studying up on PUA and social interaction that I realized my husband seduced me LOL Course I thought the sun and moon rose and set on him so it wasn’t hard to do but now I can clearly see those actions he took we now call PUA “tactics”. Jabez’s direct approach may not be for everyone. It may not appeal to every woman’s personality but that can be said for many tactics used. People offer the tips up and people use what fits there comfort levels and life style. In this age of technology with cell phones and facebook etc etc its not unusual for people use this approach. I see people do it a lot. I have had it done to me on my route but I dont put my phone number in. I put the postmasters number LOL I’m never rude or angry about it though because how can you try to look attractive and then be mad at people when they become attracted to you. Its makes no sense to me. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![RADMAN513](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/radman513/32/364_2.png) [@RADMAN513](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RADMAN513)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/78 "2011-05-19T19:48:01Z")
You’re right, but I also believe part of the problem women have with it is that its now being “formally” taught making it a learned skill. I think most women prefer to believe the the personality of their seduced is just who he naturally is, and that the seduction itself was a spontaneous event. The notion that the skill can be learned and the event planned smashed the illusions created by Harlequin novels and soap operas. You’re correct in seduction being used by women since the dawn of time, but I think most women see it differently. For them, seduction as a skill was partially developed by natural instinct, and partially learned by simple social observations growing up. Little girls watch what mommy does to get daddy to give her what she wants amd they imprint that information. Boys tend not to pay quite as much attention to interactions that don’t involve them. You even see this today, go to a magazine rack and compare the men’s and women’s sections to get an idea of who is more interested other peoples relationships. It’s this need to know how others interact that give women an advantage later when grown. ---
**Author:** ![Jabez](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jabez/32/2193_2.png) [@Jabez](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jabez)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/79 "2011-05-19T21:24:09Z")
Jabez direct approach can work, while it’s not my own personal style I’ve seen guys use similar methods and get quite a bit of success…even with “women of quality”. That’s the only way I go. How I was brought up. If you want something go after it. Do not wait for it to land in your lap. You will be waiting forever and never get anything done. I believe As men we need to Assertive and when we have to be aggressive. Being direct and too the point can also help create attraction. It shows confidence and swag, that you are not afraid to go after what you want.I have had girls just give there numbers right after I introduce myself and tell them that I had to come and introduce myself. ---
**Author:** ![Astrea](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/astrea/32/1928_2.png) [@Astrea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Astrea)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 11:08am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992/80 "2011-05-20T11:08:23Z")
> [@RADMAN513](#): > > **]Respectfully I’m going to disagree. My experience has been that women tend to get rather defensive when the concept of pickup and seduction as a learnable skill comes up. The notion that a womans responses can be predictable enough to build a strategy around seducing her is offensive to them and runs contrary to what they want to believe about themselves and “romance” as opposed to the reality.** > It’s the same subconscious defense mechanism that’s at work when they lament “why can’t I just find a ‘nice guy’?” or advise men to “just be yourself”. It’s because that supports what they WANT to believe. Women as a general rule don’t want to believe they’d respond more favorably to a cocky. aggressive guy over a sweet, romantic “nice guy”, and they don’t want to believe that they can be “tricked” by seduction strategies and tactics. > When statistical evidence runs contrary to what they want to believe, they alter the argument to either > A.) **Question the quality of the women that** DO respond to certain tactics. "Well that sorta stuff would NEVER work on a woman of “QUALITY”. > Or > B.) Paint themselves and their social circle as being exceptions to the rule. “ **Personally that sorta stuff would never work on me or anyone** I know”. > > The thing is, when done right seduction tactics slip under the radar, I’ve met and built attraction with women that have Masters degree’s and done it using an anti-game gambit…meaning a large part of the conversation was about how pua tactics don’t work and how the guys that use them are lonely, pathetic losers…the entire time actually using the very tactics I’m calling worthless junk and getting her to agree with me on. > I’ve transitioned from A2 building attraction in the woman, to A3 expressing my own attraction for her by complimenting her on how she seems to be a smarter and more savvy woman than the type that would fall for pickup lines and seduction tricks. “You know, I totally didn’t expect to meet somebody like you here, you’re a little smarter and fiestier than the girls I usually see in places like this. I can totally see you blowing out one guy after another when they try to use some lame pickup lines and stuff and on you…that impresses me.” and they respond quite well to the compliment because it consciously supports what they want to believe, while at the same time acting what I know to be genuinely effective. Which is to first make her find me attractive, and then show my own attraction from a perspective as being based on more than her looks and that she’s earned it. > > Jabez direct approach can work, while it’s not my own personal style I’ve seen guys use similar methods and get quite a bit of success…even with “women of quality”. Respectfully, I never said that. I said I (and the fems I know) wouldn’t play that game. Of course seduction and pick up are learnable. So’s flirting, body language choreography and so forth. Never, ever said I wasn’t susceptible to tactics. Quite the opposite. I appreciate a slick guy with an intelligent game plan. Effort and skill are always to be appreciated. The ‘quality’ question was quoting his own words. So basically, what’s his definition of a quality fem? And of course that stuff works! Never said it didn’t. Just said couldn’t see that **game** working. Of course it works. For this reason alone for me: If someone is going to use their game (that they’ve spent time and money developing) on me; I consider that quite flattering. And yes, with witty repartee, some jokes and all the other cues; the attention IS flattering. Just didn’t see that one working, 2-3 songs for a girl to make up her mind? I know guys know in 3 seconds; but girls don’t work that way. That’s more the reason for refusal and indecision. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992.md?page=3) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/help-to-the-masses/189992.md?page=5)