# Hey All! Hopeful skeptic with a problem here **URL:** \ **Category:** Introductions - New Users, Say "Hello"!\ **Created:** [March 17, 2010, 10:13am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/hey-all-hopeful-skeptic-with-a-problem-here/37087 "2010-03-17T10:13:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![quesoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/b9e5f3/32.png) [@quesoman](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/quesoman)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 10:13am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/hey-all-hopeful-skeptic-with-a-problem-here/37087/1 "2010-03-17T10:13:00Z")
Hey All, I am new to these forums and thought I would introduce myself by telling you a little about myself, what I am looking for, and my take on pheremones thus far. Sorry this post is so fricking long - just figured I’d put it all in here. **About Myself/what I am looking for:** I am 23 and of Indian heritage (though born and brought up in the United States). With girls in general, I do mediocrely - I’m a pretty good looking guy, confident, I’m fairly good at picking up signals, flirting etc. I think my biggest struggle is in my size - I’m a pretty small guy…5’8 and not very largely built (thank you Indian ancestors). I have realized/noticed that to develop that sense of presence and value with girls (or in any situation for that matter) it takes a certain degree of social finesse on my part to almost establish a dominance. Doable, but sometimes requiring an extra effort. I also notice that most of the girls who show an interest in me are pretty petite and usually (from their track records) don’t like going for guys a whole lot bigger than themselves. I do also find myself getting into the “friend zone” with some girls more than I would like to. So I’m definitely looking for [pheromones](https://a314.com/shop/) that can help with all I have mentioned above (from what I have read A314 sounds about right?). Also, sometimes, when I am tired, I have trouble chatting with girls about very casual things - movies, shows, sports… just the things around us (would IH or something help here?). In specific, there is a girl I am interested in right now. I became friends with her in a 4 day long “camp” 8 years ago, and, though we have since been “friends” through Facebook and brief updates through mutual friends, I hadn’t seen/talked to her until a couple weeks ago when I ran into her. Since, we have met up a couple times, and hit it off really well, ending with me paying for dinner + drinks and what not (which could easily be interpreted as a courteous friendly gesture). It’s really flirty and I get a lot of IOIs, but she is flirty person in general, and I haven’t gotten any blatant signs of interest or disinterest. She is VERY conservative when it comes to dating etc. She’s basically never really dated anyone for more than a few weeks, though she is very pretty/flirty and I’m sure has gotten tons of opportunities to. Not sure if it’s a trust thing or a waiting for the perfect guy to sweep her off her feet thing, but that character seems typical of some conservative Indian girls. She is looking for someone to get married to, but I also feels she has pretty high standards since she wouldn’t get into something unless it was going to be serious. That said, I think ti would be best to meet up with her 1 on 1 a few more times to build that trust/interest before asking her to go out on a clear-cut formal date with me. What would be the best sorta pheromones to use for this sorta thing? **My take on Pheromones:** Right now, I am definitely skeptical…but only because I haven’t tried them before. _On one hand_, it seems like everything can be attributed to the placebo effect. It’s easy and in sync with human nature to justify something with whatever reason we can find. Hypothetically, if I had worn pheromones the last month or so, I can totally see myself attributing the times I’ve done well with girls to the pheromones, and the times I didn’t to OD’ing, not wearing the right mixes etc. It’s probably self fueling too - the confidence that something you are doing is working makes you do better, and thus further builds your confidence in pheromones etc. Do people take this into consideration when they profess that there is a REAL change they see in people? _That said_, there’s a lot that makes me believe in them. For one, there is so much scientific backing. I’ve read plenty of blind/double blind studies to convince me that they do have an effect on something, and can’t just placebo. Additionally, the confidence people share on these forums, and the numerous stories of skeptics turned to believers add so much validity to the whole thing. Lastly, I think it is very understandable that a lot of people may not immediately see the bold and profound effect that they are hoping for. So, when people say they don’t, that doesn’t deter my beliefs. I have read many people on here say it is not a magic pull or a golden ticket…it’s still 90% you and 10% pheromones. The way I see it, it may be something that isn’t exactly quantifiable like that, but, just might increase your “pull” rather than your overall success. It gives you a tool to use. For example, if you were suddenly a few inches taller, or had a better looking smile or something, if you went out and acted like you normally do, you wouldn’t notice THAT much of an instantaneous difference. Not everyone will suddenly hit on you. However, peoples overall impression/attraction towards you might be better than before. And, if you learned how to utilize that trait as a foothold - smile/laugh more when talking to people if you had a better smile etc. - it can lead to something. Just my $.02 on the matter. I guess I will have to try them to find out for real. Once again sorry for the long post! ---
**Author:** ![\_moko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/0ea827/32.png) [@\_moko](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/_moko)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 10:36am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/hey-all-hopeful-skeptic-with-a-problem-here/37087/2 "2010-03-17T10:36:07Z")
Hello quesoman and welcome to the forum! I believe you find this forum very interesting. Don’t apologise for long post. I see you put a lot of effort and thoughts on your introduction, I really enjoyed reading it 🙂 You seem like a wise guy, and understand what pheromones can do and what they can’t. A314 is a product that will definedly give you respect and makes you santd out more from the crowd. Downside with this product is that some people will find you not that approachable, but you can solve that problem eith other pheromones. For example, Instant Shine works great with A314. It makes you seem cool guy and makes people feel good in your precence. I would also suggest Ammo for you. It is popular product athat is wery well balanced. You can wear it daytime and nighttime. It gives you some confidence and makes you more noticeable. There is also sexual spark in it. I have one question, do you find it hard to keep conversation going? If yes, them Instant Iopenness helps in this problem. On the other hand, if you feel that you have hard time to make conversation deeper and more meaningful, then [Instant Honesty](https://a314.com/product/instant-honesty/) is better. There is also CTTM2 that contains both characteristics. (I haven’t used it myself) So here is some info, please ask if you have any questions 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gone_with_the_wind/32/2227_2.png) [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gone_with_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 12:18pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/hey-all-hopeful-skeptic-with-a-problem-here/37087/3 "2010-03-17T12:18:35Z")
A314 is good, but depending on your personality may inspire some people to stand off a bit. IG is also rone based and does not put people off as much, but also doesn’t raise status as much. I suggest you get both, get familiar with both, and then mix and match. Then you’ll be able to adjust the ratios as needed. Both are good for traditional-type girls looking for a stable relationship. ---
**Author:** ![MVKBUGATTI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/50afbb/32.png) [@MVKBUGATTI](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MVKBUGATTI)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 1:16pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/hey-all-hopeful-skeptic-with-a-problem-here/37087/4 "2010-03-17T13:16:09Z")
Hello and welcome to the forum Quesoman, Quesoman, I thought I had a long introduction, you '_one up me’_,🙂 One thing I’ll say it is refreshing to hear a prespective, you alread receive great advise from Moko, and my primary reason of greeting you this morning is primary to say - you’re now a member of the forum. As well as the others, I would like talk about A314, eventhough I feel that you have already have good understanding on the commerical line of products, and can ID which product you would likely to try. Here’s my concern, A314, is '_all that and more’_, however I beleive if a person is too quiet while wearing this social application it _could be_ counterproductive, unless _this_ lady is kind of person who just happens to looking for that high caliber guy, who happens to on the quiet side. I find that wearing this product, you’ll have to express yourself and let loose; then with self confidence feeling flowing it can be attention grabbing to some. So if A314 sounds about right, you may want to go in that direction. Since your female friend is VERY conservative when it comes to dating, I could see you doing this. As Moko already stated, either [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/), IO or IH to go with A314. ---
**Author:** ![seekingadvice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58f4c7/32.png) [@seekingadvice](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/seekingadvice)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/hey-all-hopeful-skeptic-with-a-problem-here/37087/5 "2010-03-17T15:02:29Z")
Hey welcome queso. I myself am in a somewhat similar position as you. My heritage is of Indian and I understand how you say its hard to really understand what can be taken as what. I had one question, was she raised here as well? I’m taking she has been here a while since you said you first met her 8 years ago. So she probably understands both cultures very well. I think you have a great shot, you may want to try to ammo, i myself haven’t tried yet but i’m going to be having my first order of a few mones today 🙂. Ammo will give you that slight sexual as i know many Indian girls are “conservative” but from my experience and from what I observed, they seem that way but they are just as any girls. You just have to get her interested. Just like everyone else, a314 can be great along with some other pheromone such as [Instant Openness](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/) or Instant Shine. May I ask if you are in New Jersey area? ---
**Author:** ![antisoshal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@antisoshal](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/antisoshal)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/hey-all-hopeful-skeptic-with-a-problem-here/37087/6 "2010-03-17T15:11:31Z")
Here’s some basic science as best as I have learned, accumulated and postulated: The VNO which governs phermonal behavior in animals is often cited as why phermones cant work in humans. The VNO is a literal translator of instinctual commands in animals, and is not really present in humans. If a female pig in heat smells “none”, she kneels. No matter what. Its a command to her central nervous system. Evolution “decided” a while back that human behavior had gotten complex enough that having literal COMMANDS that could only be obeyed was at certain times very bad. It made this decision because humans that simply obeyed instinctual commands to mate or cede authority at the wrong times got themselves killed by predators and other humans. Our VNO went away. In its place, our regular sense of smell began processing olfactory cues though our emotional and cognitive pathways. Instead of simply kneeling down, a woman becomes attracted to a man during a hunt. Instead of getting killed, she might be a bit distracted, but she remembers later and jumps on him to make babies. Creating emotional and cognitive responses that were allowed to be situational allowed for greater survivability, and this is what evolution is about. We stopped being slaves to absolute instinct and became slaves to emotion and idea. Placebo is a valid word here but be careful not to interchange it with the fact that many of what are considered “mones” are behavioral hormones as well. Most “mones” are created in humans as part of the metabolic process to facilitate an emotional or cognitive behavior. Many are neurotransmitters that are part of creating behavior. The effect they have on us is solid and undeniable. “None” will induce confidence and authority: we WILL behave as though we feel we posses these things. This behavior is obvious to others from body language and expression. The ability of others to smell and react to “mones” enters in at close range. When most women smell none or nol, evolution has programmed them to take these as indications this person creating these will be a good mate and provider as well as even an emotionally positive influence. Don’t think of it as though we evolved to create “mones” to communicate an idea. Think of it as though we evolved to DETECT “mones” in others as a way of detecting their values and potential abilities. As such, many of them have distinct and literal affects on the wearer as well. This is not placebo. Its real behavioral change that can be seen and will be reacted to by others. Placebo only enters in when you THINK the “mones” will get you all the chicks in the world, and as such become more confident and assertive than you would because you think you cant lose. Differentiating between the two would be difficult without double blind study of subjects, and that costs money. Good luck with that. Dont think of these chemicals as “lures” or attractants. Think of them as a means to induce more attractive behavior in yourself, and enhance the ability to communicate the presence of those values to others. In a way, you are using them to actually become more attractive, if only for the duration of their presence. Like any neurochemical, overuse will lessen the effect and eventually they will do little for you. Use in moderation, when appropriate, to BE more attractive, not just smell more attractive. ---
**Author:** ![Kelsey](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/kelsey/32/8468_2.png) [@Kelsey](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Kelsey)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/hey-all-hopeful-skeptic-with-a-problem-here/37087/7 "2010-03-17T20:40:58Z")
Hello and welcome to PheroTalk. I am so happy you were able to discover this most amazing community. We consider each other like family here and are totally committed to helping each other out. There are so many great people here and now another too 🙂. I will be issuing your GC in just a short while to your email. I would love to be able to personally respond to every new user signing on, but because I want to ensure you get the GC in time I can only reply with this message at this time. I’m sure you are anxious to get started, just like the rest of us were too 🙂. Its cool! Of course I am available to answer any question you might have regarding mones selection by calling me personally on the hotline. Please select extension one and I will be able to consult you one on one. Welcome to the forum. ---
**Author:** ![quesoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/b9e5f3/32.png) [@quesoman](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/quesoman)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 8:28am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/hey-all-hopeful-skeptic-with-a-problem-here/37087/8 "2010-03-24T08:28:52Z")
Thanks for the replies everyone! Much appreciated. It has definitely helped me figure out what I am looking for. A314 sounds like it’s a little _riskier_, whereas Ammo sounds like a good stand alone product - so I think I’ll go with that one. Also…I’m kinda worried of coming off as slightly cocky/standoffish…cause that can sometimes be the vibe I give off even though it’s not intended. I can be really laid back (though the life of the party at times too)…so at times when I am, I am afraid that A314 might not play well into that. Seeking Advice - Yeah, she’s born and brought up in the US, like me. I totally what you mean about a lot of conservative Indian girls. The way I see it, no matter how conservative they are…they still need to see that sexuality and feel the attraction there, or they just won’t be interested in that way. But imo there is a difference… a lot of them don’t seem to mind the “nice guy” personality as much (not the desperate kind of nice…lol). They seem pretty patient taking their time getting to know and liking a guy before dating him. Maybe what I am saying is they aren’t as quick to “friend zone” people? Maybe I am wrong. Would you agree/disagree? I’m still at about the same level of skepticism with pheromones: **Some things that reaffirm my hopes quite a bit:** - fMRI studies showing that the hypothalamus in _women_ is very active when exposed to androstenone (but not other olfactory triggers), but not in men. - Some double blind behavioral studies (like speed dating etc.) showing good and clear results - DIEHARD skeptics being convinced on this forum only upon trying it themselves (I Love seeing that!) - People with steady relationships that found their SO acts significantly different around mones (because seeing the difference in something that is fairly regular and familiar is more telling) - Pheromones not being fully accepted in the scientific community (which has extremely high standards) solely because multiple streamlined studies testing the same thing are hard to perform (it’s hard to compare and make a conclusion based on a behavioral speed dating test vs. results of women smelling sweaty T-shirts or an fMRI scan…but numerous/different tests all show good results…so to me personally that is plenty) - pheromones not being accepted in the scientific community solely because of a lack of stringent definition (I’ve read a lot of articles that suggest pheromones in humans are bogus because they have proved the VNO doesn’t work, and pheromones are defined as agents being received through the VNO - frankly I don’t give a damn what they want to call things…as long as they work and are received in some way) **Some things that reaffirm my doubts:** - So many non-scientific commercial studies (with possible conflicting interests) - notes and journals on this forum describing very subtle results…someone flirting with you or checking you out, to me, can easily be rationalized or skewed in our minds. I can think of one girl today that was unusually talkative to me, one that was unusually touchy, and guys that were very nice, and ones that were strangely aggressive. If I was wearing a pheromone, I would probably be able to read into any of those. - Each product having such an exact definition of what they do - I feel like there just isn’t enough scientific evidence on specific products…is the claim that IH works differently than A314 just based on reported user experiences? All that just seems to me to play into sales/marketing - anything that happens can more easily attributed to these specific explanations (ODing, wrong mix, wrong congruency with the person, wearing A314 when it should have been IO). It’s like when Tarot card predict “something good will happen _to a loved one_” rather than “something good will happen in general.” That way, when you’re good friend gets that job promotion, you can say oh wow. (hope I’m not stepping on too many toes here! Just sharing opinions) - Dissenting scientific evidence. There are both behavioral and lab studies I have read that claim that pheromones have no effect. (that said I have read far more that say they do) - The brain and the placebo effect are VERY people…and group/mob mentality/thought is very convincing and contagious. So, I really hope to try these things out and hope I find that they work! Once again, sorry for the long post and thanks for any further information/feedback. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMe](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/smellme/32/707_2.png) [@SmellMe](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SmellMe)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/hey-all-hopeful-skeptic-with-a-problem-here/37087/9 "2010-03-26T15:57:01Z")
This post is more about how you could grow the relationship between you and that girl further. Since you already know her, I would highly recommend IH to you. It will help develop a deeper personal connection and sense of trust between you and her. IO is not really necessary since you already know her (but useful if you want to meet new people and make new friends or if you feel she doesn’t know you very well yet). Use IH together with a none product (e.g. Ammo) to introduce a sexual undertone if you wish, so she knows that you are a potential mate instead of just a friend. If she previously only regarded you as a friend, she might now see you under a different light. Don’t go over the top though. Try a little bit at first to gauge her reaction. If she starts becoming standoffish, cut the none as she probably feels that you are coming on too strong. Unless she doesn’t respect you, you don’t really need to use A314 around her. In a relationship, respect builds from trust. So you should establish trust with her first (with help from IH). Also one important thing, NEVER tell her that you like/love her first lol trust me. Only admit your feelings if she admits her’s first or that you know beyond doubt that she likes you. Another product that you may find useful is IG, this give you a dependable vibe (important since she is looking for husband material). That’s about it really, one last thing I’ll add is you know how the saying goes, “you can’t learn to swim without getting into the water”. Just try out the products I mentioned (especially the IH) with your GC and see how it goes, worry about the science later. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain (perhaps a GF?) lol good luck!