# How bad is the economy in your country? **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [January 22, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234 "2009-01-22T23:15:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jamesbonded](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jamesbonded/32/2090_2.png) [@jamesbonded](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jamesbonded)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/1 "2009-01-22T23:15:30Z")
Let’s share. The economy situation now is quite worrying. How bad is the economy in your country? How bad are you affected? As my country is concerned, factories are having much drop in order. Many registered more than 50% drop. Companies are taking steps to shut down for 1 or 2 weeks during festive seasons to enable them to save on wages. As for me, I am dealing with projects. My projects were signed last year. SO it is still ok at the moment. Let’s hear from you. Thanks 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Whitehall](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/whitehall/32/1087_2.png) [@Whitehall](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Whitehall)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/2 "2009-01-22T23:24:03Z")
I have friends in New Jersey and they tell me the local economy is SOOOO bad, the Mafia had to lay off three judges! Seriously, here in Silicon Valley, the office vacancy rate is now above the national average. That’s pretty unusual. ---
**Author:** ![Mtnjim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mtnjim/32/2010_2.png) [@Mtnjim](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mtnjim)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/3 "2009-01-22T23:57:17Z")
> [@Whitehall](#): > > Seriously, here in Silicon Valley, the office vacancy rate is now above the national average. That’s pretty unusual. And today Microsoft announced it was going to lay off 5,000 people. The first lay offs in company history. Also Intel announced net profits off 90% over last year. Both Silicon Vally heavyweights. Hopefully Obama’s infrastructure projects plan will work as well as the one (WPA) in the 1930’s (post Hoover). ---
**Author:** ![Whitehall](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/whitehall/32/1087_2.png) [@Whitehall](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Whitehall)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/4 "2009-01-23T00:03:07Z")
MtnJim, Re your desire “Hopefully Obama’s infrastructure projects plan will work as well as the one (WPA) in the 1930’s (post Hoover)”, I suggest you read Amity Schales’ book, “The Forgotten Man” about the Great Depression or Milton Freedman’s book on the same subject. > **[The Forgotten Man: A New History of the Great Depression: Shlaes, Amity:...](https://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-Man-History-Great-Depression/dp/0060936428)** > > The Forgotten Man: A New History of the Great Depression \[Shlaes, Amity\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. The Forgotten Man: A New History of the Great Depression Rooseveldt’s (and Hoover’s) policies only made the economy worst and turned a recession into the worst depression in our history. If Obama continues down that path, we’re well and truly screwed. We need a Calvin Cooledge! ---
**Author:** ![jamesbonded](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jamesbonded/32/2090_2.png) [@jamesbonded](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jamesbonded)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/5 "2009-01-23T00:44:33Z")
> [@Mtnjim](#): > > And today Microsoft announced it was going to lay off 5,000 people. The first lay offs in company history. Also Intel announced net profits off 90% over last year. Both Silicon Vally heavyweights. > Hopefully Obama’s infrastructure projects plan will work as well as the one (WPA) in the 1930’s (post Hoover). Normally the heavyweights will be hit first – General Motor, ING, Citigroup and lots more ---
**Author:** ![Mtnjim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mtnjim/32/2010_2.png) [@Mtnjim](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mtnjim)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/6 "2009-01-23T00:54:37Z")
> [@Whitehall](#): > > MtnJim, > > Re your desire “Hopefully Obama’s infrastructure projects plan will work as well as the one (WPA) in the 1930’s (post Hoover)”, I suggest you read Amity Schales’ book, “The Forgotten Man” about the Great Depression or Milton Freedman’s book on the same subject. Are you talking about the same Amity Schales who is an economic historian at the _Council on Foreign Relations_ the ultra right wing group that opposes a minimum wage, work safety rules and electrifying much of rural America (TVA)? That same Amity Schales? You might want to look at history, Herbert Hoover, at the insistence of his treasury secretary Andrew W. Mellon, guaranteed that the government not do anything to prevent the recession from becoming the depression, and said the “free market” would take care of everything. We saw how that worked. When FDR was elected, the first thing he did was call a “bank holiday” to stem the bank rushes. Next he regulated the banking and stock markets. The same regulations Republicans have been so busy deregulating since Reagan, and you can see where that got us. FDR then started the WPA to build/rebuild the nation’s infrastructure. This put millions to work. I still (80 years later) get value from this program twice a day when I use a WPA bridge driving to work and home, talk about return on value. The country was slowly coming out of the depression when WWII came along and yanked us out of it. Nah, I think I’ll stick with my original thought. We’ve seen over the past 8 years how the ultra right wing _wants_ to rule, they just couldn’t get everything they wanted in place, can anyone say authoritarian theocracy? ---
**Author:** ![Mtnjim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mtnjim/32/2010_2.png) [@Mtnjim](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mtnjim)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/7 "2009-01-23T00:57:17Z")
> [@jamesbonded](#): > > Normally the heavyweights will be hit first – General Motor, ING, Citigroup and lots more And just before the bail outs, my work said **AIG** 😮 would be running the 401K part of my retirement. _(Actually, it’s a 403B, the 401K for non profit and public universities)_ ---
**Author:** ![diamond](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diamond/32/859_2.png) [@diamond](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diamond)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 9:40am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/8 "2009-01-23T09:40:35Z")
Well the UK is now officially in recession ( tell me something I didn’t already know) Major High Street chains are going to the wall, one of them (Woolworths) on the 99th anniversary of opening it’s first store! I have had one new property instruction in the past four months, property prices are going to fall another 25% on top of the 15% we have already seen ( even the estate agents are saying 15%). The other side of our practice (Criminal defence) is booming but there is little money in that work. We are lucky, with a little careful planning and a recruitment freeze we can ride the storm, hopefully without losing any staff. The largest firm in this County has laid off 20% and closed an entire office. Historically (post war) the UK has been about 6-9months behind the US economy so I don’t perceive my market picking up until Summer 2010 at the earliest. Perfect timing when we are spending billions preparing to host the 2012 Olympics. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehall](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/whitehall/32/1087_2.png) [@Whitehall](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Whitehall)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/9 "2009-01-23T15:24:01Z")
Jim, That’s why I recommended the book - so people could get their facts straight! Hoover was in fact extremely radical and activist in his policies - and they were bad policies! You’ve might not like Schales’ associations (or her personally) but let her marshalling of the facts and deductions speak for themselves. In other words, avoid fallacious ad hominem reasoning. He raised taxes, including punitive tariffs and income taxes. He began the over regulation of business and started “infrastructure stimulus” programs. That’s why both Democrats and Republicans shun him. One of Freedman’s books [The Great Contraction, 1929-1933: New Edition (Princeton Classic Editions): Friedman, Milton, Schwartz, Anna Jacobson, Schwartz, Anna Jacobson, Bernstein, Peter L.: 9780691137940: Amazon.com: Books](http://www.amazon.com/Great-Contraction-1929-1933-Princeton-Editions/dp/0691137943/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232723884&sr=1-4:) The Great Contraction, 1929-1933: (New Edition) (Princeton Classic Editions): Milton Friedman, Anna Jacobson Schwartz, Peter L. Bernstein: Books[/ame] should get you started. This one is for general audiences; he has ones for economics too. Both tell the story of a lack of money and too much government interference. Don’t get me started on TVA! Did you know they make 80% of their electricity from coal? ---
**Author:** ![denec](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/denec/32/1730_2.png) [@denec](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/denec)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/10 "2009-01-23T15:51:32Z")
IMO this is what happens when you look for the government to help fix the economy and this started not 8 years ago but way before that say 80 years in the making This started after the great depression. We really need to start over and stop with the bailouts as far as the US is concerned. If companies fail then let them fail, bailing them out will only make it worst later. ---
**Author:** ![lukester19](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lukester19/32/1953_2.png) [@lukester19](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/lukester19)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/11 "2009-01-23T16:04:34Z")
Yes these bailouts are hard earned taxpayers money. They are just throwing money around. I still do not understand how America can do this when they are in major debt. It is becoming to risky. ---
**Author:** ![diamond](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diamond/32/859_2.png) [@diamond](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diamond)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/12 "2009-01-23T16:07:01Z")
Absolutely denec, Despite the political cost, in a capitalist society, the weakest must be culled. Throwing tax money at a failure merely to save a few thousand votes is always going to lead to further problems down the line. Survival of the fittest must prevail. ---
**Author:** ![Wrlprchnx](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/wrlprchnx/32/1360_2.png) [@Wrlprchnx](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Wrlprchnx)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/13 "2009-01-23T16:44:36Z")
In Canada we just started to have some job losses… I think our recession officially began in the last quarter… Our central bank is actually only expecting a short recession lasting until 2010. In my particular province there have been some layoff’s in the aerospace sector (Boeing) - but that is actually more related to the fact the 787 design is behind schedule, not because there isn’t any work. My particular company has had a couple of fan orders cancelled, but we are actually still looking at meeting or beating our sales projections for the year. My only concern is the reduction in oil prices has made train transportation less appealing, which means that locomotive orders might be down - which happens to be what I do for my company (handle locomotive fan development and production). Luckily, unless we stop making them entirely we still need to have SOMEONE doing my job… safe until at least 2010 I would say I.E. Where I am things are really not that bad… but thats probably because when the economy was booming everywhere else, Manitoba just kinda chugged along with modest gains… We don’t boom or bust in MB… just chug ---
**Author:** ![Whitehall](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/whitehall/32/1087_2.png) [@Whitehall](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Whitehall)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/14 "2009-01-23T18:41:57Z")
At least this guy has a positive and realistic suggestion: [American Thinker: Productive stimulus: Fast-track nuclear power](http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/01/productive_stimulation_fasttra.html) Start digging for a dozen new nuclear reactors. If one HAS to blow government money, this idea looks like it might do some good! Plus, Jim’s beloved TVA could start their new plant at Bellefonte (see bottom of page): [DOE - Office of Nuclear Energy](http://www.ne.doe.gov/np2010/neNP2010c.html) ---
**Author:** ![Mtnjim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mtnjim/32/2010_2.png) [@Mtnjim](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mtnjim)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/15 "2009-01-23T20:19:09Z")
> [@Whitehall](#): > > Plus, Jim’s beloved TVA could start their new plant at Bellefonte (see bottom of page) Not exactly my “beloved” TVA, but without them, large parts of the rural south would still be without electricity were it left simply to business. Consider, I live in a rural part of San Diego county. San Diego county is highly populated with high tech industries including Qualcomm. Even challenging the Silicon Valley. Business, not the county (government) is responsible for Broadband access. I don’t have, nor will I ever get broadband at my home. I have asked when the phone company was going to install DSL, and they said they had no plans to ever install it in my area. It isn’t profitable enough for them. Same with the cable company. Sort of like electricity in the rural south, not profitable enough.😠 My feeling is that the modern ultra conservatives have forgotten the “common good”. Back in the 1600’ there were community barn raiseings. This was where the community (“government”) would get together and help a farmer build his barn. I can see the modern ultra conservative back then refusing to participate since if the fool couldn’t build his own barn, he didn’t deserve one. I don’t believe in the “socialistic” hand out, but I do believe in the “common good” and not repeating the bad parts of history.🙂 Oh ya, the nuclear reactors. What’s taking so long, except for irrational fear that is. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehall](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/whitehall/32/1087_2.png) [@Whitehall](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Whitehall)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/16 "2009-01-23T20:44:34Z")
There does need to be a balance and government can get some jobs done that private enterprise can’t. Unfortunately, when government gets involved, the chances of misdirection and corruption skyrocket. Still, I thought the Rural Electrification Act made more sense than TVA. Private utilities weren’t doing too bad a job in the area at the time but had little incentive to subsidize the small, poor, isolated customers. Ever price the electrical transmission and distribution lines? Likewise in your case - would you pay the necessary costs or are you just hoping someone else will? How about the Hughes satillite internet service? Great for downloads although you still need a telephone line for uploads. ---
**Author:** ![Mtnjim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mtnjim/32/2010_2.png) [@Mtnjim](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mtnjim)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/17 "2009-01-23T22:31:35Z")
My response is [here](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-30s-v-now/25273/1), [link broken] so as not to hijack _this_ thread.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![skeeter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@skeeter](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/skeeter)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/18 "2009-01-24T02:40:13Z")
> [@Mtnjim](#): > > Are you talking about the same Amity Schales who is an economic historian at the _Council on Foreign Relations_ the ultra right wing group that opposes a minimum wage, work safety rules and electrifying much of rural America (TVA)? > > That same Amity Schales? > > You might want to look at history, Herbert Hoover, at the insistence of his treasury secretary Andrew W. Mellon, guaranteed that the government not do anything to prevent the recession from becoming the depression, and said the “free market” would take care of everything. We saw how that worked. When FDR was elected, the first thing he did was call a “bank holiday” to stem the bank rushes. Next he regulated the banking and stock markets. The same regulations Republicans have been so busy deregulating since Reagan, and you can see where that got us. FDR then started the WPA to build/rebuild the nation’s infrastructure. This put millions to work. I still (80 years later) get value from this program twice a day when I use a WPA bridge driving to work and home, talk about return on value. The country was slowly coming out of the depression when WWII came along and yanked us out of it. > > Nah, I think I’ll stick with my original thought. We’ve seen over the past 8 years how the ultra right wing _wants_ to rule, they just couldn’t get everything they wanted in place, can anyone say authoritarian theocracy? Printing money is not the answer. All it has ever done is create hyper-inflation and rapid devaluation of a currency. Obama will be a 1 term president. I am a pretty middle of the road guy and wish the guy the best but what he is going to do is insane. Gold before the year ends will be over 2 grand an ounce… By the end of 2010, 4 grand with 12 percent or more unemployment. I hope I am wrong… ---
**Author:** ![Whitehall](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/whitehall/32/1087_2.png) [@Whitehall](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Whitehall)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 7:21am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/19 "2009-01-24T07:21:25Z")
The only silver lining I see is that other countries will be taught a lesson on how important the US is in the greater scheme of things. Other countries will suffer far worst that the US. Already, global trade is way down. China’s growth is stopped or close to it. Russia pissed off its biggest providers of hard currencies. Iran is running a deficit, even pumping oil. Heard a great old Depression song - “Those Breadline Blues.” Written as a Democratic campaign song (or so it sounds) for the 1932 election, it sounds like some of Obama’s more effusive promises and accusations. I too see high inflation. Now’s a good time to buy a house or other real asset, using fixed rate debt if you can. ---
**Author:** ![chads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2acd7d/32.png) [@chads](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/chads)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234/20 "2009-01-26T04:24:07Z")
A barn raising is fine, with everyone getting together to help. What is not fine is people saying “Oh that rich guy can build my barn for me while I sit over here and do nothing.” The percentage of people who pay no income tax in the U.S. is astounding, as is the percentage of income tax the top 10% of earners pay. [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-bad-is-the-economy-in-your-country/25234.md?page=2)