# How do you think A Woman Should Be Treated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [June 6, 2007, 4:51am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005 "2007-06-06T04:51:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 12:14am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/41 "2007-06-09T00:14:23Z")
Yes… this is 100% true.. all students must move from external structure, rulebooks, to internal structure… what NLP likes to call “unconscious competence” … what is very nice in life is to have many issues that might be frustrating or problematic (for some) to be almost magically self dissolving by immanent expertise… one is so expert one forgets that one is applying that skill… One always learns, masters the smallest little petty emotions that sneak up, I’ve seen Tiger Woods blow a putt, and you could tell 15 seconds before he tapped the ball that he was going to blow it, fight with woman, something negative, flashed across his expression… Two day ago I am adding milk to a large coffee at Starbucks and there’s a sort of not so my type woman, although glorious hair, lugging all this weighty crap in obnoxiously “I Am City Bitch.. Now Please Die” purses, two of them, packed for Everest… she’s trying to pour milk, _tres spazz_ with the two bags, I quip (one should never _say_, one should always quip in these circumstances) “you’ve got too much stuff” and she intones “yeauuuH”, like, how dare you invade my personal royal bubble ? and yes, I got this unstoppable shot of inferiority complex, yes! How dare I ? Big Jerk ! Now go feel stupid about yourself for a minimum of 30 minutes… loser worm! Such an internal dialog I have… So… pulling some guerilla NLP stuff out of my hip pocket, I totally refocus (like grab steering wheel hard) to only external sounds, and make my kinesthetic self sense go super-still, athletic… luckily a song I really like, unluckily sung very neo-girl-popesque, Gimme Shelter… eff, dude, I remember The Day that album was released and Let It Bleed was first on the air… So I merge with Gimme Shelter and redirect from self critical voice maybe 90%, and decide to make pouring milk into coffee a precision event, I am not going to let Ms. Bags blow my focus, so I stand as closely as I decently can with her despising my every Y chromosome with all her fibers… So this little rejection thing transforms into how focused is my concentration… and then pouring with Zen concentration becomes the thing… like, she is beaming me, betcha can’t do that w.o slipping you horny old man, and I’m like, my Zen eats your Kali Energy… take that, and that, and that… ---
**Author:** ![rollercoaster](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/rollercoaster/32/2361_2.png) [@rollercoaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/rollercoaster)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 12:27am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/42 "2007-06-09T00:27:10Z")
ROFL XD love the way you use take that, and that, and that, about pouring milk hilariouse XD ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 2:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/43 "2007-06-09T02:24:42Z")
> [@rollercoaster](#): > > while this isnt 100% what your asking about its still has some relevence. > The only “guru” iv seen that looks to me as a mature person is juggler aka charisma arts. > His method removes the whole “i am the prize” thingumy from the interaction and instead takes a more “im a guy she’s a girl, and im interested in getting to know what kind of person she is”/“they like us becouse we like them” approach. > > And while it sounds like its mainly to find ltr’s its just as effective for one night’ers in nightclubs as long as you can hear what the girl says and talk loud enough for her to hear you. > > (btw im no master at this, in fact iv only just started studieng it, iv just seen it work enough times to know that it.. does work) Maybe take a look at Lance Mason, Sean (Pickup 101 - google “make girls smile” and see [approachanxiety.com](http://approachanxiety.com) for their blogs), Sebastian (from theapproach), Woodhaven and the VAC model. > [@](#): > > so instead of doing magic tricks and offending her, you show yourself and your, your strengths and weaknesses in a way so she feels comfortable enough to open up to you and tell you about her self. > in sumery, its actually more a way of communicating with people then a seduction method, you can get deep 2way respectfull friendships, and sex/relationship is really just a possible bonus. I think it’s also a question of horses for courses. The way you interact with an ADD party girl on Sunset Strip is going to be different from how you talk to an accomplished woman at a sleek private members club in New York or London. BTW Pickup101 have an awesome approach to deep rapport that has some commonalities with the method acting technique for projecting intense emotions. > [@](#): > > I think you should treat women with repsect, though theire natural way of being treated is slightly below men, we should in our more (or less… depending on what part of the civilization you choose to look at, atleast our forfathers werent poluting at the rate we are) > civilised be able to treat eachother with respect without recieving resent in return, though that is what many of the guru’s teach us will happen, and its sadly also happened to me a few times, but iv also seen that the opposit is possible. Language can be a funny thing… Respect/Disrespect isn’t an axis that seems all that germane to picking up girls and managing relationships with them. (One might choose to adopt an initial stance of respect towards all people, but that would be driven by other motivations and ethics). ---
**Author:** ![Scaro](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/scaro/32/2439_2.png) [@Scaro](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Scaro)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2007, 2:37am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/44 "2007-06-09T02:37:10Z")
Just a quick add, Woodhaven seems to have dropped the whole nick thing and is just going by his name now, [Dating Tips: DiClassified](http://www.vindicarlo.com/) ---
**Author:** ![charles198026](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@charles198026](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/charles198026)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 2:19pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/45 "2007-06-10T14:19:58Z")
> [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](#): > > It seems you are seeking validation for the way you chose to live your life. > > Since you affirm that you like to treat women with respect, and demonstrate that you do not extend respect or gentlemanly conduct to men, perhaps you would get more validation in the women’s forum. I extend such conduct to men when they extend it to me. I have learned the hard way that there are a lot of guys who instead of giving you good advice, or sayin it the right way at the start need to be told you cannot walk all over me. I’m getting some helpful viewpoints from talking about this with y’all and thank you for that. What I wanted to do was get mostly a male prospective to both find something new and if chivalry was possibly dieing like all the men’s magazines are hinting at. I’m no Galahad but I do believe I have something to offer, and it is frustrating to see jerks succeed where I am apparently failing at. While I can never truly get away from the nice guy qualities, and be a jerk I am now debating based off of what you have told me if I have tried to be too nice. With some girls I start to flirt or make a move, but I always pull in the reins because I want more than just sex. A number of guys at work say I should have treated this one girl like I don’t care about her and I have heard this particular description before. The hard part seems to be finding that happy medium where I don’t go to far either way, but find the balance that seeing in some posts here. ---
**Author:** ![charles198026](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@charles198026](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/charles198026)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 2:32pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/46 "2007-06-10T14:32:05Z")
Just read the dewussified post that was suggested to me and I find it makes total sense. My apologizes if the title at first glance turned me off. ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 2:45pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/47 "2007-06-10T14:45:36Z")
> [@charles198026](#): > > With some girls I start to flirt or make a move, but I always pull in the reins because I want more than just sex. A number of guys at work say I should have treated this one girl like I don’t care about her and I have heard this particular description before. > > The hard part seems to be finding that happy medium where I don’t go to far either way, but find the balance that seeing in some posts here. If you care too much (or show it too much) at the start it doesn’t feel natural to her… she may back off as a result. Also it can happen the other way and you can notice it yourself.. strange to be on the other side but it happens… It’s a balance you can learn. I’ve learnt and am still learning it… so good luck and take care. You can do it. ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 3:26pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/48 "2007-06-10T15:26:30Z")
What is everyone’s idea on the famous first kiss? When to try to kiss…? All insights are appreciated! After you have held hands… which signals do you need to notice.. which are indicating she wants to be kissed. I’ve got no problem to go ahead and kiss a woman. I don’t want to appear like I’m taking ages (too many dates) to do it and I don’t want her to think I’m just interested in sex. So hence the question… cultures (usa/europe/elsewhere) may be different, but essentially much remains the same I guess… ---
**Author:** ![rollercoaster](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/rollercoaster/32/2361_2.png) [@rollercoaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/rollercoaster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 3:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/49 "2007-06-10T15:36:30Z")
well, having never made a succesfull first kiss, i guess my oppinion doesnt count very high ^^ both girls that iv kissed were the ones to start the first kiss thing. But having studied a bit of TG id say there are different ways to do it, if she is comfortable with you sitting playing with her hair. (deangelo) if you say somthing like: “i really want to kiss you right now but i cant say that becouse iv just met you” or somthing similar ( SOI ) and she still sticks around, you should be able to pull it off (juggler) i know other things, but im not used to this kind of heat, and my brain is overheating at the moment so i cant think straigt ^^ ---
**Author:** ![Scaro](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/scaro/32/2439_2.png) [@Scaro](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Scaro)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 4:05pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/50 "2007-06-10T16:05:07Z")
> [@charles198026](#): > > I extend such conduct to men when they extend it to me. I have learned the hard way that there are a lot of guys who instead of giving you good advice, or sayin it the right way at the start need to be told you cannot walk all over me. Ah, first day in prison mentality: “okay gonna punch someone out the first day I’m in jail so nobody messes with me” 😛 Probably not the best approach for making actual friends tho. > [@](#): > > What I wanted to do was get mostly a male prospective to both find something new and if chivalry was possibly dieing like all the men’s magazines are hinting at. Chivalry is dead, it was women that killed it. Going in a very David Deangelo perspective, being chivalrous is being put in the Provider category, and post babyboomer, being the Provider is the worst possible thing in the world, despite the fact that all of society lies and tells you to be a Provider. Just think of Valentines day, where every year they point out that men spend at least 3 times more than women for that hallmark holiday. Society tells you, be the Provider, buy random shit for women to prove you are worthy of them, and please try to ignore the fact that if we didn’t brainwash guys with marketing, corporations wouldn’t make as much money off guys trying to be Providers. Seriously, if the community ever went mainstream to correct today’s rampant nonsense, companies like “a diamond is forever” debeers would be put out of business. > [@](#): > > With some girls I start to flirt or make a move, but I always pull in the reins because I want more than just sex. Sex is no big deal. I’m pretty sure I need to repeat that so: Sex is no big deal. Sex is no big deal. Sex is no big deal. Sex is no big deal. Sex is no big deal. Sex is no big deal. Sex is natural, sex is normal. Sex is no big deal. If you want “more than just sex” you need to realize: Sex is no big deal. Nice guy brainwashing makes sex out to be a big thing, it is not. If you want “more than just sex” realize that sex is not an endpoint like you’ve thought, and realize it’s just another level of progression/escalation. There are many in the community that say if you want a long term relationship, never wait, never put off sex to “prove” you want more than just sex. Why? Well I have found a definite element in truth to the fact that before sex a woman is trying to find reasons to not have sex, and after sex a woman is looking for reasons why she slept with you. Ever overhear a woman talk about you? A lot of the time women can’t say “i’m really attracted to him” (might make her sound slutty) so she says “he’s just so funny.” Which confused me for quite a while since I am NOT funny. Think 3 levels below Carrot Top. > [@](#): > > A number of guys at work say I should have treated this one girl like I don’t care about her and I have heard this particular description before. The fact is, this really is good advice. It’s all in the interpretation. This is why, particularly early on in the road to nice guy syndrome recovery you should always be dating other women. Nice guy doesn’t go on that many dates, he goes on a date, he invests WAY too much into that date and chick runs away creeped out. Nice guy may not think he did anything wrong (and if he actually read those horrid relationship books aimed at women that say to do that he would be pretty frustrated.) Nice guy may not realize all the wrong things he’s doing (like leaning in - evil evil women’s relationship books) but the chick instantly notices. Fact is, you really don’t know much of anything about her, so doing everything you can to show you care REALLY IS creepy. On the other hand, guy goes on a date with other dates lined up will act differently on the date. He can be relaxed, he won’t worry “man I hope I don’t mess this up.” He can go in just focused on having fun. Yes, compared to the first guy, this guy really doesn’t care that much about a chick he just started dating. And thus, he is far more successful. ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 4:06pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/51 "2007-06-10T16:06:21Z")
> [@rollercoaster](#): > > But having studied a bit of TG id say there are different ways to do it, > if she is comfortable with you sitting playing with her hair. (deangelo) > > if you say somthing like: “i really want to kiss you right now but i cant say that becouse iv just met you” or somthing similar ( SOI ) and she still sticks around, you should be able to pull it off (juggler) In one case I took a month then brought up the subject after a romantic movie, did the playing with hair, smelling hair thing in fact.. that went well actually. In another case with turn up the heat, on our second date I fondled her hair, smelling it and went for the kiss, she didn’t talk… turns out I shocked her completely.. anyway I’m not up to dating a person who gets _that_ shocked by a kiss, sorry! Perhaps it was the turn up the heat but I’m thinking it just accelerated her inner issues which she needed to deal with. My kiss was just a brief touch of the lips for a couple of seconds, nothing more, no tongue at all. I think incorporating the juggler idea may help in case the person has issues you don’t know about. Saying it in a playful way may be the best way not to spoil the moment… ---
**Author:** ![Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gone_with_the_wind/32/2227_2.png) [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gone_with_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 7:58pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/52 "2007-06-10T19:58:00Z")
> [@charles198026](#): > > I extend such conduct to men when they extend it to me. I have learned the hard way that there are a lot of guys who instead of giving you good advice, or sayin it the right way at the start need to be told you cannot walk all over me. > > I’m getting some helpful viewpoints from talking about this with y’all and thank you for that. What I wanted to do was get mostly a male prospective to both find something new and if chivalry was possibly dieing like all the men’s magazines are hinting at. > > I’m no Galahad but I do believe I have something to offer, and it is frustrating to see jerks succeed where I am apparently failing at. While I can never truly get away from the nice guy qualities, and be a jerk I am now debating based off of what you have told me if I have tried to be too nice. > > With some girls I start to flirt or make a move, but I always pull in the reins because I want more than just sex. A number of guys at work say I should have treated this one girl like I don’t care about her and I have heard this particular description before. > > The hard part seems to be finding that happy medium where I don’t go to far either way, but find the balance that seeing in some posts here. Welcome, Charles. I’m glad you’re here. There are a variety of viewpoints here and perhaps some will be of some use to you. You are not the only one that wrestles with goals and how to achieve them. It is a balance sometimes, achieving what you want and being who you want to be. The fact that you are seeking a balance says good things about your character. Many years ago, young and enthusiastic about the martial arts, I moved to a new town and offered to teach for free. I printed up posters at my expense, and posted them around town. There was little interest expressed. One fellow did contact me, made an appointment, and then stood me up. I remember standing alone in a solitary field that morning. In later years many people paid for the instruction no one would accept for free. It taught me a little about what people value. It is not just women. You might find that you could indeed be successful being a jerk, but would not like yourself very well. That is indeed a heavy price to pay. However, being a jerk is not the only way to let people percieve your value. We are all here learning together. I wish you skill on your path. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 8:35pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/53 "2007-06-10T20:35:08Z")
> [@Phoenix](#): > > What is everyone’s idea on the famous first kiss? > > When to try to kiss…? All insights are appreciated! > > After you have held hands… which signals do you need to notice.. which are indicating she wants to be kissed. > > I’ve got no problem to go ahead and kiss a woman. I don’t want to appear like I’m taking ages (too many dates) to do it and I don’t want her to think I’m just interested in sex. So hence the question… cultures (usa/europe/elsewhere) may be different, but essentially much remains the same I guess… I recommend not touching her at all (a handshake is okay) until right at the end of the date. Then you can wait for that that awkward moment at the end of the date as you are about to part. Just kidding. Look up “kino escalation ladder” on google. You should touch her for the first time a few seconds after meeting her and gradually escalate the intimacy of the touch over the time you spend together. Then eventually the first kiss will just flow naturally from the situation - you won’t have any doubts. Become a guy who naturally touches people (men and women) in a non-creepy way. You’ll make mistakes when you first start trying to do this and it will be uncomfortable at times - just give yourself permission to fail. Eventually it will be smooth. This may not work if it would come across as pretentious where you are, but kissing women on both cheeks as a greeting is a good habit to get into. (All women - not just ones you like 😉 It also encourages them to get a good whiff of your mones. Also look up “triangular gazing kiss” - triangular gazing is what women do naturally when they want to be kissed and you can do the same. If you want a routine for it (which may be helpful initially) look up “Mystery’s Two-part Kiss routine”. Something like “Would you like to kiss me?” Yes = go ahead. Maybe = “Lets find out” + go ahead. No = “I didn’t say you could. It just looked like you had something on your mind”. I’ve never used this, but some people seem to like it. By the way, I have never lost a girl from trying to kiss her too early (though maybe some from trying to do it in a clumsy way). When I was younger, I lost many from not kissing her soon enough. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 8:55pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/54 "2007-06-10T20:55:27Z")
Courtly Love - more sexual than you might think From the wikipedia entry Courtly love saw a **woman as an ennobling spiritual and moral force, a view that was in opposition to ecclesiastical sexual attitudes. Rather than being critical of romantic and sexual love as sinful, the poets praised it as the highest good.** [Marriage](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage) had been declared a [sacrament](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrament) of the Church, at the [Fourth Lateran Council](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Lateran_Council), [1215](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1215), and within Christian marriage, the only purpose was [procreation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procreation) with any sex beyond that purpose seen as non-pious. The ideal state of a Christian was [celibacy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celibacy), even in marriage. By the beginning of the [13th century](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_century) the ideas of courtly tradition were condemned by the church as being [heretical](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heresy). The church channeled many of these energies into the [cult of the Virgin](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blessed_Virgin_Mary); it is not a coincidence that the cult of the [Virgin Mary](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary%2C_the_mother_of_Jesus) began in the 12th century as a counter to the secular, courtly and lustful views of women. [Francis of Assisi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_of_Assisi) called poverty “his Lady”. … A point of ongoing controversy about courtly love is to what extent it was sexual. **All courtly love was erotic to some degree—the troubadours speak of the physical beauty of their ladies and the feelings and desires the ladies rouse in them** —and not purely [platonic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platonic_love); however, it is unclear what a poet should do—live a life of perpetual desire channeling his energies to higher ends, or physically consummate. Scholars have seen it both ways. [Denis de Rougemont](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_de_Rougemont) said that the troubadours were influenced by [Cathar](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathar) doctrines which rejected the pleasures of the flesh and that they were metaphorically addressing the spirit and soul of their ladies.[7] ([Courtly love - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtly_love#_note-5)) [Edmund Reiss](http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Edmund_Reiss&action=edit) claimed it was also a spiritual love, but a love that had more in common with Christian love, or _[caritas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caritas)_.[8] ([Courtly love - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtly_love#_note-6)) On the other hand, scholars such as [Mosché Lazar](http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mosch%C3%A9_Lazar&action=edit) claim it was adulterous sexual love with physical possession of the lady the desired end.[9] ([Courtly love - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtly_love#_note-7)) ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 9:11pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/55 "2007-06-10T21:11:47Z")
> [@smn1234](#): > > and here’s my reply… ive heard this from 2 or 3 HBs I’ve clubbed with… I’ve candidly asked what kind of guy they want and received the following: a jerk for a one-nighter/hook-up but a nice guy for a relationship.. neither of which should be a limp noodle > > … these were in club settings and the girls were intoxicated but seems valid You don’t need to change how you are as a person to become a jerk if hook-ups are what you seek. But you might need to find a way to tap into a part of you that gives a woman in a club environment the emotional stimulation she is looking for. Tacitus’s discussion below applies here. Balanced, developed personalities are able to channel different archetypes in different situations according to what is appropriate (just as with the saying about the ideal woman being a lady in the drawing room and a whore in bed, jerk and nice guy are two male archetypes). Healthy people don’t need to get stuck in one mode. (when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail 😉 > [@Where to go to meet women?](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/where-to-go-to-meet-women/479/58): > > Not bad… some of them… I bought a handfull for a test drive, and I have 4 on order at the moment, don’t want to overlook a goodie because a couple weren’t so great… Same idea as Glauberman, not as sophisticated in his use of Ericksonian story… Like Idries Shah, there never was another Erickson… having done a seminar with his protege, Steven Gilligan… and a lot directly with John Grinder… each got part of the Erickson magic, nobody seems to have gotten to the essential root of his skill… I be… > [@tacitus](#): > > On the other hand, if the unconscious mind is properly awakened and allowed to reach its potential as a partner with the conscious mind, it can take on a multitude of archetype personalities (for you Jungian PUAs)… from the Playful Child to the Wise Elder, and turn you on to the best things life has to offer, in the best ways, at the right times, to the right degree (this comes from Aristotle, btw, and restated by Glauberman on each of his tapes, a bit differently), and most important, for the right reasons… That said, I thought you might like this article. [Dad or cad is woman's choice](http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/12/02/1070351579826.htmlDeveloping) a flexible repertoire of behavioural flexibility is t [Dad or cad is woman’s choice - www.theage.com.au](http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/12/02/1070351579826.html) Sir Walter Scott was an author, not an evolutionary theorist. He wrote 40 years before Charles Darwin described the process of evolution - and well over a century before scientists began to apply principles of natural selection to the study of human nature. Yet Scott, a 19th-century writer, apparently shared with modern evolutionary scientists the notion that men tend to follow two basic mating strategies. The new research is part of the fledgling field of Darwinian literary studies, in which scholars try to draw connections between literature and evolutionary science. According to a new study, Scott’s dark heroes (rebellious and promiscuous) and his proper heroes (law-abiding and monogamous) reflect the two types of men that scientists recognise by the kinds of relationships they have with women: cads and dads. In the study, published in the journal Human Nature, 257 women in college were asked to read from Scott’s novels. Each read a paragraph describing a dark hero and one describing a proper hero. Then they were asked which type of man they would prefer for a relationship. As predicted by the cad-dad theory of human mating, the women preferred the proper heroes for long-term unions. When asked which character they would like to see their future daughters choose, they also selected proper heroes. But asked who appealed to them most for short-term affairs, the women turned to the dark heroes - the handsome, passionate, daring cads. In theory, the cad approach enables a man to father many children, while the dad approach ensures that the children a man has will thrive. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/56 "2007-06-10T21:48:39Z")
warm dominance nice guy -\> wannabe jerk -\> man warm dominance fits very well with A314 I wish I had read the below when I was younger… [Oracle of Sweden: Warm Alpha Behavior](http://www.oracle-of-sweden.com/2007/01/behavior-warm-alpha.html) … We have already been mentioning the concept of being – or at least behaving as – an alpha male. As the alpha male is the leader of his group when studying social animals, it might make sense to think that you should impose your dominance over other males in front of girls. And in a sense this is correct, but let’s not jump to conclusions too fast here. Being macho isn’t going to work to your favor. Showing anger or being the though guy who doesn’t smile and won’t talk to other guys isn’t what this is about. In fact, those behaviors will not work to your advantage. To understand why this is, we need to add another dimension to our understanding of behaviors: besides from being alpha, you need to be warm. The opposite is – intuitively enough – cold behavior. Being warm means that you embrace the success of other people, and you give them the credit (you think) they deserve. Speaking of giving credit, these concepts and its terminology comes from my good friend QBall, one of the best members of the Brisbane Lair of seduction. The perhaps best example of this difference is when you’ve just gotten yourself a gorgeous girl – you know she is, and your friends should too. Now if you have good friends, they’ll give you props for having such success, understanding that you are very lucky now and would like their support. After all, they are some of the people that are closest to you. Sadly enough, not all people are like that. As you may have noticed, some of those who you would call friends aren’t actually giving you props for your successes, instead, they are telling you that she is not hot enough, or not good enough in some other way. They might even tell you that she isn’t their type of girl, nothing they would go for, not a girl of their caliber because they are more picky than you are, etc. Of course, their taste has nothing to do with this – after all, it’s your girl, not theirs, so the only thing that counts is your happiness, not theirs. Why on earth then are they belittling you? There is certainly a conscious aspect of them that is belittling you, because at the very least they are being inconsiderate of your feelings. The true nature they reveal by doing this lies in jealousy; they are jealous of what you have, and jealousy can only arise because they are comparing themselves to you. They are constantly in silent competition with you, measuring their own success against yours. Or actually, measuring your success against theirs: taking this one step further, we may note that they are the ones who are competing against you and not the other way around. This is because they envy you but you don’t envy them. In other words, you have more success than they do, and they want that part of your life. Just like no professional tennis player would compare his skills against some layman, no ladies man would compare his success against some clueless chump. Although most people don’t give this level of analysis to cold behaviors, they intuitively understand that it comes from jealousy and envy. And everybody knows that the subject of envy is of lower value than its object. To conclude, cold behavior is bad because it entails low value. It takes a lot to give other people credit for their success, especially when they have achieved something great. But if you can give other people the credit they deserve, and perhaps even expect from you, not only will they appreciate you more, the people around you will automatically assume that you are of high value. This is because the ones that validate other people for their successes are the ones who are already happy with themselves and don’t feel that they lose their value by acknowledging other people’s value. Here are some typical cold behaviors: Never or rarely smiling. Having a stone face when talking to other people, guys included. Complaining a lot about various stuff in their lives. Not laughing or having fun when everyone else is. Not giving props or credit when it’s suitable/expected. The reason why people behave coldly is because they refuse to give away value, feeling that they should be the ones receiving all the attention and value. Let us call the opposite to alpha behavior beta behavior. Now that we have a distinction between cold and warm behavior, we have four different extremes: Cold beta: loser type guys with no success that dislike pretty much everybody that doesn’t share their misery. They come across as annoying guys with a lot of negative thinking. Warm beta: provider type guys that aspire to become as successful as the successful people around them. They come across as nice guys with a big heart, but not attractive. Cold alpha: macho type guys that don’t take shit from others but won’t give other guys any approval or acknowledge their alphaness. They are often perceived as insecure, being “hard on the outside but soft on the inside.” They are sometimes good enough for girls to sleep with (being lover type), but they are not considered a good catch. Warm alpha: successful guys that spread good emotions where ever they go. They take out the best of everybody, and people can improve by just hanging around them. Let’s look at an example of how these different types of people would act in a situation where there’s 3 girls and another guy competing with you for the same girl in a club. Assume he is not a friend of theirs and he is fairly good. Depending on what type of person you are the following could happen: Cold beta: you give up and leave. Warm beta: you talk to him as well as the girls, and would leave him alone if you got the girl and keep talking to the others. Cold alpha: you become aggressive towards him, trying to display your alpha male status over him in an obvious way. Warm alpha: you steal the girls attention by being more fun and interesting, are always the one guiding the conversational topics (holding the frame), displaying your alpha male status in a subtle way. This is only an example to give you a feeling for the different types of behavior; if it was obvious that the girls didn’t like the other guy and he is not good you could actually benefit from letting him keep working on his bad frame, until the girls get bored and then take over. You want to be the warm alpha; nothing else is good enough. This is not something that should take time to improve, you can start working on warm behavior and alpha behavior right now, at this very moment. Whenever you get this feeling of envy or jealousy towards any of your friends, realize that this is a behavioral pattern that you need to change, and do it right away by giving away that compliment they deserve! You’ll be surprised to see that you won’t actually feel worse by doing so, and they will certainly feel better. Posted by Oracle at 11:53 AM 3 comments: Anonymous said… Thanks Oracle. This is key for me. There’s lots of Alpha Behaviour posts on mASF but nothing like this. They all outline Cold Alpha Behaviour traits…. This is new stuff! Implemented 🙂 -intpsanity February 4, 2007 3:55 PM Eddie Gordo said… Oracle, this is the one KEY thing i got off yourself (&odin) in our brief encounters… to include others at evey chance and help a brother out. This goes beyond pu. It takes a REAL sense of self to bypasing one’s egocentricity help your wing at every chance to the close. February 7, 2007 6:20 PM RedStarCZ said… Very nice. Thanks Oracle! May 8, 2007 11:05 AM Post a Comment ---
**Author:** ![charles198026](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@charles198026](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/charles198026)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 8:54pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/57 "2007-06-23T20:54:13Z")
> [@Scaro](#): > > Ah, first day in prison mentality: “okay gonna punch someone out the first day I’m in jail so nobody messes with me” 😛 Probably not the best approach for making actual friends tho. > > Chivalry is dead, it was women that killed it. Going in a very David Deangelo perspective, being chivalrous is being put in the Provider category, and post babyboomer, being the Provider is the worst possible thing in the world, despite the fact that all of society lies and tells you to be a Provider. Just think of Valentines day, where every year they point out that men spend at least 3 times more than women for that hallmark holiday. Society tells you, be the Provider, buy random shit for women to prove you are worthy of them, and please try to ignore the fact that if we didn’t brainwash guys with marketing, corporations wouldn’t make as much money off guys trying to be Providers. Seriously, if the community ever went mainstream to correct today’s rampant nonsense, companies like “a diamond is forever” debeers would be put out of business. > > Sex is no big deal. I’m pretty sure I need to repeat that so: Sex is no big deal. Sex is no big deal. Sex is no big deal. Sex is no big deal. Sex is no big deal. Sex is no big deal. Sex is natural, sex is normal. Sex is no big deal. If you want “more than just sex” you need to realize: Sex is no big deal. Nice guy brainwashing makes sex out to be a big thing, it is not. If you want “more than just sex” realize that sex is not an endpoint like you’ve thought, and realize it’s just another level of progression/escalation. There are many in the community that say if you want a long term relationship, never wait, never put off sex to “prove” you want more than just sex. Why? Well I have found a definite element in truth to the fact that before sex a woman is trying to find reasons to not have sex, and after sex a woman is looking for reasons why she slept with you. > Ever overhear a woman talk about you? A lot of the time women can’t say “i’m really attracted to him” (might make her sound slutty) so she says “he’s just so funny.” Which confused me for quite a while since I am NOT funny. Think 3 levels below Carrot Top. > > The fact is, this really is good advice. It’s all in the interpretation. This is why, particularly early on in the road to nice guy syndrome recovery you should always be dating other women. Nice guy doesn’t go on that many dates, he goes on a date, he invests WAY too much into that date and chick runs away creeped out. Nice guy may not think he did anything wrong (and if he actually read those horrid relationship books aimed at women that say to do that he would be pretty frustrated.) Nice guy may not realize all the wrong things he’s doing (like leaning in - evil evil women’s relationship books) but the chick instantly notices. Fact is, you really don’t know much of anything about her, so doing everything you can to show you care REALLY IS creepy. > > On the other hand, guy goes on a date with other dates lined up will act differently on the date. He can be relaxed, he won’t worry “man I hope I don’t mess this up.” He can go in just focused on having fun. Yes, compared to the first guy, this guy really doesn’t care that much about a chick he just started dating. And thus, he is far more successful. Thanks I will try to take a your advice to heart. I like your descriptions and examples and found them very informative. ---
**Author:** ![linnea1208](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e5b9ba/32.png) [@linnea1208](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/linnea1208)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 12:59am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/58 "2007-06-27T00:59:54Z")
> [@Nunya](#): > > as a woman…i like being treated like a lady. as soon as you stop being a gentleman, you cease to be of any interest to me. and I don’t mean being a wuss - i mean treating me with basic human respect and dignity, and understanding and accepting my boundaries. > > the guys I like the best - don’t kiss my ass. they don’t put up fronts, and they aren’t artificial. They are guys that know how to relate to women, but don’t put women on pedestals. They are able to have conversations about anything and everything, and appreciate a woman who can think. Also - while they won’t take shit off of anyone - they don’t go starting shit either. Oh my gawd, honey - I think you’re my twin sister. What you describe doesn’t even seem too much to ask, does it? ---
**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 4:02am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/59 "2007-06-27T04:02:36Z")
> [@charles198026](#): > > I keep running into this conversation when I talk about my relationships. Apparently pretty much all the guys I know think you should either treat a woman like you don’t care about them, or treat them bad. > > Am I in the total minority because I actually want to try to be a gentleman? First, can I ask why you have to ‘treat a woman’ at all? The mental model I’m projecting from that phrase conjures up walking on eggs and otherwise doing all sorts of things that don’t come naturally. Second, what makes you think the guys you hang out with have insights that are worthy enough to bend your values or behavior? Perhaps you might benefit from dismissing from your mind who these guys are, what their reputations are in the area of romance and relationships, etc., and just looking objectively at the specific advice they offer: is the advice vague handwaving, or specific and feasible? have you seen it work, i.e., does following the advice produce good things (good, meaning, you value the outcomes) that you’ve seen for yourself? Last, I submit that you should make a conscious choice: be a gentleman or don’t be. But if you are going to be a gentleman, realize that gentlemanliness is not defined in terms of behaviors with the opposite sex. A gentleman is a gentleman with everyone, as is a gentlewoman a gentlewoman with everyone. Where ever, with whomever. It’s not a role modification that you turn on when you’re with a female. Originally, the term gentleman simply meant a member of the nobility, someone who did not have to work for a living, of the gentry. But wisdom asserted that gentility was not attached to a person’s economic and life circumstances, but was rather earned by how one responded to such circumstances. (There is an almost certainly apocryphal story that King Richard II replied to a woman who asked him to make her son a gentleman, “I could make him a nobleman but I doubt that even God could make him a gentleman.”) Now, perhaps, gentility is more often seen as related to comprehensive pursuit of the social graces and arts – to be a generous conversationalist, for example, even if not the most brilliant or witty; to lead people from the middle, rather than pushing or pulling them in a particular direction; to be able to make everyone in a social group feel welcome, and comfortable, and valued; to use courtesy and kindness as tools of hospitality and humaneness rather than as weapons of competitive sophistication. In many respects, gentility is, or at least seems to be, hopelessly Beta – unless you have such utter confidence in your own self-worth and value that being rejected dozens or hundreds of times for your gentility is not a bother. It’s a strategy that seeks out an equally genteel partner/mate. Once you dispense with social pretense as an element of gentlemanliness – whether or not one has a coat of arms, or is of a certain class or social rank or entitled or leisured – there are many flavors of aristocratic divisions, none of which are germane to gentility. Especially not chivalry in the classic sense. Leaving such distractions aside, it seems likely you will come down to a few essentials that shine out across cultures: a **Confucian gentleman** or Junzi is an “exemplary person” who cultivates personal ethical and aesthetic responsibility for the benefit of all; the **classical Greek gentleman** pursues _arete_, excellence in all virtues including the quiet virtues of justice and self-restraint and not only strength and courage; the **Victorian gentleman** knows how to navigate gracefully in the complex web of genteel society as well as being able to stand firm in protecting anyone who needs protection. If you study anthropology, you come finally to core cultural concepts of _space and time and hospitality_. The gentleman commits to being hospitable whenever possible; that does not mean he never offends anyone, nor that he never hurts anyone, nor that he must always accord the same level of respect to all. However, he does not offend or hurt or extend less respect _ **unnecessarily** _. Historically, the greatest crime against hospitality is the betrayal of trust: someone who gives the guise of a gentleperson, who offers hospitality to a guest, but then abuses the trust of the guest – rape, robbery, seduction, abandonment after promising safe passage. … ---
**Author:** ![Mohammad\_Shah](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mohammad_shah/32/873_2.png) [@Mohammad\_Shah](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mohammad_Shah)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 4:34am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005/60 "2007-06-27T04:34:55Z")
> [@charles198026](#): > > This is how I believe you should treat a woman: > Don’t lie to them > Don’t cheat > Treat them with respect > Don’t betray her trust if it is given to you > Defend her her honor and good name when it is questioned, if you care for her > > These are some of the principles I live by. In short I believe in doing the honorable thing, and taking resposibility for your actions. Good post, Charles!🙂 Defend her honour even if she’s a stranger. Wished that every man has your principles!🙂 🆒 [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005.md?page=2) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/how-do-you-think-a-woman-should-be-treated/4005.md?page=4)