# In love, need help **URL:** \ **Category:** Introductions - New Users, Say "Hello"!\ **Created:** [January 8, 2013, 12:20pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790 "2013-01-08T12:20:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ATool](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/atool/32/839_2.png) [@ATool](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ATool)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 12:20pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/1 "2013-01-08T12:20:02Z")
Hello everyone! I need your help. tl;dr is situated at the end of the post, feel free to skip to it for less information! I’m 33yo male from Finland. You can call me John. I already know some of you, having read your forum and learning what might save me. Nice to meet you all! Without wanting to sound cocky, I’m fine sporty looking (although I haven’t exercised until recently), very intelligent (and can use my wits), fun, charming (if I want to), independent, great lover etc. Everything your average woman would like in a man. I have no problem getting ladies to like and want me… except the one I want, my true soulmate. This is almost literally killing me. You see, my story of few recent years is like this: Until 29yo, I had lived all of my life single and loving it. I had fun with ladies. Of course I liked some of them, some even a lot, but never actually knew what love feels like. I thought the feeling didn’t exist, at least for me. I never wanted anyone by my side, and never had a long relationship with anyone. It just didn’t feel worth it. I liked my freedom and there was no woman who felt like I could live the rest of my life with. …Until I met the one. I can’t even describe the feeling I first got to know her, and I’m not joking. It felt like she saw right through me, straight to the very center of my soul. Through all the bs and “the mask of personality” almost everyone is wearing, some stronger than others. My “mask” is very strong, but for her it wasn’t. For her my mask didn’t exist. She didn’t even notice it, but reached right to my heart with her eyes and with every word she said. I knew right away she was something very, very special, something I had never known before. With her I could feel free, really be myself and I felt …complete. We live some 50 miles apart and didn’t see each other very often, but talked through SMS and Internet over the following months and got to know each other. (It should be mentioned her mother, the most important person in her life lives in the same town as I do and that’s why she spends so much of her time here.) I couldn’t wait to get home from work and chat with her until it was bedtime. There was nothing I’d rather do than spend time with her, either in person or chatting over the internet. Both of us hate speaking on the phone, so that wasn’t our thing. In addition to that, we had pretty much everything in common. We had similar sense of humor, liked the same movies & TV series, browsed the same sites on the Internet, liked the same everything, our opinions about everything were the same. Only our taste of music was different. After a couple of months things evolved into a more serious kind of relationship. At first she told me she didn’t want to be involved with anyone right then, that she needed time for just herself. I managed to persuade her and so it begun. She had been in relationships practically non-stop since 15yo. She was 25yo at the time and I became her 6th boyfriend. She had ended all the previous relationships herself, due to “not feeling strong enough love” for any of them (I’ll tell you more about this later on.) So, the next 2 years she was my girlfriend. We saw each other every weekend, either I travelled to her or she came to see me. I was always happy when I was with her. I was so happy to spend my time with her, no matter what we did together I enjoyed it. We both liked each others company very much and had great time together. When we didn’t see each other on weekdays, we’d text and chat online every single day. When I think back on that time, I realize it was the best time of my life. Too bad I didn’t understand it at the time. You know how it goes, at first something is awesome. After a while you get used to it and it becomes everyday thing. Only after you lose it, you understand what it really meant… I will never let that happen again. Sometimes she would say she felt empty, but I just shrugged it off thinking it wasn’t that serious. Everything was perfect. Except she never said she loved me. I never said it either, because I didn’t know what it meant. After two years of perfect happiness she came to me one weekend, crying. She said she just couldn’t be with me anymore as she just didn’t feel enough. The breakup process took the whole weekend, us both crying over how wrong it felt, what a waste it was to end a relationship when nothing was wrong. We both agreed everything was just perfect, just as we both liked it and it should be. She just couldn’t feel love. One moment during the breakup process she said “let’s not split up, this is crazy”, to which I replied that it wasn’t worth it to continue if she didn’t feel love. I consider this to be the single greatest mistake of my life. I just didn’t realize just how much she meant to me, and how much I really loved her. Otherwise I would have done anything to get her to stay. I still would do anything to get her back. I asked her if it would make any difference if I had said I loved her, and she replied that I never had to say anything, she had always seen it in me, right from the beginning. She apologized for never being able to say she loved me, and I thanked her for her honesty. It was over. We agreed to stay friends. She felt she was broken when she couldn’t feel love for a perfect man. She told she had only loved two men in her lifetime, and the last time had been seven years ago. She got into therapy to help her with her emotional issues. I told you earlier she had ended all of her relationships because of the same reason. During the next month or two we chatted casually on the internet but didn’t see each other much. I somehow couldn’t feel comfortable around her being just friends. I got back to my “old life”, hitting nightlife and meeting other girls. Soon I realized I didn’t enjoy it anymore. I enjoyed sex with other women, but it was just sex and they were just nice women, nothing special. I missed her, and my special connection with her. I remembered how Ozzy Osbourne described feeling of love in his memoir. He said it felt like you just couldn’t feel complete anymore without the one you love. And that was exactly how I felt. Gradually I understood how much she had meant to me and realized I really had been in love with her the whole awesome 2 years and still was. There was a hole inside of my heart and my soul and it hurt so bad. This is where I made a choice. I know enough psychology to know the “best way to get her back” is to make her want you back. Instead I chose the path of complete openness. We had been completely honest about everything and I chose to continue this, hoping she would appreciate it. I still hope she does. She knows exactly how I feel about her, I know how she feels, what she talks about in therapy, she knows I know everything I’m writing to you now… You get the picture. We had no secrets and I believe we still don’t. Maybe everything is not told, but I have never caught her lying. Everything she has told me has been independently confirmed by someone else. She knows me very well and I know her maybe better than anyone, or at least better than she knows I know her. The only thing she doesn’t know in this post is the very fact that I’m posting here and looking to start a chemical lovefare. I chose to respect the openness and continue being open and honest. I told her about my feelings for her and hoped we’d get back together some day. She said she understood but right now she just had to be by herself, and that she was happier alone. **So, fast forward here to half a year after our breakup.** During that time chat on the net on a few days of the week, few text messages a week, just being friends, but not letting her forget how I feel, without being too intimidating. Sent her a single rose to work on Valentines’ (probably causing few unhappy coworkers to yell their spouses as it was the only flower delivery of the day and it was from a divorcee, lol). She thanked for the flower and said it felt awesome, but that she also felt bad for receiving it, since she felt like a failure for leaving me. Got to know her friends better, they agreed our relationship had seemed perfect. We were a perfect couple, they said. I had to agree on that. Befriended her mother, later we have become good friends. Her mother has told me I was the best of all the men she has ever had. Her mother really likes me and would like to see us back together so much she literally prays for us. I hear I’d be the best possible husband for her, which is something I also have to agree with. **Fast forwarding to 1 year after our breakup.** During that time the occasional text message and internet chat few times a week. A walk & talk once a month or so. Remembering to let her know about my feelings. Always being polite, fun, ending every chat session complimenting her, wishing sweet dreams etc. Being the nicest man I possibly can be. Around our 1 year apart I take her for a surprise hot balloon ride and give her a long love letter, telling her how strongly I feel about her, how much I miss her. why I feel what I feel, ask for another chance. Ask for her to never forget what I was like. Add a rose for her for added drama. I’m becoming a damn drama queen… She thanks for the ride, rose & letter and says she feels miserable because I’m so nice to her and she just can’t.. just can’t. After two weeks she writes me a letter in which she tells how I’m perfect, always know what she wants, how I do things one sees in movies but never believes someone does them for real. That I’m everything she ever wanted and she feels so broken, ashamed, bad for not wanting to be with me. After this letter we talked about everything, and I came to understand how all of her problems with feelings, including love, seem to originate from her difficult childhood, most notably dad dying when she was 2yo and absent mom earning livelihood for the children. Talking with her mother I realize I never understood how much her past affects her now. Spoke about it with her, openly as usual, and this is the stuff she’s going through in her therapy. Her therapist says she needs to “feel what she wants to feel” and “time will tell if I can have a relationship with someone in the future.” She tells me she can’t promise me anything but being my friend. Future will tell everything else, she says. **Fast forwarding to 1y 4m after our breakup.** (2 months ago) I figure that if I really would be ready to give my life for her, I will do just that. I’ll wait until she figures out her feelings, no matter what they will be. I’m not putting my life on hold for her, but I’ll wait for her as long as I can. I write her a 10 page letter, tell her everything I feel like I should say if I died tomorrow. Promise her not to write her anymore. Tell her I have had other relationships, and will have more, but that I’ll wait until she knows herself and what she wants. Tell her that she’s always going to be _the one for me_ and that I’ll _WAIT_ for her as long as I can. Have a talk with her, I ask if there’s any chance if we’ll ever get together again. She answers that “at this moment, I don’t think so.” That felt _so_ _bad_. **Now:** Went to a New Year’s party with a _hot_ FWB (friend with benefits), knowing my loved one was there. Wanted to see what happens, but nothing special happened. Later I heard from her mother she had told her I had a new girlfriend at the party, and that she had been happy for me, not jealous as I had hoped.. Haven’t had any contact since. I don’t want her to feel intimidaded and want to see if she is willing to contact me first. Likely not. I feel like I’m further and further in the friendzone, so taking some distance might be a good idea anyway. I’ve made it very clear to her that I can never be an ordinary friend to her, but right now my options are to be in the friendzone or not having contact at all. She has a strong fear of abandonment, so she’s always trying to keep her ex-bf:s as friends. **Here is my problem:** If I am her friend, she will think of me as a friend. If I don’t keep in touch, she’ll forget how good she feels when she’s with me. This is where I’m hoping [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/) will help. I want to send a message I’m her friend, but never just a friend. In the end I want all of her or nothing. I want to send her a message I’m the only man she ever needs by her side. I’m not her brother or everyday friend. I’m the only boyfriend and future husband she’ll ever want. I want to take good care of her for the rest of my life and be kind and loving man for the rest of her (or mine) life, but sometimes just f\*\*\* her brains out in a non-friend kind of way. Some of her friends say I’m a fool to wait for her (as probably do some of you), including her best female friend. They say this has all happened many times before, and she has never given any of her boyfriends another chance. I like thinking, and I’m good at it. I’ve thought about our relationship and situation in general for hundreds, even thousands of hours and I think there’s hope, even if right now it’s very complicated. The facts giving me hope just are: - I’m the one she thinks was perfect for her in every way, as do her mother and friends. We were a perfect couple. - The breakup was really uncertain, like she would have wanted to continue but just couldn’t. - I know for a fact she is not completely over me (too long story to tell here). I want to make sure she never gets over me. - I was the one she went to therapy for not being able to feel love. - She has never said never, always “for now”, “at this moment” etc. - She needs time. - I genuinely feel I still have a chance. The most importantly of all: _I don’t think I have a choice._ I’m a fool in love, not a moron. I think there are millions of other soulmates for me out there, but this one is so very special I have to do and try everything I can to get her back and true happiness in my life. You see, although I believe there are millions of better girls for me out there, having known so many women and lived for this long, I honesly do not think I have enough lifetime left to find anyone as special and perfect. _I HAVE_ to try everything and anything I can to win this one back to my life. _I_ _HAVE_ to wait and see how this turns out. Of course I’ll take someone else if I find, but I honestly don’t think I ever will. Believe me, I wouldn’t want to be in this situation. I just can’t help the fact that there’s a woman I love, the first and only love of my life. I’d so much want to just continue living as usual, but it’s not possible any more. I know I’ll break bad if it turns out I can’t have her, but that’s something I’ll worry then. Right now I just concentrate in her and getting her back. Any way I can. So… There it is, the situation. ANY comments, suggestions, pheromone tips, questions, anything is more than welcome. I’ve thought I’d keep non-person contact to minimum, while trying to have more time with her in person, like going for a drive, coffee, whatever, and let pheromones do the talking. From all I’ve read, I’m thinking starting with IS to remind her how she feels around me, then slowly adding AMMO to let her know I’m not an ordinary friend, p74 for “boyfriend material”, A314 for increased value, IH for trust and at some point I hope I’ll have use for TUTH. Need advice especially on TUTH, straight from the beginning of pheromone introduction or just when I know she’s ready to be “picked”? I’ll continue to have fun with other girls in the meantime, and in general I’m very interested in studying more about pheromones. I had always thought the only pheromones were the general ones from the sex shop (which don’t seem to do anything) until I found this site. Regardless of if I’m getting The One back, I think I’m going to have very good time studying pheromone world! Thanks for reading and thanks for your help. With your permission, I’d like to copy this message to the advice board as well to get more advice (obviously). **tl;dr** : Can get girls to fall in love, except the one who is the Right One. Beginning chemical lovefare in 3… 2… 1… -AT ---
**Author:** ![BluDrgn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@BluDrgn](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/BluDrgn)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/2 "2013-01-08T14:32:43Z")
Holy fucking intro Batman!! That’s a lot of info, and I’m sure you will qualify for that awesome $25 GC 🙂 I can’t really make any suggestions yet, since I have about 0% experience (waiting on a paycheck screw-up so I can place my first order), but I CAN tell you a few of the things I’ve learned from researching this massive forum. There is a vast amount of information and knowledge on pheromones compiled here in one place, all you have to do is take a look around. Basically mones aren’t magic, they will only enhance what’s already there (and from what I’ve read, they can enhance it quite well!) Unfortunately they can’t make someone love another person. Now with your situation, if this woman really can’t seem to love ANYONE then there are probably some deep-rooted issues there that could possibly take many years of therapy to overcome, if at all. I know that’s not much of a help, but it is what it is. My suggestion is to still be there for her as much as you can, but still get out there and have fun! who knows, you might meet someone even more amazing! Take heed to suggestions from other experienced members here, place an order, and go have fun experimenting with the mones! Good luck, and welcome to the club!! Blue Dragon ---
**Author:** ![ATool](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/atool/32/839_2.png) [@ATool](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ATool)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:52am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/3 "2013-01-09T06:52:43Z")
> [@BluDrgn](#): > > Now with your situation, if this woman really can’t seem to love ANYONE then there are probably some deep-rooted issues there that could possibly take many years of therapy to overcome, if at all. I know that’s not much of a help, but it is what it is. My suggestion is to still be there for her as much as you can, but still get out there and have fun! who knows, you might meet someone even more amazing! Take heed to suggestions from other experienced members here, place an order, and go have fun experimenting with the mones! Thank you for the reply and your comments! I know mones can’t create love, but they certainly can help her to see me differently (better, that is) and feel even more comfortable around me. She still has feelings for me, so maybe mones will help wake them again. I’m currently upgrading myself by other means as well. I’ve quit smoking, hitting the gym and begun meditating again after a long time. Trying to pick up my long lost reading hobby too. Becoming a better person physically and spiritually will help me even if I never get her back. Hopefully she will see me as even more perfect man even without the [pheromone](https://pheromonelabs.com/) lacing, as well as everyone else of course! You’re right about the issues and long wait. Me and her mother talked about this and both agreed it will take years. …So I’ll just wait for years. She’s just too special to give up on. Your suggestion to be there for her is just what I’m planning to do and I will get out and enjoy my freedom while waiting. Im sure some day she’s ready for another relationship. She’s so awesome she could easily get any man she wanted. I just have to make sure I’m the most awesome guy around. I can’t help feeling like she is refusing to accept her feelings for me. It’s hard to explain, but I feel like she denies herself the possibility of us getting back together _just because._ I’m hoping to change that with the help of mones and my upcoming Valentine’s surprise and plea to listen to her heart (to which my mones will be talking). It will take time for her to get her issues solved and to be able to love again, but I’ll be waiting and doing everything I can so she sees me as the man she wants to be with, not just another friend or “brother.” Hoping the best, fearing the worst. -AT ---
**Author:** ![CelticPrince](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/celticprince/32/397_2.png) [@CelticPrince](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/CelticPrince)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/4 "2013-01-09T19:01:46Z")
Atool, I intend to agree with blue Dragon, your girl has a few issues. You are obviously very close, and have some history, so I say yeah — give it your best shot, and if it doesn’t work why would you not want to stay her friend? People going through tough times need true friends. I think you are on the right track regarding -mones, and hold the Tuth in reserve for the right moment if it comes. If after a few months she doesn’t come around, drift back into the friend zone and move on. Just be her friend. ---
**Author:** ![ATool](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/atool/32/839_2.png) [@ATool](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ATool)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/5 "2013-01-09T21:34:35Z")
CelticPrince, thank you for your input! I feel like I can never be just a friend to her. I feel like if I can’t have it all, I want nothing and if I can’t give everything, I won’t give anything. It simply hurts too much. She is like a drug to me. When I’m with her, time flies by and I feel really good and happy, better than with anyone else. However, when it’s time to part and go home alone the withdrawal/hangover hits and I feel just absolutely miserable without her company. Maybe if I get insanely lucky and find someone better, I might be able to be just an ordinary friend to her, but if she won’t “come around” and I don’t find a better girl by my side, I think I just have to say goodbye. I couldn’t stand the pain. If she found someone to love who isn’t me, the pain would be way too much. So, no, I don’t think “friends forever” is possible for me. I really hope the mones will help me. Your timeframe of few months is way too short time though. I think it will be few years before she is ready for another romantic relationship with _anyone_. For that time I’ll try to be the best friend for her, without ever letting her forget how I feel for her. If everything works out, I’ll be the happiest man on earth. Sure hope so. -AT ---
**Author:** ![Kelsey](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/kelsey/32/8468_2.png) [@Kelsey](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Kelsey)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/6 "2013-01-11T14:40:54Z")
Welcome Atool, Wow, this is certainly a mouth full and then some. It is an interesting situation ,not that I haven’t heard it before being on a forum like this and of course everyone swears there situation is like no other or different from the rest. Like you said at first things go really well and then somehow disaster strikes, its up to you at this point to decide how you feel about the person or how important they are and in a lot of times we take the ones we love the most for granted I pray that is works out for you and that you make that huge commitment to make her yours forever **Your gc was issued!** ---
**Author:** ![ATool](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/atool/32/839_2.png) [@ATool](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ATool)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 7:06am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/7 "2013-01-12T07:06:11Z")
Thank you Mickaelia for your kind words and the GC, which has been already well spent on almost full range of consumer products. Thanks to everyone else too, for great welcome to the forum and the massive amount of information I’ve found here! I’m excited to get to try out and experiment with pheromones. The more I read, the more fascinating the world of pheromones seems to be! From what I’ve read, putatives P93 and P96 look like they would work just the magic I need, but unfortunately neither of them are no longer available for purchase. Do you have any plans to get them back for sale? Do you maybe have any other suggestions on putatives and other non-consumer line products that could help me produce the LTR “boyfriend effect”? As for my situation, I’m sure many many people share the same problem. What makes my situation a bit different from the classical breakup & heartache is the fact that instead of just not wanting to be with me, she doesn’t want to be with anyone for now, if ever. It’s a strange situation. On the other hand it gives me hope and some kind of peace of mind to know there may still be a chance. At the same time it hurts and the uncertainty and helplessness is driving me nuts. There’s nothing I can do but wait (and try to cheat love with mones 😉). I wish there would have been some real concrete reason for our breakup, something I could try to fix, and sometimes I wish she would just say “_no, never._” It would be much easier and hurt only once. The waiting is constant hurting, and I know it might end in even greater pain. Waiting is just something I feel I have to do, for myself and for her. She just is worth it and much, much more to me and I hope she appreciates I’m doing it. I wish there was a way to know how this waiting will end, some way to know if I’m waiting for nothing or will I be rewarded… but only God knows that. I can only wait, hope and pray. Thanks for reading my whining. :o -AT ---
**Author:** ![mobocaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mobocaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mobocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 9:15am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/8 "2013-01-12T09:15:06Z")
I’ll suggest that you might want to look at the products associated with reconnection, enhancing status, “fallout” and bonding - Notably IH A314, P74 and although its not an AD product, A1 is certainly up for consideration here. Also products that help make her feel good around you and uplifted in your company. [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/) is good here. as is summer Ammo for a more sexual all-round good feeling. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ATool](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/atool/32/839_2.png) [@ATool](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ATool)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/9 "2013-01-13T01:59:46Z")
Thanks mobocaster! I really value your suggestions and keywords to look for. From all I’ve read here, you really seem to know what you’re talking about! Good to hear I thought of exactly the right products, as DHL is currently working hard to get me all of those mentioned, IH, A314, P74, IS _and_ regular & summer [Ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/)! Now I just need to figure out a strategy of combinations and introduction order for them and try out different combinations without screwing up the too few chances I get to see her. Of course not forgetting finding my sweet spots! Luckily I have some good FWBs for testing. 😉 I’m thinking of first trying out IS and bit of Ammo, later on add P74, A314 and IH to the mix. Any thoughts on this? It’s probably not a too good idea to just use them all together, so finding the best combinations is going to be the next area I’m studying. Luckily this forum has such an impressive amount of experiences and information! -AT ---
**Author:** ![ATool](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/atool/32/839_2.png) [@ATool](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ATool)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 8:58am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/10 "2013-01-14T08:58:11Z")
A quick update: Today I had a talk with her. Looks like I’m soooo friendzoned. ☹ She said for the first time she misses me very much emotionally/spiritually, but physically not… **at all**. I guess that translates to she doesn’t want sex with me. That kind of makes me just a friend / brotherlike to her. I find that unnerving, since she is a very sexual person. Our sex was good while it lasted and I’ve always been told sex with me is great, so quality isn’t the problem, something else is. Could it be our mental connection is so great it prohibits the sexual/physical side of things? Looks like I’m going to start hitting the gym even harder and build my pheromone effort around Ammo and maybe even consider IJ. Any thoughts on this? Will I be ever be able to escape the friendzone even with the help of pheromones? How about suggestions how to make myself look more sexual in her eyes, what should I try using in combination with Ammo? -AT ---
**Author:** ![phertest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@phertest](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/phertest)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 3:47am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/11 "2013-01-15T03:47:04Z")
the only way out is to do BETTER. Make sure you hit the gym, improve your appearance, date other people, get ahead professionally, and NEVER… I repeat… NEVER let her know how much you miss her. Stop talking to her completely and next time you see her you’ll have a killer mone combo, she’ll see how much you’ve changed and get her to chase you a little more. Don’t give her all your attention. She LOVES knowing that you’re suffering without her (its a fact). Thats your only chance - sucks I know, been there done that. ---
**Author:** ![ATool](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/atool/32/839_2.png) [@ATool](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ATool)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/12 "2013-01-19T05:36:20Z")
> [@phertest](#): > > the only way out is to do BETTER. Make sure you hit the gym, improve your appearance, date other people, get ahead professionally, and NEVER… I repeat… NEVER let her know how much you miss her. Stop talking to her completely and next time you see her you’ll have a killer mone combo, she’ll see how much you’ve changed and get her to chase you a little more. Don’t give her all your attention. She LOVES knowing that you’re suffering without her (its a fact). Thats your only chance - sucks I know, been there done that. Thank you for commenting! Bettering myself and increasing my value especially physically is just what I’m planning to do. I even got myself a personal trainer to help me get in better shape as quickly as possible! 😃 Something I never thought I would do! I guess I could not have better motivator. I have to disagree with you on the rest of things, however. Basically you’re right, and what you suggest would be the best strategy to get the girl back in the case of your normal everyday breakup. It’s just basic psychology. I would do exactly that if my love was anyone else, but this case is special. She doesn’t love my suffering, quite the opposite in fact. She is suffering because of my suffering. I can’t distance myself from her, that would just diminish my chances of getting her back. I need to be around her reminding her what I’m like and how good she feels around me. Now that mones are coming into play and giving her their own signals, being physically with her is even more important. Hopefully we’ll get to the her chasing me -phase some day. I actually had a talk with a psychiatrist friend of mine recently about my situation. He agreed with me that the best course to take would be spending as much time with her as possible, not letting her forget me. He said what I’ve done so far, how I’ve handled the situation and how I’ve reacted to her actions is probably the best possible course I could have taken. He also thought it’s possible she loves me more than she realizes, but cannot either recognize her feelings to be love or the feeling simply _feels_ less to her than it really is. There’s no way to be sure of course. Like I said all I can do is wait and see how it is. Right now she is the one doing the distancing and trying to friendzone me. Meanwhile I’m balancing between trying to get to see her as much as possible without making her feel uncomfortable by giving too much attention and pressure. And of course doing all I can not to make being in the friendzone too comfortable for myself and for her. By reminding her of how I feel for her and miss her, I’m keeping myself from falling deeper into the friendzone and actually making _her_ feel bad and suffer, which is kinda what I want right now. I consider the balance between this suffering, comfort I give her and fear of losing my friendship to be important in my quest to get her back. This really isn’t just the usual thing of value of a partner & wanting, but more of a problem with her ability to feel and recognize her feelings. Basically improving myself, making myself feel more sexual and physically attractive (with the help of mones and gym) to her is the most important thing I can actually _do_ right now in addition of spending time with her. DHL brought me my mones yesterday, now I’m trying them out and learning in practice what they can do. Yesterday was my first application and I have to say I was extremely impressed with the results! Although I had read lots and lots of material here, I still couldn’t imagine the effects to be what they were. I’m simply astonished and really glad I found this forum! I thinking of starting a journal of my love & pheromone journey to keep track of what mones do for me. Maybe it would help someone else some day too. -ATool ---
**Author:** ![phertest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@phertest](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/phertest)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 7:19am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/13 "2013-01-19T07:19:00Z")
you’ll see my point of view when you come to your senses… right now, you’re blinded by love. The more you try to stay in her life the more shes going to resist. She left you for another guy, and basically in her world, THAT guy has more value than you. So you’re going to have to use a range of psychological tactics to wean you out of your desperate state. Get on with other girls and your life and YOU do the distancing. Respond nicely, but be indifferent when SHE contacts YOU (IF she does). If you want to automatically raise your value and self esteem try giving A314 combos a go… its known to create a “fallout” effect- a high value male they dont wanna let go, or long term mate - and basically give you some instant value (you’ll have to learn how it works first though and how to act while you’re wearing it). ---
**Author:** ![ATool](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/atool/32/839_2.png) [@ATool](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ATool)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 8:11am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/14 "2013-01-19T08:11:24Z")
> [@phertest](#): > > you’ll see my point of view when you come to your senses… right now, you’re blinded by love. The more you try to stay in her life the more shes going to resist. She left you for another guy, and basically in her world, THAT guy has more value than you. So you’re going to have to use a range of psychological tactics to wean you out of your desperate state. > > Get on with other girls and your life and YOU do the distancing. Respond nicely, but be indifferent when SHE contacts YOU (IF she does). > > If you want to automatically raise your value and self esteem try giving A314 combos a go… its known to create a “fallout” effect- a high value male they dont wanna let go, or long term mate - and basically give you some instant value (you’ll have to learn how it works first though and how to act while you’re wearing it). Thanks again, but I still maintain that our situation is quite special compared to many others. In love, yes, but I don’t consider myself blinded by it. Quite contrary, I feel like I understand our situations very well. While doing my not-so-thought-intensive work I have spent hundreds, even thousands of hours thinking everything over. Too bad love is not something I could just “think open” like many other things in life. But I think I understand pretty well where I am and what to do. That’s why I’m here. Actually, she didn’t leave me for another guy (which you would know by reading my first post). She left me to be alone by herself, which she never has had a chance to experience in her adulthood. She is “trying to find herself”, understand who she is, without anyone else. She does not want another guy for now. It’s not that she hasn’t had offers. She is a real treasure whom many men would like to have for themselves and she could have pretty much anyone she wanted. I know many guys have tried to get her after she left me, but she has rejected them all. In the past she didn’t know how to say “no”, so now she’s learning just that. Lucky for me, but unfortunately I’m a “no” as well. Hopefully I’ll be able to change that. It’s not that she doesn’t miss sex, being a very sexual person, and she has fuckbuddies. I know that. I also have fuckbuddies, and she knows that. I’m currently in a non-serious relationship with another girl and she knows that too. We have no secrets, like I said. She is happy for me for my relationship and fuckbuddies as she knows how I hate being alone. I’m not that happy for her sexual relationships and I’m afraid it might be one of those guys she eventually falls in love with instead of me. The sex itself does not bother me that much, since I know she doesn’t want anything else right now from anyone. She knows my feelings about this too, and that I have never considered sex to be the same thing as loving. No secrets, no lies. No need for them. The only secret I haven’t told her is obviously the fact I’m here and commencing chemical pheromone lovefare! 😉 As for value and A314, that’s what I’m trying to do right now, to raise my value so I would be the #1 choice when she some day may be ready for a relationship. Bigger problem seems to be the fact that I don’t interest her physically any more. I hope mones will help me change that. I bought myself A314, but haven’t tried it yet. I’m planning to begin learning it next week at work and see what happens there! Currently I have IO, IH, IJ, IS, Ammo, Ammo2012, TUTH, P74, A314 which I’m learning to use. P83 and A-1 look very promising for my purposes as well, so they are going to be the next things I study here and probably order soon enough. This forum really is a treasure of knowledge! -ATool ---
**Author:** ![mobocaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mobocaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mobocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/15 "2013-01-19T17:40:36Z")
However “special” this might or might not be, I broadly agree with phertest and think your shrink pal is talking balderdash or at best trying to give you some easement rather than closure or real insight. You need to withdraw from her in the short term at least, or you stand a very good chance of demeaning yourself into all the status of a lovesick orbiter or emotional crutch - neither of which are good for getting back any attraction. She won’t forget you but she may well learn to take you for granted. She may not have another guy lined-up just now but it’s near-certain to me that one of the reasons she’s broken off with you is because she feels the need to explore life further and a new guy (or guys and hell, maybe even girls) are going to come on the scene sooner rather than later - think on how you are going to deal with that in your new orbiter position - its not going to be at any sort of pleasant. Do not become the one she turns to in order to pick-up the pieces after them. That’s about as near as you can get to living hell. Instead, use this time to better yourself, get the hang of your pheros and get some emotional distance from her. Keep any contact polite, to the bare minimum and when you do eventually start seeing her more regularly again, keep that short and to the point as well. Let brevity, a radically repositioned attitude and your new phero sig help you. Chances are she will see you in a whole new light but its going to be some months before that change will start to happen. ---
**Author:** ![CelticPrince](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/celticprince/32/397_2.png) [@CelticPrince](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/CelticPrince)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/16 "2013-01-19T17:56:18Z")
Sorry, ATool, I concur with the boys here, your coming across as too needy. She needs to experience life without you to know what she’s missing. Also sounds like high maintenance to me. Bigtime. But hey, its your gig. I’m sure you will do the right thing. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Styr](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/styr/32/5195_2.png) [@Styr](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Styr)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/17 "2013-01-20T18:29:32Z")
I have a similiar situation I am dealing with myself - with the exception, that I did not get into a “relationship” with the girl, before things went south (or north, as we say here). I too tried to show how much I care, how much I miss her, wrote her a haiku, sent her a rose and a teddy bear, gave her oregami flowers on several occasions. Yes, she was flattered at first, but eventually she became annoyed. It hurt, but I let her be… let her be for the time being, while working out the next battle plan. It was around that time I found this wonderful forum and community, and started experimenting with pheromones - have gotten wonderful results ever since - just that I don’t have such feelings for anybody else. I have, however become way more self confident in regards with women. Thus far backing off has worked relatively well. While she is not knocking on my door, begging to have me, she still messages me occasionally, and is flirty around me - mostly due to the enhancing effects of the pheromones. I haven’t made any moves on her, though, as I am still doing my research to get the best mix for her. A-1 is likely the one I need, and I will make an order soon enough. When I get more concise signals from her, more chatting, then I will make the next move. But I have lived without her for more than a year now, and am 99% certain a few weeks or months more won’t make things any worse. I know it may hurt, but Phertest and Mobocaster are correct. You may believe she is different, you had something special, and so on, and so on. But know what? I felt the same, and it did not serve me in any way. It only makes you go deeper and deeper into the Friendzone spiral of Hell. She may appreciate the attention - I mean which girl would not? But do it constantly, and eventually she will have enough of it. Your best bet is to wait and prepare for your move. I assume you are not stupid, you are a Northerner, afterall. 🙂 Thus it should not be too difficult to sit down and think things through. What might help you: \*I am not a fan of pickup artists and books, but there is one I found useful. “Magic Bullets” - it is available in the vast wilderness of the Internet, if you know how to search for it. - Not saying that you should not pay for it, but if you find it, and find it to be useful, then it would be polite to reward the author. \*As for pheromones: I would go for A-1 (Androstadienone) (you can get it from Liquid Alchemy Labs), IH, IS, P83 (in the 60mcg range), TAC, and perhaps P75(2,5mcg). I should stress out A-1, and P83 especially, as P83 is a good inhibitor (around 60mcg, as said). Then combine with what you have available to yourself and what you know to work best - either from your own experience, or go on some field tests and try out mixes that other people have tried and reported on. \*For the sake of it, you could even experiment with P95. I have gotten very interesting results with it - a lot of giggly girls. 🙂 > [@Androstadienone Guide](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/androstadienone-guide/37668): > > I’ve been thinking about doing this for the longest time but recent events have finally pushed me to do this. In an effort to cut down on the repeated questions, but at the same time encourage more result oriented posts I am making this A-1 guide. Please remember I am NOT a scientist, but merely a tester who is reporting what he’s seen and also info gathered from other fellow members. Table of Contents Section 1: What is A-1? Section 2: What are the effects of A-1? Section 3: When is the bes… > [@The A1 Mix Repository](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/the-a1-mix-repository/42465): > > I saw the thread [Mx297 mix respitory](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/mx297-mix-respitory/39239) and concluded it is very wise to have a thread to discuss one certain product in relation to and mixed with other products. Ofcourse we must not forget K-Train also has an excellent guide out: [Androstadienone Guide](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/androstadienone-guide/37668) Currently I have a bottle of 10ml Androstadienone on the way and I am very curious as to how that [pheromone](https://a314.com/) will work out for me. Androstenone doesn’t seem to work for, or I am doing something wrong with it. Androsterone does seem to work for me,… Be aware, that I have no experience with A-1 myself. So feel free to do your own research - and do so on other girls (you should have no problem with that). In conclusion, the worst thing you can do, is being in contact with this girl. Let her do the talking, if needs be, but don’t approach her, don’t be available for her, let her see you with other girls (with pheromones on - that should be obvious). Let any contact you may have be (seemingly) random, or out of necessity - i.e if you have legitimate business with her. Let her wonder about you, become more of a mystery to her. Perhaps you will be in a position to try again after 6 months. Could be sooner, could be later, but you need to distance yourself. No more 10 pages letters. Heck, not even any three word messages. Did I say no roses? No roses. Go on field tests, prepare for the battle, and win the war. Don’t prepare, and you will end up as dead (figuratively speaking) as all the other men you claim had no success with her. ---
**Author:** ![ATool](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/atool/32/839_2.png) [@ATool](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ATool)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 7:52am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/18 "2013-01-21T07:52:20Z")
Thank you guys, especially Styr for your detailed answer straight from the heart. I hope we both will win our #1s some day! And mobocaster, I really value your experience, expertise and opinions. You’re awesome! I have thought of everything you said and still think the problem is with her emotional issues (and my excessive niceguyness). Having said that, I wish I would have treated her more like a piece of meat when we were together and not like the wonderful treasure she really is. Why do girls always have to fall for jerks and assholes when there are truly caring and good guys around? It just makes no sense. Anyway, I see the concensus of what you are saying and have seen myself orbiting and occasionally annoying her even before I came here. Maybe it really is time to get some real distance, so let’s play this the traditional way, your suggested way. I just hope it’s the right way to go, since failing in getting her back is really not an option. Like I said, 33 years and plenty of girls I’ve known but she’s still the only one. I _can not_ afford losing her. I would not take this suffering I’m taking right now for any other woman I’ve ever known, and I’m not saying this lightly! What mobocaster said about me becoming the consoler after she breaks up with someone else, that’s not going to happen. I agree it would be living hell and I’m not going to go there. If she begins a serious relationship with someone else, I’m gone from her life for good (and she knows that). Well, I would still be around to see what happens, but I sure as hell wouldn’t be the one picking the pieces up, no matter how I feel for her. I have my pride and know my value, even if it doesn’t show from all of this misery I’m writing here… Skyr, I’m going to read the book you suggested. I need to get my shit together anyway and that would be helpful read in more ways than just my primary objective. I just lost my non-serious relationship as she wants to move on to a serious relationship with someone, as we had agreed. It was good while it lasted and I wish her all the best with her new bf, but now I have to go through the trouble of finding a new special close friend. (As a sidenote, her new bf is from your homeland Skyr. Damn you Eesti & way to go, lol! She’s a looker!) * * * Now, let’s say I’m taking this road of not contacting her. This is what would likely follow in near future, please comment: Next 2-3 weeks we will not see each other anyway in person since she’s working and not coming to my town. So the only “avoiding contact” to do would be not being available online and not texting her. If I was online, she would contact me and we would chat (which I love and will miss so much doing.. ☹) She probably wouldn’t contact me by texting either, since she’s taking her own distance now anyway. She might wonder what’s up with my silence and send some trivial SMS, but I doubt even that’s going to happen soon. I was planning something special for Valentines’, but I guess that’s out of the question now. She’s expecting me to do something special, so that’s even more wondering for her why I didn’t. (Damn I feel bad about this already, I had something really special in mind…) Meanwhile in these couple of weeks I’m studying the effects of pheromones on me and trying to find my sweet spots, as well as hitting the gym and trying to get my thoughts off her toward something more productive. After a few weeks she would send me SMS telling she’s coming to my town and asking if I would like to see her, maybe go bowling or something. Do you think I should? I have to introduce my new phero signature at some point anyway. Even if she didn’t ask if I wanted to meet, we might see each other at some point anyway since we have many mutual friends etc. I could also arrange us “accidentally” bumping into each other someplace with help of the aforementioned friends. I love when friends think we should be together and would make a perfect couple, but hate the exception of the one person whose opinion is the only one that counts… hers. She would ask me why I haven’t contacted her in weeks and haven’t been online, which I usually am whenever I’m home. What should I answer? Just say I’ve been keeping distance from her and her friendzone where I don’t want to be? I would have to say something to explain. Another thing is her mother, whom I’ve befriended (and who’s pretty awesome btw!) Should I cut her off as well? She too is totally on my side on this one and likes me perfect son-in-law, but she’ll of course let her know how I’m doing and if we talked about her. On the other hand she’ll tell me how she is doing. You get the picture. Currently we see each other maybe once a week for walk or coffee or something. What should I do about my relationship with her? I feel quite bad about it if I have to “punish” her for the pain her daughter is causing me and make her piece of “the game”… Not to forget she could - and hopefull _will_ be - my future mother-in-law. I wouldn’t want to ruin that relationship. * * * Guys, please help me out on this quest, as this is something I’ve never had to go through before. I can get the girls by using my intelligence and mystique, but I cannot use them to get back a girl who knows everything about me. I haven’t cared for anyone this much and when someone called it quits on me, I’d just shrug and move on without giving it a second thought. With this one I cannot do that. She is The One. If everything eventually turns out peachy and I can live happily ever after with her, I promise to make it worth your while and reward _at least_ one of you helping me with something I know you like! 😃 To you, dear Forum administrators; since this thread is not so much of an introduction any more (if it ever was), please feel free to move it under men’s journals if you think its place is not on this forum! I’ll start a journal soon anyway when I find some time to write down the things I’ve experienced so far. Only a few days of pheromone use under my belt, but the results have been quite amazing! -AT ---
**Author:** ![Styr](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/styr/32/5195_2.png) [@Styr](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Styr)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 8:49am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/19 "2013-01-21T08:49:42Z")
Trust me, I am not a big fan of those Estonians going to Finland either - I would not be surprised, if “Eesti” is a new swearing word in Finland by now. 😃 Surely, I don’t know the guy she is with, but if it is one of those construction workers with an IQ of 47, then you are better off without her anyway. 🙂 Back to the topic: I would not change much in the schedule, if I were you. The main difference should lie in changing your chatting and messaging habits. If she were to chat with you, then do not reply straight away. Be more laconic, tell you are busy with something. Get a new hobby, do something new, something that she would not know of. Or don’t, but make her wonder. If you get her to investigate, then you have already proceeded to step two. As for her mother, you do not need to cut her out. You could tell her, that you are busy and can’t see her every week, but perhaps every second week, in a casual setting. You can even get away by not telling her what it is you are busy with. After all, if she too is exposed to pheromones, then her approval of you will raise even more - and depending on the influence she has over her daughter… I am sure you can continue on this thought pattern. 🙂 Ignore her on the valentines day. No messages, nothing. Don’t even reply to her, if she sends something. Do so the next day, or day after that, if you need to. You do not want to look completely unpolite, afterall. And do not make any excuses as to why you did not reply on the same day. And as you said yourself, organize some accidental “bumping ins” with her. Just enough, so she would be able to smell your new pheromone signature. Just do not be a stalker about it. 🙂)) ---
**Author:** ![Styr](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/styr/32/5195_2.png) [@Styr](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Styr)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 8:58am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790/20 "2013-01-21T08:58:47Z")
As for my girl, the only one I care about - I have already made my plans, and have enlisted the help of one of her friends. By the way, it was because of the pheromones I got to be close with her friend in the first place, and she thinks very highly of me as a result. 🙂 While I can not - would not ask her (or her other friends) to talk nice things about me, she can definitely help with her own speed. She was in fact very fond of us being together when I asked her for help. The thing is, that if you expose her friends to your pheromone signature, they may become more friendly, more interested, and can help your cause. She might seek approval from her friends. So why not try it out? Anyway, enough of offtopic by now. I will post everything in my journal once it comes to any results. 🙂 [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/in-love-need-help/57790.md?page=2)