# Instant Openess or Come Talk To Me **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [June 17, 2007, 10:29pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179 "2007-06-17T22:29:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![qvp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c2a13f/32.png) [@qvp](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/qvp)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 10:29pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/1 "2007-06-17T22:29:24Z")
I can’t decide which to use for social gatherings and events. Which would you recommend? I’ve read threads and [Instant Openness](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/) and CTTM seem to have similar objectives. What do you think? How about instant female magic? should I use it with either IO or CTTM? My end result is to engage in conversation and maybe give them a slight feeling of “wanting to hang around” after the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Gegogi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gegogi/32/1536_2.png) [@Gegogi](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gegogi)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 10:37pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/2 "2007-06-17T22:37:19Z")
You can’t lose with either one. Androstenol promotes verbal and social activities. The names are programatic and enhance marketing. Nevertheless a particular ratio of beta/alpha Androstenol doesn’t merely do what the title suggests as everyone is different. I’ve tried various ratios of beta/alpha Androstenol and the results in a social setting were rather similar–lots of talking and BS. The main diff seems to be when I increase dosage. The more Androstenol, the more motomouth and DIHLs I observed. With that said, I enjoyed CTTM, especially when partnered with PP, NPA or The Edge. Women get the itch and tend to say what’s on their mind. Not always a good thing but keeps things straight forward. ---
**Author:** ![bronzie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@bronzie](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bronzie)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 12:22am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/3 "2007-06-18T00:22:57Z")
> [@Gegogi](#): > > The names are programatic and enhance marketing. yep, the experienced phero users do not take these names very seriously, in fact they are a misrepresentation of what some of these chemicals do. ---
**Author:** ![qvp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c2a13f/32.png) [@qvp](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/qvp)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 3:49am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/4 "2007-06-18T03:49:30Z")
with that, which one would you suggest? ---
**Author:** ![The\_GQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@The\_GQ](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/The_GQ)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 3:59am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/5 "2007-06-18T03:59:54Z")
> [@Gegogi](#): > > You can’t lose with either one. Androstenol promotes verbal and social activities. The names are programatic and enhance marketing. Nevertheless a particular ratio of beta/alpha Androstenol doesn’t merely do what the title suggests as everyone is different. I’ve tried various ratios of beta/alpha Androstenol and the results in a social setting were rather similar–lots of talking and BS. The main diff seems to be when I increase dosage. The more Androstenol, the more motomouth and DIHLs I observed. With that said, I enjoyed CTTM, especially when partnered with PP, NPA or The Edge. Women get the itch and tend to say what’s on their mind. Not always a good thing but keeps things straight forward. Very interesting Gegogi, what about if the nol product is coupled with TUTH, or any other none product not mention? BTW, when you said the more androstenol the more motormouth and DIHL is that for any nol (beta/alpha) or one in particular (alpha or beta used alone, not containing the other part)? ---
**Author:** ![Gegogi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gegogi/32/1536_2.png) [@Gegogi](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gegogi)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 5:49am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/6 "2007-06-18T05:49:03Z")
The more Androstenol the more motomouth, alpha or beta or both. However if you want runaway face lean towards more alpha. Beta sorta encourages slightly more thoughtful conversation. Kinda like oranges to tangerines type of thing. Very similar but different subtles. I don’t use Turn Up The Heat. However I’ve used The Edge, NPA, PP as well as raw chemset androstenone with CTTM, Scent of Eros and raw chemset alpha and beta Androstenol with excellent results. Adding a little friendly/social vibe to the badass sexwax of androstenone is almost always a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Rbt](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/rbt/32/2066_2.png) [@Rbt](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Rbt)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 10:34pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/7 "2007-07-07T22:34:41Z")
The “experimental” P74 looks to be a “let’s hang around and talk” pheromone. It’s a “putative” so it’s still an unknown, but those playing with around 25mcg doses seem to report that kind of effect. I’m currently playing with about 50mcg doses and I think I’m seeing some positive “I wanna hang around you” reactions wit it. You might want to try adding that to your test arsenal. And yes, I’m finding that Alpha-nol [Instant Openness](https://a314.com/product/instant-openness/) really can get those talkers talking and talking and talking… Arrrgggghhhhhhh! ---
**Author:** ![DrSmellThis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b3f665/32.png) [@DrSmellThis](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DrSmellThis)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 11:33pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/8 "2007-07-07T23:33:28Z")
I think people are trying to resist stereotyping these chemicals. I’m still most curious about both chemical’s effect on romance and sexual interaction. Alpha has the more established track record, and a laboratory established effect on a primary sexual hormone (LH). But I can tell you that Beta can be useful in intimate situations, at least. Earlier this week I spent time with a musician who happens to be a cute and sexy 25 year old woman. She’s become a good friend through our musical association. I’ve long had a thing for her (in addition to her girl-next-door beauty she’s smart, creative, good-hearted, open-minded, friendly and supportive) but she has a younger boyfriend in another city. I’m a lot older, unfortunately (though embarrasingly, young women like me romantically/sexually more often than ones my age). I’ve been a gentleman around her and have made no overtures, which I’m a bit proud of, considering she outstanding in so many traits I find personally attactive and appropriate for partnership (except the young age, which I don’t mind except that it adds a fear factor regarding relationship stability. But I digress.). We were going to be rehearsing at my place (for some reason she requested to come to my place for the first time) and I decided to make an “intimacy/comfort/trust” mix with mostly Beta – three sprays of [Instant Honesty](https://a314.com/product/instant-honesty/). I wore a bit more Shine than usual, like three sprays; one of Magic, one of Heat, 10mcg p79, one A314, and I forget about p74 (either none or a half 10mcg spray). That night she revealed to me she was having serious second thoughts about her boyfriend, after only positive comments about their long term relationship before; and revealed personal details about some past drug use (which she had only revealed to one other human – her boyfriend). We also discussed sexual preferences, fantasies and style in some detail, with her commenting on things we shared. We discussed many other topics, including politics and religion. This was not me steering the conversation. A few times she shot me knowing, raised eyebrow, lingering eye contact type looks; as if she was seriously considering me as a potential lover, for the first time. We got only minimal rehearsal done, but had the funnest time I ever had with her. It was just a great conversation. A few beers didn’t hurt. I much prefer this type of interaction over random, superficial socializing. Although there was no increase in physical contact, this is the kind of interaction that, if you have enough of it, would certainly enhance prospects in the bedroom. She also called me the next day to hang out with some friends, which isn’t suprising but was close on the heels of just seeing each other. This makes me want to include beta -Androstenol in all my mixes. Even if I’m giving up some random chatty interactions with strangers (which I don’t really know); this might be a fair trade off. What I’m really after is one on one intimacy, after all. It might be fun to experiment with high dose Beta in “sereotypical alpha situations,” just to see. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gone_with_the_wind/32/2227_2.png) [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gone_with_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 12:54am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/9 "2007-07-08T00:54:08Z")
> [@DrSmellThis](#): > > It might be fun to experiment with high dose Beta in “sereotypical alpha situations,” just to see. Thoughts? I find a 1/1 ratio of alpha to beta nol (as in cttm2, my basecoat mix, or equal sprays of IH and IO) gives pleasing results. Straight alpha or beta nol give distinctive changes in behavior, while the mix seems to open things up a bit without the behavioral wierdities of the straight isomers. The wierd reactions are good for amusement though. Better than watching TV. ---
**Author:** ![DrSmellThis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b3f665/32.png) [@DrSmellThis](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DrSmellThis)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 1:06am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/10 "2007-07-08T01:06:40Z")
> [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](#): > > Straight alpha or beta Androstenol give distinctive changes in behavior, while the mix seems to open things up a bit without the behavioral wierdities of the straight isomers. What kinds of reactions do people get from lots of straight b-nol alone? ---
**Author:** ![Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gone_with_the_wind/32/2227_2.png) [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gone_with_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 2:29am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/11 "2007-07-08T02:29:26Z")
> [@DrSmellThis](#): > > What kinds of reactions do people get from lots of straight b-Androstenol alone? More in-depth, serious conversation. It’s the basis of the IH product. ---
**Author:** ![DrSmellThis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b3f665/32.png) [@DrSmellThis](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DrSmellThis)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 2:57am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/12 "2007-07-08T02:57:12Z")
> [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](#): > > More in-depth, serious conversation. It’s the basis of the Instant Honesty product. Thanks much, but I meant larger doses versus smaller doses. I was aware of the product and it’s typical, stated effects. Is there a difference with larger doses of the beta? I haven’t done enough experimenting with that yet. ---
**Author:** ![Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gone_with_the_wind/32/2227_2.png) [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gone_with_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 3:48am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/13 "2007-07-08T03:48:10Z")
> [@DrSmellThis](#): > > Thanks much, but I meant larger doses versus smaller doses. I was aware of the product and it’s typical, stated effects. Is there a difference with larger doses of the beta? I haven’t done enough experimenting with that yet. I haven’t gone past 3 or 4 sprays of the 2x IH. I’m not sure what the dosages are on that product though. My basecoat mix has 10 mcg/sp of each alpha and beta nol, and I usually use one or two sprays of that. What were you thinking of as a large dose? ---
**Author:** ![Quicksilver](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/quicksilver/32/1328_2.png) [@Quicksilver](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Quicksilver)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 5:40am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/14 "2007-07-08T05:40:03Z")
> [@DrSmellThis](#): > > Thanks much, but I meant larger doses versus smaller doses. I was aware of the product and it’s typical, stated effects. Is there a difference with larger doses of the beta? I haven’t done enough experimenting with that yet. Well, I have a bottle of 4X [Instant Honesty](https://a314.com/product/instant-honesty/), unscented, and I’ll easily spray 4 to 6 sprays on my chest. The result: People riding in a car with me start comparing the skeletons in their closets, basically. I’ve learned all any psychologist ever wanted to know. And surprisingly, everyone’s mature about it and never repeats the other people’s dirt once they leave the car, apparently. Maybe it’s mutually assured destruction. In any case, when someone starts talking about their skeletons, I think, holy crap, there goes good ol’ Instant Honesty!😮 😮 😮 And make a firm resolve to not say a word for the next 3 hours. So much to learn, and so much to lose 😃. Cheers, 🆒 Quicksilver ---
**Author:** ![nbully79](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c68b51/32.png) [@nbully79](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/nbully79)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 8:07pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/15 "2007-07-08T20:07:14Z")
> [@DrSmellThis](#): > > Thanks much, but I meant larger doses versus smaller doses. I was aware of the product and it’s typical, stated effects. Is there a difference with larger doses of the beta? I haven’t done enough experimenting with that yet. There are some earlier posts that mentioned high doses were very effective for meditation, maybe induced soul searching for some folks! ---
**Author:** ![DrSmellThis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b3f665/32.png) [@DrSmellThis](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DrSmellThis)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2007, 2:39am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/16 "2007-07-09T02:39:11Z")
thanks again. Interesting molecule. ---
**Author:** ![sigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@sigma](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/sigma)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2007, 2:48am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/17 "2007-07-09T02:48:29Z")
> [@DrSmellThis](#): > > thanks again. Interesting molecule. Here’s a bit of info on beta-androstenol from a PM I got from Michael (who I’ve really been missing for his expertise!) back in the day. Gives some really good insight on beta-nol: > [@MHarris](#): > > \ > > Instant Honesty is a primarily beta-Androstenol product, so if you’ve used beta-Androstenol it works similarly. It has a slightly lighter mood than straight beta-Androstenol, with RTAS filter suppression and some other tweaks. > > What you’ll find is almost a sense of eternity – people will become fast friends. Even people who’ve known each other a long time have reported feeling closer instantly (see the Instant Honesty threads on the forum from burgerama). > > It seems to remove normal social filters, internal censors, and some of the guards to intimacy. That’s why I added pheromones which further supress mental filters – I feel they’re in perfect harmony with the Beta Androstenol effect. (Another incarnation, “Instant Truth Serum” goes even further in this direction) > > In a way, the effect is sort of spooky… I don’t necessary know if you’d want to use on a very first contact with someone you have a sexual interest in. > > I’m not sure it’s attractive, per se, except for this sort of almost fascination I’ve noticed from younger girls with high Beta Androstenol mixes – early semest college age and, eerily enough, even younger. > > I try not to talk too much about that particlar aspect publicly, since I’m almost certain there must be pedophiles trolling pheromone forums looking for tools to enhance their less than honorable “game”. > > Speaking of game, in terms of something like the mystery method, how they lay things out… I’d say IH would be useful for the comfort building aspect of a relationship. C1 and C2 more than C3. > > In those systems, though, before comfort, there’s Attraction. Unless you’re women that really get off on mental adventures, I wouldn’t say that large amounts of Beta Androstenol is the ticket to attraction. > > So you definitely wouldn’t use it at first… at first, you’ll be cocky and funny, blow hot and cold, and so other things to build attraction. (Alpha Androstenol and Shine are actually excellent for “attraction” _if_ you have good game/good social skills) > > But 60-70% of _effective_ PUA these days is in the comfort phases that come after attraction has been built, and I can assure you IH is useful here. > > If you really want a DEEP effect, try Androstadienone/Instant Female Magic and Honesty – they overlap and enhance one another. > The combination is like an elevator straight down a tunnel into a woman’s soul. > > Outside of attraction, IH is good, of course, whenever you want more honesty. > > Selling or being sold, certain times in work situations, finding yourself with new colleagues, wanting to get to the heart of an elusive situation. There’s many situations where you’d pretty much use it to fulfill the promise of it’s name. > > Dosing wise, as little as 1 spray works, with an initial sweet spot with mor obvious effects around 3. > > At some point in the dosage curve, an area which isn’t completely isolated yet, the effect changes from intimacy and honesty to … something profoundly strange. > > At high dosages, it seems to increase intracranial communication. Some people like very high dosages for mediation, for instance, since you can really get to “know yourself” with the effect. > > I would not recommend driving with very high dosages, as there can be an sort of almost drug-like effect in the higher range. > > After awhile, there does sort of seem to be a permanent or at least semi permanent habituation to the stranger mental effects created by high dosages of the product. ---
**Author:** ![sigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@sigma](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/sigma)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2007, 5:58am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/18 "2007-07-09T05:58:43Z")
> [@DrSmellThis](#): > > thanks again. Interesting molecule. Here’s a bit of info on beta-androstenol from a PM I got from Michael (who I’ve really been missing for his expertise!) back in the day. Gives some really good insight on beta-Androstenol: > [@MHarris](#): > > \ > > Instant Honesty is a primarily beta-Androstenol product, so if you’ve used beta-Androstenol it works similarly. It has a slightly lighter mood than straight beta-Androstenol, with RTAS filter suppression and some other tweaks. > > What you’ll find is almost a sense of eternity – people will become fast friends. Even people who’ve known each other a long time have reported feeling closer instantly (see the Instant Honesty threads on the forum from burgerama). > > It seems to remove normal social filters, internal censors, and some of the guards to intimacy. That’s why I added pheromones which further supress mental filters – I feel they’re in perfect harmony with the Beta Androstenol effect. (Another incarnation, “Instant Truth Serum” goes even further in this direction) > > In a way, the effect is sort of spooky… I don’t necessary know if you’d want to use on a very first contact with someone you have a sexual interest in. > > I’m not sure it’s attractive, per se, except for this sort of almost fascination I’ve noticed from younger girls with high Beta Androstenol mixes > > \ > > Speaking of game, in terms of something like the mystery method, how they lay things out… I’d say Instant Honesty would be useful for the comfort building aspect of a relationship. C1 and C2 more than C3. > > In those systems, though, before comfort, there’s Attraction. Unless you’re women that really get off on mental adventures, I wouldn’t say that large amounts of Beta Androstenol is the ticket to attraction. > > So you definitely wouldn’t use it at first… at first, you’ll be cocky and funny, blow hot and cold, and so other things to build attraction. (Alpha Androstenol and Shine are actually excellent for “attraction” _if_ you have good game/good social skills) > > But 60-70% of _effective_ PUA these days is in the comfort phases that come after attraction has been built, and I can assure you IH is useful here. > > If you really want a DEEP effect, try Androstadienone/Instant Female Magic and Honesty – they overlap and enhance one another. > The combination is like an elevator straight down a tunnel into a woman’s soul. > > Outside of attraction, IH is good, of course, whenever you want more honesty. > > Selling or being sold, certain times in work situations, finding yourself with new colleagues, wanting to get to the heart of an elusive situation. There’s many situations where you’d pretty much use it to fulfill the promise of it’s name. > > Dosing wise, as little as 1 spray works, with an initial sweet spot with mor obvious effects around 3. > > At some point in the dosage curve, an area which isn’t completely isolated yet, the effect changes from intimacy and honesty to … something profoundly strange. > > At high dosages, it seems to increase intracranial communication. Some people like very high dosages for mediation, for instance, since you can really get to “know yourself” with the effect. > > I would not recommend driving with very high dosages, as there can be an sort of almost drug-like effect in the higher range. > > After awhile, there does sort of seem to be a permanent or at least semi permanent habituation to the stranger mental effects created by high dosages of the product. ---
**Author:** ![Gegogi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gegogi/32/1536_2.png) [@Gegogi](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gegogi)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2007, 8:17am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/19 "2007-07-09T08:17:30Z")
Thanks for that PM Sigma. I’m almost outta my chemset beta nol. Should try some IH. The tweaks over straight beta nol are calling me. ---
**Author:** ![Matrixzer0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Matrixzer0](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Matrixzer0)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 2:25pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179/20 "2007-09-03T14:25:41Z")
> [@Gegogi](#): > > You can’t lose with either one. Androstenol promotes verbal and social activities. The names are programatic and enhance marketing. Nevertheless a particular ratio of beta/alpha Androstenol doesn’t merely do what the title suggests as everyone is different. I’ve tried various ratios of beta/alpha Androstenol and the results in a social setting were rather similar–lots of talking and BS. The main diff seems to be when I increase dosage. The more Androstenol, the more motomouth and DIHLs I observed. With that said, I enjoyed CTTM, especially when partnered with PP, NPA or The Edge. Women get the itch and tend to say what’s on their mind. Not always a good thing but keeps things straight forward. Yo Gegogi or anyone with great alpha/beta Androstenol and/or [P74](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p74/) knowledge? Well I have to ask this. When your mixing beta/alpha nols or even using them seperately. Whats in a nutshell the big difference? Because you make it seem they are basically the same but beta can carry the convo a bit more deep than alpha Also I am wondering when used with P74. If beta-nols can make people approach you more or less if not I think I will use alpha with it? Since your very experienced whats your take it? 😃 [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/instant-openess-or-come-talk-to-me/4179.md?page=2)