# Is "Winifred Cutler" really a dirty "word"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Pheromone Theory & Molecules\ **Created:** [October 4, 2005, 10:20pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/is-winifred-cutler-really-a-dirty-word/26 "2005-10-04T22:20:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MHarris](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mharris/32/2107_2.png) [@MHarris](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MHarris)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 10:20pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/is-winifred-cutler-really-a-dirty-word/26/1 "2005-10-04T22:20:09Z")
If you’ve ever thought about Cutler’s formula, which claims to take several months for the full effects to “kick in”, you may not have considered her focus on what may very well be human primer pheromones. Sure, her concentration be a little “weak”, but not all pheromones necessarily have effects that are instantly understandable. There are macro effects that happen over time. Rome wasn’t built in a day, and sometimes pheromonal effects aren’t either. Read the bee pheromone article for an example of primer pheromones in the insect world. If such “simple” creatures are part and parcel of such complex, long cycle pheromonal interactions, why would we be excluded from such long-term effects? Reading about pheromones in the insect world allows you the emotional freedom to step outside yourself and think about this objectively. [http://androticsforum.com/showthread.html?t=27](http://androticsforum.com/showthread.html?t=27) Unlike most people in the pheromone industry, I’m not a big Winifred Cutler “hater”. It’s one form of prejudice I don’t understand. The amount of negative things I’ve read about poor Winifred astounds me. Most written by people who’ve never tried her formula. The truth of the matter is, we’ve had people independently tell us without prompting that they’ve had positive experiences with her formula. So why should I or anybody that works here lie and say they haven’t? In the real world, there’s real positives AND negatives to everything… EVERYTHING. Not just what we produce, or Winifred produces. Not just [pheromone products](https://a314.com/shop/). I mean, everything. One person’s positive can be another person’s negative. Think about cars. A little car would be a nightmare for some, a blessing to another. Vice versa for a large vehicle or a truck. Products are like puzzle pieces - it’s all up to how it fits into your personal puzzle that matters. Truth is, if she makes a good formula that works for a good number of people, then that gives “competitors” something decent to “beat”. I particularly like Daryn’s work at LaCroy. Good formulary from one company leads to better formulary from another. Competition is a healthy thing. Truly healthy competition is a long series of “one upmanship” between companies. It’s actually a form of cooperation, if you think about it. Cooperating to give the end customer the best possible results for his or her money. Sure, there’s tons of companies out there that deserve to be knocked (especially the ones intentionally creating myths and lies about pheromones), but not the harmless ones creating good product. “Good” here, being defined as good for someone, or good for many people. Maybe even perfect for some people. Nothing is perfect for everyone. If you aim to please everybody all of the time, then you’ll please nobody. Not even water is embraced by everyone, as a drink or an experience. For something so “universally loved”, it, too, has it’s detractors. That’s my take on it all, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Futurist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@Futurist](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Futurist)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:32am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/is-winifred-cutler-really-a-dirty-word/26/2 "2005-10-05T02:32:17Z")
I think it’s a shame Dr. Dodd isn’t producing products anymore, that I know about at least. ---
**Author:** ![MHarris](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mharris/32/2107_2.png) [@MHarris](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MHarris)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:46am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/is-winifred-cutler-really-a-dirty-word/26/3 "2005-10-05T02:46:23Z")
> [@Futurist](#): > > I think it’s a shame Dr. Dodd isn’t producing products anymore, that I know about at least. Absolutely right! That is a shame. I like Dodd, too. In fact, while we probably have the biggest collection of human [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/) in North America, we can’t claim the world, because we _know_ Dodd has almost 50 isolated. It’s a shame. Kiotech just burns through investor cash they get through Opex… millions and millions yearly… yet they don’t PRODUCE a heck of a lot of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Futurist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@Futurist](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Futurist)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 1:03am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/is-winifred-cutler-really-a-dirty-word/26/4 "2005-10-06T01:03:50Z")
Millions of dollars spent and all they have is fish pheromones? ---
**Author:** ![MHarris](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mharris/32/2107_2.png) [@MHarris](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MHarris)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 4:22am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/is-winifred-cutler-really-a-dirty-word/26/5 "2005-10-06T04:22:57Z")
> [@Futurist](#): > > Millions of dollars spent and all they have is fish pheromones? If that. They’re not showing many signs of life lately. ---
**Author:** ![SyraBrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@SyraBrian](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SyraBrian)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 8:27pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/is-winifred-cutler-really-a-dirty-word/26/6 "2006-04-02T20:27:07Z")
Back in the day, I had great success with her product. For some reason, I’ve always been under the impression that chemicals in her product increased a man’s testosterone level and then reacted upon that increase. My reasoning didn’t have scientific backing, but that’s the only reason I could think of why it would take so long to take effect. So, what did I do? I stuck it into a [pheromone cologne](https://a314.com/shop/) I had lying around. After doing so, the old cologne, which I had marginal success with, amped up into a super chick magnet cologne. I literally had girls picking up their barstools, walking across the bar and plopping the stool down next to me. However, due to the stiff price, I only bought her product twice. ---
**Author:** ![Socrates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@Socrates](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Socrates)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 8:29am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/is-winifred-cutler-really-a-dirty-word/26/7 "2006-04-04T08:29:40Z")
Syra, what [pheromone cologne](https://a314.com/shop/) did you stick it in? Were you getting sexual or social kind of reactions? I know even A1 can get ‘women plopping the stool down next to me’ so maybe it just made them very comfortable and you very approachable… has anyone else tried putting Athena into a cologne and what kind of results were you getting? Many thanks 😃 Visionary > [@SyraBrian](#): > > So, what did I do? I stuck it into a pheromone cologne I had lying around. After doing so, the old cologne, which I had marginal success with, amped up into a super chick magnet cologne. I literally had girls picking up their barstools, walking across the bar and plopping the stool down next to me. ---
**Author:** ![SyraBrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@SyraBrian](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SyraBrian)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/is-winifred-cutler-really-a-dirty-word/26/8 "2006-04-05T18:44:51Z")
> [@Socrates](#): > > Syra, > > what pheromone cologne did you stick it in? Were you getting sexual or social kind of reactions? I know even A1 can get ‘women plopping the stool down next to me’ so maybe it just made them very comfortable and you very approachable… > > has anyone else tried putting Athena into a cologne and what kind of results were you getting? > > Many thanks 😃 > Visionary I poured the Athena10X into an “orderless” [pheromone cologne](https://a314.com/shop/) called Stealth Bomber. It was produced by Intimate Research. Hits were both social and sexual. Most were quite interesting. Here’s an example of a social hit that happened between myself and an unrequited crush of mine. While we were friends, it was always the type of friendship where she kept me at arm’s length. Mainly because she was well aware of the fact that I had feelings for her. She was a library clerk, and I was always chatting her up. The first day I wore my mix, I chatted her up for a while and then she politely me told her that I shouldn’t be chatting her up at work because her superior was watching. The next time I go in, she waved me over to her station and asks me if it would be okay if I hung around her desk all day. She then proceeds to tell me that she had pretty much spent the day hoping that I would drop by. Ironically, she soon broke off all contact with me. A third party later informed me that she broke contact with me because she simply couldn’t deal with the thought that she felt close to me. In other words, she was a little freaked that she had feelings for such a lowly creature as myself! Wish there was some A314 back then! Sexual hits from strange women included many tush pinches and rather aggressive hugging. ---
**Author:** ![Bunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Bunny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Bunny)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:30pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/is-winifred-cutler-really-a-dirty-word/26/9 "2006-05-22T20:30:22Z")
Err..Dr. George Dodd’s in Mellon, Fife - which is very near to where I live, and I can most definitely assure you he is still actively producing products. I have a somewhat interesting story about this in fact. I am very hooked on his phenomenol “Pherofragrance For Her” and its effects on “The Man,” and go to the base itself to stock up, and because I too had read that HE developed Pheromol Factor, I asked his female assistant about it, and she said, “No, that is in fact a misconception. He developed both the male and female versions of Pherofragrance, and of course the Excite Wipes as well as every non-[pheromone](https://a314.com/shop/)-based scent (TONS of 'em!) you can see here.” Which left me TOTALLY confuzzled… 😕 Ail 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Savages5CB](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/savages5cb/32/2181_2.png) [@Savages5CB](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Savages5CB)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2007, 12:45am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/is-winifred-cutler-really-a-dirty-word/26/10 "2007-08-08T00:45:30Z")
So this Athena10X product I see in magazines all the time actually works? ---
**Author:** ![jvkohl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jvkohl/32/1297_2.png) [@jvkohl](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jvkohl)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2007, 5:22am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/is-winifred-cutler-really-a-dirty-word/26/11 "2007-08-09T05:22:20Z")
Two published reports of results using her undisclosed “pheromones” were subsequently called into question. Here’s what I state in an as yet unpublished manuscript. Also, reports of behavioral change to an undisclosed human “pheromone” that acts as a sex attractant—according to marketing claims–and reviewed in (Cutler and Genovese, 2002) have been dismissed elsewhere (Winman, 2004; Wysocki and Preti, 1998). Disclosure is essential to independent replication, a basic tenet of scientific research, and especially to scientific research on human sexual behavior. It’s not just the non-disclosure that’s the problems, it’s the way the study design and results are presented. So far as I’m concerned, about the worst that can happen to an olfactory researcher is to have other olfactory researchers tell the world (in peer-reviewed journals) that your studies and their results are substandard and therefore unacceptable. Perhaps this is why Winnifred does not attend any olfactory conferences, or publish in journals with reviewers and editors who might better examine her claims, or the claims made by others for her undisclosed product ingredients. Uninformed consumers deserve better than to be led into new areas of research by charlatans who make big bucks scamming them. What may be worse is that people like Winnifred give the topic of [human pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/) a bad rap. It really is inexcusable to not publically disclose ingredients after she said on a television program that her Athena 10:13 contained DHEA. In subsequent programming, she claimed that she could not disclose the ingredients due to a patent pending. Do a patent search on her name to see if you can determine which patent pending she might be thinking about. Obviously, I’ve followed her trail for many years. But I’m willing to listen to anything anyone wants to say in support of her product marketing, other than her product(s) work. There’s not enough science for me in statements like that. James V. Kohl `http://www.pheromones.com` ---
**Author:** ![DrSmellThis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b3f665/32.png) [@DrSmellThis](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/DrSmellThis)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2007, 4:43am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/is-winifred-cutler-really-a-dirty-word/26/12 "2007-08-12T04:43:31Z")
> [@MHarris](#): > > If you’ve ever thought about Cutler’s formula, which claims to take several months for the full effects to “kick in”, you may not have considered her focus on what may very well be human primer pheromones. Sure, her concentration be a little “weak”, but not all pheromones necessarily have effects that are instantly understandable. > > There are macro effects that happen over time. Rome wasn’t built in a day, and sometimes pheromonal effects aren’t either. Read the bee pheromone article for an example of primer pheromones in the insect world. If such “simple” creatures are part and parcel of such complex, long cycle pheromonal interactions, why would we be excluded from such long-term effects? > > Reading about pheromones in the insect world allows you the emotional freedom to step outside yourself and think about this objectively. > > [PheroTalk Pheromone Forum](http://androticsforum.com/showthread.html?t=27) > > Unlike most people in the pheromone industry, I’m not a big Winifred Cutler “hater”. It’s one form of prejudice I don’t understand. The amount of negative things I’ve read about poor Winifred astounds me. Most written by people who’ve never tried her formula. > > The truth of the matter is, we’ve had people independently tell us without prompting that they’ve had positive experiences with her formula. > > So why should I or anybody that works here lie and say they haven’t? > > In the real world, there’s real positives AND negatives to everything… EVERYTHING. Not just what we produce, or Winifred produces. Not just pheromone products. I mean, everything. > > One person’s positive can be another person’s negative. > > Think about cars. > > A little car would be a nightmare for some, a blessing to another. Vice versa for a large vehicle or a truck. Products are like puzzle pieces - it’s all up to how it fits into your personal puzzle that matters. > > Truth is, if she makes a good formula that works for a good number of people, then that gives “competitors” something decent to “beat”. I particularly like Daryn’s work at LaCroy. Good formulary from one company leads to better formulary from another. > > Competition is a healthy thing. Truly healthy competition is a long series of “one upmanship” between companies. It’s actually a form of cooperation, if you think about it. Cooperating to give the end customer the best possible results for his or her money. > > Sure, there’s tons of companies out there that deserve to be knocked (especially the ones intentionally creating myths and lies about pheromones), but not the harmless ones creating good product. “Good” here, being defined as good for someone, or good for many people. Maybe even perfect for some people. > > Nothing is perfect for everyone. If you aim to please everybody all of the time, then you’ll please nobody. Not even water is embraced by everyone, as a drink or an experience. For something so “universally loved”, it, too, has it’s detractors. > > That’s my take on it all, anyway. I have no problem with her product, though I haven’t tried it. But it makes sense it might work, if it’s DHEA like she once stated; and be one more tool in the toolbox. The only thing there is, it’s really cheap to get DHEA in bulk, though we don’t know for sure which variant of the molecule she uses (stabilized DHEA-s, for example, whichis prominent on the human skin). So folks would have to experiment to duplicate the effect. To me it’s easier to take 5mg of DHEA, which I think gives you similar pheromonal results, from my experience with it. So I agree the attacks have been excessive. Some of the most viscious attacks come from folks who have their own mixed agendas. The only legitimacy to the attacks are about Cutler as a scientist, since everything is a secret. But that applies to some extent to the Pherin/Erox gang too. But the products are worth a try. ---
**Author:** ![nbully79](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c68b51/32.png) [@nbully79](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/nbully79)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2007, 9:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/is-winifred-cutler-really-a-dirty-word/26/13 "2007-08-14T21:51:45Z")
> [@Bunny](#): > > I too had read that HE developed Pheromol Factor, I asked his female assistant about it, and she said, “No, that is in fact a misconception. He developed both the male and female versions of Pherofragrance, and of course the Excite Wipes as well as every non-pheromone-based scent (TONS of 'em!) you can see here.” > > Which left me TOTALLY confuzzled… 😕 > > Ail 🙂 So Pheromol Factor is NOT developed by Dr. Dodd. That explains a lot. It was probably developed at his company by someone else working there. No wonder it doesn’t work as good as Xcite wipes or Pherofragrance for most people. ---
**Author:** ![nbully79](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c68b51/32.png) [@nbully79](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/nbully79)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2007, 9:56pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/is-winifred-cutler-really-a-dirty-word/26/14 "2007-08-14T21:56:28Z")
Compounds in Cutler’s Athena formulas Based on her patent she might be using few or all of the compounds listed to try to replicate the pheromone signature of an attractive man or woman depending on the product. **From her patent at** [http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5155045.html](http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5155045.html) …it is theorized that the effective pheromonal component of the axillary secretions may be one or more of the androgen steroids: **androstenol, androstenone, dehydroepiandrosterone, androstadienol, androstadienone, dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHAS), androsterone sulfate (AS),** and natural derivatives thereof…