# Ladies, may I ask for your advice? **URL:** \ **Category:** Women's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [July 24, 2008, 10:06am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189 "2008-07-24T10:06:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![data4](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/data4/32/272_2.png) [@data4](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/data4)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 10:06am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/1 "2008-07-24T10:06:06Z")
I’m going to lay myself bare here (Not literally… stop gawking, Bella! 😃). I’m a terrible foot dragger. I procrastinate. I play scenarios over and over in my head, letting each one end in failure, which prevents me from taking bold steps because I’m scared. Maybe it’s ego. Maybe it’s fear of getting burnt. I don’t know… Let me explain. Last year, my former wife told me she wanted a divorce, and it hit me like a freight train. I loved this woman with all my heart. The only thing I could think about was “How am I gonna fix this?” My very existence was one of trying everything I could possibly do to keep from losing her. I was absolutely devastated, feeling like no matter what, the inevitable was going to happen. I was a walking 20 car pileup. Now, with that in mind… Around August last year, I was assigned to a Special Projects Team at work. We were a crew of about a dozen of the highest skilled technicians in our area sent to a company that was falling waaay behind on a government contract that was subbed out to them by one of our project partners. Essentially, we were sent as a “dream team” to bail them out. One of the people in the team was a girl from a different shift, who I’d never met before. We worked together for most of the time we were on the project, and at first I didn’t notice her. I mean _notice_ as a guy. She was just a co-worker. Besides, I had more weighty relationship issues on my mind that prevented me from being in a state where I could even consider someone else. But then, something happened. We’d talk-- at first, just small talk to break the monotony of the work tasks. Somehow, news of my marital problems trickled her way. As massive a company Boeing is, it has a pretty healthy and efficient grape vine. She’d ask questions, and I’d hesitantly answer. It felt pretty good, actually. She made it obvious that she didn’t mind being an ear if I had something on my mind that was bothering me. Slowly, the wheels of attraction started turning, but I had to keep myself in check. Was I, in my emotionally fragile state, just latching on to the empathy she was showing? I had to keep a safe distance, because all the while, I still wanted my marriage to work. As long as I remained married to my ex-wife, I felt morally obligated to fidelity. I told myself that until the paperwork was filed and ruled over by a judge, I was still her husband and would act accordingly. Call me old fashioned. But still… human emotions are a peculiar thing. I was most definitely attracted to this girl, who I’ve identified as “Sarah” in previous posts (not her real name, but that doesn’t matter), and I was feeling bewildered and confused. Eventually, the project ended and we went back to our regular shifts at our regular workplace. I’d see her at shift change and we’d usually chat for a minute or two, but I went back to focusing on a last ditch effort to fix my marriage. That never panned out, and on Feb 2, the divorce became final. Fresh on what was undoubtedly the worst breakup I’d ever gone through in my life, I purposely shut down in the relationship department. I had to heal and come to terms with what happened. Sure, I did some goofy stuff, as reported in some of my posts in the Men’s forums. Stripclubs, etc. All that was superficial, though. I wasn’t looking for a relationship as much as I was looking to be a “bad boy”. Sowing wild oats, as it were. Soon, though, the sores began to scab over and heal, and while scars remain, I finding that I’m becoming liberated from the emotional garbage of my divorce. I’m starting to be able to look at women in a way that I wasn’t able to since before I got married. I’m finding that the budding and dormant attraction to Sarah has started to blossom (Boy, am I loading this post up with metaphors!). Unfortunately, face to face contact is limited to about 15-20 minutes each day at shift change, since she’s on first shift and I’m on swing. I figured I’d take my time, not rush into anything. We’d hung out at a casino one day a few months back, and I always thought we’d do it again sometime. I’ve wanted to open up to her, let her know how I feel, and see what happens, but I always talked myself out of it on the opportunities that presented themselves. I’m still a bit fragile, perhaps even a little jaded and cynical. I always figured “next time…” Well, now there’s not going to be a next time. Friday is going to be the last day I see her, since I’m being transferred to a new location. I’m basically devastated, but for several reasons. Of course, there’s the rapid, repeated kicking of myself in my ass for not manning up when I should have, but I’m also bummed about the move for other reasons. I’m going into a new environment that doesn’t make use of any of my skills. I’ll be starting from rock bottom, having to learn everything about the job. One of the guys who’s transferring with me and I checked the place out this evening. It’s fucking garbage, if you’ll pardon my language. Dirty, cramped, loud, constantly rushed, and complete polar opposite to what I’m doing now. The whole idea of the transfer has got me feeling like crap, which makes the Sarah situation worse. So… finally getting to the point of this post, I want to talk to her before I go. I want to get it out in the open how I feel, hopefully leaving the door open to be able to get with her some time. I want to do it in such a way that I don’t come off all creepy and/or needy. I’ve got about 10 minutes to make a lasting impression on her, and I want it to be positive. I haven’t the foggiest idea how to pull this off. Any suggestions? If you were in her position, what would you like to hear? What would be “parting words” that would make the prospect of getting together socially in the near future doable? I’m… well, I hate to say this, I’m kinda desperate, here, and that’s the LAST thing I want to project. HELP! -D4 ---
**Author:** ![Takhisis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Takhisis](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Takhisis)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 10:18am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/2 "2008-07-24T10:18:40Z")
First of all, sorry to hear that you’ve had a shabby time in your relationships and that you’re moving to a less favourable work environment. I know how you feel, procrastinating saying things til it’s “too late”. How far away are you leaving? Same town, different area? Different towns? My two cents would be to be honest with her and let her know that you enjoy spending time with her and would love to do it again some time, and set a definite date for it, lest it falls in the “yeah, one day” category. Swap contact details with her if you don’t want to seem in a rush to ask her out but call her soon, at least to let her know how you’re getting on/how she’s getting on. If you can swing it, suggest a goodbye drinks with your soon-to-be-former workmates and invite her along? ---
**Author:** ![jamesbonded](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jamesbonded/32/2090_2.png) [@jamesbonded](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jamesbonded)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 10:18am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/3 "2008-07-24T10:18:42Z")
I am not a lady, can I say? If not, just ignore my post. It is not so much on what you think she wants to hear. I think you should be speaking out your feeling for her. Describe your feeling. Speak out your heart, honestly and openly. Opportunity doesn’t come very often. You may regret for your whole life if you don’t speak out your heart and guessing what would be her respond be should you have spoken out.. If, just if, she doesn’t accept you, at least you have tried and know the answer. Good luck ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 11:10am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/4 "2008-07-24T11:10:14Z")
(((Data))))) We watched you go though all that this past year. First off I want to urge you to work on this setting yourself up to fail thing. Your first instinct is always your best instinct and you need to trust it more. By analyzing everything over and over and letting it end in failure in your mind you release that energy into the world and attract that failure back to you. Believe me I am a witch I know how to play with energy and alot of people do this. Dont imagine failure, imagine success and that is what will come to you. Get the book “the secret” it probably the easiest explanation of “like attracts like”. That being said… > [@](#): > > So… finally getting to the point of this post, I want to talk to her before I go. I want to get it out in the open how I feel, hopefully leaving the door open to be able to get with her some time. I want to do it in such a way that I don’t come off all creepy and/or needy. I’ve got about 10 minutes to make a lasting impression on her, and I want it to be positive. I haven’t the foggiest idea how to pull this off. Any suggestions? If you were in her position, what would you like to hear? What would be “parting words” that would make the prospect of getting together socially in the near future doable? Tell her the truth basically, Tell her that you really valued time spent with her when you were going through your divorce and that one of the things you will miss most is your “friendship” with her and that you would like to see her socially. Exchange numbers and addresses. Then follow though and call her. By using the word friendship your not pushing but letting a relationship blossom naturally. Once you see each other socially you would come on a little stronger to push past the friendship barrier or send a clear message you are looking for more. Remember your new location is just a new opportunity. Believe that its gonna be crap and thats all you will see. Believe its gonna be great and you will make greatness happen. Tish ---
**Author:** ![Bella](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bella/32/1738_2.png) [@Bella](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Bella)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 10:00pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/5 "2008-07-24T22:00:44Z")
I remember the story about Sarah. I think. 🙄 She’s the girl who got a little inebriated at the after work party? Where that jerk tried to c\*ckblock you by telling you she had a boyfriend or that he was her boyfriend? Not sure I have that right. I know you got kicked in the gut by your divorce and I’m so sorry about that, my friend. But it seems you’re interested enough in this girl to want to make a move. You’ve gotta get back on the..ahem…horse sometime. _Now’s_ a good time. What have you really got to lose? Maybe she’ll reject you. So what. It’s better then the “I woulda, coulda, shoulda” senario that’s going to play over and over in your head if ya _don’t_ do it. Ya dun gotta be needy or sloppy about it, just tell her you’d like to see her. Time’s a wastin’. You can do this! OK Desperado…no more excuses…time to saddle up! 😉 And don’t forget your lasso. Bella ---
**Author:** ![Kitten](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/kitten/32/1051_2.png) [@Kitten](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Kitten)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 1:11am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/6 "2008-07-25T01:11:11Z")
Good for you! You are moving in the direction you want to go. My advice is to think less and act more. That has helped me a lot in my life. I tend to overthink things so much that it uses up all my energy and I wind up talking myself out of whatever it was I was going to do. Just give Sarah your home email address and phone number and say you want to keep in touch. People do that all the time when leaving jobs or transferring. Edit: I’d also say that while you can use this moment to tell her how you feel about her, you don’t have to. You could just focus on the exchange of contact info–it is important for you to get _her_ email address so you can use it. Once you’ve gone out with her a few times without the work connection, then you could bring up how close you feel to her. Or not. You’ll know what to do. (I have enjoyed sneaking over and reading your stripclub posts sometimes, I’ll admit.) ---
**Author:** ![phernoob](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phernoob/32/180_2.png) [@phernoob](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/phernoob)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 1:25am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/7 "2008-07-25T01:25:40Z")
Wow - my heart goes out to you. I agree with the others. Do be honest with her. Exchange numbers. In your post I can tell you are intelligent and sensitive - not a combination found in every man. How could she not respond to that? Get some closure. Closure is soooo important. It will help you go in the right direction. If it could happen with her, why let this one opportunity slip away? What Tish said about focusing on the positive is right. Would you have been inclined to put your foot forward without this push? YOU CAN DO IT!!! ---
**Author:** ![Julia](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/julia/32/1388_2.png) [@Julia](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Julia)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 3:48am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/8 "2008-07-25T03:48:36Z")
I do believe everything happens for a reason; there is nothing more exciting than a crush! Even if things do not work out with this chic, at least your friendship with her has helped you overcome your relationship with your ex AND at the same time your attraction to this chic has reminded you, you are still a sensual being, with vital life force! ---
**Author:** ![data4](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/data4/32/272_2.png) [@data4](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/data4)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 6:05am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/9 "2008-07-25T06:05:49Z")
Thank you, everyone. I’m going to take what everyone said to heart and go in tomorrow expecting the best possible outcome. I won’t settle for less. 😃 To answer your question, Takhisis (love the name, btw. I almost picked Raistlin for my nick here. 🙂), We’re basically spread all over the area. The Seattle-Tacoma-Puget Sound area is basically a spread out conglomeration of the larger cities of Seattle and Tacoma, with smaller towns in between. She lives about 30 miles from me. We work near Seattle, and my new location is about 6 miles from the old one. However, because of differences in schedules, the likelihood of our paths crossing is slim to none. I’m still asleep when she goes to work, and I’ll be coming into work as she’s leaving. Right now, it allows us to see eachother and talk at shift change, but once I relocate, that’ll be impossible. The one good thing is that for a couple of weeks, I’ll be on first shift, too, so the possibility of getting together after work is there. She actually goes near my new location on her way home. Anyway… I’m excited, scared, nervous, and hopeful all at once. Tisha, if you could wave your wand in my direction, that’d be great! If you could wave your wand in _her_ direction on my behalf, that’d be awesome! 😃 -D4 ---
**Author:** ![Warren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/97f17d/32.png) [@Warren](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Warren)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 6:45am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/10 "2008-07-25T06:45:22Z")
> [@data4](#): > > I’ve got about 10 minutes to make a lasting impression on her, and I want it to be positive. I haven’t the foggiest idea how to pull this off. Any suggestions? Write her a letter. You don’'t have time to express yourself adequately. If you did, she wouldn’t have time to digest it and reply meaningfully. ---
**Author:** ![jamesbonded](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jamesbonded/32/2090_2.png) [@jamesbonded](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jamesbonded)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 7:43am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/11 "2008-07-25T07:43:40Z")
> [@Warren](#): > > Write her a letter. > > You don’'t have time to express yourself adequately. If you did, she wouldn’t have time to digest it and reply meaningfully. I agree. Letter is a good idea. You won’t miss things you want to say 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![data4](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/data4/32/272_2.png) [@data4](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/data4)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 9:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/12 "2008-07-25T09:24:07Z")
I could do a letter, but that just seems so impersonal. In many cases, I can convey myself better in text, where I have the time to think about what I’m going to say, but I think spontaneity and the dynamic nature of face to face contact would be better in this case. Thoughts? -D4 ---
**Author:** ![Takhisis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Takhisis](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Takhisis)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 9:59am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/13 "2008-07-25T09:59:59Z")
A letter is a good idea to make sure you don’t forget something you wanted to say. Although, IMHO, a letter might be too heavy for the level of relationship you are in at the moment. Take advantage of the opportunity to go for a drink after work if she passes by!! Whatever the outcome, you seem like the person who has it in them to bounce back from bad experiences and turn them into strength for the future. And you’re definitely a man of taste if you are familiar with Dragonlance 😉 It would have been amusing to see you be “Raistlin” on the board. ---
**Author:** ![Carrie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/carrie/32/1537_2.png) [@Carrie](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Carrie)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 1:37pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/14 "2008-07-25T13:37:54Z")
> [@Takhisis](#): > > A letter is a good idea to make sure you don’t forget something you wanted to say. Although, IMHO, a letter might be too heavy for the level of relationship you are in at the moment. I completely agree with this - if you two are work buddies, receiving a letter from you is overly intense unless she is already pining away in love with you. I think you need to stay somewhere between warm friendship and flirting at this stage! Definitely get her number and/or email and then follow up on it, but don’t go overboard with a letter. In this age of email, a letter will come off more serious than ever. ---
**Author:** ![djacquelyn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/djacquelyn/32/2180_2.png) [@djacquelyn](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/djacquelyn)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/15 "2008-07-25T16:22:59Z")
Hi Data, Wow…what an absolutely heartfelt post. Now, I gotta tell you nothing turns a woman on more than a man(even and especially the ALPHA MALE) who can pour out his heart like a woman and still look like a man.lol If I knew this Sarah, I would myself go to her and say "Sarah my dear, have I found you the man of your dreams 😉 But Mostly I agree with the others, you gotta say something to her Data. Look for all you know she is prolly feeling you as much as you are feeling her. and she may even be wondering will she get to see you again now that you are leaving and she may even be down about it herself and just imagine, what if she is hoping she could have the chance to hook up with you data, but some women are a little old fashioned about making the first move. You seem like a very nice guy ( I picked up on how you mentioned in your post that you felt an obligation to remain faithful to your wife until it was completely over) I bet this Sarah would love the opportunity to get to know you all over now that you are single and emotionally available. Now here this! Man up Data…if you don’t do it, you will always be in a state of “I wonder what if…” where Sarah is concerned. And along the lines of what Tisha mentioned and I am firm believer in that which you put out in the atmosphere has a 99% of manifesting be it positive or negative, so put out positive energy and watch as it returns…I bet you’ll be amazed. I am rooting for you in this case and I hope you’ll come back and let us know 🙂 Great post and I hope ya don’t mind but this deserves a rep so I’m repping ya 🙂 djacquelyn ---
**Author:** ![copycat](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/copycat/32/896_2.png) [@copycat](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/copycat)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/16 "2008-07-25T20:06:43Z")
Data, Marry me. Okay, I guess not. > [@Takhisis](#): > > My two cents would be to be honest with her and let her know that you enjoy spending time with her and would love to do it again some time, and set a definite date for it, lest it falls in the “yeah, one day” category. Swap contact details with her if you don’t want to seem in a rush to ask her out but call her soon, at least to let her know how you’re getting on/how she’s getting on. > > If you can swing it, suggest a goodbye drinks with your soon-to-be-former workmates and invite her along? Takhisis is absolutely right, in my opinion. You MUST make a solid plan to meet up soon. Days and weeks slip by way too fast, and besides, it’ll give you something to think about besides the pit you’ve been moved to. ---
**Author:** ![data4](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/data4/32/272_2.png) [@data4](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/data4)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 8:34am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/17 "2008-07-26T08:34:34Z")
Aww, you guys are too much! 😃 Well… I did it. It went pretty well, actually. The only problem was my motormouth. Well that, and my repeatedly getting tongue-tied. This is a bit… unconventional, but with a mind towards critique and improvement, I recorded the conversation. I figure ethical concerns are nil, since the chances of any of you knowing Sarah or meeting her are pretty slim. Besides, she didn’t say a whole lot anyway. So… have a listen. How did I do? [http://www.data463.com/data4ispathetic.mp3](http://www.data463.com/data4ispathetic.mp3) If any part of it is unclear, let me know, and I’ll transcribe it. -D4 ---
**Author:** ![copycat](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/copycat/32/896_2.png) [@copycat](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/copycat)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 1:32pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/18 "2008-07-26T13:32:49Z")
Clever Data, Dude, were you in a _spaceship_? Coooool! I couldn’t understand her most of the time when she spoke. I listened twice. I thought you were going to leave this with a date lined up? It sounds like she’s seeing someone already? How did you feel when it was over? _[one shot of Instant Honesty]_ Data, sweetie, you kept shooting yourself down. Were you expecting the worst? Personally (and I would say this if I was sitting with you in person), I think you’d have been happier with the outcome if you’d not been so hard on yourself. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I just read the transcript you posted. I missed a lot of it in the recording, and of course didn’t have the benefit of knowing her reactions to what was being said. I want to re-emphasize that you were _really_ tough on yourself. I understand; I can totally see myself struggling through that conversation. And we both know the opposite sex is attracted to a confident partner, yet sometimes it’s hard to pull off. xo ---
**Author:** ![jamesbonded](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jamesbonded/32/2090_2.png) [@jamesbonded](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/jamesbonded)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/19 "2008-07-26T15:32:11Z")
Good pouring there. Too bad, can’t really listen to what she said. Try to get a chance to say “I like you. I wish to make our relationship more than just friends”. Just my opinion though. ---
**Author:** ![Phya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@Phya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phya)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2008, 7:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189/20 "2008-07-26T19:44:15Z")
I don’t know how this happened, but I actually dreamed about you recording the conversation. I don’t know if you mentioned it earlier and I read it and forgot somehow, but that’s kinda creepy that I dreamt that. 🙂 It wasn’t so much like, oh D4’s taking a recording and such, it was more like, hmm..I wonder what it’d be like to audio record a convo like that for review (which is literally what happened here), then kinda just went eh, half interesting..and flew off somewhere. 😛 I’ll take a listen, though I doubt I can add anything helpful, these ladies pretty much have your back covered from here to the moon. 😃 Edit: Don’t like the name of the file too much. You’re not pathetic. [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/ladies-may-i-ask-for-your-advice/16189.md?page=2)