# Lakerman34's Journal **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Journals\ **Created:** [April 22, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999 "2011-04-22T16:55:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Astrea](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/astrea/32/1928_2.png) [@Astrea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Astrea)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/21 "2011-06-21T22:57:10Z")
> [@Steve](#): > > You’re a good guy Lakerman34, but I feel that you have some blinders on. Summer romances have a way of romanticizing everything. There’s nothing wrong with it, but from my perspective, only from what you wrote already, she is distant because maybe she doesn’t want it to happen anyway. She is keeping you at arms length and getting you to swoon over her. She has the best of both worlds right now. > > I really hope your cross isn’t too sentimental. > > She loves all the attention she is getting, is using jealousy to get even more and yet, she can’t make a commitment to you. So ask yourself, what exactly has she done for you? Has she done anything at all? I’m with Steve, on this now. If the gift didn’t bring out a decent response. . . meh. She’s wanting all sorts of reassuring and making out like it’s only one way travel - you to her on the LDR. Time you clarify (one way or another), what’s going on. Because round about now; her game looks better than yours - on paper. To me, she’s now coming across as a tease. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![lakerman34](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lakerman34/32/1663_2.png) [@lakerman34](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/lakerman34)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/22 "2011-06-26T16:30:37Z")
> [@Astrea](#): > > I’m with Steve, on this now. If the gift didn’t bring out a decent response. . . meh. She’s wanting all sorts of reassuring and making out like it’s only one way travel - you to her on the LDR. Time you clarify (one way or another), what’s going on. Because round about now; her game looks better than yours - on paper. To me, she’s now coming across as a tease. ☹ News: We are trying the Long Distance thing. AND, it was actually KATE that made it happen. Kate saw my extremely long tongue (HAHA I tell people Gene Simmons is my uncle), and told Jane that it was ‘her loss’ if she didn’t let me…you know… So I did. And we woke up the 3 other guys in my apartment at 5 in the morning 🆒 THING IS: She isn’t willing to put out for me. But the night after I gave her 😛, she told me that she was willing to have sex with me. Unfortunately, pharmacies and supermarkets don’t have condoms in Athens (so stupid). Found some today though in a souvenir shop in the touristy area of Athens, and she saw me buy 2. Tonight is her last night in Greece (it’s currently 7:30pm) and she leaves at 5:30 in the morning. We’ll see. Also, she has a guy that likes her at home, and apparently she liked him, but she told me that she’s going home and ending things with him. It’s looking VERY good for me. Almost perfectly. Until today. I went shopping with Jane and Kate, and started taking mental notes and thought, maybe (just maybe), I’m getting into this hastily (fact: if I brought her home to friends and parents, they would all be very confused. As pretty and cute as she is, she REALLY isn’t my type). Last night, just for laughs, we went to get our palms read. A friend of ours (a local wine merchant) said it was scary how much she knew. I expected a lot of BS, but she called out a lot of things that happened to me that I didn’t mention all trip (past relationships, quitting basketball and it paining me for years, etc). She told us that we are COMPLETE opposites, and ‘not the good kind’ of opposites, and a relationship isn’t going to work. So, I’m going to fly to GA at least once (probably in about a month and half) and see how she is when she’s in her home environment. If I realize that she really isn’t for me, I’m going to ask for my cross back and give her the “just friends” talk. ---
**Author:** ![Astrea](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/astrea/32/1928_2.png) [@Astrea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Astrea)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/23 "2011-06-26T21:20:51Z")
> [@lakerman34](#): > > News: We are trying the Long Distance thing. > > AND, it was actually KATE that made it happen. Kate saw my extremely long tongue (HAHA I tell people Gene Simmons is my uncle), and told Jane that it was ‘her loss’ if she didn’t let me…you know… > > So I did. And we woke up the 3 other guys in my apartment at 5 in the morning 🆒 > > THING IS: She isn’t willing to put out for me. But the night after I gave her 😛, she told me that she was willing to have sex with me. Unfortunately, pharmacies and supermarkets don’t have condoms in Athens (so stupid). > > Found some today though in a souvenir shop in the touristy area of Athens, and she saw me buy 2. Tonight is her last night in Greece (it’s currently 7:30pm) and she leaves at 5:30 in the morning. > > We’ll see. > > Also, she has a guy that likes her at home, and apparently she liked him, but she told me that she’s going home and ending things with him. > > It’s looking VERY good for me. Almost perfectly. > > Until today. I went shopping with Jane and Kate, and started taking mental notes and thought, maybe (just maybe), I’m getting into this hastily (fact: if I brought her home to friends and parents, they would all be very confused. As pretty and cute as she is, she REALLY isn’t my type). > > Last night, just for laughs, we went to get our palms read. A friend of ours (a local wine merchant) said it was scary how much she knew. I expected a lot of BS, but she called out a lot of things that happened to me that I didn’t mention all trip (past relationships, quitting basketball and it paining me for years, etc). > > She told us that we are COMPLETE opposites, and ‘not the good kind’ of opposites, and a relationship isn’t going to work. > > So, I’m going to fly to GA at least once (probably in about a month and half) and see how she is when she’s in her home environment. If I realize that she really isn’t for me, I’m going to ask for my cross back and give her the “just friends” talk. Treading dangerous ground asking for a gift back. You’re going to have to be a little sneaky - if she senses the ‘friends’ talk coming. She may refuse or mangle it if she’s feeling used. ---
**Author:** ![lakerman34](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lakerman34/32/1663_2.png) [@lakerman34](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/lakerman34)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/24 "2011-06-27T18:01:19Z")
> [@Astrea](#): > > Treading dangerous ground asking for a gift back. You’re going to have to be a little sneaky - if she senses the ‘friends’ talk coming. She may refuse or mangle it if she’s feeling used. It wasn’t a gift. It was a promise that I’d have to go visit her 3 times in order to get it back. The thing is, when she’s drinking, a different side of her comes out. She told me ‘if you sleep with another girl, I’d prefer you’d tell me’ and ‘you should really transfer to my school, you’ll love it’ and even talking about marriage (whatever). Also, she likes to make me jealous. One of the guys on the trip has a body of a God, has a strut in his walk, and essentially should be a model/male stripper. She always says things like “I’d hire him” and “Oh look at that body. I wanna f\*%& him so badly.” Whatever. Everyone was pushing for her to get the deed done (I’ve called her out saying she’s very selfish in bed). I told her ‘look, if you don’t want to, you don’t have to, that’s not what I’m after. I’m after you.’ And she thought that was adorable. I then told her that I was going to be like a dog (tail between legs) when she leaves, and like a dog (wagging tail jumping all over the place) when I see her again, and she smiled. When she left with everybody else, I ran up on the bus and gave her a last kiss. Although she’d hug me and kiss me back, it seemed very unenthusiastic and almost “alright already, I’m leaving, get over it, geez.” I said about a hundred times “I’m going to miss you so much, I’m going to go crazy for a little bit when your not around.” And she says “don’t be a cry baby” with a laugh. In my drunk stupor, I went home after she left and sent her a FB message on how much she made me learn about myself in my month with her, and how I never had feelings for a girl like I do her, and how I plan on writing her (part of me thinks this was a good idea, part of me thinks it was me acting a little clingy). She was on her FB during her connection, and did not respond to the message, which has me a tad worried. But, like I said, if anything happens, I’m prepared to drop it all and move on. She kept the cross, so I’m assuming that she does, indeed, have feelings for me, and she will tell this other guy that she’s more interested in me. One of my best friends is currently in a successful LDR, and he says the following: 1. Set up weekly Skype dates. Treat these like appointments. It’s OK to text/call in between, but not excessively. 2. Visit AT LEAST every 6-8 weeks. 3. Have AT LEAST 1 major vacation together per year. 4. Trust, and expect there to be another guy (or guys) that’s going to go after her. Just trust that she’ll stay true. Allow there to be another guy anchor, but make sure that the only one that she’s willing to sleep with is you. 5. Set a future date (we are going to do sometime in February) to evaluate where you stand as a couple. I’m willing to try this, and I heard her talk to her mom who said that it’s doable, and she was telling me that she has a friend that is in a LDR, and it is working for her. We’ll see. The reason we haven’t OFFICIALLY called it is because this guy that likes her, and she had feelings for in the past. They have a movie date as soon as she gets back (she even asked me if it was OK), and she told me that she’s going to explain that he’s just a friend, and doesn’t want to lose his friendship. I told her that I was in a similar situation as him, and he seems like a good dude (takes her mom and sister out to lunch quite often), and to let him down easily, and that I want them to remain friends. We’ll see how it works out, but I’ll keep you guys posted. My ticket to Greece is scheduled until August 3rd, but I plan on cutting that down to around July 20ish so that I can go visit her in early August. OH, and last night, she came to my room to watch a movie, and I was LOADED on TUTH and a little bit of AMMO. She told me I smelled nice, and kept putting her nose against my chest and belly, but nothing happened. She even told me at one point to ‘stop touching her and just watch the movie.’ I’m a VERY sexual guy that enjoys it when it gets rough. She’s very fragile, and isn’t very sexual at all (doesn’t throw herself on me, not down to do much in bed). All these things are negative, and when she’s away from me, I think about them, but when I’m with her, I don’t seem to care. I guess I’m smitten right now, but not quite in love. ---
**Author:** ![Astrea](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/astrea/32/1928_2.png) [@Astrea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Astrea)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 3:40am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/25 "2011-06-28T03:40:06Z")
> [@lakerman34](#): > > **It wasn’t a gift. It was a promise that I’d have to go visit her 3 times in order to get it back.** > > **Be careful. Possession is nine tenths of the law. This is a souvenir, a shoebox in the closet thing, I’ve seen this kind of thing go baaaad too many times to bother counting.** > > The thing is, when she’s drinking, a different side of her comes out. She told me ‘if you sleep with another girl, I’d prefer you’d tell me’ and ‘you should really transfer to my school, you’ll love it’ and even talking about marriage (whatever). > > Also, \*_she likes to make me jealous. One of the guys on the trip has a body of a God, has a strut in his walk, and essentially should be a model/male stripper. She always says things like “I’d hire him” and "Oh look at that body. I wanna f_%& him so badly." \*\*Whatever. > > **Remember to breathe. In particular breathe out. When stressed, we tend to hold our breath. Breathing in a controlled manner circumvents this. Then say “go for it. if that’s what you like, go sample the goods”. This is ugly game. Little and petty but ugly game. YOU DON’T FUCK WITH SOMEONE’S BUTTONS FOR FUN!!! Bad karma, if nothing else. Why would you get jealous when you specify below, she’s neither good / talented in bed; nor is she sexual. Do you think that “Adonis” is gonna be interested in a limp doll? Even if she is pretty, that kind of sex gets REALLY boring after a couple of HOURS! But do you know how many male strippers are gay? 😃😃😃** > > Everyone was pushing for her to get the deed done (I’ve called her out saying she’s very selfish in bed). I told her ‘look, if you don’t want to, you don’t have to, that’s not what I’m after. I’m after you.’ **And she thought that was adorable.** > > **You just complied with her game.** > > I then told her that I was going to be like a dog (tail between legs) when she leaves, and like a dog (wagging tail jumping all over the place) when I see her again, **and she smiled.** > > **Of course, she’s got YOU where SHE wants you.** > > When she left with everybody else, I ran up on the bus and gave her a last kiss. Although she’d hug me and kiss me back, it seemed very unenthusiastic and almost “alright already, I’m leaving, get over it, geez.” I said about a hundred times “I’m going to miss you so much, I’m going to go crazy for a little bit when your not around.” And she says “don’t be a cry baby” with a laugh. > > In my drunk stupor, I went home after she left and sent her a FB message on how much she made me learn about myself in my month with her, and how I never had feelings for a girl like I do her, and how I plan on writing her (part of me thinks this was a good idea, part of me thinks it was me acting a little clingy). > > She was on her FB during her connection, and did not respond to the message, which has me a tad worried. But, like I said, if anything happens, I’m prepared to drop it all and move on. **She kept the cross, so I’m assuming that she does, indeed, have feelings for me, and she will tell this other guy that she’s more interested in me.** > > **I don’t like the way this panned out. To me, from the games I’ve seen played, no bueno. I’m trying to prep you so you’re not blindsided or outflanked. She has a token, proof of her desirability, from you. “This guy is SOOO in love with me, he gave me his cross. It’s sentimental to him and he _gave_ it to me.”** > > One of my best friends is currently in a successful LDR, and he says the following: > > 1. Set up weekly Skype dates. Treat these like appointments. It’s OK to text/call in between, but not excessively. > 2. Visit AT LEAST every 6-8 weeks. > 3. Have AT LEAST 1 major vacation together per year. > 4. Trust, and expect there to be another guy (or guys) that’s going to go after her. Just trust that she’ll stay true. Allow there to be another guy anchor, but make sure that the only one that she’s willing to sleep with is you. > 5. Set a future date (we are going to do sometime in February) to evaluate where you stand as a couple. > > I’m willing to try this, and I heard her talk to her mom who said that it’s doable, and she was telling me that she has a friend that is in a LDR, and it is working for her. > > We’ll see. **The reason we haven’t OFFICIALLY called it is because this guy that likes her, and she had feelings for in the past.** They have a movie date as soon as she gets back (she even asked me if it was OK), and she told me that she’s going to explain that he’s just a friend, and doesn’t want to lose his friendship. > > **Dude, do you really think she’s that concerned with his feelings? If she is, there’s more to it than what she’s telling you. End of story. My personal conviction is if she didn’t have penetration with you, she’s feeling guilty; guilt implies much more than “someone who likes me and who I’ve had feelings for in the past”** > > I told her that I was in a similar situation as him, and he seems like a good dude (takes her mom and sister out to lunch quite often), and to let him down easily, and that I want them to remain friends. > > We’ll see how it works out, but I’ll keep you guys posted. My ticket to Greece is scheduled until August 3rd, but I plan on cutting that down to **around July 20ish so that I can go visit her in early August.** > > **Surprise her. Turn up a day earlier than you say you will. And let the chips fall where they may.** > > OH, and last night, she came to my room to watch a movie, and I was LOADED on TUTH and a little bit of AMMO. She told me I smelled nice, and kept putting her nose against my chest and belly, but nothing happened. She even told me at one point to ‘stop touching her and just watch the movie.’ I’m a VERY sexual guy that enjoys it when it gets rough. She’s very fragile, **and isn’t very sexual at all (doesn’t throw herself on me, not down to do much in bed).** All these things are negative, and when she’s away from me, I think about them, but when I’m with her, I don’t seem to care. I guess I’m smitten right now, but not quite in love. > > **I know this is America. But this is a common syndrome in Oz; pretty girls being notorious for just lying there - it’s your privilege to have her in your bed or be in her bed - and has no inclination to reciprocate in any way. Actually, both genders** in Oz have a reputation for being boring to non events in bed; when the individuals are pretty. > I’m sorry, I don’t comprehend a girl being into a guy, spending quiet time and \*doesn’t want to be touched??!\*\*\ ***Again, no bueno.** \*\*Dude, please decide it’s \*\*\*\*just \*\ ***infatuation. I want this to be what you want it to be, but I’m completely skeptical. I think you got done.** **I want to know what happens. Seriously. I hope your LDR works out.** ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/26 "2011-06-29T19:03:20Z")
Couldn’t have said it any better than Astrea ---
**Author:** ![lakerman34](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lakerman34/32/1663_2.png) [@lakerman34](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/lakerman34)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/27 "2011-07-30T00:32:20Z")
You guys were right. It started out well. I Skyped her everyday when she went back to the US, and I stayed in Greece. Then, it started. Fight after fight after FIGHT! The first fight, I told her that I didn’t want the back and forth, and from now on, we should talk it over. She agreed. I bought my plan ticket for August 3-9. Then she’d fight me about the STUPIDEST things. I always apologized (even though it was, essentially, that I wasn’t allowed to have my own opinions, and my rational thinking versus her emotional thinking was wrong), and we always ended up OK. Then, she complained the night before she broke up with me that I never called her (I’m in the US now). I called her RIGHT AWAY, spoke to her for 2 hours, then told her I’d make an effort. Next day, I call her twice. Cool. Help her with her homework, and then in the morning because she had ‘a nightmare that was scary.’ Lack of phone communication was one of the reasons why she dumped me, even though once she brought it up (which was only 3 days after I was back in the friggin country), I made the effort RIGHT AWAY. I told her a story about me that I’m sensitive about. She told her roommate, and they went on MY Facebook and started posting jokes about it. First I deleted, telling them to knock it off, then STOP!, then STOP POSTING SHIT ON MY WALL! After a few hours, I called to apologize. She dumped me. I went Facebook crazy, deleting pictures, comments, her friends, etc. Then, she started to talk to me on FB chat. Then she started telling me how I was two faced, cocky, arrogant, talked myself up, etc (NOT ME AT ALL). I kept apologizing telling her how I wanted to change with her help. Next day, more of this. She cussing me out, me apologizing. Then, she started making excuses to why we would never work. I told her all her excuses (lack of honeymoon phase, not knowing when I’d visit her again after my first visit, etc) would have ALL been answered when I visited GA. I told her to wait a few days, and talk to me again. I bought her flowers (mistake? probably. more money spent on a girl that probably wasn’t worth it). She texts me saying it was thoughtful. I tell her ‘I’m sorry if I ever hurt you or made you feel less than what you are. It was never my intention. All I wanted to do was make you happy.’ Then, ask her to Skype for 5 minutes, she refused. Phone call, she refused. So finally we Skype chat (I wanted to see her face). She starts yelling at me AGAIN, and I reciprocate by saying ‘I hope whatever you do in life you are happy. I hope you find a man that loves you, and I hope that you find success. I hope you ace your final (she’s taking a summer course) and I will continue to pray for you.’ This drives her crazy, she blocks me on Skype. 2 days later, she nonchalantly comments on my FB page w/ some neutral stuff (not negative or positive). On her FB page, one of her friends mentions something which could be taken as a date for this weekend (a girl friend of mine says that they probably planned this to drive me crazy). Unable to take anymore of the immaturity, I delete her from my FB friends. She then goes on Twitter and goes a little crazy, using different tags saying how she ‘shouldn’t be with a guy not worth it’ and how ‘anyone who thinks blocking someone on FB is a burn needs to get a life.’ I message her on FB (maybe not my brightest idea) telling her that I was not burning her. She tells me ‘lol stop messaging me because i really dont want to talk to you.’ And I tell her ‘^and THATS why I did what I did.’ And she insists she doesn’t care, and asks me to stop irritating her. She told me that she’s ‘not that big of a bitch’ (yeah right) and she’ll send me back my cross. The girl quit smoking for a WHOLE week (she did this for me, and when I heard that, I told her 'I know we aren’t using the word ‘love’ right now, but you just shot up so many ‘love’ points for me. you’re amazing), and within that week, we had our fights. Of course, she refuses to take that (along with other things) into account. Also, I sense she’s not over her BF of 5 yrs that gave her the ‘college or me’ ultimatum. She spoke about him enough… Even though she’s so many hours away, I kind of STILL wish we could put this on good terms, but she won’t have it. I just decided I don’t need the negative energy in my life any longer, so I got rid of her. Had I gone to GA, I feel like she would have made it a point to go see me. IDK how her wacky mind works, but maybe she wanted to have make-up sex or just wanted to get me worried that I might lose her?? I don’t know. She was very surprised when I told her I wasn’t going to go at all anymore. My dad says it may be the ‘best money I have ever spent’ because of the lessons that come attached to it. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Astrea](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/astrea/32/1928_2.png) [@Astrea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Astrea)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 7:48am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/28 "2011-07-30T07:48:12Z")
> [@lakerman34](#): > > Then she’d fight me about the STUPIDEST things. I always **apologized (even though it was, essentially, that I wasn’t allowed to have my own opinions, and my rational thinking versus her emotional thinking was wrong), and we always ended up OK.** > > Never apologise for your own opinions - but you know that now. Agree to disagree, and a mature individual will understand that males and females process information in different ways. Just a big ol’ fact of life. Only the immature, the needy and the egocentric, need to be right and you wrong all the time. > > Then, she complained the night before she broke up with me that I never called her (I’m in the US now). I called her RIGHT AWAY, spoke to her for 2 hours, then told her I’d make an effort. > > Did she have both hands and all fingers broken? What was wrong with that bitch picking up the phone or setting up the Skype? Is she simple? Or a prima donna? Or just a lazy cow? > > Next day, I call her twice. Cool. Help her with her homework, and then in the morning because **she had ‘a nightmare that was scary.’** Lack of phone communication was one of the reasons why she dumped me, even though once she brought it up (which was only 3 days after I was back in the friggin country), I made the effort RIGHT AWAY. > > Attention seeking game playing. There was NOTHING you could have done to please her. Sorry. You got done, she’s one of those ‘sweet as pie until she’s got what she wants’ types. Then you’re supposed to divine her intentions and read her mind. The ‘if you don’t know, I’m not gonna tell you’ type. No way to win that battle. This is the person that switches up the game every time you get a handle on the play book. > > **I told her a story about me that I’m sensitive about.** She told her roommate, and they went on MY Facebook and started posting jokes about it. First I deleted, telling them to knock it off, then STOP!, then STOP POSTING SHIT ON MY WALL! > > **BITCH.** That’s straight up betrayal of a confidence. As far as I’m concerned there’s no coming back from that one. Completely untrustworthy - and making it public? BITCH. Do you have anything on her to return the favor? I wouldn’t fault you if you did; but you just don’t seem like the vengeful type to me. > > After a few hours, **I called to apologize.** She dumped me. > > OMG, why? Why would you apologise when she’s been the unmitigated BITCH? Comes a time when you just have to stop and point out who has been hurt by actions here. > > I went Facebook crazy, deleting pictures, comments, her friends, etc. Then, she started to talk to me on FB chat. Then she started telling me how I was two faced, cocky, arrogant, talked myself up, etc (NOT ME AT ALL). **I kept apologizing telling her how I wanted to change with her help.** > > Why, why, why would you think that you needed to change in this scenario? She showed her true colors and you apologised for not being that shade of ugly, temperamental and unreasonable. What and who would you have changed into? How would you have changed - all this drama that she instigated and obviously loves - seems to go against what I’ve ‘seen’ of your nature. You can’t go against your own grain. Work with it to change - yes. Become someone **she’s** trying to make you over to? NO. > > Next day, more of this. **She cussing me out, me apologizing.** Then, she started making excuses to why we would never work. I told her all her excuses (lack of honeymoon phase, not knowing when I’d visit her again after my first visit, etc) would have ALL been answered when I visited GA. > > All her excuses are just that - excuses. She was never gonna let you win anything. You can’t give your attention to someone else at the expense of your own well being. This girl would have broken your heart over and over with stupid shit. And I mean shit, crap, drek, kaka, poop, bull cookies and bovine residue. There doesn’t seem to be anything of substance in any of what you’re telling us her complaints were. Just a lot of the above. > > She texts me saying it was thoughtful. I tell her 'I’m sorry if I ever hurt you or made you feel less than what you are. It was never my intention. **All I wanted to do was make you happy.’** Then, ask her to **Skype for 5 minutes, she refused. Phone call, she refused.** So finally we Skype chat (I wanted to see her face). She starts yelling at me AGAIN, and I reciprocate by saying **‘I hope whatever you do in life you are happy. I hope you find a man that loves you, and I hope that you find success. I hope you ace your final (she’s taking a summer course) and I will continue to pray for you.’ This drives her crazy,** she blocks me on Skype. > > Ok, one very solid lesson right here. I’m sure the guys will agree with me: You can’t make another person happy. You can inspire them to happiness with your presence; but YOU can’t MAKE them HAPPY. You are not responsible for how another processes their life. You can help illuminate, elucidate and help achieve happiness; but you CAN’T make someone else happy. It’s also not your job. Please, take this one to heart. > > 2 days later, she nonchalantly comments on my FB page w/ some neutral stuff (not negative or positive). > > On her FB page, one of her friends mentions something which could be taken as a date for this weekend (a girl friend of mine says that they probably planned this to drive me crazy). > > **Unable to take anymore of the immaturity,** I delete her from my FB friends. > > Good. Block her if you can. If you need to, post a warning on your wall. One of the big reasons I don’t FB. Too many whack jobs out there. > > **She then goes on Twitter and goes a little crazy,** using different tags saying how she ‘shouldn’t be with a guy not worth it’ and how ‘anyone who thinks blocking someone on FB is a burn needs to get a life.’ > > LOL, dude, how was this different to all the other crazy you told us about? > > I message her on FB (maybe not my brightest idea) telling her that I was not burning her. She tells me ‘lol stop messaging me because i really dont want to talk to you.’ And I tell her ‘^and THATS why I did what I did.’ And she insists she doesn’t care, and asks me to stop irritating her. > > She told me that she’s ‘not that big of a bitch’ (yeah right) and she’ll send me back my cross. > > The girl quit smoking for a WHOLE week (she did this for me, and when I heard that, I told her 'I know **we aren’t using the word ‘love’ right now,** but you just shot up so many ‘love’ points for me. you’re amazing), and within that week, we had our fights. Of course, she refuses to take that (along with other things) into account. > > People use the ‘love’ word too easily. Do you understand what I meant by infatuation and crushing on her? Love takes more than a holiday OS. It needs to be based in friendship (not the FZ type, you know what I mean), trust, honor and integrity. How do you love someone and not trust them? If she’s determined to put you in the ‘bad light’; she really can’t care that much for you - don’t you think? Don’t we all make excuses and look with ‘shiny’ eyes on the things our ‘loved ones’ do - right or wrong? > > Also, I sense she’s not over her BF of 5 yrs that gave her the ‘college or me’ ultimatum. She spoke about him enough… > > My dad says it may be the ‘best money I have ever spent’ because of the lessons that come attached to it. > > Thoughts? OMG, (I almost feel like you’re my little bro) I never wanted to be right. Just for it to work out for you. Do you realise how much time you spent _ **apologising** _? And apologising for who you are? No bueno. I’m so sorry. I agree with your Dad, and would like to add this: You now have a Litmus test. If another girl reminds you of this one: in mannerisms, or how she processes emotions, how she conducts communication - get me? Not a physical resemblance but the stuff that makes up either the fun or the hardship. If someone resembles in that manner - heads up. Repeat the pattern until you get it right, recognise and walk away or just smile knowingly and make yourself unavailable. You now have one of your own person Archetypes. Start the collection; make sure you check who’s resembles what (positive and negative Archetypes) and shuffle the list of your people accordingly. We do outgrow people sometimes. Everyone does their own thing in their own time - and sometimes it’s not appropriate for you to be around that. You won’t save everyone. You won’t even like everyone. It may hurt a lot - when it’s long time friendship or habit involved - but that’s part of the pattern too. That just reminds you that you’re human - and so are they. They just need to be **your** kind of human. She was obviously a Bitch in Princess’ clothing. ---
**Author:** ![lakerman34](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lakerman34/32/1663_2.png) [@lakerman34](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/lakerman34)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/29 "2011-07-30T14:51:42Z")
> [@Astrea](#): > > OMG, (I almost feel like you’re my little bro) I never wanted to be right. Just for it to work out for you. Do you realise how much time you spent _ **apologising** _? And apologising for who you are? No bueno. I’m so sorry. I agree with your Dad, and would like to add this: You now have a Litmus test. If another girl reminds you of this one: in mannerisms, or how she processes emotions, how she conducts communication - get me? Not a physical resemblance but the stuff that makes up either the fun or the hardship. If someone resembles in that manner - heads up. > > Repeat the pattern until you get it right, recognise and walk away or just smile knowingly and make yourself unavailable. You now have one of your own person Archetypes. Start the collection; make sure you check who’s resembles what (positive and negative Archetypes) and shuffle the list of your people accordingly. We do outgrow people sometimes. Everyone does their own thing in their own time - and sometimes it’s not appropriate for you to be around that. You won’t save everyone. You won’t even like everyone. It may hurt a lot - when it’s long time friendship or habit involved - but that’s part of the pattern too. That just reminds you that you’re human - and so are they. > > They just need to be **your** kind of human. She was obviously a Bitch in Princess’ clothing. Yeah, she’s been through a lot (meth baby, abusive dad who went to jail for 5 yrs., abusive boyfriends, and a long term relationship that ended on a ‘college or me’ ultimatum from her boyfriend). I guess I thought I could fix her, but you can’t fix anyone. One of my best girl friends is good with stuff like this, and she simply said she has a victim complex, and I have a ‘knight in shining armor’ complex. Couldn’t say it better myself. Astrea, I wish I could give you a HUGE hug. That was ALL very helpful. It still does hurt, but I know I’m A LOT better than her. You’re great, Astrea. ALSO, as for the apologizing, I never agreed with it. It was just a tactic used to stop fighting. I’ve been told that ‘all girls are crazy,’ but this one takes the cake. You’re right, I know A LOT now, and frankly, I just rose my standards. **What I learned** 1. Never date a psycho bitch 2. No matter how gorgeous the girl is, don’t date her solely based on her looks (although I will forever only date cute girls). 3. LDR are not my thing. 4. I deserve better than I thought I did. 5. Communication is key. There was a girl last year at my school, a year younger than I. Kind of perfect for me personality wise. When she saw that I was “in a relationship,” she messaged me saying how she thought that was great and how she was happy for me (now THAT’s a wonderful girl). However, she IS cute, but she’s just not hot enough or sexual enough for me. Bummer (I would have had to be abstinent all through the relationship. Not exactly my idea of fun). You can’t be too upset something like this happened if you learned something. I guess that’s what they call LIFE. ---
**Author:** ![Astrea](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/astrea/32/1928_2.png) [@Astrea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Astrea)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/30 "2011-07-30T18:44:42Z")
> [@lakerman34](#): > > Yeah, she’s been through a lot (meth baby, abusive dad who went to jail for 5 yrs., abusive boyfriends, and a long term relationship that ended on a ‘college or me’ ultimatum from her boyfriend). I guess I thought I could fix her, but you can’t fix anyone. > > One of my best girl friends is good with stuff like this, and she simply said **she has a victim complex** , and I have a ‘knight in shining armor’ complex. Couldn’t say it better myself. > > Astrea, **I wish I could give you a HUGE hug**. That was ALL very helpful. It still does hurt, but I know I’m A LOT better than her. You’re great, Astrea. > > ALSO, as for the apologizing, I never agreed with it. It was just a tactic used to stop fighting. > > I’ve been told that ‘all girls are crazy,’ but this one takes the cake. You’re right, I know A LOT now, and frankly, I just rose my standards. > > **What I learned** > > 1. Never date a psycho bitch > 2. No matter how gorgeous the girl is, don’t date her solely based on her looks (although I will forever only date cute girls). > 3. LDR are not my thing. > 4. I deserve better than I thought I did. > 5. Communication is key. > > There was a girl last year at my school, a year younger than I. Kind of perfect for me personality wise. When she saw that I was “in a relationship,” she messaged me saying how she thought that was great and how she was happy for me (now THAT’s a wonderful girl). > > However, she IS cute, but she’s just not hot enough or sexual enough for me. Bummer (I would have had to be abstinent all through the relationship. Not exactly my idea of fun). > > You can’t be too upset something like this happened if you learned something. I guess that’s what they call LIFE. Your friend sounds like she maybe hit that nail on the head. I wish I could hug you right back 😃. Consider yourself hugged - I am. 😃 Glad you realise that you do deserve so much more. Things aren’t supposed to be that hard, especially in the beginning. You have enough on your plate without this kind of pyscho-drama at college. You found out before there was any real emotional investment, so no permanent damage - just a few emotional bumps and bruises. For me, beauty must be on the inside as well, to qualify as gorgeous. On to the next chica - in your current environment you can also ask around to find out how others perceive the next one. Balance it of course, with your own wisdom - but when people give a consistent view of a person - Heads up. Trust first - before you spill something you’re sensitive about; stick the IH in their faces first. 😃😮🆒. Keeping an eye out for your future adventures. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![lakerman34](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lakerman34/32/1663_2.png) [@lakerman34](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/lakerman34)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/31 "2011-08-29T18:36:46Z")
VERY INTERESTING PHERO STORY ALERT: I moved back into school last Sunday (8/21), a week earlier than everyone else. I’m in this new club, and we were having “orientation.” Other students, like Residence Advisors, Orientation Group Leaders (for incoming freshmen), athletes, and other student leaders moved in early as well. Fast forward to Friday night. A friend of mine, who’s a cheerleader, asked me if I wanted to drink with her and her roommate. I said, “sure, why not?” I wore 2 sprays of CTTM2, and a spray of AMMO. Both my friend and her roommate (also a cheerleader) have football players as boyfriends. There was another freshman football player drinking with us. Anyways, I ended up in the roommates bed, and the freshman fb player ended up in my friend’s bed. The girl kissed me (and that’s all we did for hours) and the other 2 were doing a lot more in the other bed (both girls cheating on their boyfriends). The next day, my friend texts me, gives me her roommate’s number, and says that she wants to ‘redo last night.’ I’m a little bit reluctant, because I don’t want to have to deal with a Division 1, 300lb, 6’3" football player. I tell her this, but she SWEARS he won’t find out and that it’s no strings attached, and that she won’t have a guilty conscience about it. I go to her room, and my friend is crying b/c the freshman fb player doesn’t want to be with her that night. We go outside in the lounge, and meet a lot of the freshmen football players. Then, the roommate and I go into the room, and I get more drunk than I have been in months! We end up in the bed together, and start kissing. Then, my friend and ANOTHER freshman football player come into the room to announce that they are going for sandwiches. (Power was out because of Hurricane Irene). HERE IS WHERE THE TROUBLE STARTS: The girl and I go back to my room, and we do A LOT of things (some things I have never even tried before, but she was very willing to oblige). After all, I was wearing two sprays of TUTH. She left early, telling me that she wanted to do it again the next night (so that would have been Friday, Saturday, and Sunday nights). At about 3PM, I was in a friends suite, hanging out, and she called. She was hyperventilating. “My boyfriend knows.” Apparently, the football player that saw us together said that we had our pants off and were ‘doing stuff’ (which wasn’t true at that moment). She’s freaking out, telling me that he knows where I live, and he’s looking for me ‘to talk.’ She told me that he was very unemotional, and always made it seem like she was going to dump him, but told me he was practically crying in her room. I panicked a little bit (I’m 6’0, 175 lbs, he’s 6’3", 300 lbs.), so I stayed as far away from my dorm as I could. Finally, she told me that she was going to tell him that I was drunk, I was feeling dizzy and sick (which is true), that we kissed, and I got a guilty conscience and went back to my room to sleep (she stayed in her’s). We deleted all texts and call history from our phones. She told me ‘you know this means that we can’t ever talk again, right?’ I was VERY fine with that. I feel sick. Haven’t been eating. I went to bed early last night, and at about 9:45PM, someone was banging on my door (I didn’t answer). Worst thing is, she told me that he blames me more than he blames her saying I ‘disrespected’ him. Which, yeah, it’s true, but I’m TRULY sorry for it, and wish I hadn’t. I’m not a scumbag, and did a VERY scummy thing here. I’ll never do anything like this AGAIN. She insisted that she’ll “fix everything” and make sure he knows that it’s her fault and not mine, but he’s apparently in his room and not talking to her right now. I don’t know if this is done, it may not be done for a long time. Honestly, I truly think I shouldn’t have to be involved in it, but if her boyfriend REALLY wants me to get involved, there’s no stopping that. Thoughts?? ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/32 "2011-08-29T20:35:18Z")
Well if you’re playing with fire, you need to be prepared to get burnt, which eventually you will. Sounds like you might be in for some tough times ahead. Since this is your second time you were messing around with another guys girl, you should of been prepared for the eventual outcome. If she is doing all the talking you’ll come off as really creepy to every girl on campus especially when she tells everyone that you took advantage of her. She’s going to be looking out for her own skin. You’re better stating your own position than having a girl do it for you. What you tell this guy is really up to you, but my suggestion is that you tell him. As soon as she lies about the whole thing and says how you took advantage of her after you got her drunk he will be red with anger. Than you’ll come along and say it was all her. You’ll probably only get him mad at that stage. ---
**Author:** ![lakerman34](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lakerman34/32/1663_2.png) [@lakerman34](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/lakerman34)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/33 "2011-08-29T20:56:49Z")
> [@Steve](#): > > Well if you’re playing with fire, you need to be prepared to get burnt, which eventually you will. Sounds like you might be in for some tough times ahead. Since this is your second time you were messing around with another guys girl, you should of been prepared for the eventual outcome. > > If she is doing all the talking you’ll come off as really creepy to every girl on campus especially when she tells everyone that you took advantage of her. She’s going to be looking out for her own skin. You’re better stating your own position than having a girl do it for you. What you tell this guy is really up to you, but my suggestion is that you tell him. As soon as she lies about the whole thing and says how you took advantage of her after you got her drunk he will be red with anger. Than you’ll come along and say it was all her. You’ll probably only get him mad at that stage. For my sake, I hope you’re wrong. I don’t think she’ll say that “I took advantage of her,” because that’s a HUGE lie. I go to a small enough school, and have a ‘nice guy’ rep here as it is (well, I think I do, anyways). If it comes down to it, if you are right, I WILL drag my friend into it (her roommate) and force her to tell the truth. She did it VERY willingly. It’s 4:50PM, and still no sign of the guy. I think, for me, it’s going to wash over. If the girl lies, I’ll do everything in my power to prove to him that she’s a liar (I’m good at getting people to sympathize with me. Call it my inner-lawyer HAHA (studying to be one)). NO ONE knows about this except for me, the 2 girls, and the football team. I’m not talking to anyone about it because, frankly, I don’t want anyone to know about it. If I do lose a tooth or an eye because of this, I have NO problem filing assault (and besides, being a D1 athlete he’d be stupid to lay a finger on me). His girlfriend and I BOTH messed up, but ultimately, she cheated on him, I was just “the other guy.” She’s more in the wrong than I am. That’s a fact. Now that you mention it, she told me “just say you don’t remember any of it b/c you were too drunk.” I think I might leave that part out. I’ll tell him I remember enough to piece together the night, and be honest up to the point that I went back to my room. And then be very apologetic about it. Funny thing is, before all this happened, I called one of my best friends for advice, b/c I knew it was immoral. He told me to ‘go for it.’ Now I know, never go to him for advice again. ---
**Author:** ![lakerman34](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lakerman34/32/1663_2.png) [@lakerman34](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/lakerman34)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/34 "2011-08-29T21:37:29Z")
On the other side, part of me wants to go to his dorm room (I can look it up on the school directory) and talk with him about it. I feel like it would be the man thing to do. But, like I said, I’m not trying to get my face punched in. He feels like I disrespected him, so I think maybe in a couple of days, I should build the courage, and go talk to him. Good idea, or not? ---
**Author:** ![Astrea](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/astrea/32/1928_2.png) [@Astrea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Astrea)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 6:28am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/35 "2011-08-30T06:28:08Z")
> [@lakerman34](#): > > For my sake, I hope you’re wrong. > > **NO ONE knows about this except for me, the 2 girls, and the football team.** I’m not talking to anyone about it because, frankly, I don’t want anyone to know about it. O.M.G. Dude! How many people is **that**?! Isn’t that like, 30+ people? You got a tiny window of opportunity to start stating your case. Steve’s right; she’s gonna look after her own skin - especially when this blows up. You need to be clear now. This is _ **AWESOME!!!** _ It’s living through one of these (in which we are a guilty party) that educates us in wisdom. Now you understand that emotional responses are not limited to girls. Now you have to deal with a month or so of looking over your shoulder. And for exactly those reasons, you don’t do it again. If you do, you’re not thinking right. I’m being as nice as I can about it. You don’t need this kind of rep this early in your college years; and \*\*_I seriously don’t think this is the kind of idea of you; that would be either socially productive, and personally enhancing._ When you know better, you do better. And now, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Oasis314](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/oasis314/32/219_2.png) [@Oasis314](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Oasis314)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 6:54am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/36 "2011-08-30T06:54:54Z")
Whatever doesn’t kills you makes you stronger should you learn from your mistakes and take away life long lessons. Astrea and Steve gave great advice, would follow them, but hey, you have your own way of learning, just be sure to learn from this opportunity 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lakerman34](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lakerman34/32/1663_2.png) [@lakerman34](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/lakerman34)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 1:27pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/37 "2011-08-30T13:27:03Z")
I mean, if it REALLY comes down to it, I’ll be honest with him (I STILL don’t believe I’ll be confronted). I’m going to see my performance coach (aka a psychologist who’s trying to help me get into YLS) today. We’ll see what he recommends. He’ll probably knock me upside the head. ---
**Author:** ![lakerman34](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lakerman34/32/1663_2.png) [@lakerman34](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/lakerman34)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/38 "2011-08-30T15:33:35Z")
> [@lakerman34](#): > > I mean, if it REALLY comes down to it, I’ll be honest with him (I STILL don’t believe I’ll be confronted). > > I’m going to see my performance coach (aka a psychologist who’s trying to help me get into YLS) today. We’ll see what he recommends. He’ll probably knock me upside the head. I spoke to him, and he agrees that I’ll probably have to look over my shoulder for a while, but he wasn’t overtly concerned. I told him EVERYTHING, and he told me if I am confronted, don’t tell the guy ANYTHING except that it’s between him and his girlfriend, that I’m truly sorry, alcohol was involved, I’m not that type of person, and that there are too many girls on this campus to go after a taken girl. If he wants information, he told me, don’t give him any. I don’t owe him anything. Fact of the matter is, kid is going to hate my guts. That’s fine. I didn’t even know who he was until this happened. Psychologist told me I’m probably thinking about it too much, and I think he’s right. So, I’m going to focus on my studies, and whatever happens will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Astrea](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/astrea/32/1928_2.png) [@Astrea](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Astrea)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/39 "2011-08-30T19:40:58Z")
> [@lakerman34](#): > > I spoke to him, and he agrees that I’ll probably have to look over my shoulder for a while, but he wasn’t overtly concerned. I told him EVERYTHING, and he told me if I am confronted, don’t tell the guy ANYTHING except that it’s between him and his girlfriend, that I’m truly sorry, alcohol was involved, I’m not that type of person, and that there are too many girls on this campus to go after a taken girl. If he wants information, he told me, don’t give him any. I don’t owe him anything. > > **Fact of the matter is, kid is going to hate my guts. That’s fine. I didn’t even know who he was until this happened. Psychologist told me I’m probably thinking about it too much, and I think he’s right. So, I’m going to focus on my studies, and whatever happens will happen.** Yeah, the guy is gonna hate you; and at the very minimum, solidarity is gonna have all his buddies hating on you too. Just one of the ramifications that goes along with this kind of mess. You’ve also said you’re in a small school, so it will get around. Think how you will be remembered when you walk away from any situation, room, event. etc. Focusing on your studies is of course, a great idea. It will take the focus of energy off the situation - hopefully leaving it unfed. As everyone has said, just learn and grow. Most of us have one of these things under our belts. It’s just how you gain life experience. Have some less dangerous fun - go cave diving or something. 😃 Or go chase the bad girl - and make some trouble that’s just gigglesome. Like getting busted skinny dipping. ---
**Author:** ![lakerman34](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lakerman34/32/1663_2.png) [@lakerman34](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/lakerman34)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999/40 "2011-08-30T20:43:29Z")
> [@Astrea](#): > > Yeah, the guy is gonna hate you; and at the very minimum, solidarity is gonna have all his buddies hating on you too. Just one of the ramifications that goes along with this kind of mess. You’ve also said you’re in a small school, so it will get around. Think how you will be remembered when you walk away from any situation, room, event. etc. Focusing on your studies is of course, a great idea. It will take the focus of energy off the situation - hopefully leaving it unfed. As everyone has said, just learn and grow. Most of us have one of these things under our belts. It’s just how you gain life experience. Have some less dangerous fun - go cave diving or something. 😃 Or go chase the bad girl - and make some trouble that’s just gigglesome. Like getting busted skinny dipping. Thing is, if word does go around, at this school, it could PROBABLY be used to my advantage haha (HOT and bad college girls LOVE “the douchebags” and “the assholes”). I’m not really either one. I’m actually a good guy, like I said in an earlier post, I have the “knight in shining armor” complex. Maybe I should start wearing some IJ. Of course, I may get my ass kicked if I go to a party and a football player is there, drunk. (HAHA JK, not gonna get that stuff). [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999.md?page=1) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/lakerman34s-journal/49999.md?page=3)