# Looks, YET AGAIN, but with a twist! I swear! **URL:** \ **Category:** Women's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [March 11, 2007, 9:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454 "2007-03-11T09:24:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![saraunne](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/saraunne/32/193_2.png) [@saraunne](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/saraunne)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 9:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/1 "2007-03-11T09:24:03Z")
Hey guys, getting off break tomorrow, will catch up (hopefully!) on all old posts, and have been trying a little now. One thing that caught my eye was that one thread in the men’s section. [Tips and Thoughts for you who worry about your looks.](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/tips-and-thoughts-for-you-who-worry-about-your-looks/2368) And I found that I had a lot to say about it, but nothing really relevant to the original concept of the thread, or to the guys’s perspective of things. So I decided to say something here. I don’t know if this will get any response, and I’m throwing myself out here, but oh well!🙄 I’d love to see some thoughts, though. I think we’ve beaten the do-looks-matter-to-others topic to death. But what I think is important now is how OUR looks matter to US, and how that transfers into other parts of our lives. I’ll be the first to admit I worry about how I look. I know I have a lot going for me in other areas, but in some VERY VERY weird way I’m starting to want to be appreciated for my looks just as much if not more than the rest. It absolutely sounds shallow, but it’s the truth for as ugly as it is. Hah, that’s almost ironic. A lot of the time I feel like an ugly hag. Maybe I don’t look it. I know I’ve gotten compliments with and without [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/). But I certainly don’t feel it all of the time. I have to constantly remind myself that other people think I’m pretty. There are days when I’ll look in the mirror and think, “WHOA.” Some days, “meh”, but a lot of the time it’s “ugh.” All of my insecurities stem down to how I feel about the way I look. Tramautic childhood experiences: being told I was already ugly by girls (probably feeling threatened), in elementary school that I’d get ugly once I got older, in middle school that all the boys would be kicking themselves for not liking me ONCE I GOT OLDER, not wearing the right clothes and skin problems was a disaster in highschool for self esteem (once I got older… again)… It wasn’t until I was in my LAST YEAR OF COLLEGE that I finally got to that “once I got older” age. But now to add onto all of that I photograph HORRIBLY. I’m not joking. I get all these hits and compliments, and I have to accept the fact that none of you guys will believe me if I post a pic. 😛 Hence the self-portrait caricature, which does bear a likeness, though the lips are all wrong. I have a brilliant story about being the least photogenic person in the world, too, which I will tell if anybody wants to hear, but it’s getting late. Stupid time change. But I think we are much harsher on ourselves than others. I know I am. Has anybody had this situation, or is in it now? I have more things to say (scandalous issues, too! PUAs! Ratings! The media!) But I figure I’d see if this would go anywhere before that… … and before my usual long post got even longer. So goodnight unto you all! Give me your hands if we be friends! ---
**Author:** ![Gegogi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gegogi/32/1536_2.png) [@Gegogi](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gegogi)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 9:36am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/2 "2007-03-11T09:36:31Z")
> [@](#): > > I have a brilliant story about being the least photogenic person in the world, too, which I will tell if anybody wants to hear, but it’s getting late. A skillful photographer can make almost anyone look good. If you look half way decent, he or she can make you look stunning. It’s about vision and highlighting your strong points while obscuring weaknesses. And to do that well, the photog must get to know you as a good photograph is as much about revealing your personality as it is about presenting your best appearance. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 11:15am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/3 "2007-03-11T11:15:41Z")
> [@](#): > > A lot of the time I feel like an ugly hag. Maybe I don’t look it. I know I’ve gotten compliments with and without pheromones. But I certainly don’t feel it all of the time. I have to constantly remind myself that other people think I’m pretty. There are days when I’ll look in the mirror and think, “WHOA.” Some days, “meh”, but a lot of the time it’s “ugh.” Beautiful girls seem to tend to be much more insecure about their looks - plainer girls just don’t get how powerful the impact of beauty can be. > [@](#): > > But now to add onto all of that I photograph HORRIBLY. I’m not joking. I get all these hits and compliments, and I have to accept the fact that none of you guys will believe me if I post a pic. 😛 Hence the self-portrait caricature, which does bear a likeness, though the lips are all wrong. Cool portrait. Why do you think you photograph horribly? Do you tense up your facial muscles when somebody is taking a picture? Do you photograph better after a few drinks? Both were true for me, and working on ways to address body consciousness and live more in the moment were part of the answer… > [@](#): > > I have a brilliant story about being the least photogenic person in the world, too, which I will tell if anybody wants to hear, but it’s getting late. Stupid time change. Do tell 😉 > [@](#): > > But I think we are much harsher on ourselves than others. I know I am. Yep - I think that is just part of being human… There was some study/survey on that I think. > [@](#): > > I have more things to say (scandalous issues, too! PUAs! Ratings! The media!) But I figure I’d see if this would go anywhere before that… Cmon - don’t be coy: we want to hear your qns and opinions… ---
**Author:** ![vkat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/59ef9b/32.png) [@vkat](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/vkat)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 1:21pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/4 "2007-03-11T13:21:21Z")
[quote=“saraunne, post:1, topic:2454”] Has anybody had this situation, or is in it now? Only all my life - and I’m 48. So funny you would bring this up. LadyT and I were just talking about this very subject and I said, “Do I even know what I look like?” in frustration. What she pointed out that is that everybody we meet sees us through their own filter too, and a lot of how they react is determined by past associations. Then there is advertising, and photo shop, the images we are given to lust after or wish to be, and the way real people look. I know everbody knows about the airbrush but unless you really see what happens with an image of even a young, beautiful woman, you cannot even imagine how altered these images are. You think you know, but you have to see the befores and afters in closeup, how every pore is removed, even on the back of the hand, etc. It’s just incredible. If you were a model, you would have to feel bad about never being as pretty as yourself, lol. It’s an interesting subject but I think everybody wants to be beautiful, whatever they think that is. And I think you have to keep your focus on being beautiful for you and no one else, or you will go crazy. ---
**Author:** ![blondoua69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@blondoua69](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/blondoua69)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 1:22pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/5 "2007-03-11T13:22:01Z")
I must admit Saraunne that you sound pretty much like me.Ever since I was a kid my looks bothered me and even though people were finding me very cute,when I hitted puberty things were sooo undesirable:my skin was a disaster (full of acne) and my hair became a frizzy mess.I looked so nasty ☹ and I got easily picked on 😠 .When I look back at old photos of me during that time (12-15)I almost feel like crying!thank god now I look much more better and a lot of people find me above average.there are still some days though that feel so ugly,I wont go out and I get obsessed with my appearance trying to fix something I think dont see in others (or think people will notice when in fact they dont).My folks keep telling me I should feel lucky that my flaws are easily corrected and that there are ugly and that average looking gals are so much more than pretty ones but they dont care.I think I belong something in between.What us gals do is having a tentency to judge our selves very stictly and find flaws out of nowwhere when in fact most of the time(NOT ALL THE TIME) are barely noticeable.noone’s born perfect unfortunately.but i believe theres no single normal human whos not bothered by his/her looks in some level.and some people may tell you things like awww whats that giant red thing on your chin or your lips look deadly pale e.t.c and your self estem falls into ground.I guess it depends how matture or shallow is the other person who sees and how much attention pays in details…VERY ANNOYING 😠 ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 1:41pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/6 "2007-03-11T13:41:17Z")
Well I am totally Hot!! LOL Just kidding. 😃 Saraunne, I have never met you or have seen a picture of you but I know your not ugly. Ugly comes from the inside of a person. My best friend all through high school was so pretty she was stunning. I on the other hand was average. She got alot of attention from the boys but there was one thing I always new about her that alot of people didn’t. She was UGLY on the inside and once she dated a guy for awhile they would discover that and dump her. Young boys are superficial and then they grow into men and discover the prettiest package can be openned and still stink. Some learn this sooner then others. My friend hit on my husband before we were married and I asked him why he didnt take her up on it. He said “shes ugly” I laughed and told him he was blind and he said I’m not talking about her face. I knew he was a keeper. 25 years later my friend, although I dont see her often, is un-married and hasn’t been able to even keep a relationship going long. She once asked me why I think guys dump her. I told her look in the mirror and tell me if your pretty. She did and said “I am freaking hot”. Now look inside yourself and tell me if your pretty? She did and ended up crying for an hour. Now that I am 40 I am still adverage. I worry about wrinkles and those stubborn 10 pounds. OK maybe 15 😮 but if you look at the total package inside and out I am totally hot!! So are you. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![sam17](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/sam17/32/1143_2.png) [@sam17](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/sam17)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 2:20pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/7 "2007-03-11T14:20:45Z")
i have always been one of those women who is moderately concerned with her looks . I think women are conditioned to do so. i am average looking, but most for the time feel below average looking. i really do think what you see on the outside comes from the inside. over the past year or 2 i was in a 5 year relationship that was on the downslide. i was vaguely unhappy and this somehow really effected my self-image. that,in combination with a stressful career (i own my own business) made me feel & hence, look ( in my eyes), inadequate, ugly. but i’m on my own now( freedom is a real beauty enhancer) and am begining to feel like myself again. (The relatioship was not a toxic unhealthy one, it just didn’t fit anyomore.) but i think sometimes when we’re enveloped in a relationship, career project etc. we tend to lose ourselves a bit and sometimes the result feels ugly. as i get older, i feel less interested in being seen as physically beautiful, but rather in being that woman who people are drawn to and can’t figure out why…i 'd rather be healthy and glowy and witty … the sexiness & beauty end up coming along on their own 😉 ---
**Author:** ![chirimoya](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/chirimoya/32/1538_2.png) [@chirimoya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/chirimoya)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 2:25pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/8 "2007-03-11T14:25:42Z")
This post could not be more in synch with how I’ve been feeling for the last year or so. Part of the incessant self-evaluation I’ve been doing has lead me to pheromones, so it seems full circle that now we’re talking about this here. As a younger person, I was very confident about my looks. I’m an only child, and always thought myself to be “different” than most around me due to my upbringing and background. I thought this extended to my appearance as well. Looking back, how you feel about yourself absolutely communicates to others, because you could say I went through the “looks obsession” self-talk crisis in reverse: it became worse for me the older I got. As a teen and young woman, I was confident and did not suffer the pangs most other girls my age did. But as I’ve gotten older, I’ve found that I have become more critical AND also want to assess myself against as much external data as possible. Is this a step in the wrong direction? It may be…but this is the phase I am at right now (the story ends well so stay with me if you are interested in all this self-analytical drivel LOL) Living in a major metropolitan area where there is probably a greater concentration of gorgeous than anywhere else in the US (along with great bodies, fabulous wardrobes, glamorous social lives, and exciting careers), I have become far more aware how I “stack up” compared to my peer group. This includes looks, body, social skills and awareness, etc. However, instead of turning it against myself as feeling like I don’t measure up, I think it’s helping me build myself into the person I want to be: accentuate and refine my strengths; work on and improve my weaknesses, turning them into lessons for growth. As for looks, Myspace, the internet, and the mainstreaming of porn (if you get a or have ever had a brazilian wax, you too have fallen prey to the normalization of porn aesthetics) have all played a part in it. As a woman, I think there is INTENSE pressure into having a sexy body, good looks AND the personality and career to match (at least where I live). On Myspace, people can photoshop and “angle photograph” themselves into gorgeousness, and the distanceness reinforced by the technology actually plays into creating mystery, intrigue, and a host of other factors that make e-flirting so easy for those who are into it. “America’s Next Top Model,” “American Idol” and a host of other reality shows have created stars and water cooler names out of Joe and Jill Schmoe, and also made very average people aware of how a good haircut, well applied makeup, and a toned body can literally SCORE POINTS with judges, so why not the rest of the public? It’s quite a cycle that it easy to get pulled into. Then there’s America’s obsession with youth and a society that promises instant or quick everything: lose weight fast!, earn $3000 a month from home!, speed dating!, 0% down for the first 3 years! Add in “affordable luxury,” condo fever across the country, and cosmetic “enhancement” for just about any “flaw” you could imagine and is it any wonder that Americans are tripping over themselves trying to be the next Real Housewife of Orange County? That is who “we” are as a people. Granted, it’s not all Americans that are that way, and I can’t speak for those who live in other countries, but the cultural conversation in the United States is obvious for anyone willing to open their eyes to it. Whether we participate or not, or how we bend the rules to fit our own ethics and aesthetics is another matter. Personally, I like to bend the rules, keeping my own ethics in place while still being aware of the larger cultural pressures that undoubtedly affect me (and I would be naive to think I am immune from them, or that those judging me are immune from them). Our worries about our looks then seem perfectly normal when it seems nearly everyone is obsessing over external factors (just don’t lift the covers to see the ruined credit, possible personality disorders that stem from so much narcissism and lowered self-esteem, and ruined relationships from having inflated expectations coupled with lack of effort!). As pheromone users, I think we are all highly aware of these factors, but we are looking for ways to elevate our game, stay ahead, or catch up, but thankfully most people here seem just as interested on building their internal attractiveness factor as making themselves more superficially appealing. Sorry for the long rant, but it’s, as Terrence Howard’s character said in “Hustle & Flow” – “it’s hard out here for a pimp” !! ---
**Author:** ![Lor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lor/32/759_2.png) [@Lor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Lor)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 2:26pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/9 "2007-03-11T14:26:38Z")
hmmm i always have to gather my thoughts on these topics. i come across as a cold feeling bitch sometimes and typing doesnt catch my tone or humor. i spent a good deal of my younger life feisty and wearing baggy clothing, i was determined to be the ANTI-PRETTY. i fought like a super hero against anyone dating me for my looks. the mixture of nationalities my sis and i are created tiny waists and D sized boobs. plain and simple,young guys did not date me for ME. so when i hear someone saying " i want to be apreciated for my outer beauty" i think to myself,thats ONLY because you percieve they dont already. no doubt your are worshipped in someone eyes,its always self-perception that distorts what we see which is in fact illusion. of course this applies to the men,its why we dig a man with confidence. you get older, you pop a few kids out (or dont,but omg if you do…) and suddenly you think “i cant believe i gave that much thought to my looks. no one told me everything changes at a point in the near future.” and then what happens? you start from SCRATCH looking for reasons to apreciate yourself again because competition for attention from men feels like the illusion that it is. _think about it,_ what is the priority in the eyes of someone who wants the looks to matter so much? its either A. self apreciation WHICH CAN NEVER be seen in the **looks**.they _fade_ chickypoos, **get over it**. or B. competition with other women to get the man that you want to notice you. you soon find out that you NEVER wanted him to notice you for your looks, all along you wanted to be seen for who you are on the inside. once you get him and its all about how you look, they are not so attractive anymore,_trust me_. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![sam17](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/sam17/32/1143_2.png) [@sam17](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/sam17)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 2:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/10 "2007-03-11T14:36:54Z")
> [@Lor](#): > > hmmm > i always have to gather my thoughts on these topics. > > i come across as a cold feeling bitch sometimes and typing doesnt catch my tone or humor. > > i spent a good deal of my younger life feisty and wearing baggy clothing, i was determined to be the ANTI-PRETTY. > > i fought like a super hero against anyone dating me for my looks. > the mixture of nationalities my sis and i are created tiny waists and D sized boobs. > > plain and simple,young guys did not date me for ME. > > so when i hear someone saying " i want to be apreciated for my outer beauty" i think to myself,thats ONLY because you percieve they dont already. > > no doubt your are worshipped in someone eyes,its always self-perception that distorts what we see which is in fact illusion. > > of course this applies to the men,its why we dig a man with confidence. > > you get older, you pop a few kids out (or dont,but omg if you do…) and suddenly you think “i cant believe i gave that much thought to my looks. no one told me everything changes at a point in the near future.” > > and then what happens? > > you start from SCRATCH looking for reasons to apreciate yourself again because competition for attention from men feels like the illusion that it is. > > _think about it,_ what is the priority in the eyes of someone who wants the looks to matter so much? > > its either > A. self apreciation WHICH CAN NEVER be seen in the **looks**.they _fade_ chickypoos, **get over it**. > > or > > B. competition with other women to get the man that you want to notice you. > > you soon find out that you NEVER wanted him to notice you for your looks, all along you wanted to be seen for who you are on the inside. > > once you get him and its all about how you look, they are not so attractive anymore,_trust me_. > > 😉 you rawk! ---
**Author:** ![Lor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lor/32/759_2.png) [@Lor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Lor)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 2:40pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/11 "2007-03-11T14:40:55Z")
> [@sam17](#): > > you rawk! great signiture,ha! ---
**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 2:52pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/12 "2007-03-11T14:52:34Z")
On feeling bad (about looks, or anything), when I was about twenty, someone challenged me this way:_There are times when you, or anyone, needs to spend some additional time thinking about him or her self, who they are, their situation._ _If you spend that time thinking “I am the bomb, I am kind and generous, I am better than sliced bread, I am a sexy 10, I have fresh-smelling breath” then what do people do? They piss on you from a great height and put you down. You don’t even have to say a word, and they will sense it._ _But, if you say or think “I am shite, I am lower than the lint in the navel of the earthworm, I don’t deserve to live, I am a scabby, pox-ridden whore, I look like I was beaten with an ugly stick” then how do people respond? They smile and say “Feel better!” and make cheer-you-up motions._ _So being depressed about something is usually just a socially acceptable way to spend some extra time thinking about yourself. But be careful, it can become a habit, and then it can trap you._ Now, is it possible to spend some time **objectively** thinking about individual looks, or doing something about it? Perhaps smiling for the camera, or making facial gestures that are sexy/inviting instead of repellant can be learned, just like throwing a baseball to second base on a steal can be learned. When tacitus mentioned an acting class about looking sexy on camera for soap operas, I wanted to register. ---
**Author:** ![Carrie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/carrie/32/1537_2.png) [@Carrie](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Carrie)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 3:10pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/13 "2007-03-11T15:10:40Z")
Great, wise and compassionate posts on this topic, I love it. Chirimoya, amazing post. Let’s just say I never worried about _losing_ my looks, lol. As a child I was always told I was smart, never pretty … and that’s just how it was, until college. I KNEW that if anyone loved me, if was for what’s on the inside. When I look at old photos now, I see that I was (except for some hideous stages!) merely average looking and sometimes even cute, but I was sure that I was ugly. I was in my mid 20s before one of the great loves of my life convinced me that in their eyes at least, I was not only pretty, but beautiful. And in photos from that time period, I see that she was absolutely right. Love illuminates, it lights you up and brings out all your individual beauty. Now at 49, an old married lady, I’m finding to my amazement that I am no longer exactly average … some people think I’m kinda hot (for my age, anyway!) ⭕p … just as I start to really see wrinkles and sags, people are telling me I’m hot, and 20-somethings are flirting with me. Ain’t life weird? A wise lover told me that often he’ll meet a woman and not be hugely impressed by her looks, but as he gets to know her, he may find her more and more attractive until sometimes he is actually stunned by her beauty. I suppose that makes him unusual to some degree … for a man (that’s not a put-down of men, it’s just that most of you are _so_ visual in this way). ---
**Author:** ![ilsa](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/ilsa/32/1552_2.png) [@ilsa](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ilsa)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/14 "2007-03-11T17:08:38Z")
I read this thread this morning before I took my shower, and it has been on my mind ever since. I wanted to gather my thoughts before I replied. VKat, when I read your reply, this video on Youtube automatically came to mind: https://www.youtube.com/embed/rJ9IPZLPGr4?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![Nunya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac8455/32.png) [@Nunya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Nunya)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 5:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/15 "2007-03-11T17:24:24Z")
> [@Lor](#): > > i spent a good deal of my younger life feisty and wearing baggy clothing, i was determined to be the ANTI-PRETTY. haha! I still do that now. Especially at work. I never thought I was pretty growing up. I was too different for my area, and my area was parochial. It took me going elsewhere to experience the full breadth of my “attractiveness”. And frankly sometimes it scared the bejesus out of me, and made it difficult to get everyday stuff accomplished. Nowadays, there are times when I let myself shine in all my glory, and extraordinary things happen, but most of the time I am the Anti-pretty. That way, at least, I feel that I get taken more seriously, and appreciated on the basis of my works, and not my looks. But all this external feedback doesn’t change how i feel on the inside. deep-down I’m still puzzled when some guy I find totally attractive finds me attractive back. But as other have said, people see you through the filters of their own perception. I have some huge “flaws”. Flaws that make me not everyone’s cup of tea. I tried to fit into the mainstream, like Chirimoya said, and eventually realized, there is no way that’s gonna happen. That was a character-building time. It was while i was getting over a bad breakup, one that had brought some physical illness thru stress, and I was trying to put the peices back together. I went into ED/OCD territory, I hated the mirror, I hated myself, I tried to control the hell out of every little damn aspect of my life. I basically had to talk myself back from the edge, and come to the realization that those who thought me beautiful didn’t think “i would be really hot if…\”, they thought I WAS really hot right here and right now, flaws and all. And who am i to second-guess them? Maybe that’s a realization that comes with age, maybe it comes with realizing the total futility of your particular situation, I don’t know. In any case - i’m at the point now, where I can value the superficial, and soemtimes revel in it, in myself and others, without thinking it’s the be all and end all, and not making a judgment one way or the other, you know what I mean? In my work life I’m still the anti-pretty most of the time, but it’s a conscious choice, knowing I can go back to being drop-dead gorgeous in the eyes of those who wish to see it any time I want. And no matter what, if anyone thinks all that I am is on that surface level, man are they in for a surprise. ---
**Author:** ![Carrie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/carrie/32/1537_2.png) [@Carrie](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Carrie)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 5:32pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/16 "2007-03-11T17:32:24Z")
Ilsa - wow. Just - wow. I would love to see your work. That video is great, too, and I found another short one on youtube that is really inspiring: [![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/pheromonetalk/original/2X/5/53b3dfaebb7f6f0bad0a3014f186a5b8fd5ad114.jpeg "Dove Real Beauty Commercial Featuring Voice of Layah Jane") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm1uNgHw6Xo) ---
**Author:** ![dolly](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dolly/32/1591_2.png) [@dolly](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dolly)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 8:02pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/17 "2007-03-11T20:02:35Z")
Well, I’m sure you all were wondering why I hadn’t chimed in on this one…well, maybe not…anyway, I’ve been playing and testing my mixes…but that story is in another thread…😃 Ok, let’s tell Dolly’s story about the “looks” issue. Get set, it’s a LONG rambling one… Well, I grew up with one older sister…she always had the face and body that the boys wanted (with the exception of the fact that she was a bit flat-chested)…I, on the other hand, was always short, sassy, and chubby, and rather plain (but with size D’s…go figure)…I didn’t get into all the makeup and frilly girly things…I preferred to just stick my nose in a book and ignore reality for a while. My sister was always regarded as the “pretty one”, with all the dates, and I was the “smart one” who didn’t really date until college (with the exception of prom and what-not). My self-image by the time I was 20 was really in the toilet. When I met my first husband, and realized that someone wanted to marry ME, I jumped at it…BIG MISTAKE…he was hostile and abusive, with a violent temper. My second was a charmer until the marriage…then he turned out to be even more abusive than the first…and the third…well, he was just an ASS, plain and simple. All three of these men had one thing in common…they played on what they knew I needed. For someone to tell me that I was PRETTY…and I fell for it…until I woke up, that is… Well, self-image problems had gotten me to where I was…not only just into unhappy relationships, but stress-eating until I got up to 213 pounds…YEP, I said 213…at 5’1"…NOT GOOD, PEOPLE. 😮 But, I took it off through proper diet and exercise…and, when I lost the weight, I was beating the men off with a baseball bat…I was booking up dates 2 weeks in advance, for the nights when my son was not with me. Well, in the past several years, my weight has gone up and down a few times…eating too much when I’m stressed, and not exercising when I physically could not due to 3 surgeries that I had within a 4 month period… I have met and dated a LOT of men…and, it still surprises me how many of them are SO FOCUSED on the outward features. My last long-term relationship was with a man who I thougt was different…he talked a really good game…BUT when my weight went back up due to stress eating and health issues, he cheated…and he says it was just because he didn’t find me attractive anymore…so, he wasn’t so different, after all…😠 So, where am I now? About 35-40 pounds over my ideal…and I am sure it will come back off with proper diet and exercise…again…but, you know what? Most importantly, I found ME again. The real me…the loud, funny, hot woman who lives inside me… I finally found a man who regards my weight as a NON-ISSUE. He fell in love with my personality and my exuberance for life. He (and all of his male friends) agree that I am one of the “hottest” women around (even with the extra weight)… **and they all say it is because of the way I carry myself…I am strong and confident, and I NOW KNOW what I will and will not accept from others. They tell me that this is probably one of the most attractive, sexy features that a woman can have.** YES, THIS STATEMENT CAME FROM MEN!!! And, just BTW…I met my man when I was NOT wearing pheromones. 😉 And, just for the record, this man is what my friends all term a “hottie” in the looks department…he could have practically any woman he wants…I have seen photos of some of the women he has dated…most of them are model-quality, absolutely drop-dead GORGEOUS…but, he continues to say that none of them hold a candle to me…😃 I learned something over the past 20 years… **that true beauty IS on the inside, just like the cliche says…outer beauty will NOT last** …you know, I don’t see my “pretty” sister very often, as we live in different areas of the country…but, I talked to her on webcam recently, and I’ve seen her new portraits that she had done…she is 43, and looks like she’s 50. She hasn’t taken care of herself, and has NOT aged gracefully. None of my friends believe that she is only 4 years older than me…hmmmmm, go figure… So, Saraunne…my advice…just try being YOU…when you feel good about YOU, it will show through, just like Ilsa said…I have been where you are now. I hated my looks, and pretty much hated myself because of it…and it got me into some bad situations that I would not wish on **ANYBODY**. Pheromones can help you with some of that confidence, but don’t try to rely on them too much. Use them on the days when you feel down or not so confident…leave them at home when your confidence is already “up there”…I do LOVE pheromones…😃 …BUT, I know that I am hot without them…they definitely intensify the situation, if you know what I mean… PLUS, it is just too much FUN watching people’s different reactions…😮 ---
**Author:** ![pherobeliever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/90db22/32.png) [@pherobeliever](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/pherobeliever)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 8:28pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/18 "2007-03-11T20:28:31Z")
> [@Nunya](#): > > But all this external feedback doesn’t change how i feel on the inside. **deep-down I’m still puzzled when some guy I find totally attractive finds me attractive back**. But as other have said, people see you through the filters of their own perception. This is the thing. I had the same feelings when I realized I was developing interest in my TargetGuy. I started out the journey thinking “Why would he like ME?” and did a lot of self-talk pep talks to get myself to the point where my thoughts are now, “Why WOULDN’T he like me?” If I’d kept questioning why he would like me, I would never have risked showing him my interest. If I had let my doubts about myself rule my thoughts at the beginning, I wouldn’t have realized that I am a _darned_ good person with a lot of love to give, a lot of interesting things to share, more going for me than I can express here. It was a relevation to realize that I am a _prize_. The thing I’m getting at here is that this realization was internal – it wasn’t something someone else told me (and if someone had, before I came to the realization on my own, I probably wouldn’t have believed them). It has taken me 49 years to get to the point where I can honestly say I love myself. This, I think, is what it takes to get past the puzzlement and past using an external mirror as we judge our looks. Ilsa wrote an extremely powerful post, Saraunne. Please read it and reread it, and let it speak to your heart. ---
**Author:** ![vkat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/59ef9b/32.png) [@vkat](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/vkat)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/19 "2007-03-11T21:03:57Z")
I can’t rep Lor again yet (love ya, Lor) and forgot to sign my rep for Ilsa (love you too) - this thread is making me feel very emotional. It’s wonderful to read but it’s making me cry and I wonder why? There’s a lot of pain around this issue for so many. The desire to be beautiful and create yourself as your own work of art is beautiful in itself to me - but something has gone wrong with it somehow and it’s hurting people. Men do agonize over their perceived flaws but they can still expect to be loved and special - but women - it is so ingrained in our culture, our myths, the heroine, the beloved one, is always the pretty one, whatever her other qualities. Then there is being traded-in for the newer model, consigned to the garbage heap with so many years left to live and love-it seems like such a waste. Physical beauty is wonderful and I do admire it in others and wish for it for myself, but this thing of looking at a whole unique soul before you as a collection of parts to be judged and rated and classified somehow seems a breathtaking arrogance. So I guess I shouldn’t even care what such a viewer sees. Probably their own fears. Now there is being unkempt or deliberately odd looking as a statement (my daughter is going through that right now and it’s a very natural thing, I think), where you feel the person WANTS you, dares you to think they look awful but probably that is just a defense and a challenge and I can understand that too. After I get over my initial shock they start looking OK to me if they act OK to me. I tend to SEE people the way I FEEL them, if that makes sense - I am not too sure I know what anybody I am really close to looks like either. It isn’t just blaming the outer judgers either, because most all of us harbor this desire, I think, to be beautiful to somebody we love. We want to be that for them whether they are demanding it from us or not. It’s a lot harder to do an end run around that one. I want that so much - I always have. I think part of us KNOWS we are beautiful and it wants so much to be seen, by others and by ourself. It’s just so frustrating. About two years ago I went shopping and I looked awful - no makeup, no shower, brushed my teeth and went. I remember walking through the mirror section and just cringing, every flaw exposed, even mirrors on the floor to show me how awful my legs looked in those shorts. I was so disgusted and disheartened. I never go out like that and don’t know why I did - I was trying to be brave, I think. I was standing in the garden part looking at some flowers and a man came in and was staring at me. He came over and said, I’m sorry, I just have to tell you - you are so beautiful. And I am backing up, thinking, Oh god, he made a mistake, now he sees that, surely. But he just kept looking at me and telling me, no really, you are that beautiful. He talked to me for awhile and asked me how old I was somewhere along the way and was a little shocked when I told him (I was quite a bit older than him) but said, no matter, you are just beautiful anyway. He gave me his number and left, very politely and respectfully. He was looking me right in the eyes up close and he was quite certain and there seemed to be no deception in him. I got in the car thinking maybe I was a little too hard on myself but when I looked in the mirror I saw the same ugly witch, and I have asked myself ever since, “What did he SEE?” Maybe he wasn’t a real man, lol. Maybe he was one of those angels people talk about. So - was I being beauty or was he seeing beauty or was it a combination? What was real? Is there “real”? 48 years and a million affirmations and wise philosophical self-talk and I don’t really have the answer to these questions or understand why beauty is so important to us or even exactly what it is. I know there is all the biological imperative waist-hip ration blah - blah but you know what? That is only THEORY and we accept it like fact because it sounds logical but it’s just another theory and there’s been lots of them over the ages that make us laugh pretty hard now. Ours will be no different to future generations. And you don’t have to look far to find exceptions to this particular theory anyway. I guess you just have to be true to your own beauty, your art of you, but when you’re the one that disapproves, what then? There is no judge on earth so harsh or cruel or unrelenting as the inner one, so I guess that sucker is the one that needs to be dealt with first, and probably the rest won’t matter if you do. What I can never seem to figure out is HOW you do that. You think you’ve asphixiated the damn thing and it pops back up right at the worst moment. Intellectually accepting something and really making the inner change that sticks are entirely differently things. The only real progress I’ve made with all this is that I no longer resent other people being beautiful or feel like it “takes” something from me. I’m glad they’re beautiful and I enjoy it and I know it’s separate from whatever I am. But I don’t know how to look in the mirror and say “yuck” and be OK with that. ---
**Author:** ![Nunya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac8455/32.png) [@Nunya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Nunya)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2007, 11:32pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454/20 "2007-03-11T23:32:19Z")
> [@vkat](#): > > I guess you just have to be true to your own beauty, your art of you. i wanted to give you points just for that turn of phrase, but I gotta spread the love. _sigh_ either way the admiration is mutual. 😉 [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/looks-yet-again-but-with-a-twist-i-swear/2454.md?page=2)