# Love and the Fallout effect on women by Pheromones **URL:** \ **Category:** Pheromone Theory & Molecules\ **Created:** [November 6, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/love-and-the-fallout-effect-on-women-by-pheromones/67470 "2017-11-06T15:44:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![datadragon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/datadragon/32/1252_2.png) [@datadragon](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/datadragon)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/love-and-the-fallout-effect-on-women-by-pheromones/67470/1 "2017-11-06T15:44:20Z")
From Cindy M Mason/David Buss Book, Why Women Have Sex ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/pheromonetalk/original/2X/7/79ecdf65bbaa91e0821b596e98ec7a706b6827e0.png) In the initial fallout phase of love there is around 40% lower serotonin levels… Androstadienone is a molecule that seems to lower serotonin based on my own research… Some was mentioned here: [https://pheromonetalk.com/t/major-success-story-with-androstandienone/67405](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/major-success-story-with-androstandienone/67405) Mood lifting molecules such as TAA, Androsterone Sodium Sulfate, DHEA, DHEA-S, Astaxanthin and others raise serotonin on the other hand, which is great for mood lifting and general blends, but I’m finding all of those counter the fallout potential of A-1 if used as [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/) at the same time, and with any other molecules that might lower serotonin. Pregnenolone was mentioned as a fallout killer as well. I was curious if any of those were ever added to later revisions of A314, but regardless this may offer a clue on what to avoid if specifically looking for the fallout effect … I wonder also if these women have already lower levels of serotonin or not … ---
**Author:** ![mobocaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mobocaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mobocaster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/love-and-the-fallout-effect-on-women-by-pheromones/67470/2 "2017-11-08T16:26:50Z")
I’ve never found TAA or [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/) any great hinderance to fallout - in fact IH/IS is a reasonable “entry level” fallout combo IME. No idea about the others but products with DHEA or DHEA-S have always been fallout-killers around A314 to varying degrees for me and I’ve got my own theory about Androsterone Sodium Sulfate - which by elimination is IMO a strong contender for a major component of another product that does not complement A314 at all well. The other major fallout killer that I’ve found is IO or higher doses of Alphanol but with of these are IME fully usable with A1 - although I’d call it more “crushy” than fallout. ---
**Author:** ![datadragon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/datadragon/32/1252_2.png) [@datadragon](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/datadragon)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/love-and-the-fallout-effect-on-women-by-pheromones/67470/3 "2017-11-09T01:35:42Z")
Imprint Vs Crush Vs Fallout To me, Imprinting is where the woman has positive emotions/memories they recall about you and your encounter after you separate. They can function normally without being around you just thinking of you in a positive light. A crush occurs when the female cannot obtain the person they feel strong attraction and bonding with, such as a teacher, celebrity, married guy, a guy of higher status ‘too good for them’.. Fallout is where they become possessive or even OCD about you and about being in your presence..Needing to be around you constantly. A small amount of fallout is ok if you are responding back. This can be feeling like someone is a soulmate and perfect for you and you are responding positively to these feelings back. They want to be in your presence and around you constantly but feel like they NEED you in their life. This is what I think people are after in a mix. Smaller fallout is things like calling, texting, sending letters, and emailing you. Being unable to be away from your presence might cause them to visit you at work or home unexpectedly. Trying to interfere with other relationships you have if you picked someone instead, or prevent others from going after you. Carrying a photo or something of yours even if you didnt agree to be in a relationship. The thoughts are like OCD and interfere with their normal behaviors and functioning when they are not around you. Fallout can continue however into very negative behavior/stalker/jealous behavior, usually caused by breaking off the contact after the bonding/attraction/love feelings. A woman has these feelings but can not act on them or get rid of them so they obsess. Thats my view of it, what do you think? So that article is basically saying that the OCD, Anxiety part etc is from lowered serotonin. So I thought to mention that things that lift mood and increase serotonin would counteract that. Thanks also Mobocaster for some testing validation on some of that. Did you see any OCD/Anxiety type effects when adding TAA/[Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/)? Perhaps they already had low serotonin… ---
**Author:** ![mobocaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mobocaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mobocaster)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/love-and-the-fallout-effect-on-women-by-pheromones/67470/4 "2017-11-09T19:15:28Z")
Yes, you do walk a bit of a tightrope with fallout IME - but if you keep your goals in mind and and articulate the clearly (in verbal and nonverbal ways), then you shoud be abe to concentrate on the attraction aspect instead of accumulating fawning followers/best friends/bunny-boilers. Although you do get the odd secondary fallout that you can’t really help but that’s all part of the learning process. More or less you need to screen-out mercilessly and concentrate on the most promising people over everyone else. I don’t do fallout mixes at work nearly as much as I used to - because I don’t feel I need to, although I will around a few people but more nonsexual mixes, for purely professional purposes. IIRC, lowered serotonin is implicated in a number of mental states that would contribute to or be expressed by a lot of the behaviour you describe - and some would also be actively salved by fallout effects. So it could also be a chicken/egg thing? Anxiety, yes but not from direct exposure to TAA or IS - more some way down the line when the crash hits - Which makes me wonder if a drop in Serotonin levels might be implicated? Also, I’ve found that keeping well fed and hydrated does help to significantly offset crash symptoms and diet is a major factor in serotonin production. ---
**Author:** ![datadragon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/datadragon/32/1252_2.png) [@datadragon](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/datadragon)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/love-and-the-fallout-effect-on-women-by-pheromones/67470/5 "2017-11-23T20:44:53Z")
> [@mobocaster](#): > > I’ve never found TAA or Instant Shine any great hinderance to fallout - in fact IH/IS is a reasonable “entry level” fallout combo IME. > > Anxiety, yes but not from direct exposure to TAA or IS - more some way down the line when the crash hits - Which makes me wonder if a drop in Serotonin levels might be implicated? If you are experiencing any type of fallout in the ‘ocd’ like manner I posted in the message above (or anxiety) with something like IH/IS only, then it does also seem to me that TAA/IS is initially raising serotonin but ultimately lowering it once it wears off or the body compensates causing anxiety etc. If that is the case it is more of a fallout inducer like A1 then to use as a counterbalance to things like A1. I do have notes from way back that TAA was used as a buffer in earlier A314 but unknown of course if it still is or dosing was changed higher or lower… Maybe TAA should be played with more again and could have been the reason for good fallout in say R20 or so… You could also try adding some TAA or IS only to A314 now and see if anything like that occurs which would be interesting… A314/TAA or possibly after even A314/TAA/P86 at around 30mcg might add some more imprinting after a couple exposures, again unknown to me if those two molecules work together or not… > [@mobocaster](#): > > IIRC, lowered serotonin is implicated in a number of mental states that would contribute to or be expressed by a lot of the behaviour you describe - and some would also be actively salved by fallout effects. So it could also be a chicken/egg thing? A woman who suffers from OCD, Depression, or likely also some Anxiety disorders would then already have an initial lower level of serotonin and be more likely to experience fallout effects as long as they were not taking drugs like SSRI’s. > [@mobocaster](#): > > Also, I’ve found that keeping well fed and hydrated does help to significantly offset crash symptoms and diet is a major factor in serotonin production. Protein in food contains the Tryptophan which is what Serotonin is made from… And if you have the cofactors like Vitamin B6 and Magnesium your body will make more serotonin from that. 5-HTP is converted from that and then used to make the serotonin… So far I’m thinking right now to try first to take for those who like to use A1 or possibly now IS/TAA would be some oral astaxanthin as needed, which increases serotonin brain levels in the hippocampus, frontal cortex, striatum and hypothalamus pretty well. Try it with IS/TAA also and see what happens… [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28424423](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28424423) ---
**Author:** ![datadragon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/datadragon/32/1252_2.png) [@datadragon](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/datadragon)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/love-and-the-fallout-effect-on-women-by-pheromones/67470/6 "2018-01-26T19:47:29Z")
What we call romantic love is in part the expression of biological factors. One of which as mentioned above in the fallout/inital phase of romantic love is the lowering of serotonin levels. Another biological link here I found in the Archives Italiennes de Biologie is that Nerve growth factor, but not other neurotrophins, increases in early-stage intense romantic love. In addition, at the beginning of a romance, they found a significant positive correlation between levels of NGF and the intensity of romantic feelings at the beginning of a romance. Evidence derived from in vitro experiments suggested that NGF may induce an increase of both release and content of hypothalamic vasopressin (Scaccianoce et al., 1993), a neuropeptide which plays a pivotal role in the formation of social bonding (Winslow et al., 1993; Kendrik, 2004). [https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/8d8b/ee2d0767f2b91f7f004227cd6dda01327e7d.pdf](https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/8d8b/ee2d0767f2b91f7f004227cd6dda01327e7d.pdf) There was reporting of some mild temporary depression in a few people in some past A314 revisions. And some of those revisions were known to create some fallout in the manner of my description above. Based on my first post, in my opinion then a steering molecule such as TAA may have been the catalyst. ---
**Author:** ![ScentHound](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/scenthound/32/1840_2.png) [@ScentHound](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ScentHound)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 12:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/love-and-the-fallout-effect-on-women-by-pheromones/67470/7 "2018-02-07T12:01:35Z")
Nice tread 🙂 What I have noticed is that the really hardcore old school type of fallout only seems to be associated with A314? Other pheromones just doesn’t quite manage to reach these levels. I know there’s one other competitors product that has been touted as inducing a form of obsessive, love-struck behavior in women, especially when combined with A1 but in my experience this product works just as much on the wearer as the recipient, something A314 seems to completely sidestep. So there doesn’t REALLY seem to be any alternative to A314 if the original, potent type of fallout is sought after, unless there’s something I’ve missed? Also, I recall monesmademedoit mentioning that a very small dose of TAF will enhance the fallout effect of A314. I know it’s already in A314 in a minute dosage but he talked about adding something like 5-10 mcg extra. I have tried this but unfortunately I haven’t been around any promising targets for a long while so my own testing of this hypothesis is inconclusive so far. ---
**Author:** ![monesmadedoit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/monesmadedoit/32/325_2.png) [@monesmadedoit](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/monesmadedoit)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/love-and-the-fallout-effect-on-women-by-pheromones/67470/8 "2018-02-08T19:22:51Z")
I wouldn’t exclude TAF in IH, but my tests show a putative at about 500 nanograms is responsible partly for making IH different from plain BNOL or CTTM. ---
**Author:** ![ScentHound](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/scenthound/32/1840_2.png) [@ScentHound](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ScentHound)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/love-and-the-fallout-effect-on-women-by-pheromones/67470/9 "2018-02-08T19:29:07Z")
> [@monesmadedoit](#): > > I wouldn’t exclude TAF in IH, but my tests show a putative at about 500 nanograms is responsible partly for making IH different from plain BNOL or CTTM. I know you’ve spent considerable time pondering this fallout phenomenon, so if you don’t mind, could you maybe share some of your thoughts on the matter? Why do you think A314 is so unique when it comes to triggering fallout? Thanks 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![monesmadedoit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/monesmadedoit/32/325_2.png) [@monesmadedoit](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/monesmadedoit)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/love-and-the-fallout-effect-on-women-by-pheromones/67470/10 "2018-02-08T19:47:43Z")
If people have experienced jealousy (i.e. hate jealousy, cat fight jealousy) using 314 or another alpha product plus small amounts of copulins, that would tell me what steering molecule would work in 314. It will also gay-ify 314 a bit though. ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/pheromonetalk/original/2X/9/97abe34d375394aa90473758999728d477660be3.png) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/pheromonetalk/original/2X/e/e28585ee3fcfed006f2d17c382be29120911f487.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![datadragon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/datadragon/32/1252_2.png) [@datadragon](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/datadragon)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:07am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/love-and-the-fallout-effect-on-women-by-pheromones/67470/11 "2018-02-27T04:07:00Z")
> [@ScentHound](#): > > I know you’ve spent considerable time pondering this fallout phenomenon, so if you don’t mind, could you maybe share some of your thoughts on the matter? > > Why do you think A314 is so unique when it comes to triggering fallout? > > Thanks 🙂 One thing I can think of is that most blends these days contain molecules that lift moods, and if that is increasing serotonin as I proposed it would counteract true fallout unless the person already had very low serotonin when used in higher ratios. At minimum for example, using DHEA-S or DHEA with A1 does lessen greatly the lethargy and depression on men and makes A1 usable a bit more often, but it lessens the crushy/fallout effect…Thats ok for a normal blend that has feel good properties just not for inducing true fallout. Even androsterone + b-nol can imprint, and several blends have imprinting and crushy feelings but a real OCD like fallout is pretty rare. So at the moment I’m left to think a true fallout version should be sold separately and maybe used only initially then infrequently rather then a daily use, as its always going to cause self effects as well of lowering serotonin in both people… Interestingly, I just noticed there was mention of depression in A314 club section. Anytime you see depression, it may indicate molecules are having lowering effect on serotonin. I’m sure we could counter it without losing the fallout with supplements instead which I’ve already tested a few. I think they should bring back A1 as well, it just needs to be understood its not something to use every day no matter whether you see neg effects or not. The obsessive thoughts feature you mentioned on the competitor blend in my testing I believe to be in part the molecule that I believe is P86 here. Interestingly there I found in solo testing all the features were two way, the beauty, the thinking about the other person so now I’m even more sure a lot has to do with that molecule… Wonder if the tiredness is a serotonin lethargy drain? P96 is also somewhat capable with less of the self effects. > [@monesmadedoit](#): > > I wouldn’t exclude TAF in IH, but my tests show a putative at about 500 nanograms is responsible partly for making IH different from plain BNOL or CTTM. Yes, IH description lists the same 3000 amount of total pheromones as IO but shows 3 instead of 2 molecules. So while IO is 15mcg/spray, 70% A-nol (10.5mcg)/30% B-nol (4.5mcg) per spray, and CTTM is 50-50 (7.5), IH isnt exactly just 70 B-Nol, 30 A-nol since a small amount of a third molecule is present. Small because the total phero levels are the same as IO. IH also imo does perform better then 2 competitor products that do not have this third molecule. Perhaps its a verbal disinhibitor and bonding like P97, or less likely P83, P79 or P85 which is said to be used in some consumer formulas and smooths over social mixes and enhances conversations, havent looked into it as its a good blend already made up… Personally, I had played around in various doses/ratios with Epiandrosterone, Beta-Nol, and Alpha-Nol (higher ratio), as well as Alpha Androsterone, Beta-Nol (higher ratio), Alpha-Nol, and P83 which interestingly completely killed the shields up and had women approaching and comfortable talking to me… And then combining that with things when I wanted it more sexual/attraction like Enone, Tuth, NPA or enone/cops or enone/A1 etc when I was playing around…