# Low Testosterone Might Shorten Men's Lives

**URL:** <https://pheromonetalk.com/t/low-testosterone-might-shorten-mens-lives/7430>\
**Category:** Lounge\
**Created:** [December 15, 2007, 3:21am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/low-testosterone-might-shorten-mens-lives/7430 "2007-12-15T03:21:18Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 16\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Mohammad\_Shah](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mohammad_shah/32/873_2.png) [@Mohammad\_Shah](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mohammad_Shah)\
**Post date:** [December 15, 2007, 3:21am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/low-testosterone-might-shorten-mens-lives/7430/1 "2007-12-15T03:21:18Z")

</div>

**By Ed Edelson**  
_HealthDay Reporter_  
TUESDAY, Nov. 27 (HealthDay News) – Men aged 40 or over with low levels of testosterone may be at increased risk of fatal heart attacks or death from any cause, a British study suggests.

In fact, “The magnitude of the effect was very similar to that of [high] cholestrol or blood pressure,” said lead researcher Dr. Kay-Tee Khaw, professor of clinical gerontology at the University of Cambridge School of Clinical Medicine.

However, more work is needed to see whether testosterone supplements should be recommended for men with naturally low levels of the hormone, she said.  
“We need to replicate these findings,” Khaw said. “We hope we can entice other investigators to look at testosterone levels and see if these findings are confirmed.”  
Her team published the findings in the Nov. 27 issue of _Circulation_.  
The study included more than 11,600 men ages 40 to 79 who were free of known cardiovascular disease and cancer at the start of the trial. It was done because “there have been lots of studies suggesting that low testosterone may not be good for health,” Khaw said. “So, we wanted to see if this could be demonstrated in a large population. Testosterone is hard to measure, the test can be expensive.”

The men were divided into four groups based on their blood testosterone levels.  
Those men in the highest quarter of testosterone readings – with at least 19.6 nanomoles of the hormone per liter of blood – had a 41 percent lower risk of dying over 10 years than those in the lowest quarter of testosterone readings – less than 12.5 nanomoles of testosterone per liter of blood.  
One major question is whether low testosterone is a risk factor itself or just a marker for other risk factors, said Dr. Victor Montori, associate professor of medicine at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn. He has done his own studies on testosterone replacement therapy.  
“It does not mean that replacing or normalizing levels of testosterone would reverse the outcome,” he said. “There are other hormones in the blood that are related to other risk factors, such as diabetes and hypertension.”

In any case, a testosterone replacement regimen “would not be a walk in the park,” Montori said. “It would be a major intervention.”  
According to Dr. Jorge Plutzky, director of the Vascular Disease Prevention Program at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, the experience of women taking hormone replacement therapy (HRT) shows that hormonal regimens can have their dangers.  
Beginning in the 1990s, millions of older American women took HRT, which replaced two female hormones, estrogen and progestin. Early trials had indicated that the therapy might reduce the risk of cardiovascular diseases such as heart attack and stroke in older women.  
Instead, the Women’s Health Initiative, a major study released in 2002, found that women taking HRT were at _increased_ incidence of stroke, blood clots and breast cancer, noted Plutzky, who is also a spokesman for the American Cancer Society. HRT prescriptions dropped off precipitously after the study’s release.

So, much more research is needed on the link between testosterone levels and mortality before doctors can recommend the regimen to men, Khaw said. Such studies might provide “insights and better understanding of disease mechanisms, such as how and why testosterone might be related to poorer health through, for example, insulin metabolism, lipid metabolism or inflammation,” she said.

SOURCES: Kay-Tee Khaw, MBBChir, professor, clinical gerontology, University of Cambridge School of Clinical Medicine, England; Victor Montori, M.D., associate professor, medicine, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minn; Jorge Plutzky, M.D., director, Vascular Disease Prevention Program, Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Boston; Nov. 27, 2007, _Circulation_

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**Author:** ![Warren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/97f17d/32.png) [@Warren](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Warren)\
**Post date:** [December 15, 2007, 5:50am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/low-testosterone-might-shorten-mens-lives/7430/2 "2007-12-15T05:50:27Z")

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All men over 50 should probably be taking supplemental testosterone. Your insurance probably won’t pay for it. You’ll need to get blood drawn and tested for hormone levels about every six months. You may have to take Anastrozole, a relatively safe estrogen blocker so testosterone doesn’t get converted into too much estrogen, which is very dangerous for men. You may want to take Clomiphene or hCG so your balls don’t shrivel up and lose the ability to produce your body’s own testosterone (and sperm). This will all cost over $200 per month.

Does it sound like too much of a hassle? the alternative is heart disease, prostate disease, diabetes, impotence and just plain getting old fast.

No, I’m not a doctor and this is not medical advice. But I do practice what I preach.

Women over 40, you seriously want to consider supplemental progesterone. Just be sure you get the natural, bioidentical progesterone. The synthethetic prescription stuff which your insurance might pay for is NOT what you want. These unnatural, progesterone analogs that drug companies can patent are what cause the deadly side effects you’ve read about. The natural progesterone creme is maybe $20 per month, no prescription necessary. Much easier than testosterone for men! You have no excuse. Do you want uterine fibroids, breat lumps, ovarian cysts, cancer, menstral irregularities in the extreme or severe, relationship-destroying psychological depression? Go to Amazon and get one of John R. Lee’s books.

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**Author:** ![Bella](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bella/32/1738_2.png) [@Bella](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Bella)\
**Post date:** [December 15, 2007, 12:45pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/low-testosterone-might-shorten-mens-lives/7430/3 "2007-12-15T12:45:51Z")

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Hi Mohammad and Warren!

Hope you fellas don’t mind me chiming in here!

You’re absolutely right about proper testing of hormone levels. Most accurate these days is a saliva test that most doctors and hospitals do not offer or make readily available to patients. But you can seek out some who do or find a lab that offers them. Aeron Life Cycles Clinical Laboratory is one. The lab won’t interpret the tests, you’ll have to find a doctor who’s willing to do so. Better still, if you can find a doctor who is willing to work with you by submitting an authorization form with the provider’s info and the diagnostic reason for testing to the lab, your insurance MAY cover it. Also, a compounding pharmacy in your area may offer saliva testing and consultation.

Your insurance will cover conventional blood testing for hormone levels. But unless you can get a doctor on board, to actually insist on saliva testing, I seriously doubt that you’ll get coverage. Out of pocket for saliva testing can get expensive quickly.

John R. Lee is THE MAN when it comes to natural bioidentical progesterone. He literally wrote the book! It’s called “What Your Doctor May NOT Tell You About Menopause” The Breakthrough Book on Natural Progesterone.  
Also, I highly recommend, “A Woman’s Guide to Natural Hormones” and “Natural Woman, Natural Menopause” both by Christine Conrad. Another great one is “The Wisdom of Menopause” by Christiane Northrup, M.D.

When deciding on a course of hormone supplementation I can not stress enough the importance of research. Though drugs like Premarin may work for some women many find the attendant side effects worse then the actual menopausal symptoms! The synthetic hormones in Premarin are derived from horse urine. Whatsmore if you knew how they extract the urine from these poor mares you’d be positively ILL!! Maybe it’s just me, but I’m not up for nor am I down with putting horse piss into my body! Whoever deemed THAT as an acceptable substitute for natural bioidentical hormones in MY body should be shot.

When the WHI reached the conclusion that women taking HRT were at increased risk of stroke, blood clots and breast cancer they were studying SYNTHETIC hormones. There’s a big dif between natural and synthetic. The synthetic hormones can never meet the “hormone receptors” in your body identically. Hence the attendant side effects. Your body just doesn’t know how to get rid of this sh\*t! However, the natural bioidentical hormones meet them naturally, perfectly, identically. So unless the dosage is way off, they’re are no side effects except the good ones.

Not to mention the fact that trying to get a doctor to prescribe them is an uphill battle! Some of them are willing if you know what to ask for and insist on it. I called THIRTY OB/GYN offices, in my area, looking for a physician, “who is familiar with and prescribes natural bioidentical hormones”. My answer from the receptionist? " I’m sorry, what was that term again?" Pathetic…really. The reason I was searching was because the OB/GYN I originally got them from decided to stop prescribing them! I called my compounding pharmacist who directed me to a nutritionist, also an M.D., who prescribed them. Unfortunately she turned out to be a bit of a whack job, so the search is on again. Meanwhile it’s good to know that while natural bioidentical estrogen is NOT available over the counter, good quality USP grade natural bioidentical progesterone is!

Also, if you supplement with estogen in any form, including horse piss, it should be balanced with the proper dosage of progesterone. If you follow a diet that includes protein at every meal, take vitamins such as omega three fatty acids (fish oils, ground flax seeds) antioxidants, calcium, magnesium, zinc, and some herbal supplements (chasteberry/vitex) along with exercise and natural bioidentical progesterone cream, estrogen may not be needed. Also, ladies, get your thyroid checked. Menopause and thyroid hormone deficiency go hand and hand. Read the books.

Whew, I’ve tired myself out… forgive me if I’ve ranted on… I didn’t mean to highjack this thread…but I’m passionate about this subject. If we continue to speak up and enough of us insist on proper testing and the type of treatment WE want, maybe just maybe, we’ll succeed in getting it.

I’m not that well versed in andropause and unfamiliar with the estogen blocker Anastrosole. So tell me gentlemen, when using Anastrosole, do you also use something in conjunction with it to boost your lagging (no offense here!) testosterone levels? Such as a transdermal natural bioidentical testosterone cream?

Testosterone is often suggested, along with estrogen and progesterone supplementation, to women of a certain age with sagging libidos. Yes, unfortunately the libido sags along with everything else! LOL! Thank God for camouflage and engineering!!

Well, it was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than two cents, but take it for what it’s worth!

Bella

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\
**Post date:** [December 15, 2007, 12:59pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/low-testosterone-might-shorten-mens-lives/7430/4 "2007-12-15T12:59:53Z")

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> [@Warren](#):
>
> All men over 50 should probably be taking supplemental testosterone. Your insurance probably won’t pay for it. You’ll need to get blood drawn and tested for hormone levels about every six months. You may have to take Anastrozole, a relatively safe estrogen blocker so testosterone doesn’t get converted into too much estrogen, which is very dangerous for men. You may want to take Clomiphene or hCG so your balls don’t shrivel up and lose the ability to produce your body’s own testosterone (and sperm). This will all cost over $200 per month.
> 
> Does it sound like too much of a hassle? the alternative is heart disease, prostate disease, diabetes, impotence and just plain getting old fast.
> 
> No, I’m not a doctor and this is not medical advice. But I do practice what I preach.
> 
> Women over 40, you seriously want to consider supplemental progesterone. Just be sure you get the natural, bioidentical progesterone. The synthethetic prescription stuff which your insurance might pay for is NOT what you want. These unnatural, progesterone analogs that drug companies can patent are what cause the deadly side effects you’ve read about. The natural progesterone creme is maybe $20 per month, no prescription necessary. Much easier than testosterone for men! You have no excuse. Do you want uterine fibroids, breat lumps, ovarian cysts, cancer, menstral irregularities in the extreme or severe, relationship-destroying psychological depression? Go to Amazon and get one of John R. Lee’s books.

good post. some women might want to replace testosterone too (responsible for sex drive in both men and women). in such a small dose, sublingual works well.

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**Author:** ![LaurieNY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bbce88/32.png) [@LaurieNY](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LaurieNY)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 12:05am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/low-testosterone-might-shorten-mens-lives/7430/5 "2007-12-20T00:05:47Z")

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See? Essence of Woman _helps the human race_.

If I wear copulins to the grocery store, I am lengthening the lives of the men around me!

I knew I was a charitable person. 🙂

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**Author:** ![Chartreuse\_Ice](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/chartreuse_ice/32/484_2.png) [@Chartreuse\_Ice](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Chartreuse_Ice)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 2:53am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/low-testosterone-might-shorten-mens-lives/7430/6 "2007-12-20T02:53:32Z")

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> [@LaurieNY](#):
>
> See? Essence of Woman _helps the human race_.
> 
> If I wear copulins to the grocery store, I am lengthening the lives of the men around me!
> 
> I knew I was a charitable person. 🙂

LOL! You’re a good woman, always thinking of others. 😉

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Bella](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bella/32/1738_2.png) [@Bella](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Bella)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 4:27am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/low-testosterone-might-shorten-mens-lives/7430/7 "2007-12-20T04:27:29Z")

</div>

> [@LaurieNY](#):
>
> See? Essence of Woman _helps the human race_.
> 
> If I wear copulins to the grocery store, I am lengthening the lives of the men around me!
> 
> I knew I was a charitable person. 🙂

…AND a very naughty girl…😃 !!! 😃 !!!

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**Author:** ![Mohammad\_Shah](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mohammad_shah/32/873_2.png) [@Mohammad\_Shah](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mohammad_Shah)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 1:58pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/low-testosterone-might-shorten-mens-lives/7430/8 "2007-12-20T13:58:20Z")

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> [@Warren](#):
>
> You may want to take Clomiphene or hCG so your balls don’t shrivel up and lose the ability to produce your body’s own testosterone (and sperm). This will all cost over $200 per month.

OMG!!!😮

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Mohammad\_Shah](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mohammad_shah/32/873_2.png) [@Mohammad\_Shah](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mohammad_Shah)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 2:00pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/low-testosterone-might-shorten-mens-lives/7430/9 "2007-12-20T14:00:03Z")

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> [@LaurieNY](#):
>
> See? Essence of Woman _helps the human race_.
> 
> If I wear copulins to the grocery store, I am lengthening the lives of the men around me!
> 
> I knew I was a charitable person. 🙂

I need to move to New York a.s.a.p!😃

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Mohammad\_Shah](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mohammad_shah/32/873_2.png) [@Mohammad\_Shah](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mohammad_Shah)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 2:13pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/low-testosterone-might-shorten-mens-lives/7430/10 "2007-12-20T14:13:34Z")

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> [@Chartreuse\_Ice](#):
>
> LOL! You’re a good woman, always thinking of others. 😉

Yeah! I certainly agree with that. Words ‘failed’ to describe how beautiful she is! I won’t be surprise if the flowers on the foothills of Himalaya envy her.😉

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![LaurieNY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bbce88/32.png) [@LaurieNY](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LaurieNY)\
**Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 12:41am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/low-testosterone-might-shorten-mens-lives/7430/11 "2007-12-21T00:41:34Z")

</div>

Okay, sweetest thing ever said on PheroTalk. 😛

Thank you, Mohammad. 🙂 🙂 🙂

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Bella](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bella/32/1738_2.png) [@Bella](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Bella)\
**Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 1:29pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/low-testosterone-might-shorten-mens-lives/7430/12 "2007-12-21T13:29:34Z")

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Thanks Mohammed, you did it again! 😉

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![tho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@tho](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tho)\
**Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 9:07pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/low-testosterone-might-shorten-mens-lives/7430/13 "2007-12-21T21:07:30Z")

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If any of you (male or female) have ANY hormonal problem, low testosterone, pms, or any of this, the following information is perhaps the greatest information you will ever here. If you decided to read a few hundred books like i have you would always be pointed to this direction:

Maca root:  
More than EXTREME hormonal booster, super nutritious. Incan warrior would eat this before going to war. I have read books on this plant and eat it everyday in very large amounts and this is no freaking joke. It boost your libido to the point of howling at the moon. Yhea, don’t eat this if you don’t have a partner to have sex with. I found this root to be extremely powerful for the blood type O when combined with red meat. Makes your muscles super hard, mind become sharp, focused and your libido feels like Starbuck the bull.

Goji berry:  
#1 food of the whole Chinese medicinal system, super protein source, super mineral source, super nutrient, _polysacchardies_, hormonal boosting fruit plant compounds and a list that goes on for miles. Effective in treating almost every problem from cancer to slow child development to low libido. I love this food, it’s a super medicine.

Avoiding all plastics, water bottles: xenostrogens.

Exercise according to your blood type.

Eating for your blood type.

Eating lots of hormonal supporting nutrients such as zinc and vitamin E.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Mohammad\_Shah](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mohammad_shah/32/873_2.png) [@Mohammad\_Shah](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mohammad_Shah)\
**Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 3:49am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/low-testosterone-might-shorten-mens-lives/7430/14 "2008-01-01T03:49:55Z")

</div>

Goji berry:  
#1 food of the whole Chinese medicinal system, super protein source, super mineral source, super nutrient, _polysacchardies_, hormonal boosting fruit plant compounds and a list that goes on for miles. Effective in treating almost every problem from cancer to slow child development to low libido. I love this food, it’s a super medicine.

Avoiding all plastics, water bottles: xenostrogens.

Exercise according to your blood type.

Eating for your blood type.

Eating lots of hormonal supporting nutrients such as zinc and vitamin E.

[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c5/Wolfberries\_on\_vine.jpg/265px-Wolfberries\_on\_vine.jpg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wolfberries_on_vine.jpg)

Goji

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Mohammad\_Shah](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mohammad_shah/32/873_2.png) [@Mohammad\_Shah](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mohammad_Shah)\
**Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 3:52am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/low-testosterone-might-shorten-mens-lives/7430/15 "2008-01-01T03:52:45Z")

</div>

> [@thomaslavoie](#):
>
> Goji berry:  
> #1 food of the whole Chinese medicinal system, super protein source, super mineral source, super nutrient, _polysacchardies_, hormonal boosting fruit plant compounds and a list that goes on for miles. Effective in treating almost every problem from cancer to slow child development to low libido. I love this food, it’s a super medicine.
> 
> Avoiding all plastics, water bottles: xenostrogens.
> 
> Exercise according to your blood type.
> 
> Eating for your blood type.
> 
> Eating lots of hormonal supporting nutrients such as zinc and vitamin E.

[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c5/Wolfberries\_on\_vine.jpg/265px-Wolfberries\_on\_vine.jpg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wolfberries_on_vine.jpg)  
Goji berries

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Mohammad\_Shah](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mohammad_shah/32/873_2.png) [@Mohammad\_Shah](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mohammad_Shah)\
**Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 3:56am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/low-testosterone-might-shorten-mens-lives/7430/16 "2008-01-01T03:56:28Z")

</div>

**What are goji berries?**

Other Names: Lycium barbarum, wolfberry, gou qi zi, Fructus lycii

Goji berries grow on an evergreen shrub found in temperate and subtropical regions in China, Mongolia and in the Himalayas in Tibet. They are in the nightshade (Solonaceae) family.

Goji berries are usually found dried. They are shriveled red berries that look like red raisins.

**Why do people use goji berries?**

Goji berries have been used for 6,000 years by herbalists in China, Tibet and India to:

- protect the liver
- help eyesight
- improve sexual function and fertility
- strengthen the legs
- boost immune function
- improve circulation
- promote longevity  
Goji berries are rich in antioxidants, particularly carotenoids such as beta-carotene and zeaxanthin. zSB(3,3) **Sponsored Links**

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One of zeaxanthin’s key roles is to protect the retina of the eye by absorbing blue light and acting as an antioxidant. In fact, increased intake of foods containing zeathanthin may decrease the risk of developing age-related macular degeneration (AMD), the leading cause of vision loss and blindness in people over the age of 65.

In recent years, goji juice has become popular as a health beverage. Companies marketing goji juice often mention the unsupported claim that a man named Li Qing Yuen consumed goji berries daily and lived to be 252 years old. Marketers also list extensive health benefits of goji juice, even though there are few published clinical trials in humans.

\*\ ***What research has been done on goji berries?**

\*\*Goji has only been tested on humans in two published studies. A Chinese study published in the Chinese Journal of Oncology in 1994 found that 79 people with cancer responded better to treatment when goji was added to their regimen.

There have been several test tube studies that show that goji berry contains antioxidants and that goji extracts may prevent the growth of cancer cells, reduce blood glucose, and lower cholesterol levels. However, that doesn’t necessary mean that goji will have the same benefits when taken as a juice or tea.

Although goji berries like the ones used in traditional Chinese medicine aren’t very expensive, goji juice is very pricey. Considering that a 32-ounce bottle of goji juice (about an 18-day supply) can run as high as $50 USD, the evidence isn’t compelling enough at this time to justify the cost of goji juice.

Also, we don’t know the side effects of regular goji consumption, or whether it will interfere with treatments or medications.

**What do goji berries taste like?**

Goji berries have a mild tangy taste that is slightly sweet and sour. They have a similar shape and chewy texture as raisins.

**Common forms**

In traditional Chinese medicine, goji berries are eaten raw, brewed into a tea, added to Chinese soups, or made into liquid extracts.

Goji juice is also available, usually in 32-ounce bottles.

**Possible drug interactions**

Goji berries may interact with anticoagulant drugs (commonly called “blood-thinners”), such as warfarin (Coumadin®). There was one case report published in the journal _Annals of Pharmacotherapy_ of a 61-year old woman who had an increased risk of bleeding, indicated by an elevated international normalized ratio (INR). She had been drinking 3-4 cups daily of goji berry tea. Her blood work returned to normal after discontinuing the goji berry tea. **Where to find goji berries**

Whole goji berries are available at Chinese herbal shops.

Goji juice can be found in some health food stores, online stores, and through network marketers.
