# mate quality and sperm competition **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [October 6, 2007, 4:59pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/mate-quality-and-sperm-competition/5892 "2007-10-06T16:59:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 4:59pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/mate-quality-and-sperm-competition/5892/1 "2007-10-06T16:59:06Z")
[Gene Expression: Beggars can’t be choosers: sperm competition](http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/10/beggars-cant-be-choosers-sperm.php) I wonder to what extent phero sig influences perception of female reproductive quality. Here is an “interesting” paper, [Changes in Sperm Quality and Numbers in Response to Experimental Manipulation of Male Social Status and Female Attractiveness](http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/resolve?id=doi:10.1086/521955&erFrom=-1130868522905948424Guest): Here we show in the fowl _Gallus gallus_, where social status determines copulation success, that dominant males produce more sperm than subordinates but that the quality of dominant males’ sperm decreases over successive copulations, whereas that of subordinates remains constant. Experimentally manipulating male social status confirmed that ejaculate quality (the number and quality of sperm produced) was a response to the social environment rather than the result of intrinsic differences between dominant and subordinate males. **We further show that dominant males responded to variation in female sexual ornamentation, which signals reproductive quality, _by adjusting the number and quality of sperm they transferred_, whereas subordinate males did not: they transferred ejaculates of similar quality to females with different ornament sizes**. These results indicate that trade-offs between traits influencing reproductive success before and after copulation, combined with variation in social dynamics and female quality, may favor the evolution of phenotypically plastic alternative reproductive strategies. **Related:** [Sperm competition](http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=sperm+competition&btnG=With+Google&domains=gnxp.com&sitesearch=gnxp.com).Labels: [Evolution](http://www.gnxp.com/blog/labels/Evolution.php) ---
**Author:** ![flaming](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/flaming/32/212_2.png) [@flaming](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/flaming)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2007, 3:31am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/mate-quality-and-sperm-competition/5892/2 "2007-10-07T03:31:07Z")
If i understand rightly what you mean to say is that altering ones [pheromone](https://a314.com/shop/) signature to be more dominate will affect the wearer on a biological level as it attracts more quality females. Attracting higher status females and having choice one will naturally claim them as mates Whereas a more beta signature will tend to claim sexually whatever they can regardless of biological status. I remember going into something like this with jvkohl.Im sure he will have something fascinating to contribute here. Please correct me if iv got it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Savinien](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/savinien/32/1310_2.png) [@Savinien](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Savinien)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2007, 4:42am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/mate-quality-and-sperm-competition/5892/3 "2007-10-07T04:42:27Z")
> [@PheroQuirk](#): > > **dominant males responded to variation in female sexual ornamentation, which signals reproductive quality, _by adjusting the number and quality of sperm they transferred_, whereas subordinate males did not: they transferred ejaculates of similar quality to females with different ornament sizes** So, alpha males choose special-looking females (read that ‘special smelling,’ if you like), BUT these alpha males give these special females front-loaded \ good sperm first, with lesser sperm for subsequent females. [Special females use-up the good qualities of the alpha male before passing him on to the next mate.] Non-alpha males give all their mates about the same treatment. Do they say if the non-alpha males produce fewer or less healthy progeny? If the alpha males get the “best” females (highest quality - whatever that means in this context), that implies these special matings mightproduce the most or best progeny, right? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![flaming](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/flaming/32/212_2.png) [@flaming](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/flaming)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2007, 5:17am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/mate-quality-and-sperm-competition/5892/4 "2007-10-07T05:17:37Z")
> [@PheroQuirk](#): > > I wonder to what extent phero sig influences perception of female reproductive quality. Well practically all i can say is Im 40 and my present lover is 25, Eurasian.fit.intelligent (doing her thesis) and incredibly sexy not just to me but to most much younger males Im noticing.😉 and her natural fragrance is heavenly! She is the kind of girl i attracted ten years ago but thanks to knowledge of [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/) ect; its still happening! What im seeing is the more attractive ones own sig the more ‘CHOICE’ one has with females with very attractive phero sigs.Ones sig is’nt everything its got a lot to do with ones game and confidence too and as ones confidence really increases one just do’nt need contrived game anymore. As for the reproductive quality, at least for me, im about as aware of it as a rooster lol I know what i like and how to get it. ---
**Author:** ![flaming](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/flaming/32/212_2.png) [@flaming](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/flaming)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2007, 5:33am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/mate-quality-and-sperm-competition/5892/5 "2007-10-07T05:33:25Z")
> [@Savinien](#): > > Do they say if the non-alpha males produce fewer or less healthy progeny? If the alpha males get the “best” females (highest quality - whatever that means in this context), that implies these special matings mightproduce the most or best progeny, right? > 😕 What chickens or humans 😮ol beautiful plumage lol I know guys who have had hundreds of girls and no children at all! And beta’s with nine or more um not chickens humans i mean ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 10:06pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/mate-quality-and-sperm-competition/5892/6 "2007-10-11T22:06:28Z")
> [@flaming](#): > > If i understand rightly what you mean to say is that altering ones pheromone signature to be more dominate will affect the wearer on a biological level as it attracts more quality females. > Attracting higher status females and having choice one will naturally claim them as mates Whereas a more beta signature will tend to claim sexually whatever they can regardless of biological status. > > I remember going into something like this with jvkohl.Im sure he will have something fascinating to contribute here. > > Please correct me if iv got it wrong. there is no doubt in my mind that pheromones have the potential to influence one’s own conscious and unconscious sense of one’s own status and ‘state’/sense of what socially one is permitted to do. (a la Tyler Durden’s ebook). what the article was addressing is that alphas give much more of themselves to initial copulations with ‘hot’ females than to subsequent copulations or copulations with less ‘hot’ females. this seems to be the flipside of the idea that a female is more likely to be impregnated after extra-pair coupling with a dominant male than with a within-pair coupling with a non-dominant male. it’s my sense that in the animal world mating outcomes are much more unequal than in our society today. if one replaces ‘males who are getting some’ for alpha then i would say very subjectively the article fits with my own exerience over time. (one’s sense of one’s own status fluctuating due to a myriad of reasons, and status possibly just being a proxy for frequency of mating with different females). ---
**Author:** ![flaming](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/flaming/32/212_2.png) [@flaming](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/flaming)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 3:10am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/mate-quality-and-sperm-competition/5892/7 "2007-10-12T03:10:28Z")
Sorry Tyler Durden is not someone i respect Yes PheroQuirk I understand the idea of that study.What i was attempting to do was understand how pheromone use relates to it as you hinted at.I just want to look at the implications more practically. I’m aware of the concept that women will tend to “mate” with dominant males and will let the betas bring up the children. Also im aware that women will tend to be more attracted to dominate males while ovulating as studies have proven What seems interesting to me is that what is implied here is that dominate males are far more likely to “cheat” than betas.Betas predictably tending toward the boring hubby type. Therefore its evident that dominate males will have more partners and breed more.Whereas betas will stay in sexless marriages because they simply have far less choice. ---
**Author:** ![flaming](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/flaming/32/212_2.png) [@flaming](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/flaming)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2007, 8:03am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/mate-quality-and-sperm-competition/5892/8 "2007-10-12T08:03:04Z")
Actually what really stands out in this article is how “alphas” have more choice with women so its natural that they move on after a while and not bother with breeding with lower biological status females. The beta has less choice therefor he will tend not to stray and will take what he can get normally choosing females not coveted by the alpha As regards how ones phero sig influences perception of reproductive quality Im really not sure what you mean! Iv never consciously chosen a women based on their reproductive quality However i might have ‘unconsciously’ done so.Certainly if i did it wouldn’t be some skanky party girl id choose.Id want a very healthy, caring, responsible and intelligent mate. Actually im fortunate to have a child with such a women although i no longer live with her.