# Miracle in the bottle!

**URL:** <https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078>\
**Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\
**Created:** [February 17, 2007, 5:44am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078 "2007-02-17T05:44:39Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![No1up](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ad7895/32.png) [@No1up](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/No1up)\
**Post date:** [February 18, 2007, 3:03am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/21 "2007-02-18T03:03:11Z")

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Thanks for your info/input steveo I thought it was a good read and went back to read it all this time 🙂

I hope that people are smart anough to know if you are out of shape and don’t take care of your self, and don’t even try to fix your self then pheromons are not going to do all the work for you. I leave my heart and soul in the gym and I love it when people tell me I’m fit, trust me it did not use to be that way. Start with your health first and formost. I can’t wait for my test pack to get here, if I see any thing in my life change (for the good) that I think it is because of the pheromons then I will be buying again and again.

I’ll still be at the gym and will always be working on my self!!

Ksage your a good guy man 🙂 and I understand what you are saying. I am so new to pheromons that I can’t say any thing, all I can say is “I hope they work for me?” Really I need some thing to break the ice, who knows. Steveo would you PM me what DVDs I should look at and where I should get them? Also what Pheromons you have used and think I should use as a first timer.

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**Author:** ![MarkL](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/markl/32/825_2.png) [@MarkL](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MarkL)\
**Post date:** [February 18, 2007, 10:40pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/22 "2007-02-18T22:40:34Z")

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> [@kSage](#):
>
> What was the point of this post?

As I understood it, steveo was bored and chose to write something for the benefit of himself and other forum users.

> [@kSage](#):
>
> It sounds like you are saying pheremones totally work and anyone who thinks otherwise just isn’t picking up on the incredibly subtle signs of their effect,

And saying that would be wrong how? It’s an opinion, not a scientific conclusion.

> [@kSage](#):
>
> except that of course they don’t work on anyone who knows you

or perhaps they work differently, or less obviously, or …

> [@kSage](#):
>
> and they won’t help you be something that you aren’t already.

I would think that experience with pheromones would be an occasion for personal growth and development – but I don’t think such growth happens because you shake some drops on your chest, or spray from a bottle. Perhaps the personal development comes from what one observes and learns from the experiences that follow from such use.

> [@kSage](#):
>
> (For most people that would be the definition of not working.)

Not having surveyed a majority of people on this matter, I can’t comment on the conclusion that your description is the conventional definition. Do molecules convey a chemical message to the one who senses the presence of the molecule? If so, then I say that the molecule “works”.

> [@kSage](#):
>
> I also find it offensive that the only explanation you find for someone not noticing results with pheromones is that they are not a good enough observer.

I’m curious to know how this opinion or explanation, if it is in fact the true opinion of steveo, offends you.

> [@kSage](#):
>
> I’m glad you are accomplished at observing details and nuances of behavior, but don’t think for a second you are the only one with this ability.

Hmmm, when I read his post, I didn’t interpret steveo’s comments as making this claim. I’m wondering how you come to that conclusion.

> [@kSage](#):
>
> Don’t give me the “I know pheremones work so if you can’t see it you must be blind” excuse because you’ve just listed a bunch of ways/reasons pheremones don’t work, plus there’s also issues of how they are applied, in what doses, in what mixtures, how long and in what environment other people come into contact with them, what your natural pheremone signature is like, what your natural personality and body language are like, etc., etc.

All right! We’ve heard your wishes on this subject, but I don’t feel bound to obey your dictates on what is germane to the matter. You are welcome to say _“Don’t give me this …”_ but everyone is also welcome to consider your wishes, or not.

> [@kSage](#):
>
> If you want to “question motives if you don’t see any results from pheromones” go ahead, but please keep it to yourself.

_ **I do not concur** _, I encourage you to **not** keep it to yourself – this to steveo and to anyone else who is making an observation in good faith.

> [@kSage](#):
>
> This forum is a place to be helpful, not for attacks on people’s character.

Perhaps what is helpful and what is an attack on character is subjective.

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**Author:** ![LastTry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@LastTry](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LastTry)\
**Post date:** [February 18, 2007, 11:56pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/23 "2007-02-18T23:56:40Z")

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All i can say is that steveo’s posts have been great. I have enjoyed every single one of them since he started while waiting for my order to come (its been around 3 weeks waiting - should be here this week for sure i hope)

So yeah while reading them it really has helped me with the do’s and donts on what to do and how to use them.

Dont listen to the critics steveo. You are champion - keep up the good work. Would be better if we ignored or deleted the bad posts as it just ruins the thread and makes it harder to get information to learn from others success / mistakes.

So if you have anymore steveo - keep the info comming.

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**Author:** ![dma](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dma/32/1459_2.png) [@dma](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dma)\
**Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 2:22am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/24 "2007-02-19T02:22:22Z")

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First off, I’ll hop on the Stevo fan wagon – you express yourself beautifully and choose your words carefully, which is 9/10th’s of the battle right there.

ksage has a point, but perhaps sharpened it a bit fine for some to take. I can read some negativity into both the original post, and ksage’s – if I chose to.

The 315 man, or the bespeckled nerd is just going to confuse everyone he comes in contact with if he’s bathed himself in a George Clooney phero-signature. At the end of the day, none of us is going to be James Bond – but we can still enjoy our martini.

And if my pheros help keep my women shaken, why stir up trouble grousing over how they got that way? It’s all good.

Keep it up Stevo! Keep 'em honest, ksage. Have fun everybody!

D

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**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\
**Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 2:28am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/25 "2007-02-19T02:28:45Z")

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Thanks guys for being supportive of my post here. My intention, as I already said, was to pass along knowledge I believe is of value.

I do disagree with the point of deleting negative posts though just because this is exactly what Ksage wants to do. Who is to say what’s right and wrong when it comes to opinions. I prefer to live in a world where there are conflicts and differences. Not becaus I am a sadist, yet because my opine’s are subject to other users thoughts. One sided threads are always available in Communist China, SO I’ll prefer to keep my points coming. I welcome and appreciate different perspectives as long as they are based on truths rather than personal attacks.

MarkL: I found your reply to Ksage to be an example of what this forum represents. Open, honest debate encouraging debate.

Once again thanks for all the support and I do hope this post will help someone who might not be experiencing the wonders of pheromones only because they don’t know what to look for.

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**Author:** ![kSage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kSage](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/kSage)\
**Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 6:52am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/26 "2007-02-19T06:52:31Z")

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> [@steveo](#):
>
> I do disagree with the point of deleting negative posts though just because this is exactly what Ksage wants to do.

1. I don’t want to delete negative posts, and
2. if I did, why would my desire be a reason to oppose it?

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**Author:** ![Jasmin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jasmin/32/287_2.png) [@Jasmin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jasmin)\
**Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 7:09am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/27 "2007-02-19T07:09:34Z")

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Kids! Quit bickering! I’m going to bite all your cheeks if you keep it up!

😛😛😛

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**Author:** ![toilofday](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/toilofday/32/371_2.png) [@toilofday](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/toilofday)\
**Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 7:22am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/28 "2007-02-19T07:22:21Z")

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Can you sign up for cheek biting? Sounds kinda kinky 😛

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**Author:** ![kSage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kSage](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/kSage)\
**Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 7:22am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/29 "2007-02-19T07:22:51Z")

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> [@MarkL](#):
>
> > [@kSage](#):
> >
> > I also find it offensive that the only explanation you find for someone not noticing results with pheromones is that they are not a good enough observer.
> 
> I’m curious to know how this opinion or explanation, if it is in fact the true opinion of steveo, offends you.

It’s an _ad hominem_ attack against anyone who disagrees with Steveo’s observation. In other words, it says “I’m right and if you think I’m wrong it is because you are incompetent.” It is not a statement that invites open honest debate. It is disrepectful of people with an opposing point of view and I find that offensive.

> [@MarkL](#):
>
> > [@kSage](#):
> >
> > I’m glad you are accomplished at observing details and nuances of behavior, but don’t think for a second you are the only one with this ability.
> 
> Hmmm, when I read his post, I didn’t interpret steveo’s comments as making this claim. I’m wondering how you come to that conclusion.

Well, it was putting together comments like these:

> [@Steveo](#):
>
> I wonder how many of you when you say nothing happened while wearing this stuff, even knew what to look for?  
> …  
> I highly recommend getting a book and studying body language or you will miss it.  
> …  
> I am very good at watching for tiny little signals of body movements that mean so much.  
> …  
> I continue to read posts about not noticing anything, so I will repeat: Every single movement of the human body has a meaning.

Taken as a group, they say to me “I am accomplished at observing details and nuances of behavior and if you don’t see the results of pheremones it is because you are not so accomplished.” (Steveo continues in this vein with the more recent “I do hope this post will help someone who might not be experiencing the wonders of pheromones only because they don’t know what to look for.”)

> [@MarkL](#):
>
> > [@kSage](#):
> >
> > If you want to “question motives if you don’t see any results from pheromones” go ahead, but please keep it to yourself.
> 
> _ **I do not concur** _, I encourage you to **not** keep it to yourself – this to steveo and to anyone else who is making an observation in good faith.

Do you really? There is a difference between saying “I always see results from pheremones” and saying “there must be something wrong with you if you don’t see results from pheremones.” I’m objecting to the latter, not the former.

> [@MarkL](#):
>
> Perhaps what is helpful and what is an attack on character is subjective.

Obviously this is so.

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**Author:** ![toilofday](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/toilofday/32/371_2.png) [@toilofday](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/toilofday)\
**Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 7:58am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/30 "2007-02-19T07:58:33Z")

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Hi Ksage. I was looking at this thread wondering how you came up with your thoughts. Now I understand.

I can see that one could enterprit steveo’s statements in a derogitory fashion if you look at them in the manor you are presenting.

I can also see the post in the light of a person who believes the products work, but are confused as to why they aren’t getting results.

If you look at the post from the eyes of the later, the post is not offensive at all. It’s informative.

Let me set up a hypothetical situation.

I’m a new user who just started using my products do increase my sexual apeal because I don’t have much game. I believed the products worked before I purchased them. Science ensures us that pheromones have an effect in interperson communication. When I read through the forum, I saw some very strong results posted by other users. I want the same results so I begin to question how i’m using my products. Then I begin to think, “What if they are working and i’m not acting on it? How do I know who has been effected so I can act? I’m not seeing results and I should be, because other users get awsome results with the same stuff at the same dose!”

I then read steveo’s post and many things are cleared up and I have a base to start learning from. I find out some info on body language, and that I may need to research. I understand that my body chemistry my be affecting my dose and I should experiment with the levels I apply. Perhaps i’m expecting to much from the products, and need to use them in conjunction with other methods. Maybe I should work on improving my outward appearance. Perhaps i’m not acting congruent to my pheromones. May game my be a little weak and I should look into that Mystery Method thing.

The biggest things I would take away from this post would be:

Peromones are an aid, or a helping hand. They don’t do all the work.

If i’m not presenting myself as a desirable, then I shouldn’t expect the pheromones to pick the slack. They aren’t magic.

In my self improvement journey to become the disriable person I aspire to be, pheromones can help me travel down the path.

I do get where you are coming from. I don’t feel that steveo was attempting to present himself as high and mighty, but rather to be helpful to the people are are searching for answers to their lack of results.

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**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\
**Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 4:04pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/31 "2007-02-19T16:04:57Z")

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OK some of you read my original post here and I have edited it to mantian my happy self. I love being happy!

Enough of this nonsense, as that is what it is.

Ksage, you say:

> [@](#):
>
> If you want to “question motives if you don’t see any results from pheromones” go ahead, but please keep it to yourself. This forum is a place to be helpful, not for attacks on people’s character.

If this is your belief why does it apply to everyone you deem unfit to post, but clearly not you when you are questioning my motives? Please explain why you are exempt.

I’m sorry no one commented to you about how much weight you lost or asked about the mood you were in. Trully I feel your pain. So how much weight did you loose and what’s up with your mood? It’s funny I lost over 115 lbs and I don’t need my accomplishments validated by others comments. I also am always in a great mood (life is wonderfull) so someone commenting on my mood would be out of the ordinary. That’s where you missed the boat: out of the ordinary responses to pheromone signatures rarely ever happen. They are more subtle, like body language movements.

I would guess the 14 rep points I received for this post means some actually did find it usefull.

Thanks again for everyone’s support.

Jasmin any time you want to bite me I’m totally game except I do bite back. You’ll love it.

Now I go drink some [Instant Shine](https://a314.com/product/shine/) while saying Jasmin backwords three times at midnight in a full moon in the dark.

I heard if you do, the lovely pheromone queen will appear and do wicked things. Muh hah hah hah

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**Author:** ![Lor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lor/32/759_2.png) [@Lor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Lor)\
**Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 4:22pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/32 "2007-02-19T16:22:01Z")

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wow ksage, you could learn ALOT from TIOLOFDAY!!!

> [@](#):
>
> The biggest things I would take away from this post would be:
> 
> Peromones are an aid, or a helping hand. They don’t do all the work.
> 
> If i’m not presenting myself as a desirable, then I shouldn’t expect the pheromones to pick the slack. They aren’t magic.
> 
> In my self improvement journey to become the disriable person I aspire to be, pheromones can help me travel down the path.
> 
> I do get where you are coming from. I don’t feel that steveo was attempting to present himself as high and mighty, but rather to be helpful to the people are are searching for answers to their lack of results.

read and learn 😉

an open mind is _sexxay_

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**Author:** ![No1up](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ad7895/32.png) [@No1up](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/No1up)\
**Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 6:55pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/33 "2007-02-19T18:55:05Z")

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I’m an open mind! 🙂

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**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\
**Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 7:32pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/34 "2007-02-19T19:32:22Z")

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> [@No1up](#):
>
> I’m an open mind! 🙂

Yes you are! If I wasn’t so into women I’d probably be excited just how open your mind is.

Good thing though No1up: I heard it through the grape vine that Lor wants you. What for? That part I didn’t hear, but come on it’s obvious.

Go get er tiger…

I love this forum  
😛

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**Author:** ![toilofday](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/toilofday/32/371_2.png) [@toilofday](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/toilofday)\
**Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 8:18pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/35 "2007-02-19T20:18:40Z")

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> [@Lor](#):
>
> wow ksage, you could learn ALOT from TIOLOFDAY!!!
> 
> read and learn 😉
> 
> an open mind is _sexxay_

Thanks Lor, but what’s this stuff i’m hearing about No1up. Am I not open minded enough for you now? Humph…women (shakes head) 😛

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**Author:** ![Lor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lor/32/759_2.png) [@Lor](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Lor)\
**Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 8:28pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/36 "2007-02-19T20:28:40Z")

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hey now,  
im not sure what steveo heard, but im sure its all good 😃

since i dont wish wish to believe you boys are ganging up on my _volatile, innocent_, _FRAGILE_ self i will say i find you all equally open minded and full of useful happenin information, as well as a good laugh or two (or 15… 😛 ) and with this statement i run for my life, before you guys really have a good laugh on me!

[http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/happy0005.gif](http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/happy0005.gif)

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**Author:** ![roarofsilence](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9de0a6/32.png) [@roarofsilence](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/roarofsilence)\
**Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 9:06pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/37 "2007-02-19T21:06:38Z")

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thanks stevo. pheromones don’t make who you are. you make who you are.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\
**Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 11:38pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/38 "2007-02-19T23:38:40Z")

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> [@Lor](#):
>
> hey now,  
> im not sure what steveo heard, but im sure its all good 😃
> 
> since i dont wish wish to believe you boys are ganging up on my _volatile, innocent_, _FRAGILE_ self i will say i find you all equally open minded and full of useful happenin information, as well as a good laugh or two (or 15… 😛 ) and with this statement i run for my life, before you guys really have a good laugh on me!
> 
> [http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/happy0005.gif](http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/happy0005.gif)

No reason to run, but you might like to gingerly trot!

And if anybody wanted a good laugh we would just go to the lounge and look through one particular thread in which your interactions with another forum member are very funny. Of course we wouldn’t be laughing at you there, but laughing with you. At least we all get to laugh though at someone elses expense. Laughing at someone is such fun as long as they know you’re laughing at them.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\
**Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 11:42pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/39 "2007-02-19T23:42:49Z")

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> [@toilofday](#):
>
> Thanks Lor, but what’s this stuff i’m hearing about No1up. Am I not open minded enough for you now? Humph…women (shakes head) 😛

Sorry there Toil, we already had a sale and you were sold to the highest bidder. We then cloned you so I’m afraid I’m going to have to ask you to refrain from making any additional comments. Your clone is so much more cooler than you are! Wanna talk about open mind? ToilofthedayClone is the most open minded I have ever witnessed. We should all aspire to be so open minded.

In fact I heard your clone is already hooked up with Lor. Guess you are out of luck  
😛

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\
**Post date:** [February 19, 2007, 11:45pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/miracle-in-the-bottle/2078/40 "2007-02-19T23:45:24Z")

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> [@roarofsilence](#):
>
> thanks stevo. pheromones don’t make who you are. you make who you are.

Exactly.

Although we now are cloning people. We use pheromones instead of blood so in a way this thread is outdated. See I was wrong all along

😃

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