Well, the tack I’ve been taking does not seem to work. Apparently some of these people are so locked in their schtick they cannot be rehabilitated. They need to be Tasered. They WANT to be tasered. Could you please find me a “Do not even think about messing with me, I guarantee you you are not up for this” mix? I have tried to soften my inner tough bit** but since they aren’t buying that, and refuse to take any of the outs I have provided, we will just finish this right now. Bare knuckles, because, ooops, I feel the velvet gloves riiiiiipping…
I have had enough.
Nunya, I am right here with you. Everything is great everywhere but with these few people at work. I have wracked my brain trying to figure out what it is about ME, but I think I am going to have to accept that there are simply some very dysfunctional workplaces that have attracted some very conflicted people, for whatever reason. It feels just like being in an abusive relationship. And you try all the nice stuff first, and shake your head, and wonder why only here? You try and take the high ground and heal it. And it only gets worse. The better a person you try to be, the more they persecute you. You are right, in some situations it is NOT you, it IS them. Sometimes people act out things to learn lessons. Sometimes they need to learn their behavior is not appropriate and will no longer be tolerated. As long as you are eager to reward better behavior if and when it comes, there is nothing unloving about putting the hammer down. This surely has something to do with the way they feel about themselves - they should not feel that way! I think you are encountering simple jealousy, insecurity, and unflattering inner comparisons. They want to feel good about themselves but are failing to see just how fabulous they are capable of being, in their OWN way. It’s easier to pick at you than develop a better vision of themselves. Tolerating it only enables it. But like you, my question is, how do you rectify this skillfully, without drama, and without escalating the situation? If you react in kind you become your enemy. There has to be a way to transcend.
holy crap - you totally are in the same situation as me vkat! and you hit it on the head. I’ve tried friendly, i’ve tried submissive, i’ve tried dominance. every once in a while dominance works, but now i’ve jsut learned to operate like they don’t exist.
yet and still these are the people that do my reviews and peer reviews, and if they ever did decide to gang up internally - i’d most likely be toast without outside “protection”.
hee - we prolly need a whole other thread on this topic but since submitting doesn’t work, dominating doesn’t work, how do you adopt “non-threatening lone-wolf”, exactly? Become that person that someone with issues may not be best friends with, but they won’t actively seek to harm, nor test.
i have a friend up north who told me one day (when i couldnt understand anyone ever finding a good reason to be mean)
“people mistake kindness for weakness.”
this is my problem.
i would LOVE to try jasmins new power bitch mixes.
it seems (i know,seems is a good word for it because i know its just my perception) that my nature is to be excessively social and well complimentive when i resonate with an idea (my insides scream YEAHHHH BABY!).
as soon as i do, i see it…shes a pushover.
nice equates to “she’ll clean up the mess”
i received the openess and instant shine yesterday, not too sure if it works well, or just because i work with a bunch of girls??? i just ordered the mx135 should be in soon…
exactly but how does one maintain being a good person, without being perceived as a pushover? I mean i’m not gonna be a jackass, just because someone doesn’t have the character to see kindness for kindness. And I’d really hate for them push me and then see the evil that gets spawned, because, trust me, it’s there.
perhaps the answer is the power bitch mix - if they sense alpha, then perhaps they’ll stop thinking i’m someone that’s gonna bow to the flimsy structure that’s in place now.
perhaps the answer is the power bitch mix - if they sense alpha, then perhaps they’ll stop thinking i’m someone that’s gonna bow to the flimsy structure that’s in place now.
Sounds like you’ve dropped smack in the middle of a pack of jackals. It happens. All of sudden you realize these people aren’t smiling, they’re baring their fangs. Uh-oh.
I think the purpose of a good power bitch mix revolves around what Lor said - you are going to be the same, nice, generous, cooperative and uplifting person you already are and prefer to be. But the perfect PB mix would help you exude an aura that would not ALLOW them to EVER mix up YOUR niceness with weakness. This is in line with MHarris’ idea that ultimately pheros could be used to help make the world better and friendlier. Clearing up this common little misconception would be a great start.
When you project power, you can certainly still be nice and people are MORE appreciative of you. Much more so than when you are simply trying to be nice when they don’t deserve it and they push and push until the 'splosion comes. This has happened to me and it is even more frustrating to see how aghast everyone is that you had the nerve to stick up for yourself. Nice people apparently are in some kind of unspoken contract to take anything anybody dishes out, and you just violated it. People who are routinely agitators and offense takers can blow up over nothing and people kowtow to them and make excuses.
I hate to say it- but Lor is right - some people, particularly those who are not pleasant themselves, think nice people are weak. That’s probably why they’re not nice. They’re afraid to be.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with demonstrating another way, or unkind about saying, “This behavior is not worthy of you and I won’t help you lower your standards for yourself by being your victim.”
Power does not have to mean lack of respect or concern for others. That’s domination through force, but it’s an uneasy, exhausting power to try and maintain.
Power is confidence that you can take care of yourself and find ways to work things out with others. While you might love their support, you don’t really need it to get things done. You are not going to waste energy wrestling with them or in supplication. What they do is their choice, you’ve made yours. Power is respecting others BECAUSE you respect yourself, not INSTEAD of respecting yourself. Power is not quashing resistance, it is cutting a swath right through it.
I am so happy to talk with someone about this because I’ve been turning this over for some time-how do I BE the kind of person I both love and respect?
It can be done because I know people that do (they are far too rare). I know they like me but also know if I step over their line, they will sit me down HARD. I like and respect them anyway because they are fair and also reward what they do appreciate. I CAN win with them, and so always want to try. And they give you immediate feedback when you are going where they don’t want you to. It never brews and they are very clear about what it is they don’t find acceptable, somehow without personalizing it or being rude. If you give them too much trouble, they aren’t going to try and persecute you - they erase you. And somehow, you don’t want that.
These are also people gracious in accepting resolution and moving on like it was good it happened. They make you feel secure because you know you can navigate conflict with them. It’s even good to know they aren’t ever going to let you take advantage of them. You never have to feel guilty. These are people who do exactly what they want, and if they do something nice for you, they did it only because they wanted to and so you can just relax and enjoy.
That’s the kind of power bitch I want to be when I grow up 
BTW, I did wear one spray of A314 today, and some MX134, I applied that later. People were very chatty and friendly and at times crowding around to talk to me. No one messed with me all the live-long day except for one person (not a coworker) and he really threw down the gauntlet from across the room. I could not believe my ears. I tossed it right back, HARD and without hesitation. First he got mad, starts coming closer like he’s really going to get in my face. He gets right up to me, pauses (inhales?), and sort of..just..folds. Shrugged and totally switched tactics, said I looked nice today! Slunk away, sideways look and sickly smirk. There wasn’t anywhere else for him to go with me, and it didn’t escalate, it just…poofed out.
YES.
But, Nunya, I know wielding power in the workplace is a sticky wicket, you do need income and you may actually love what you do. It makes us hesitate, and the jackals rush in. And unfortunately, most command structures in companies are not currently organized around the kind of power we’re talking about and they developed long before you got there.
I guess somebody is just going to have to show them how it’s done. I feel from reading your post you are one who can do just that.
But even superheroines like Wonder Woman have super-gadgets and tools to help them get the job done. A secret cache of PB mixes would be so useful for lady slimefighters.
(Mild-mannered alter ego ducks into phonebooth, squirts on XXChromosome Experimone 777. Emerges looking smoking hot in spangled bodysuit and high-heeled boots engineered to be as comfortable as tennis shoes despite the wicked five-inch heels. Minutes later, jackal-butts are flying through the air. The rest of the pack is backing up, snarling, slavering, whimpering. They turn tail and run. Sigh. Peace has been restored. Peaceful wildlife returns. Flowers bloom. Our work here is done. And it’s allllll good.)
baha! awesome post! I totally want to be that person you describe too.
With most people I am - but with these 2 particular coworkers -it jsut doesn’t seem to work that way. It’s funny tho - they’re fairly useless - the kind of folks that do just enough to get by, they have bad attitudes, adn they are hardly ever at work. yet they get kowtowed to. Which disappoints me. I totally need that superheroine formula. Also this superheroine needs a name…
This won’t be politically correct.
In many, or most workplaces, even in few relationships, it is important to have a “badass” moment once, and it is useful to be early in the job lifecycle.
Too often the well-mannered, laid-back person is taken for granted, for weak, helpless or can not stand for themselves.
The benefit of the badass moment is that it demonstrates to co-workers that the good manners are (a choice you made), that you can retract if needed.
How to do it ?, that is the hard part, you’ll have to think fast before acting.
For example, a temper expolsion at a coworker at the coffee machine that you have had enough of his bs and won’t accept anything but professional attitude. Loud, but not screaming, enough to have some talk in your office that goes to your bosses. Make sure you have 100% credibility cause.
I wouldn’t recommend anyone over your peers, unless you are well confident of outcomes.
Well, actually, Nunya, I had you in mind! And again I know what you mean - it makes you feel crazy, trying to explain this to people, hey, I really don’t have this problem…except now I do…and it feels so incongruent.
I think we probably bump into people like this regularly, but most of the time, you can limit your exposure and they don’t become part of your life. When you are unlucky enough to get stuck with them at work, it’s a whole different scenario. And when they are in a position to affect your career, it’s even worse.
I think that is true, and good advice. But I know I am dealing with at least one person who is not a peer and Nunya said these people can also contribute to her reviews and ratings, etc. This is when it becomes really evil, because these people can hurt you and they know it and they take advantage of that. That’s abuse.
For respect in the workplace and out of it, my order of preference is A314, MX134, and to a lesser extent MX105 (it’s a little softer). It seems to calm people and help them stay on task. It will keep nasty peers out of your face, and work very well with those over you in the power structure as well. Brighten it a bit with Instant Shine, if you want to show a little mercy. 
I’d consider IFM for the office as well - we know it’s great for women’s emotional state, and I’m not convinced from what I read here that very many men are negatively affected by it - most of the reports from men here are neutral as far as self-effect and effect on other men around them. It is oft repeated here that IFM may depress men, but not many first-hand reports to back that up - hardly any, in fact.
Correct. The ‘blowout’ can not be with those X people, rather with others, but so that X people see or hear of it.
Point is, the sharp edge needs be communicated somehow, so noone is a pushover.
i find when i talk to people the way i speak with my children (never condecending, always with consideration,but with the intent of geting to the bottom of their issues because they need to see they are having issues LOL) then the power struggle goes away and there is a softening and diffusing of any situation.
but
when i react to a situation or certain words, reacting <— very bad.
breath in breath out dont react. respond.
thats my only feeling here.i try to remember that because it works.
Also good advice, Lor…but hard to remember with the surprise attack. That’s what always gets me.
I actually seem to need to remember to breathe no matter what. I catch myself literally holding my breath all the time.
We probably should move this thread to respect or power bitching Carrie, gotta go look up MX105. I am using A314, very gingerly, in a couple of ways…that’s all about respect although I am not sure how it will work for me - no negative reactions yet. Also, some of the articles on the interactives of male/female pheros on actual hormonal systems and well being have led me to start spraying this one, which is the only male phero I have, on my pillow at night, to see if it could have a “sleeping with a man” effect that would be beneficial to me. I am wearing one spray again today, wore it yesterday, and will try to start a thread on that.
Back to MX135, while it certainly had power, not sure about respect. People don’t seem to know what to do with it, and it either brings very positive or very freaked out reactions, or, as I have experienced, little bipolar rollercoaster events where you get it all at the same time, or, blank out. There’s something delicious about it though. I am going to keep playing with this one, but not at work. And whether it is the scent or the pheros, even one half-pump spray seems to get bigger and bigger on me throughout the day, until it feels like it’s reaching out and tapping people on the shoulder. Also, where I work, attention to detail and accuracy is critical. I don’t want to muck up anybody’s linear thinking, including mine. I’m also a little afraid people are going “God, what is that she’s wearing, it’s overpowering and persistant and it refuses to lie down”. I know there are some people there, particularly a lady near me, that can’t take too much overpowering scent. This might be fun to try in the great outdoors. I don’t think MX135 can get lost anywhere.
MX135 comes in chocolatini, which I wouldn’t wear to work in an office since it’s hugely diffusive. I’ve only worn it for social/music occasions and it’s not really a favorite. I agree with you that its vibe can be unpredictable, sometimes sensual and fun, sometimes distancing.
vkat, when you say you sprayed A314, I’m confused. That one only comes in an oil dropper format as far as I know. Do you mean MX134 maybe, or another variation of A314?
So Carrie - you’ve used A314? And MX134, yeah?
How do they compare in your experience? is A314 really gender specific?
haha! well i am going to strive to be that person, no matter what, from now on… and you’re right - we prolly do run into these people all the time. I’ve tried to pin down what it is about their attitudes that bother me - specifically the way they treat me, but with the 2 of them (my direct alpha male supervisor and the alpha in her own mind coworker) this is what i get and have gotten from day one (and they do this with everyone - except those they really like or want to impress - so like 5 people so far in 3 years)
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No eye contact - the body language is closed - they won’t even turn to acknowledge you’ve said soemthing and force you to speak to their backs)
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If asked a direct question, work-related even, they act visibly annoyed, and will either not answer, or cut me off to give the wrong answer.
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Any attempts at light casual conversation and i get looks that makes me wonder if i’ve sprouted like an extra appendage or something on my cheek.
From a human animal standpoint what are these signals meant to convey? I feel like if i can figure out why they feel they can treat me that way, i can stumble on the correct mix to sort my problems out.
And as i said - it’s these 2 freaks all on their lonesome - i’ve had people adore me, and i’ve had people hate me, but i’ve never had people not ackowledge my existence, when i’m directly speaking to them. Well except the Queens guards - and i never actually spoke to them. Hee!
(to answer Nunya) A314 is loaded with male pheromones, but it’s not comparable to wearing straight -none, for example. It’s so well balanced with who knows what (16 pheros in all now) that I find it very pleasant to wear in small doses (1 drop). The scent is very subtle since it’s an oil, more subtle I’d say than any of the spray pheromones. I’m not a super frilly girly-girl in appearance so I don’t think there’s a congruency problem. Maybe being over 40 makes it easier to get away with, too, who knows. But I love it. It has this huge powerful aura that keeps everything else at bay, like you’re in the calm eye of the storm. I think in a situation where you want big guns, it’s worth a look.
MX134 is intended for women and I like it alot; I used it quite a few times before I got A314. It’s probably a safer bet for all kinds of women.
I’m not a girly-girl at work either - i’m pretty darn functional hee hee. I actually find the oil application more appealing then the spray to be honest - which is why i’m leaning towards A314 for my next purchase, rather than MX134. I like the quiet staying power of an oil. More versatile than scented spray for me - especially when you’re dealing with things that you jsut need a drop for.
Have you warmed it up with any of the androstenols or cops? I like the idea of being taken seriously (i went and searched and ran across countesszero’s posts too) - but i don’t want to lose sociability as well. plus i love the idle chatter from others - i learn all sorts of things.