# My post pheromone self... game as instinct training ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [October 24, 2007, 6:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213 "2007-10-24T18:01:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2007, 5:39am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/21 "2007-10-28T05:39:22Z")
You’re right tacitus. Pity when somebody breaks up because of this… ---
**Author:** ![renny](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/renny/32/2104_2.png) [@renny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/renny)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2007, 3:20pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/22 "2007-10-28T15:20:52Z")
Tacitus, what you are saying here is a dead match to some of the things I’m learning about myself. Thank you for putting these thoughts together. I’ve spent most of my life thus far putting great emphasis on things material and materiel. This has been playing right into the mass marketing world concept. I dislike that and so have tended to withdraw into smaller and more isolated community. The real antidote is empathy, emotion, and expansion of community. If pheromones can help me (even by 1-10%) with that, and I did find my way here 😉 , I’ll be very pleased. ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2007, 9:54pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/23 "2007-10-28T21:54:33Z")
Knowledge is power. Deep knowledge is deep power. Multi levelled, multi dimensional knowledge is multi levelled, multi dimensional power. To scoff at knowledge is to embrace slavery. ---
**Author:** ![gen\_tso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gen\_tso](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/gen_tso)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 7:00am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/24 "2007-10-29T07:00:54Z")
> [@renny](#): > > I’ve spent most of my life thus far putting great emphasis on things material and materiel. This has been playing right into the mass marketing world concept. I dislike that and so have tended to withdraw into smaller and more isolated community. For more on this subject, check out the novel _ **Fight Club** _ by Chuck Palahniuk. It’s is an uncompromising critique of humanity’s loss of identity through mass consumerism. I think you’re making your way to the outside of the sheep. ---
**Author:** ![MadisonTate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@MadisonTate](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MadisonTate)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 7:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/25 "2007-10-29T07:24:47Z")
> [@gen\_tso](#): > > For more on this subject, check out the novel _ **Fight Club** _ by Chuck Palahniuk. It’s is an uncompromising critique of humanity’s loss of identity through mass consumerism. I think you’re making your way to the outside of the sheep. So, are you suggesting we start a fight club? Ill bring the MX178! ---
**Author:** ![data4](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/data4/32/272_2.png) [@data4](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/data4)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 7:51am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/26 "2007-10-29T07:51:32Z")
HEY NOW… Remember the first rule of Fight Club! -D4 ---
**Author:** ![MadisonTate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@MadisonTate](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MadisonTate)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 8:07am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/27 "2007-10-29T08:07:19Z")
> [@data4](#): > > HEY NOW… Remember the first rule of Fight Club! > > -D4 😮 I hope im not kicked out! ---
**Author:** ![gen\_tso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gen\_tso](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/gen_tso)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 8:16am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/28 "2007-10-29T08:16:27Z")
> [@data4](#): > > HEY NOW… Remember the first rule of Fight Club! > > -D4 D’oh! I remembered the first rule, but I forgot about the second one. ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 4:40pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/29 "2007-10-29T16:40:51Z")
> [@tacitus](#): > > OK.. I’lll repeat that… the real work has taken place in the mind of the user… who is the one exposed to the highest concentrations… the user, or wearer, has about 90% unconsciousness of how he (or) she is perceived by other people. _Most have no idea how others see them, or really feel about them. Most behavior is unconscious, automatic pattern.._. and the best psychology theory tells us that the personality is strongly established before 5 years of age… and then it changes slowly, with difficulty… > > Sooo.. what this also reveals is those people who are succesfull with others, either gettting good partners, or business, or whatever, probably were exposed to successful child rearing patterns which set these skills in place before there was any self consciousness… > > What I believe pheromones are (partially) capable of doing is softening some of the rigid or deeply set internal structures so one can become flexible again and learn new relating patterns, assuming one is so motivated, and by practicing them over and over one is given a second chance at behavioral self patterning… so low success or frustration can change into high success or social ease… > > At which point the pheromone is nice, however the success comes from deep level personal change… either of attitudes towards others or attitudes towards oneself, or expectations of how others might perceive us, or how we expect them to react to us… reposting an interesting old post from another board by a user familiar to some… this is so true. **that all depends on a multitude of factors** I guess this first thing is that you learn what causes a voice to communicate an emotional “tone”. A good teacher understands how the larynx operates as a coordinated set of muscles. The average person doesn’t know which throat muscles do what or how. When you have become educated about muscle use you could leave off your training and regardless you would know what parts of your voice mechanism have become weak, what you would need to do to get it back. Typically, one doesn’t know about the coordinations that make good voices sound the way that they do. It is important, actually it is essential, to find a teacher you like personally and enjoy working with. If there isn’t a good rapport you won’t get the interest level you need to make progress. **In another way, I think you’ll find that good (read: socially productive, fortune enhancing) behaviors are self encouraging. If you begin to do something well, and maybe you were never aware of how your life was being controlled by this skill or lack of it, your life starts to change so you receive major positive feedback to do more of what is bringing you luck.** Quick example: I went to the store today to buy some winter clothes. The customer in front of me was being a flaming prick. The cashier was in a vile mood when I stepped up to the register. I started talking to her lightly about the labels, nothing of any profound depth. I could watch her relax and get back into her positive groove so she was pretty OK by the time we were done. If I had been in my old tone she may have been more bent out of shape and I would have been walking around thinking how was it that so many people are perpetually bent out of shape, when they were reacting to my unconsciousness about my tone. It is finally dawning on me why I had a hard time connecting with girls when I was younger, I sounded like a perpetually irate, narrow minded, white trash hick and nobody wanted to know from my sensitive inner self. Powerful stuff you’re working with here. Do not underestimate. Will it be the blue pill or will it be the red pill ? ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 1:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/30 "2007-10-30T13:08:47Z")
Frustrating, innit ? 😕 One walks through the business section at Barnes and Noble… some Donald Trump here, some this and that over there… and yet one is struck by how little they have to say… everything is general, inspirational… it’s ATTITUDE… bla bla bla… _but they never seem to drill down into real information, the “how” is never addressed_, everything worth knowing is “proprietary”… trade secrets and all that… so you read maybe 100 things, and this suggests some triangulation is in order, how do you get to the underlying patterns, the real sources of success ? Ever noticed when you’re talking business with somebody, or talking about business with somebody, or you’re around political people, and you start in on sensitive territory, everyone gets so defensive, so tight lipped, so wary, so unwilling to say anything ? Like this strange pall of mystique, silence, paranoia, hyper-control, neuotocism, fear, anxiety, bureaucracy, hidden factors, non-disclosure contracts… whatever the F… Tacitus Rule #7, ( I forget what the first six are, and if I knew I wouldn’t tell you on principle) _the more important, or valuable, or dangerous a piece of information is, the more neurotic people become about that information_, the more their emotional state and behaviors will change with regard to that information, sometimes they get wide eyed, or sometimes get this Wild West Shootout bullshit on their face, all squinty eyed and sizing you up in a “knowing” way… sometimes it becomes mouth energy, like the lips are sealed tight with Crazy Glue (aptly named), or they will stare straight ahead like watching a movie on a tiny screen off in the distance… OK… so get this straight… I sort of imagine that most books written for the middlebrow, wants a simple solution that doesn’t require much steam or angst market, self help-ish variety are either 1. masturbatory vanity jobs so the douchebag ex CEO can see his name bandied about as a “thinker”, 2. money grubbing hack jobs that are the ten thousandth re-packaging of the same old intestinal contents that have been the staple of “success literature” since the 1920s, 3. brain dead neo-mystical drivel that will be forgotten as soon as the next cycle of brain dead neo-mystical drivel establishes a niche in the marketplace (anyone still reading the Celestine Prpohecies ? No ?)… 4. who moved my cheeze ? 5… I can’t tell you about point #5 because you don’t deserve to know…😮 ---
**Author:** ![Kitten](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/kitten/32/1051_2.png) [@Kitten](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Kitten)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 3:10am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/31 "2007-10-31T03:10:01Z")
> [@tacitus](#): > > Frustrating, innit ? 😕 One walks through the business section at Barnes and Noble… some Donald Trump here, some this and that over there… and yet one is struck by how little they have to say… everything is general, inspirational… it’s ATTITUDE… bla bla bla… _but they never seem to drill down into real information, the “how” is never addressed_, everything worth knowing is “proprietary”… trade secrets and all that… so you read maybe 100 things, and this suggests some triangulation is in order, how do you get to the underlying patterns, the real sources of success ? Ever noticed when you’re talking business with somebody, or talking about business with somebody, or you’re around political people, and you start in on sensitive territory, everyone gets so defensive, so tight lipped, so wary, so unwilling to say anything ? Like this strange pall of mystique, silence, paranoia, hyper-control, neuotocism, fear, anxiety, bureaucracy, hidden factors, non-disclosure contracts… whatever the F… Tacitus Rule #7, ( I forget what the first six are, and if I knew I wouldn’t tell you on principle) _the more important, or valuable, or dangerous a piece of information is, the more neurotic people become about that information_, the more their emotional state and behaviors will change with regard to that information, sometimes they get wide eyed, or sometimes get this Wild West Shootout bullshit on their face, all squinty eyed and sizing you up in a “knowing” way… sometimes it becomes mouth energy, like the lips are sealed tight with Crazy Glue (aptly named), or they will stare straight ahead like watching a movie on a tiny screen off in the distance… > > OK… so get this straight… I sort of imagine that most books written for the middlebrow, wants a simple solution that doesn’t require much steam or angst market, self help-ish variety are either 1. masturbatory vanity jobs so the douchebag ex CEO can see his name bandied about as a “thinker”, 2. money grubbing hack jobs that are the ten thousandth re-packaging of the same old intestinal contents that have been the staple of “success literature” since the 1920s, 3. brain dead neo-mystical drivel that will be forgotten as soon as the next cycle of brain dead neo-mystical drivel establishes a niche in the marketplace (anyone still reading the Celestine Prpohecies ? No ?)… 4. who moved my cheeze ? 5… I can’t tell you about point #5 because you don’t deserve to know…😮 Can’t wait to read your book, Tacitus. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![PheroQuirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@PheroQuirk](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/PheroQuirk)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2007, 11:34pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/32 "2007-11-02T23:34:44Z")
> [@tacitus](#): > > Well, it could be classic fear of intimacy, or a near cousin to it, emotional perfectionism… 🆒 …there a lot of people, I’d guess the majority of people, who have strong irrational beliefs about what a relationship should (as in: has to, or freak out and run for the hills) look like… as if there is some kind of detailed mental checklist of each stage, what kinds of rituals, how the rituals are performed, what magical words must be said in what way at what moment, how one must fit into the family system… you must be superior to dad, or dad must be superior to you, or you must worship me, or I must worship you, or we must worship each other but God forbid we show any imperfection, weakness, need or incomplete development… some, Eric Berne and others, have referred to these deeply entrenched patterns as “life scripts”… and once you’re on board, there is a strong unconscious expectation for you to live up, or live down to, the stage directions of the life script… when people get very interesting, original, and highly self determined is when they 1, recognize that they aren’t living a life so much as their life scripts are living them, and 2, say to hell with it and begin to design their own life patterns… sometimes referred to as blowing it off and getting real…:o pickup podcast by eric and decker on relationship patterns [http://approachanxiety.com/audio/approachanxiety.com-decker.mp3](http://approachanxiety.com/audio/approachanxiety.com-decker.mp3) " [Authentic Man Program](http://www.authenticmanprogram.com/) has made a huge splash in the pickup community. They have one of the most original and innovative approaches to dating and relationships. In this amazing interview, I talk with Decker, the originator of Authentic Man Program, and get his take on approach anxiety and relating to women. What can our own individual relationship patterns tell us about our fear of approaching women? What sets us off? Decker comes to us with the perfect attitude toward approach anxiety. He tells us why it might be BAD to try to overcome the anxiety. We talk about how, instead, we can feel ALL OF IT and it could lead us to truth. How does taking responsibility for your own feelings make you free? How do you stay centered in the face of intense feelings? What if your approach anxiety is actually a breadcrumb trail to something deeper inside you? " ---
**Author:** ![Nunya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac8455/32.png) [@Nunya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Nunya)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 12:42am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/33 "2007-11-03T00:42:48Z")
Wow. yeah i totally agree. I’ve just been thinking about this. I’ve been having such insane fun with pheros that I never noticed my game sharpening either. or perhaps it’s the way I carry myself or the expectations I project. But lately I’ve been going out phero-less, curiously one reason being my long-time friend is never warmer then when I smell like me. Unless I smell like TAL, in which case all he wants to do is live in babymama fantasy-land. But what I’ve noticed is that same magnetism and sense of being noticed when I walk into a room. People still spoil the hell out of me and give of themselves generously, even without phero help. I don’t know what’s different, but it’s pretty incredible. wish i felt this empowered 5 or 10 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 9:26am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/34 "2007-11-03T09:26:02Z")
> [@Nunya](#): > > I don’t know what’s different, but it’s pretty incredible. wish i felt this empowered 5 or 10 years ago. As I wish too.. but we can’t turn back the clock! ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 7:05pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/35 "2007-11-03T19:05:58Z")
we, the young witch and I are experimenting in a fairly orderly way with energetics… i.e. combining technology (such as pheromone chemistry) with more shamanic technology… complex tones, binaural beats, creating soundfields of insects… the carlos casteneda side of the equation without all that fantasy baggage that castaneda idiots ramble on without any understanding and some other inputs that aren’t too well known or understood..above and beyond having very, very good sex there is a long energetic, deep consciousness change that seems to emerge from the choice of frequencies, the types of life form sounds, and these long duration orgasm-zen-meditations… the actual consciousness payoff is as if the sex is a springboard to another dimensionality of life experience…🙂 🙂 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![data4](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/data4/32/272_2.png) [@data4](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/data4)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 8:13pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/36 "2007-11-03T20:13:38Z")
Hey, that’s cool to see another playing with binaurals. Do you use commercially produced products, or do you make your own? I have a program called BWGen that I use to make simple Theta beats when I want to relax and do a little creative visualization. I’m a bit nervous about doing some of the more advanced frequency patterns, though. I’d probably freak out if I had an OBE or something like that. -D4 ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 8:21pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/37 "2007-11-03T20:21:56Z")
We have almost every product commercially available, both a fine collection of “pure” binaural entrainement tones, meditative tones with music, binaural plus nature sounds, pure nature sounds both atmospheric and animal, pure musics and chants… after a lot of structured experimentation we have found deep, potent, near out of body experiences with some, profound meditations with others, light trances with yet others… some of this you won’t see coming, put on the deep theta mediataion or delta frequencies and two hours later realize you’ve been on a cosmic journey someplace either far inside or far outside… sometimes it has seemed like the esssence of prayer, sometimes like the evocation of the shamanic spirit, sometimes like mind meld, and sometimes just a jolly good fuck. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 8:31pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/38 "2007-11-03T20:31:43Z")
BTW, under these conditions one will greatly appreciate a fine sound system versus a mediocre rig… fine doesn’t have to be big or cumbersome, however well chosen components carefully mated are essential for the quality of the journey… other choices matter, the purity of the massage oil is key (bulk products for the spa market are cheap and nobody complains when the goal is fixing a sore neck… for shape shifting and OBEs you need better grade)… we put in some hours learning Ericksonian inductions, co-hypnosis, trance mutuality too… so that leaves us where for now… _uber-sensuous NLP porno-shamanism Zen_ ? _Have mercy, child… whatever it is… it renders a whole lotta trivial life issues basically irrelevant and worth moving past as rapidly as one can get up and split… adios, freakshow…_ ---
**Author:** ![data4](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/data4/32/272_2.png) [@data4](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/data4)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 8:33pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/39 "2007-11-03T20:33:36Z")
Alright, that does it. I am now going to consider you my guru. "_uber-sensuous NLP porno-shamanism Zen"_ sounds right up my alley. 😃 Incidentally, this may be something random to say and the wrong place for it, but Igor Ledochowski’s Conversational Hypnosis audio course is OUT-FREAKING-STANDING. -D4 ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 8:54pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/40 "2007-11-03T20:54:30Z")
yes, I have that… recording quality is atrocious though… the content is well worth the pain of having to listen to that muffled blur… Also avail onself of Stephen Gilligan’s generative hypnosis 3 CD set as a useful into… For all hardcore afficionadi there is John Grinder’s New Code seminar next spring in London… IMHO.. what is up with all of this is that _humans are highly resonant with each other on an unconscious level_, 😉 and if you are able to obtain an exceptional state of awareness, sensuality, being-ness, others will automatically “feel-sense-resonate” with that state… so this throws the whole PUA methodology into the great Vita-Mix content versus context juicer… the PUAs I think misread the dynamics of it by trying to operate on the level of content, where the Eroto-Shamans are operating on the level of context and let the content fill itself in as it will… so functionally speaking if you want to go with the PUA mode you are working on a “delivery system” for your underlying intention, if you are in Eroto-Shaman mode you are working on manifesting a stable high level of non-ordinary consciousness that others will fold into and out of as a function of their own other-than-conscious processes. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213.md?page=1) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213.md?page=3)