# My post pheromone self... game as instinct training ?

**URL:** <https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213>\
**Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\
**Created:** [October 24, 2007, 6:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213 "2007-10-24T18:01:35Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 3

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**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\
**Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 11:27am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/41 "2007-11-04T11:27:21Z")

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interesting tacitus.. I tried to rep you again but I have to spread it around first apparently.. 😮

I think some spiritual persons may have preconcepts against somebody who is like you said in an “exceptional state of awareness, sensuality, being-ness”.. as if it is not possible to be spiritual and in that state too.. the madonna/whore thing again I guess.  
Of course there are different interpretations of such a state, one interpretation will be different from others as there are different beliefs/ideas etc..  
On the other hand someone in that state will likely be a balanced individual…  
I wonder, do my needs and wishes for the future make me unbalanced? Or should I be more balanced in myself, would certain needs of mine in a relationship simply disappear? Because I think our needs are part of what defines us… so I’m not sure…

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**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\
**Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 4:17pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/42 "2007-11-04T16:17:57Z")

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Mmmmm… the thing about social conditioning is that the ones who have been well programmed are the ones least aware of being programmed… not that all social programming is bad… not at all… however, we’re expected to take it all on board as a single identity construct… if you’re being sold a bill of goods (and you are) you’re expected to either buy into the whole thing or turn your back on the whole thing… what seems to be taboo is selectively (meaning: judiciously weighing the truth value and intrinsic merit) identifying with some collective messages, values, constructs… while maintaining a critical awareness of others that might not be in your self interest… “the system”, to use a gross overgeneralization, wants its system-citizens to be conscious, thoughtful, and productive along certain lines but has a distinct aversion to consciousness, thought, and productivity along other lines… in the vernacular, it’s ok to be a dancin’ fool as long as you’re dancing to their music.

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**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\
**Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 4:35pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/43 "2007-11-04T16:35:00Z")

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Then people get televisual impressions of someone eg somebody they see on tv, they just imagine the person is all they see and nothing else.  
It’s the same with us when others see us, they make up their phero-impression and don’t think there is more depth to us..  
Pheromones may be useful tools to help give a broader phero-impression after all..

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**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\
**Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 5:07pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/44 "2007-11-04T17:07:24Z")

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This is the central theme in Stumbling On Happiness… the brain can be provided with limited information… an episode on television… and can generate complex stories (that were never there in the specific information provided by the show) by a remarkable skill the brain has to “patch information gaps”… so the brain is also a great self-storytelling computer which can begin from point A and fabricate fictions to point Z… that’s exactly the dynamic at work with effective advertising, to suggest something and then let your mind run wild with it…🙄

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**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\
**Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 5:21pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/45 "2007-11-04T17:21:50Z")

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To expand on that some: when we set aside some time for sex-zen-ericksonian storytelling-more sex-massage-altered state intonation, in many ways, on multiple levels, we are first choosing to disengage from the urban-materialist-ego trance (for a consciously chosen space of “ritual time” versus clock time, althought it can be measured in clock time, we’re not scizophrenics, yet) and we’re constantly working at refining the altered state trance skill set… so off to energy field-non ego -Other Than Conscious awareness trance… IMO, there has been a huge amount of psychic injury to this culture throught the materializing of sex, I’m not any way opposed to sexual imagery, but a lot of the pornography I see is highly incongruent, damaged trance state stuff, guys with damaged male images, women with damaged female images… as a result of trying to commodify the psychic realm… which doesn’t work… it isn’t the sex that’s broken, or the depiction of sex that’s broken, it’s the depiction of the commodification of sex thats broken… and that kind of grimly suggests to me that there are part of all of us that partakes (unquestioningly, for the most part) of consumer culture that is emotionally broken, or deeply injured at the psychic level… so what we’re doing is setting aside some outside-the-framework of mutually reinforcing mytholgy time, outside the TV generated cliche of freedom as a cover for servitude illusion, what we’re doing is temporarily letting go of the binding trances…

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**Author:** ![NancysBoy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/nancysboy/32/391_2.png) [@NancysBoy](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/NancysBoy)\
**Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/46 "2007-11-04T17:36:34Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> what we’re doing is temporarily letting go of the binding trances

I see it as a kind of ‘overload reset’ that I’m seeking when I shut off the trance. Like sleep brings back balence and equilibrium and health.

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**Author:** ![chads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2acd7d/32.png) [@chads](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/chads)\
**Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 5:50pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/47 "2007-11-04T17:50:38Z")

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Tacitus, have you read The Adventure of Self-Discovery by Stanislav Grof? Do you do anything with holotrpic breathing etc.? I found the book interesting but never had much success with the breathing techniques.

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**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\
**Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 6:15pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/48 "2007-11-04T18:15:58Z")

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I knew Grof.. we spent some time on the road together… odd bird, he.🙄

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**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\
**Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 6:32pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/49 "2007-11-04T18:32:13Z")

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> [@NancysBoy](#):
>
> I see it as a kind of ‘overload reset’ that I’m seeking when I shut off the trance. Like sleep brings back balence and equilibrium and health.

Were in an overstimulation culture. The brain is engineered to need consolidation and integration periods. In mind experiments, man and animal, when consolidation is limited (like sleep deprivation torture) the mind slowly cracks up, becomes substantially more suggestible (that’s why cults are known for their marathon “trainings” with no consolidation or reflection, dietary modification, lack of sleep or social interactions)… effective de-trancing or de-hypnosis or groupthink de-programming IS like a massive memory bank reset…

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**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\
**Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 7:14pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/50 "2007-11-04T19:14:46Z")

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There is a modern culture which has gone wrong too.. people are like you said overstimulated with this culture, so they accept many things they would not have accepted had they had time to reflect. For instance things which can be dangerous and they don’t even try to think about it..  
so their behaviour is very much affected..

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**Author:** ![Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/phoenix/32/673_2.png) [@Phoenix](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Phoenix)\
**Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 9:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/51 "2007-11-04T21:51:21Z")

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In many individuals there is a gratification based primary motivation which influences one’s choices and commitments.. an element of narcissism, egoism and personal preferences may make it difficult for me to really love or care for others.. the question may lie in how large this element is in the person..  
someone who manages to limit this element to a large extent, may be called a _sannyasin_… having experienced a dark night and overcome it..

myself, I’m sure I have the element, though I’ve dated people with a larger element than mine so far…  
still seeking that woman with a reduced element of narcissism/egoism who has an integrated sexuality and spirituality.. a person centered in this body but with a spiritual longing too..

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**Author:** ![chads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2acd7d/32.png) [@chads](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/chads)\
**Post date:** [November 6, 2007, 3:57am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/52 "2007-11-06T03:57:25Z")

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Maybe he had dropped too much acid.🙂

Have you tried any of his techniques?

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**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\
**Post date:** [November 6, 2007, 3:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/53 "2007-11-06T15:36:12Z")

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First things frst: according to the research of Jean Twenge (who is the author of an exhaustively referenced book on the subject)… narcissism, coupled with the emotional problems of narcissism are greatly on the rise in the young adult population… narcissists have major barriers to forming long term, mutually satisfying… probably even short term mutually satisfying personal connections… narcissists have a hell of a time “getting” the inner life or essence of other people…

According to Dr. Twenge:

_"In contrast, study after study finds a sharp rise in self-centeredness. In survey data on more than 150,000 people, more recent generations score significantly higher on 11 different scales of self-focused traits, including those measuring assertiveness, social dominance, self-esteem, agency, and narcissism._

_What would we expect from young people who are more narcissistic? Seven outcomes are correlated with narcissism and can be traced over time: materialism, interest in becoming famous, inflated and unrealistic expectations, more hookups and fewer boyfriend-girlfriend relationships, more gambling, more cheating, and more aggression and crime. Six out of seven of these have, sure enough, increased at the same time that narcissism has risen. The only exception is youth crime, which is down. Clearly, the link between personality and social trends is complex – many forces are at work driving social trends – but this pattern is remarkable._

_Last October, the Pew Center for Research asked 18- to 25-year-olds about their generation’s important goals. Eight out of 10 named getting rich and 5 out of 10 named becoming famous, but only 3 out of 10 chose helping people who need help and only 2 out of 10 picked becoming leaders in the community. In other words, young people see their generation with clear eyes, readily acknowledging their peers’ self-focus._

_But that doesn’t mean they are entirely happy with the situation. Many young people are distressed that our resume-building, brag-friendly culture means they need to carefully “package” themselves to get ahead. Others are profoundly angry that their parents and teachers did not prepare them for an increasingly competitive world that does not give out trophies for participation. They feel duped by adults who fed them patently absurd bromides like “you can be anything you want to be.”_

_Many young people are actively defying the generational trend, serving their country in the armed forces or helping others through charity organizations. The shift toward narcissism is an increase in the average, and there are many exceptions to the rule. It is also difficult to say whether, and how, these narcissistic traits will affect our society; perhaps the reality checks of adulthood will blunt young people’s self-centeredness. There are also upsides to an individualistic attitude: Although the mantra “do what’s right for you” can lead to selfishness, it can also lead to tolerance for other cultures and lifestyles."_  
\*\*  
So there, go figure… maybe a year or two in structured group therapy with a competent psychologist who specializes in NPD ? More work than taking acid. No overnight changes.

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**Author:** ![dbot](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dbot/32/1595_2.png) [@dbot](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dbot)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/54 "2010-12-14T18:54:10Z")

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I hope my etiquette isn’t totally fucked in reviving this years-old thread, but I have seldom seen a thread on any forum more worthy of revival and study.

I mentioned in another thread my suspicion that pheromones were bound to act as a social learning accelerant insofar as they induce changes in immediate social responding. I also mentioned that human and social systems are intricately bound, even holographic systems in which changes to any part of the system must necessarily result in an unfolding of similar changes throughout the system. This is the main principle on which my psychotherapy practice is based: pattern interruption at seemingly innocuous points in clients’ conscious networks, such that the self-protective mechanisms are not tripped.

Tacitus makes outstanding points about the trance-like nature of consensual reality, and the power of ritual to create alternate realities which function with the same robustness. It seems like we would all do well to appreciate that by radically altering our unconscious sociophysiological signatures through pheromones, we are afforded a very real opportunity to not only change the way that we interact within consensus reality, but to begin to transcend it.

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**Author:** ![CoolKat](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/coolkat/32/501_2.png) [@CoolKat](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/CoolKat)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/55 "2010-12-14T19:35:45Z")

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> [@dbot](#):
>
> I hope my etiquette isn’t totally fucked in reviving this years-old thread, but I have seldom seen a thread on any forum more worthy of revival and study.
> 
> I mentioned in another thread my suspicion that pheromones were bound to act as a social learning accelerant insofar as they induce changes in immediate social responding. I also mentioned that human and social systems are intricately bound, even holographic systems in which changes to any part of the system must necessarily result in an unfolding of similar changes throughout the system. This is the main principle on which my psychotherapy practice is based: pattern interruption at seemingly innocuous points in clients’ conscious networks, such that the self-protective mechanisms are not tripped.
> 
> Tacitus makes outstanding points about the trance-like nature of consensual reality, and the power of ritual to create alternate realities which function with the same robustness. It seems like we would all do well to appreciate that by radically altering our unconscious sociophysiological signatures through pheromones, we are afforded a very real opportunity to not only change the way that we interact within consensus reality, but to begin to transcend it.

Some guy might call you out on ur re-viving the old thread, but meh…

Good stuffs should be ALWAYS considered being bumped up 😃

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**Author:** ![dbot](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dbot/32/1595_2.png) [@dbot](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dbot)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/56 "2010-12-14T19:36:48Z")

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I would also like to add that I do not personally discount the value of cultivating content-level skills such as PUA social dynamics. I think, in fact, that it would be very difficult to transcend any reality in which a person has not achieved a high degree of mastery in some skill which they have managed to locate as central to their own intracultural understanding of reality. Without mastery, it isn’t really transcendence, it’s abandonment.

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**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/57 "2010-12-14T21:24:50Z")

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I’ve always considered pheromones to be weapons of mass instruction… the earlier use of powerful psychedelics and “entactogens”… from Owlsey LSD to exstacy… wrested too much control from the conscious mind… strage and wondrous things might happen… nightmarish and confusing things might happen too… the drug path seemed to have left too many social and emotional casualties in its wake… pheromones work much more in the realm of disposition and choice… they leave the minds CPU pretty much intact, with possibly a few lines of code changed… in the best sense, they increase possibility, they expand the range of choice, however one much still choose, direct, intend consciousness… they do deepen what one can intend… and they expand what one can experience… I believe that a lot of neuroses and emotional constipation are narrowings of choice, depletions of vital force of the mind… often a new door is opened, then months or years are required to fully explore and understand what was a closed mansion.

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**Author:** ![Noble](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/noble/32/1768_2.png) [@Noble](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Noble)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/58 "2010-12-14T22:19:52Z")

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Brilliant. I had an _inkling_ that using Mones at the same time as learning new behaviors would probably make it easier to integrate things, even speed up the process. I started learning PUA kind of stuff only a couple months ago, and pheromones came in about a month later.

It hasn’t been _that_ long. It really hasn’t. But I’ve learned a lot of material very rapidly, enough to feel confident in any social situation. It’s all programmed, if you know what I mean.  
I’ve internalized all the teachings of David DeAngelo, Neil Strauss, Mystery, and Richard Ruina into my normal behavior, while adding in my own charm.

Hey, no complaints over here, but I’m just saying… it seems like it should’ve been **harder** to do. 🙂

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**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/59 "2010-12-14T22:24:38Z")

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Odd things… reading over all that was said three years ago, how much the temper of the times have changed… I couldn’t write the same things today, people have morphed, thanks or no thanks, into a new species of people, the deep and subtle life lessons, those fully indescribable encounters with existence, could never be lived in this vibratory state of the now as they were 3-7 years ago…technology has changed us, in some ways for the better and in some ways for distinctly worse, more ruthlessly than anyone could have imagined… we’ve become a flatter, far more programmed sort of people, living at a distant remove from what once might have been known as the unconscious self… with all the energies and mysteries that arise from the unconscious self… but we have gained an efficiency, a cog like ness… or perhaps having lived the energies directly they rendered their presence redundant… all that I wrote has the feel of emerging from a mind not my own. A younger, more naive, less rounded being still looking through a cardboard tube and thinking it was a telescope..

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**Author:** ![chads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/2acd7d/32.png) [@chads](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/chads)\
**Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/my-post-pheromone-self-game-as-instinct-training/6213/60 "2010-12-16T02:31:46Z")

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It seems to me society is becoming more polarized. I see many of the “flatter, more programmed” people, but I also see many people becoming more profound (whether spiritually or through technology). It is almost like a diverging evolutionary split.

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