# Need Better Guy Friends **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [June 29, 2010, 5:30am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/need-better-guy-friends/39683 "2010-06-29T05:30:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![celerytree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@celerytree](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/celerytree)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 5:30am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/need-better-guy-friends/39683/1 "2010-06-29T05:30:05Z")
In general, I don’t have much trouble interacting with women. I’m comfortable introducing myself and having short conversations. Once I get to know them, I can add steer conversations in multiple directions – sexual, serious, or completely random. I’ve noticed that I’ve had two main problems. (1) Getting stuck in the friend zone: I used to have a ton of problems with this. However, I’ve really focused on breaking out of the friend zone over the past few months through behavioral changes and, more recently, [pheromones](https://a314.com/shop/). I’ve made some significant progress, but if anyone has some more useful tips, I’ll take them. I’m more concerned with fixing #2. (2) Guy friends: I’ve been told several times recently that I have a ton of girl friends. There are several that I can think of off the top of my head that I know I could call at almost any time of the day or night and they would be there to give me a hand. No, not that type of hand. Get your mind out of the gutter. What I don’t have is that many really good guy friends. I have a lot of guy friends, but none that I would feel comfortable calling up and asking for favors. I don’t think I’ve ever been considered “one of the boys”. I’m really big into community service – something that most guys my age could care less about. I’m athletic, but I couldn’t care less about watching sports. I’m not a huge partier and I’m even less of a video gamer. I definitely get respect hits from most of my guy friends, and they’re generally along the lines of “celery, you’re a really cool guy”. Not so much “celery, we should hang out sometime.” I’m looking for any suggestions, pheromone related or not, that could help me make some better guy friends! ---
**Author:** ![hillke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@hillke](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/hillke)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 6:24am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/need-better-guy-friends/39683/2 "2010-06-29T06:24:25Z")
To be frank… I know what you mean. My army buddies are pretty much the same way, though I’ve learned to be ‘one of the guys’. While I wouldn’t hesitate to call them to help me move a couch, I don’t think I would call them for study help or personal advice. Maybe it’s the whole macho thing and not wanting to seem weak or anything, but I really don’t believe I would want any personal advice from the guys… I’ve tried that before 🙄. I think a lot of the social stigma about being a guy is about staying within your social group and not showing weakness (def true in the army). The athletes with the athletes, nerds with nerds, navy/navy, army/army, business/business, etc… If you don’t share a common university activity here, you really don’t know a lot of people. Once you do know another person in that group, it’s real easy to break in, especially if you put on a good first impression. Parties really aren’t the place to meet guys, nor bars, it really has to be through these kind of groups that you get to know others. At least here it does… The most practical advice I have is: use your 6 degrees. Everyone is connected to everyone else somehow, someway. Go to a club or event or something with one of your friends guy or gal and just meet people. It helps if your friend sets you up with a good rep, but you’re on your own there. Example: I never really knew any staff at the gym before 4 weeks ago. Some time in April, a few gals from the gym were working with the rotc groups for an event on campus. I was in charge, so they always came to me with whatever. Well, a few free meals and hours and hours of talking through boredom and I made some good friends who I talk with when I see them at the gym. Fast forward to 4 weeks ago and I’m talking with a friend over the checkin counter at the back entrance (never busy) I’ve been there about 20 minutes when another guy comes over and we get introduced. My friend painted a real nice picture of me and I held a great first impression. Well, that guy was the student manager for the term. When I wound up talking with him in the last few weeks, we became good friends, I got into some gym staff only events, and I get introduced to everyone when we’re just chatting away. While I know everyone staffing the gym by name, I would consider most of them acquaintances. I guess you really have to be around these people every day to strengthen a friendship. Not enough contact and they will just be people you know… Another thing: some people are literally social hubs. Like the student manager, he knew everyone and everything: who was in rotc, sports, computers, business, whatever. This guy knew everything about everyone and I met the entire gym staff through him. I’m almost like a local celebrity when I go through there, simply by knowing and being introduced through this one guy. I hope this made sense, I’m on my way to bed as I finish this. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/flight/32/989_2.png) [@flight](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 8:27am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/need-better-guy-friends/39683/3 "2010-06-29T08:27:14Z")
I totally know what you mean, as I have the exact same problem. I think I’ll try hilke’s advice and lose some of the vulnerability, though I’m sure it helps also to simply ask them to hang out with them yourself more often. You (and I) may have excluded them in our minds somewhat as far as asking favors and such, but perhaps they have as well and just feel that you are an awesome guy who doesn’t really hang out with them, and that’s just that. I’m not entirely sure I’m making a ton of sense either since it’s so late, but hilke, yours made sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![celerytree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@celerytree](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/celerytree)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/need-better-guy-friends/39683/4 "2010-06-29T16:38:48Z")
Thanks hillke! What you’ve said definitely makes a lot of sense when I look back at my past four years in high school. I’ve been the quintessential social butterfly where I have a ton of friends from a huge variety of cliques, but I’ve never made any really deep friendships with anybody. While I don’t think I’m going to limit my socializing to a specific group of people as I start college in the fall, I think I’m going to really try to focus on building connections with a few close friends. ---
**Author:** ![Sillykitty](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/sillykitty/32/1574_2.png) [@Sillykitty](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Sillykitty)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/need-better-guy-friends/39683/5 "2010-06-29T16:57:37Z")
Phero-wise, [Instant Honesty](https://a314.com/product/instant-honesty/) might be perfect for this. ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/need-better-guy-friends/39683/6 "2010-06-29T17:51:54Z")
I suspect this is why guys will go into debt putting together the alpha-crib, or why fathers who’ve been through it will buy their son a car that costs some serious coin, or spring for a good pool table in the rec room… guys have a definite hierarchy of object-studliness… smart marketers must make a friggin’ fortune off of this behavioral insight… if my dad had been wise to the inner game of fab stuff he would have bought us an air hockey table and a personal Sub-Zero loaded with exotic artisanal brewskis… a friend of mine got a giant personal dude room that was safely detached from the house… the rule was we could hang out there, party like idiots, but nobody, never ever was allowed into the main house…once we hit serious relationship/first marriage age we had to rethink everything toward chick-magnetism… sensitive art, ditch the mounted antlers, learn what words like _sautee_ meant, anal bleaching… all the basics ---
**Author:** ![Bearcat](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/bearcat/32/739_2.png) [@Bearcat](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Bearcat)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/need-better-guy-friends/39683/7 "2010-06-29T18:01:38Z")
I think a good daily phero-sig for your goal would be 2 sprays of IG 2, a spray or 2 of IH and 20-30mcg of [P83](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p83/) for good measure. ---
**Author:** ![CoolKat](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/coolkat/32/501_2.png) [@CoolKat](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/CoolKat)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/need-better-guy-friends/39683/8 "2010-06-29T18:18:21Z")
> [@Sillykitty](#): > > Phero-wise, Instant Honesty might be perfect for this. Do guys like IH? I would feel weird out around some dude wearing mones. Personally, I had never trouble making GUY friends. Going to a bar to watch some Lakers or World Cup Games, and two minutes later, bam… I have a buddy, lol… If you are talking about a life-long best bud, well, it takes time , effort, AND fate. ---
**Author:** ![TheBoogieMan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/theboogieman/32/1136_2.png) [@TheBoogieMan](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/TheBoogieMan)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/need-better-guy-friends/39683/9 "2010-06-29T18:33:26Z")
> [@CoolKatDC](#): > > Do guys like IH? I would feel weird out around some dude wearing mones. Personally, I had never trouble making GUY friends. Going to a bar to watch some Lakers or World Cup Games, and two minutes later, bam… I have a buddy, lol… > **If you are talking about a life-long best bud, well, it takes time , effort, AND fate.** What he said. It’s like what people tell you about finding ‘that girl’. You don’t find them by looking, it just kind of happens. It’s basically the same thing with finding a close male friend. Next time someone says something like ‘celerytree, you’re a cool guy’ try making the initiative to hang out with them (if it’s someone you could see yourselves being friends with). ---
**Author:** ![Jakelwilliams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/db5fbb/32.png) [@Jakelwilliams](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jakelwilliams)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/need-better-guy-friends/39683/10 "2010-06-29T18:44:30Z")
> [@celerytree](#): > > In general, I don’t have much trouble interacting with women. I’m comfortable introducing myself and having short conversations. Once I get to know them, I can add steer conversations in multiple directions – sexual, serious, or completely random. I’ve noticed that I’ve had two main problems. > > (1) Getting stuck in the friend zone: I used to have a ton of problems with this. However, I’ve really focused on breaking out of the friend zone over the past few months through behavioral changes and, more recently, pheromones. I’ve made some significant progress, but if anyone has some more useful tips, I’ll take them. I’m more concerned with fixing #2. > > (2) Guy friends: I’ve been told several times recently that I have a ton of girl friends. There are several that I can think of off the top of my head that I know I could call at almost any time of the day or night and they would be there to give me a hand. No, not that type of hand. Get your mind out of the gutter. > > What I don’t have is that many really good guy friends. I have a lot of guy friends, but none that I would feel comfortable calling up and asking for favors. I don’t think I’ve ever been considered “one of the boys”. I’m really big into community service – something that most guys my age could care less about. I’m athletic, but I couldn’t care less about watching sports. I’m not a huge partier and I’m even less of a video gamer. I definitely get respect hits from most of my guy friends, and they’re generally along the lines of “celery, you’re a really cool guy”. Not so much “celery, we should hang out sometime.” > > I’m looking for any suggestions, pheromone related or not, that could help me make some better guy friends! Try “Going Kino” used in Pick Up Artists techniques, it is where you simply touch them, not necessarily in a sexual way, as a matter of fact, go with a kino ladder. Run a routine. Cold read, and pretend to read her palm. go to get a drink, touch her shoulder as you usher her through a crowd, etc. ---
**Author:** ![celerytree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@celerytree](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/celerytree)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 5:41am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/need-better-guy-friends/39683/11 "2010-06-30T05:41:19Z")
Thanks for all the advice, guys! > [@Bearcat](#): > > I think a good daily phero-sig for your goal would be 2 sprays of IG 2, a spray or 2 of IH and 20-30mcg of P83 for good measure. I just got my IG today. I think I’ll give that one a try sometime once I get my sweet spot figured out. I’m going to China tomorrow, so I won’t be able to use it one anybody here in the states, but maybe I’ll be able to pick me up some erone sensitive Asian girls. 🙂 > [@Jakelwilliams](#): > > Try “Going Kino” used in Pick Up Artists techniques, it is where you simply touch them, not necessarily in a sexual way, as a matter of fact, go with a kino ladder. Run a routine. Cold read, and pretend to read her palm. go to get a drink, touch her shoulder as you usher her through a crowd, etc. My first reaction was “Won’t that give off a serious gay vibe?” until I realized you were referring to getting out of the friend zone! Thanks for the advice. I actually have been focusing on increasing my kino lately with some good results. ---
**Author:** ![Wrlprchnx](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/wrlprchnx/32/1360_2.png) [@Wrlprchnx](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Wrlprchnx)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 1:37pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/need-better-guy-friends/39683/12 "2010-06-30T13:37:35Z")
and actually heterosexual guys react well to other men who are comfortable enough to touch them (in obviously non-sexual ways) I’m not talking about hugs here, but you can always tell when guys are good friends because at the very least when they greet each other they touch. My best suggestion to finding more guy friends is to participate in a team sport… Slo-Pitch, Soccer, Bowling, Curling, etc… for most sports there are far more guys than gals and the best way to become a guys friend is to compete on the same team as him. (If you really aren’t sporty, the non-sporty teams work just as well) Oh, and stay the fuck away from A1 around guys you want to be friends with. ---
**Author:** ![mackie72](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mackie72/32/623_2.png) [@mackie72](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mackie72)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/need-better-guy-friends/39683/13 "2010-06-30T14:27:29Z")
Hi Celerytree! Like everyone says friendships will develop naturally and also friendships will die naturally. I think it is important to be secure in yourself and feel comfortable with your own company and not allow your self esteem to be based on your current popularity - whatever you perceive it to be. Friendships can be fickle at the best of times and like you said you are not a man’s man which is ok. I was unfortunate to work with somebody who was always comparing other peoples possessions with what she had. When I moved house she wanted a bigger house. She always was bigging her self up boasting about how many friends she had, but she was insecure, restless and focused on fault finding, negativity and critical if other people didnt live up to her ideals. Basically she was a pain in the ass to work with. Rather than seeking new friends, seek to know yourself better is my advice and not to put any needless pressure on yourself trying to conform to society’s ideals. ---
**Author:** ![MisterMagik](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mistermagik/32/2360_2.png) [@MisterMagik](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/MisterMagik)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/need-better-guy-friends/39683/14 "2010-07-01T02:21:28Z")
Making guy friends who are on a brother level, like the gentleman above mentioned, takes time, patience, and it takes being comfortable with your masculinity. This is something I have taught for years on wingmen and wingship with men. You NEED brothers. Part of that is finding someone who has no machisimo. Real men don’t need it for the simple fact that machisimo is utterly useless and wastes time. See if you can find a mens group in your area that teaches …well..on being men..there you will find like-minded individuals who are brother material. Making friends is easy to many, but finding brothers in that mix is a numbers game like any other type of “game.”