# new bottle of EOW , it has almost no smell at all!! **URL:** \ **Category:** Women's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [February 19, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282 "2009-02-19T20:47:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/61 "2009-02-21T19:16:52Z")
Well, I feel really, really stupid. These are short-chain fatty acids, not long chain fatty acids. That means a two step ether and sodium hydroxide extraction, not ethanol extraction. I’ll have to think about this. I don’t have a hood and I’m not sure I really want NaOH and ether laying around. ☹ Chit! It’s easier and cheaper to just order them online than try to do this without a hood. Except butyric acid, which is considered hazardous… it is the one that smells like butt cheese anyway. Diane ---
**Author:** ![AshesBlue](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/ashesblue/32/895_2.png) [@AshesBlue](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/AshesBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/62 "2009-02-21T20:28:43Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > I talked to Michael about this issue a while back. He said at that time that he was working on a copulins formula, and he specifically said what he was working on did not contain other pheromones, like Androstenol or Androstenone. > > That doesn’t mean Androtics won’t make mixes with it, like before. But considering the overwhelming desire for pure cops expressed by the women on this forum, and Androtic’s penchant for giving us what we want (thanks for spoiling us, Mom!) we will probably be able to get Michael’s formulation without cover scent. > > But this was just posted by Jasmin in the Store section of the forum regarding her communications with Michael: > > This tells me it is not going to be a simple pure copulins formula. > > Diane Really? Why is that? I went into the “store section” last night just so I could say I did my best to look at everything. I thought he was talking about “flavorists”, because of all the different scents that women’s natural scents tend to depend on what they eat, but that was a total assumption on my part. Now Im a bit perplexed, about them probably not making a pure cop’s formula. > [@diane999](#): > > Well, I feel really, really stupid. These are short-chain fatty acids, not long chain fatty acids. That means a two step ether and sodium hydroxide extraction, not ethanol extraction. > > I’ll have to think about this. I don’t have a hood and I’m not sure I really want NaOH and ether laying around. ☹ Chit! > > It’s easier and cheaper to just order them online than try to do this without a hood. Except butyric acid, which is considered hazardous… it is the one that smells like butt cheese anyway. > > Diane Ahh no worries! I honestly thought it sounded “too easy”, although Im sure w/the right equipment youd be very capable. I just imagine you in your garage like the scientist in “Flubber” lol. I do find your posts fascinating and fun to read. I still dont see why the “pros” (in general) cant use more natural formulations. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/63 "2009-02-21T21:17:05Z")
> [@AshesBlue](#): > > Really? Why is that? I went into the “store section” last night just so I could say I did my best to look at everything. I thought he was talking about “flavorists”, because of all the different scents that women’s natural scents tend to depend on what they eat, but that was a total assumption on my part. > Now Im a bit perplexed, about them probably not making a pure cop’s formula. > > Ahh no worries! I honestly thought it sounded “too easy”, although Im sure w/the right equipment youd be very capable. > I just imagine you in your garage like the scientist in “Flubber” lol. > I do find your posts fascinating and fun to read. > I still dont see why the “pros” (in general) cant use more natural formulations. 😕 Anything is easy if you have the right equipment… LOL. All the short chain fatty acids are readily available from chemical supply houses. The ratios and percentages of each is available from the literature. Anyone who has ever done any chemistry reagent calculations can figure it out. It isn’t brain surgery, so I don’t know why it isn’t just made available. From the literature on human copulin production at mid month hormonal peak: **Percentage ratios by weight:** D- and L-lactic acid \*- 82.5% \* acetic acid - _8.2%_ propanoic (propionic) acid - _2.4%_ methyl-propanoic (isobutyric) acid - _0.2%_ butanoic (butyric) acid - _1%_ methylbutanoic (isovaleric) acid - _5.6%_ methylpentanoic (valeric) acid - \< \*0.1% \*How hard can it be, really, to mix up a solution with these percentages? If I had a lab I could order all these online readily enough and do it in a heartbeat. And the total initial cost for the chemicals would be very reasonable. The only expensive one is the butyric acid. It is $320/gram. But if you consider it is only 1% of the total per weight, this isn’t much of an initial outlay cost. EOW’s manufacturers left out the lactic acid and their ratios are off, if they are listing ingredients from highest concentration to lowest. And they added Hexanoic acid, Indole, and benzenthiol. Hexanoic acid smells like goats and other barnyard animals, Indole has a fecal odor at high concentration and a sweet, floral scent at low concentrations, and benzenethiol has a repulsive, penetrating odor like rotting cheese mixed with pure garlic. None of these three chemicals is found in naturally occuring copulins. Indole is produced by intestinal anaerobic bacteria. Hexanoic acid is found in milk fats and coconuts. I don’t know where benzenetiol is found naturally, but other thiols are found in skunk spray, onions, garlic, decomposing meat, and feces. To be fair, I went to the scent catalog and pulled out all the FA’s listed in natural copulins. **Fatty Acid** \*\* and Scent at 1% solution\*\* 82.5 % Lactic acid: almost no scent, slight and pleasant if detectable 8.3% Acetic acid: sharp, acidic, vinegar scent 5.6% Methylbutanoic (isovaleric) acid: sour, stinky, sweaty feet 2.4% Propanoic (propionic) acid: pungent, acidic dairy scent 1.0% Butanoic (butyric) acid: pungent, acidic cheese 0.2% Methylpropanoic (isobutyric) acid: acidic butter sour cheese \< 0.1% Methylpentanoic (valeric) acid: pungent cheese Diane ---
**Author:** ![AshesBlue](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/ashesblue/32/895_2.png) [@AshesBlue](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/AshesBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/64 "2009-02-21T21:33:17Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > Anything is easy if you have the right equipment… LOL. > > All the short chain fatty acids are readily available from chemical supply houses. The ratios and percentages of each is available from the literature. Anyone who has ever done any chemistry reagent calculations can figure it out. It isn’t brain surgery, so I don’t know why it isn’t just made available. > > From the literature on human copulin production at mid month hormonal peak: > > **Percentage ratios by weight:** > > D- and L-lactic acid _- 82.5%_ > > acetic acid - _8.2%_ > > propanoic (propanoic) acid - _2.4%_ > > methyl-propanoic (isobutyric) acid - _0.2%_ > > butanoic (butyric) acid - _1%_ > > methylbutanoic (isovaleric) acid - _5.6%_ > > methylpentanoic (valeric) acid - _0.1%_ > > How hard can it be, really, to mix up a solution with these percentages? If I had a lab I could order all these online readily enough and do it in a heartbeat. And the total initial cost for the chemicals would be very reasonable. The only expensive one is the butyric acid. It is $320/gram. But if you consider it is only 1% of the total per weight, this isn’t much of an initial outlay cost. > > EOW’s manufacturers left out the lactic acid and their ratios are off, if they are listing ingredients from highest concentration to lowest. **And they added Hexanoic acid, Indole, and benzenthiol. Hexanoic acid smells like goats and other barnyard animals, Indole smells like feces, and benzenethiol either smells like rotting cheese or the funk from a skunk.** > > Diane All I can say (ok thats a lie, I can say way more lol) is EWW 😮 Seriously that is just rank, are they just trying to find foul smelling crap (literally) and mixing together and “Ta-Da”? lol Im glad I cant smell all of that in there, especially the feces. Im more confused than ever lol. The fun part is the journey of getting “un-confused”. I have too much time on my hands, I should be reading my C# book. 😮 ---
**Author:** ![Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gone_with_the_wind/32/2227_2.png) [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gone_with_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/65 "2009-02-21T21:44:01Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > … > From the literature on human copulin production at mid month hormonal peak: > > **Percentage ratios by weight:** > > D- and L-lactic acid _- 82.5%_ > > acetic acid - _8.2%_ > > propanoic (propanoic) acid - _2.4%_ > > methyl-propanoic (isobutyric) acid - _0.2%_ > > butanoic (butyric) acid - _1%_ > > methylbutanoic (isovaleric) acid - _5.6%_ > > methylpentanoic (valeric) acid - _0.1%_ > > … Great information. Reps to you. Will you provide a reference? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![renny](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/renny/32/2104_2.png) [@renny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/renny)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/66 "2009-02-21T21:54:18Z")
Butyric acid is some ripe stuff. I remember a long ago college prank involving just a few CCs of the liquid revulsion that resulted in a mutiday dorm evacuation. "course that wasn’t as bad as the magnesium spill in a local lake. Ahh the good ol’ days. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/67 "2009-02-21T22:49:18Z")
I’m sorry… I know everyone is going \>\< at these posts! I’m just starved for a good copulins formula!!! So, please forgive the rants, the crazy geeking out I’m going through. I gotta deal with this somehow! 😃 And thanks for your patience! 😛 I’m going to stop now, throw on some _ **MX109** _ and go out to dinner with the family. 🙂 Diane ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/68 "2009-02-21T22:51:50Z")
> [@renny](#): > > Butyric acid is some ripe stuff. I remember a long ago college prank involving just a few CCs of the liquid revulsion that resulted in a mutiday dorm evacuation. "course that wasn’t as bad as the magnesium spill in a local lake. Ahh the good ol’ days. 😃 Dawn at night? LOL Diane ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/69 "2009-02-21T22:53:51Z")
> [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](#): > > Great information. Reps to you. > > Will you provide a reference? > > Thanks. Yes, actually I did provide a reference when I originally posted this… but I’ll dig it up again. Here ya go: **Human Vaginal Secretions, Volatile Fatty Acid Content:** [http://www.clt.astate.edu/aromero/2.1.pdf](http://www.clt.astate.edu/aromero/2.1.pdf) **Origins of vaginal acidity:** [Origins of vaginal acidity: high D/L lactate ratio is consistent with bacteria being the primary source – Boskey et al. 16 (9): 1809 – Human Reproduction](http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/16/9/1809) **Vaginal Flora, lactobacillus, and growth media:** [Growth and lactic acid production by vaginal Lactobacillus acidophilus CRL 1259, and inhibition of uropathogenic Escherichia coli – Jurez Toms et al. 52 (12): 1117 – Journal of Medical Microbiology](http://jmm.sgmjournals.org/cgi/content/full/52/12/1117) ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/70 "2009-02-21T22:56:11Z")
> [@AshesBlue](#): > > All I can say (ok thats a lie, I can say way more lol) is EWW 😮 > Seriously that is just rank, are they just trying to find foul smelling crap (literally) and mixing together and “Ta-Da”? > lol > Im glad I cant smell all of that in there, especially the feces. > Im more confused than ever lol. > The fun part is the journey of getting “un-confused”. > > I have too much time on my hands, I should be reading my C# book. 😮 I’m not in their formulator’s head, so I’m not sure. The hexanoic acid is for the musky note, I think. btw, I edited a ton on the previous post (I usually do) so there’s more there. Diane ---
**Author:** ![Gegogi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gegogi/32/1536_2.png) [@Gegogi](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gegogi)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/71 "2009-02-22T04:08:32Z")
Indole is often used in perfumery as a fixative or base note. I’m guessing a small amount in EOW was used not as a component of cops but for its fixative nature. Ah dunno, lots of guys enjoy the faint scent of ass so perhaps it was added for that reason. Whatever, I can’t smell it in my EOW but perhaps it accounts for the sight flowery scent some have noticed. ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/72 "2009-02-22T04:34:13Z")
One more note about copulins and then I’ll leave it alone for now. 😛 Way back when, a few people made posts about why Androtics wasn’t making copulins. One of the factors was the overwhelming smell of the reagents. Another was because of the caustic nature of the acids. I’m not sure, really, why either of these things was an issue or even if they still apply. Are these really problems? Hoods with proper venting is normal for any lab, as are proper storage cabinets with venting when/if necessary. As for the corrosiveness or caustic nature of copulins, yes, they are around 4.0 - 4.5 pH and this is acidic, and not good around rubber. But teflon tops and glassware is the norm for working with these. And what is wrong with selling these with a _silicone_ rather than rubber dropper tops? And in the proper ratios and percentages in solution, these are exactly what is produced in the vagina of every woman of child-bearing age. A healthy vagina is acidic for a reason… it kills off disease causing bacteria and keeps the environment healthy. Leaving out those chemicals that are not copulins (like benzenthiol) and making sure the acids are in the right ratios should take care of any concerns around toxicity, I would think. 🙄 The copulin acids listed in my post above were eluted directly off of special tampons taken out of the vaginas of healthy, young, ovulating women who were deemed “producers”. That is about all I can say about how caustic or toxic these are in the right amounts and ratios. 😛 Androtics would still need to add an antioxidant to retard spoilage, since fatty acids oxidize pretty readily even in solution, and oxidizing would cause the copulins to become rancid. But there are plenty of healthier alternatives, like BHT or Ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) that wouldn’t change the nature of the copulins, wouldn’t change the pH, wouldn’t be toxic, wouldn’t alter the scent profile, and would preserve the mixture. So, what, really, is the hold-up? Diane ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 5:12am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/73 "2009-02-22T05:12:45Z")
> [@Gegogi](#): > > Indole is often used in perfumery as a fixative or base note. I’m guessing a small amount in EOW was used not as a component of cops but for its fixative nature. Ah dunno, lots of guys enjoy the faint scent of ass so perhaps it was added for that reason. Whatever, I can’t smell it in my EOW but perhaps it accounts for the sight flowery scent some have noticed. Michael told me he thought Indole was added for a fecal note, trying for an overall scent signature. Personally, I think feces has no place, scent or otherwise, in sex. Call me biased, call me vanilla, call me a prude if you need too… but feces and sex… ewwww! And that’s the thing about adding thiols that has me really confused… Thiols are those compounds whose smell tell us that something is unhealthy and should be avoided… like a decomposing corpse or rotting meat. It is a smell associated with disease. It seems any thiol smell would detract from an attractant designed to advertise _healthy ovulating female_. Diane ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 9:40am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/74 "2009-02-22T09:40:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Are these really problems? Hoods with proper venting is normal for any lab, as are proper storage cabinets with venting when/if necessary. Yes the size and location of the lab and the experience of the Technicians still make this a issue. I agree with the confusion on smell. I think what makes it hard is men smell something totally different then we do when they smell these compounds. Just as we do with say… anone. Men say it smells like cat piss but women don’t, most love the smell or at least find it pleasant. Its easier with anone though because its more about the molecule then the scent. > [@](#): > > Androtics would still need to add an antioxidant to retard spoilage, since fatty acids oxidize pretty readily even in solution, and oxidizing would cause the copulins to become rancid. But there are plenty of healthier alternatives, like BHT or Ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) that wouldn’t change the nature of the copulins, wouldn’t change the pH, wouldn’t be toxic, wouldn’t alter the scent profile, and would preserve the mixture. They just do not have the funds to develop this in house at this time. There are so many molecules they have lined up for testing and investing the time needed to create a in house formula for cops is a huge endeavor. They do understand the need for copulins though which is why they went ahead and commissioned Michael Storer make a version. Frankly even though the old copulins smelled they worked and were easy enough to cover. frankly I would rather use something that works even if it stinks. I can cover the smell. I would have just kept offering those while MStorer worked on a new formula. Then transitioned over. Waiting on these cops has got to be causing a big loss in sales. Women spend a lot of money on mones. All that cash could be going into research of the new cutting edge molecules they have lined up. The Astrid Jutte formulation which is a formula of C2 C3 -C5 aliphatic acids didn’t contain indole which is part of the natural crotch scent. It is used as a fixative as Gegogi mentioned. Astrid Jutte’s formulation wasn’t worn in testing just inhaled directly. Astrid Jutte is the best formula of copulins and the one tested to raise men’s testosterone levels. The problem in my opinion is it did this when men smelled it directly from a concentrated source. I think the offensive smells like idoles and Butyric acid which are frequently used in perfumery are there more to fix and carry it. **I am not a perfumer of a chemist so this is just my opinion.** With formulating copulins for the sale and use of attracting men in general you have to look at it from two angles. Biology and Perfumery. Copulins are only effective if you can get them to diffuse off the body. The men we want to attract are not always standing a foot away from your crotch. Its my guess this is why some of the nasty stinkers are used in there just as they are used with perfume. So if they come up with a formula that is more accurate and smells more healthy that doesn’t necessarily means it will work from a perfuming perspective regarding diffusion and sillage. Its my opinion this is part of the problem with SOE which uses the Astrid Jutte formula. Sure it smells more like a healthy vagina but it doesn’t have the pull of the more stinky mones that get out there and carry those vaginal scents. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gone_with_the_wind/32/2227_2.png) [@Gone\_with\_the\_Wind](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gone_with_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/75 "2009-02-22T15:49:57Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > … I’ll dig it up again. > > Here ya go: > … Somehow I missed your earlier posts. Thanks for taking the time to dig out your references. Much appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/76 "2009-02-22T16:23:58Z")
> [@tisha23](#): > > Yes the size and location of the lab and the experience of the Technicians still make this a issue. > > I agree with the confusion on smell. I think what makes it hard is men smell something totally different then we do when they smell these compounds. Just as we do with say… anone. Men say it smells like cat piss but women don’t, most love the smell or at least find it pleasant. Its easier with anone though because its more about the molecule then the scent. > > They just do not have the funds to develop this in house at this time. There are so many molecules they have lined up for testing and investing the time needed to create a in house formula for cops is a huge endeavor. They do understand the need for copulins though which is why they went ahead and commissioned Michael Storer make a version. > > Frankly even though the old copulins smelled they worked and were easy enough to cover. frankly I would rather use something that works even if it stinks. I can cover the smell. > > I would have just kept offering those while MStorer worked on a new formula. Then transitioned over. Waiting on these cops has got to be causing a big loss in sales. Women spend a lot of money on mones. All that cash could be going into research of the new cutting edge molecules they have lined up. > > The Astrid Jutte formulation which is a formula of C2 C3 -C5 aliphatic acids didn’t contain indole which is part of the natural crotch scent. It is used as a fixative as Gegogi mentioned. Astrid Jutte’s formulation wasn’t worn in testing just inhaled directly. Astrid Jutte is the best formula of copulins and the one tested to raise men’s testosterone levels. The problem in my opinion is it did this when men smelled it directly from a concentrated source. I think the offensive smells like idoles and Butyric acid which are frequently used in perfumery are there more to fix and carry it. **I am not a perfumer of a chemist so this is just my opinion.** > > With formulating copulins for the sale and use of attracting men in general you have to look at it from two angles. Biology and Perfumery. Copulins are only effective if you can get them to diffuse off the body. The men we want to attract are not always standing a foot away from your crotch. Its my guess this is why some of the nasty stinkers are used in there just as they are used with perfume. So if they come up with a formula that is more accurate and smells more healthy that doesn’t necessarily means it will work from a perfuming perspective regarding diffusion and sillage. Its my opinion this is part of the problem with SOE which uses the Astrid Jutte formula. Sure it smells more like a healthy vagina but it doesn’t have the pull of the more stinky mones that get out there and carry those vaginal scents. > > Tisha Tisha you makes some good points, and I always value your opinion. Here are my counterpoints. 1. The acids in natural copulins are uber cheap. DL-lactic acid: 500 mL - $44 glacial acetic acid: 500 mL -$30 isovaleric (methylbutaoic) acid: 500 mL - $22 isobutyric (methylpropanoic) acid: 500 mL - $40 propionic (propanoic) acid: 500 mL - $62 valeric (pentanoic) acid: 250 mL- $39 butanoic (butyric) acid: 1 gram - $320 isovaleric (methylbutaoic) acid: 500 mL - $22 hexanoic (caproic) acid: 500 mL - $42 1. Even a 2nd year general chemistry student should know how to handle all of these without problem, never mind a fully-trained lab technician. 2. A hood is a requirement, no matter the lab size, for most organic chemistry work, as is proper storage and disposal of hazardous waste. 3. I’m not sure about men not being able to smell copulins in their natural state, since we haven’t seen a product that even attempts to reproduce it. If it were formulated, then we could test that theory. I do know that I have listened to men, including my husband, talk about their reactions (when younger) to walking into a room with women in it and getting that whiff of pussy that just drove them wild. So something is diffusing naturally. 4. These acids are very volatile by their nature. The problem as I see it is that in women they are naturally being continually produced in some quantity, and that quantity is greatly increased during ovulation. It isn’t a one-off application, like we would do with a copulins formula, rather a constant supply being made available and diffusing around them. So the problem would be weighting the cops down enough to keep the smell closer and the diffusion rate lower so the cops don’t just poof out into the air and dissipate immediately after application. Perfumers are used to working with volatile scent elements and know how to do this very well. 5. Indole - I think more analysis needs to be made on the scent elements of female girly parts, including compiling a complete flora characterization. Indole is produced by some anaerobic lactose-fermenting bacteria. But in the lab we used indole production as a way to differentiate pathogenic lactose-fermenting anaerobic bacteria from non-pathogenic lactose-fermenting anaerobic bacteria. Indole is produced by E. coli and Clostridium difficile, and other pathogenic anaerobes. Indole presence in the crotch, then would be either an indicator of bacterial vaginosis (a disease state) or poor hygiene or both. It’s odor is listed as feces and mothball/napthalene/floral. Diane ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/77 "2009-02-22T18:59:30Z")
Like I mentioned I am not a chemist or a perfumer. My expertice lies in what they do not how to make them. I leave chemistry to my brother. I do recall a member here… DrSmellThis talking about Idole and how its used in perfumery. He is a maker of “pheros” I cant recall his reasoning though. Astrid Jutte didnt use idole in her testing. I mentioned C2 and C5 from the abstracts but I dont know what those are. You probably do. Testosterone levels did increase, not just during ovulation but in the other two groups as well. However it was highest at ovulation. > [@](#): > > Men Respond to the Scent of a Woman New Scientist 7 Sept 1996 > > IT HAS long been believed that men are unable to tell when women ovulate. But new research from Austria suggests that although men may not be aware that a woman is ovulating, they do respond physiologically with increased testosterone levels. Astrid Jutte, a researcher at the Ludwig Boltzmann Institute for Urban Ethology in Vienna, carried out tests on 106 men, divided into four groups. Three groups were asked to inhale one of three synthetically produced human copulins-fatty acids found in vaginal secretions in women at various times during the menstrual cycle. one of the copulins mimicked ovulation, one menstruation and the third another point in the cycle. The fourth group of men inhaled only water vapour. Jutte found that testosterone levels in the saliva of those men exposed to the scent of ovulation increased by half, while levels in those sniffing only water dropped by half. Levels in the two other groups increased slightly, says Jutte. > [@](#): > > Here are my counterpoints. The acids in natural copulins are uber cheap. I understand where your coming from but this is what Michael has said regarding making them in house. I dont think he will change his mind anytime soon. He is pretty adamant on that. I am in agreement with you. > [@](#): > > No, I said we wouldn’t be coming out with a strong copulin formula based standard (or traditional) copulin formularly, and we’re definitely not. We’re NOT a toxic sciences lab! 🙂 > > There’s another approach I discussed with you, and we’re going down _that_ road instead. It requires far more research and investment. It’s the longer, but better, road. > [@](#): > > I want our new approach to smell like a real, _healthy_ women. Preferably the scent a woman gives off near ovulation, not the other time of the month. > > It’s not on our normal timeline since we’re not working on this internally, and none of the normal outside people we work with are involved with it. I have one of the world’s few heterosexual, woman-loving \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_s on the case. 🙂 > > It may take quite awhile. I’ll do a status check soon, but I really don’t want to rush it. > > You know we’re a bit slow sometimes. That’s because I’ve never been in a rush to have _something_ to sell. To me, it’s only fair to sell something when there’s something _worth_ selling. Does that make sense? > [@](#): > > I won’t sell anything that I don’t think is “worth it”, that’s why I won’t sell you plain **copulins**. > [@](#): > > The bottom line, is that if a formula requires that we provide an MSDS to consumers, we’re not selling it. It’s not part of our plan to be in anything other than the cosmetics industry. > > We are working on an cosmetic grade alternative to traditional copulin formulary > [@](#): > > Yeah, massive quantities of pheromones I can stand, even though several really do one’s head in in quantity. But a couple of the copulin ingredients? No thank you. > > In fact, I fear the person who can “noseball” (like eyeballing, only with your nose 🙂) fragrance components to a scent like natural vaginal musk. That job would not be for the faint of heart. I’m sure the typical perfumer would fail outright. Better to do it completely by chemical analysis. While I have hope that Michael Storer will be able to come up with a effective product. I dont care what it smells like. I am personaly afraid it will be a pretty smelling vagina scent that wont have the same reaction as the more acidic smelly copulins that are effective. In the past the pretty or weak smelling ones dont work well. I cant tell you why it just is. No offence Michael. Genvieve is totally amazing 😃 Truly girls you have to get it LOL I dont want perfume though when I buy mones, I want copulins. I feel trying to make them smell good is a moot point. They smell, get over it and make the darn things LOL Its not like we buy them to smell pretty. They know what copulins are made of, Diane posted above what they are made from. While I know I am being a catty little bitch about it (snort) I am watching my copulin supply dwindle and that bottle of industrial cops from the bad place I have is starting to call to me. I will have to resort to Cleopatras methods soon 😃 Tisha ---
**Author:** ![Robbie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2acd7d/32.png) [@Robbie](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Robbie)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/78 "2009-02-22T19:08:37Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > DL-lactic acid: 500 mL - $44 > glacial acetic acid: 500 mL -$30 > isovaleric (methylbutaoic) acid: 500 mL - $22 > isobutyric (methylpropanoic) acid: 500 mL - $40 > propionic (propanoic) acid: 500 mL - $62 > valeric (pentanoic) acid: 250 mL- $39 > butanoic (butyric) acid: 1 gram - $320 > isovaleric (methylbutaoic) acid: 500 mL - $22 > > hexanoic (caproic) acid: 500 mL - $42 Making a man your sex slave… _PRICELESS._ ---
**Author:** ![diane999](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/diane999/32/1110_2.png) [@diane999](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/diane999)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/79 "2009-02-22T20:38:02Z")
> [@tisha23](#): > > While I have hope that Michael Storer will be able to come up with a effective product. I dont care what it smells like. I am personaly afraid it will be a pretty smelling vagina scent that wont have the same reaction as the more acidic smelly copulins that are effective. In the past the pretty or weak smelling ones dont work well. I cant tell you why it just is. > > No offence Michael. Genvieve is totally amazing 😃 Truly girls you have to get it LOL I dont want perfume though when I buy mones, I want copulins. I feel trying to make them smell good is a moot point. They smell, get over it and make the darn things LOL Its not like we buy them to smell pretty. They know what copulins are made of, Diane posted above what they are made from. > > While I know I am being a catty little bitch about it (snort) I am watching my copulin supply dwindle and that bottle of industrial cops from the bad place I have is starting to call to me. > > I will have to resort to Cleopatras methods soon 😃 > > Tisha You know I agree with you 100% here, Tisha. It is an understatement to say that it is very disheartening to know that Androtics does not put value in something that is so valuable to us women. I want cops and I’m going to get and use cops, whatever that takes. And if that means going to someplace where they don’t mind providing MSDS sheets, so be it. If it means hiring a chemist to formulate it for me, so be it. If it means going to another supplier, so be it. Diane ---
**Author:** ![ariadne](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/ariadne/32/770_2.png) [@ariadne](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ariadne)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282/80 "2009-02-22T21:07:34Z")
> [@diane999](#): > > You know I agree with you 100% here, Tisha. It is an understatement to say that it is very disheartening to know that Androtics does not put value in something that is so valuable to us women. > > I want cops and I’m going to get and use cops, whatever that takes. And if that means going to someplace where they don’t mind providing MSDS sheets, so be it. If it means hiring a chemist to formulate it for me, so be it. If it means going to another supplier, so be it. I have to agree with this, as well. We all know that if Androtics would come up with a straight copulin product of high quality, they would have a built-in loyal customer base that would purchase it time and again. It makes no sense to me, from a business standpoint, why they choose to not provide this. I just wish EoW wasn’t such an unpredictable product. I really don’t understand why I have luck with the honey/cops oil, and I’m hoping it’s just not a batch variability issue. If I buy another bottle and it doesn’t work, I will be angry. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282.md?page=3) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/new-bottle-of-eow-it-has-almost-no-smell-at-all/26282.md?page=5)