# Noob help & Summer Ammo depressing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [February 12, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148 "2013-02-12T18:46:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dwei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b77776/32.png) [@Dwei](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Dwei)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/1 "2013-02-12T18:46:12Z")
Summer Ammo I have tried twice. 2 sprays the first time by itself. Second time 1 spray plus 3 spray IS. Both times it made me feel depressed and kind of weak/ non masculine. I am 23 white. Is this something that others have noticed? I will try it a few more times but I feel like I wasted 50 bucks on something that makes me depressed and hasnt gotten any hits Ive really noticed. And below are a few tests Ive done and some things Ive noticed. Havent really found the right mix apparently. If anyone feels like reading through and giving me some tips that would be cool. Instant Gentlemen 2.5 sprays and 2 sprays from IH togo got me some incredible hits… from a couple of 50 year old receptionists. Im 23 and looking for girls in the 18-25 range. So not really what Im looking for. They were really funny though. Just swooning over me like a couple of school girls. Got me an appointment 2 months ahead the earliest opening so I see the power of mones I just need to get the right mix. IG 1.5 sprays and 3 IS sprays made me feel great. Relaxed, confident, masculine. Only 1 hit that I could see. Girl in class kept looking at me. But there were many girls in the class and she wasnt particularly good looking so… guess I need to keep experimenting. I tried 1 spray IG, 2 spray IO, 1 to go spray tuth. I think that one Tuth made me OD even though it was under my shirt and buffered with the other stuff. The girl next to me was really fidgety and looked kind of pissed off and basically sprinted out of class when the bell rang lol. I want to give off kind of a young, virile, masculine, yet fun and approachable vibe to get 18-25 year old girls. I figure a club/ party mix would be easier with none, but Im having difficulty finding something for a college class/ college campus type surrounding. I thought [Summer Ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/) would be perfect for that but I feel like it doesnt have enough kick. It makes me feel depressed and weak. Rather than confident. And apparently I cant add much none because I guess I OD easy. I think 2x Summer Ammo made me OD but I cant be sure. ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/2 "2013-02-12T19:07:32Z")
Try IS AMMO [P75](https://a314.com/product/p75/) IO ---
**Author:** ![Dwei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b77776/32.png) [@Dwei](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Dwei)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/3 "2013-02-12T19:59:10Z")
> [@dsouza](#): > > Try IS AMMO P75 IO Should I think about returning the [Summer Ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/) for normal AMmo? Can you even do that? The whole reason I went for Summer Ammo over normal was because I heard it worked on younger girls, while standard ammo works on older… but if summer ammo makes me depressed its obviously not worth any effects on women it may have.. p75 huh? What effects does that have? ---
**Author:** ![Dwei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b77776/32.png) [@Dwei](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Dwei)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/4 "2013-02-12T23:22:02Z")
What would give [Summer Ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/) a more masculine/ sexy bite to it that isnt -none and isnt overbearing for a college class/ campus environment? I feel like since Im 23 and Type O blood I OD on none easily (from what I can tell that seems the case). But Summer Ammo just doesnt seem masculine enough as is. ---
**Author:** ![mobocaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mobocaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mobocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 1:10am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/5 "2013-02-13T01:10:38Z")
You might find that is the result of the TAA in summer Ammo and in the IS. It can make you feel a bit down/drawn/burned out after a while and TBH, [Summer Ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/) plus three sprays IS is a fairly hefty dose of TAA for someone starting out - Its self effects, good and bad are often strongest/most apparent when you first start using them - however they do normally settle right down after a while and TAA is also one of the fastest for getting used to. I’ve also found P75 a good one to enhance the sexuality/masculine impact of Summer Ammo (and many other pheros) without the potential negatives of none - Which makes it very usable around younger women/Asians/none-unresponsive people. If you are going that way, start with the 2.5mcg concentration and keep your dose low. Any amount of threads on P75 if you search - its a potent masculine vibe. ---
**Author:** ![Dwei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b77776/32.png) [@Dwei](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Dwei)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/6 "2013-02-13T01:17:17Z")
> [@mobocaster](#): > > You might find that is the result of the TAA in summer Ammo and in the IS. > > It can make you feel a bit down/drawn/burned out after a while and TBH, Summer Ammo plus three sprays IS is a fairly hefty dose of TAA for someone starting out - Its self effects, good and bad are often strongest/most apparent when you first start using them - however they do normally settle right down after a while and TAA is also one of the fastest for getting used to. > > I’ve also found P75 a good one to enhance the sexuality/masculine impact of Summer Ammo (and many other pheros) without the potential negatives of none - Which makes it very usable around younger women/Asians/none-unresponsive people. If you are going that way, start with the 2.5mcg concentration and keep your dose low. > > Any amount of threads on P75 if you search - its a potent masculine vibe. Hm.. well the P75 sounds good I will look into it. But as for the TAA idk. When using IG 2x and IS 3x I feel great. But when using [Summer Ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/) just 1x by itself I immediately start feeling depressed. If this TAA is also in IS I doubt thats whats causing it. ---
**Author:** ![mobocaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mobocaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mobocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/7 "2013-02-13T01:23:11Z")
Remember that the TAA in IS is steered by two unknown molecules - Which does give it a very different feel initially. If I’m getting the IS crash (search it, several threads) its not normally till several hours later when the steering may well have expired. Also, the rone-inspired confidence in IG is steered in a bright/forward and longer lasting direction, which may also be carrying the IS to some degree. But yes, if you are getting negative effects from a mix, it is sometimes a process of elimination to find the component/s that you don’t respond well to yourself. AD have a superb warranty - You should have no poblems exchanging Summer for Regular. Just drop Mickaelia or John an email as they won’t handle order/return issues on the forum because its not secure. ---
**Author:** ![Mysterion](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mysterion/32/986_2.png) [@Mysterion](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mysterion)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/8 "2013-02-13T01:34:47Z")
Hi mobo and dwei, mobocaster, if he gets depressed from [Summer Ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/) and IShine immediately then I doubt it’s the TAA because that infamous down-effect only occurs when either the TAA or the binding molecules wear off (this is unknown right?). Since the TAA from Summer Ammo is still bound to the IShine molecules I dont see why a depressed state would occur immediately, unless the OP reacts badly to P130. Dwei, P75 is in fact what you’re looking for. Spray no more than 2.5 mcg, and if you want do some researching about P75 - apparently it has a time window of about 2 hours to soak in before it takes effect, but lasts long. Just mentioning, do some research if you want to find out more 🙂 If you react well to Ammo IShine combo then I am pretty certain the P130 is partially or entirely at fault. ---
**Author:** ![mobocaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mobocaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mobocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 2:11am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/9 "2013-02-13T02:11:07Z")
> [@Mysterion](#): > > Hi mobo and dwei, > > mobocaster, if he gets depressed from Summer Ammo and IShine immediately then I doubt it’s the TAA because that infamous down-effect only occurs when either the TAA or the binding molecules wear off This is why he will need to do some chopping and changing to determine - Yes, it could be the [P130](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p130/), or another molecule but so far I’ve seen very few reports of people going on a downer from P130 but IS/TAA has an established crash property for a significant number of people and sometimes it does hit very quickly - esp for a new user. Another thing that does seem to offset the IS crash significantly is to ensure you have some decent food and an electrolyte replenishing drink in your system. So diet/energy levels at the time are also something to consider - and to some extent this also holds true for nols and a few other pheros than can turn negative if you are a bit stressed/drained/tired to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/10 "2013-02-13T03:34:13Z")
> [@](#): > > And apparently I cant add much none because I guess I [OD](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacodynamics) easy. I think 2x Summer [Ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/) made me [OD](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacodynamics) but I cant be sure. Why do you guess you OD easy ? [Summer Ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/) would be less likely to make you OD because its more buffered then regular Ammo. > [@](#): > > I tried 1 spray IG, 2 spray IO, 1 to go spray tuth. I think that one Tuth made me OD even though it was under my shirt and buffered with the other stuff. The girl next to me was really fidgety and looked kind of pissed off and basically sprinted out of class when the bell rang lol. This is not an indication of OD. TUTH is sexually arousing. Women fidget when aroused. Class is not the place to use it though because you really cant act on that arousal and she left pissed because of the sexual tension created and not appeased. With depression your not describing an OD. Your describing a reaction to one of the molecules. The only way to figure out which is to use a process of elimination. Now it could be the combination of P130 and TAA is just to much for your system. As Mobo indicated you need to track when this occurs and what you were wearing or test the molecules out singularly to find which one doesn’t agree with you. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![pheronik](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/pheronik/32/248_2.png) [@pheronik](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/pheronik)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/11 "2013-02-14T02:36:00Z")
Mobocaster is right. I have myself experience burned (crash effects) after using both [Summer Ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/) and IS. I also have other mones but these two are specific to the reaction that you are getting. And no.. OD with summer AMMO is difficult as it is well buffered. But the TAA component is not a good match for everybody - unfortunately you are I are one of them. Try to exchange summer AMMO for regular one. I am not sure about IS but talking to Mickaelia will help. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cjohnson446](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@Cjohnson446](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Cjohnson446)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/12 "2013-02-15T21:12:22Z")
Hi I’ve noticed that same thing! It’s not just me!! I bought [Summer Ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/) for that cool relaxed vibe most people get, good on younger girls because I’m 27 etc. And for me, it almost makes me beta! It’s not a confidence booster like regular Ammo. I get better results from regular Ammo, or even Ammo 2x. I’m great with IS 2x, great with stand-alone P130 from the to-go bottles. But specifically Summer Ammo, it is not what I was hoping for at all. I guess it’s great for some people, but I’m getting basically the same vibe as the original poster. I’ve thought about it a couple of times. Bought it secondhand, so I can’t send it back. P130 is amazing BTW, wish it were offered in a bigger bottle. ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/13 "2013-02-16T02:07:52Z")
> [@Cjohnson446](#): > > Hi I’ve noticed that same thing! It’s not just me!! I bought Summer Ammo for that cool relaxed vibe most people get, good on younger girls because I’m 27 etc. And for me, it almost makes me beta! It’s not a confidence booster like regular Ammo. I get better results from regular Ammo, or even Ammo 2x. I’m great with IS 2x, great with stand-alone P130 from the to-go bottles. But specifically Summer Ammo, it is not what I was hoping for at all. I guess it’s great for some people, but I’m getting basically the same vibe as the original poster. I’ve thought about it a couple of times. Bought it secondhand, so I can’t send it back. P130 is amazing BTW, wish it were offered in a bigger bottle. Summer ammo is a gay mans mone.. There is nothing masculine about it.. get ready to be friended. Too many socials in there. [Ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/) is more masculine. Sure with summer ammo youngers girls will talk to you more and be more relaxed but you won’t close. ---
**Author:** ![Mysterion](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mysterion/32/986_2.png) [@Mysterion](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mysterion)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/14 "2013-02-16T02:31:47Z")
Cannot agree with dsouza. Closed multiple times with [Summer Ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/). What he thinks gay men are looking for I’m not sure about, but they’re attracted to high Androstenone because males don’t care so much about the social part. At least that’s the case for 2 gays I know; 1 became very curious when I used Summer Ammo and Ammo alike. And if you’re saying that gay men cannot be masculine and are pure beta instead, maybe you should reconsider your thoughts, it’s inappropriate. Consider mixing Summer Ammo with something else to appear more masculine. ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/15 "2013-02-16T02:41:33Z")
> [@Mysterion](#): > > Cannot agree with dsouza. Closed multiple times with Summer Ammo. What he thinks gay men are looking for I’m not sure about, but they’re attracted to high Androstenone because males don’t care so much about the social part. At least that’s the case for 2 gays I know; 1 became very curious when I used Summer Ammo and Ammo alike. And if you’re saying that gay men cannot be masculine and are pure beta instead, maybe you should reconsider your thoughts, it’s inappropriate. > Consider mixing Summer Ammo with something else to appear more masculine. I have some questions for you. The women you closed with where they asian or white? I doubt anyone would close successfully with black women (no offense meant) with summer ammo. Secondly, perhaps I shouldn’t of said gay.. Summer ammo does ATTRACT women after all , however, it also is very beta. Its a great DAYTIME fragrance for going out relaxed and all but not for scoring in my mind. And another thing when wear it I act very emotional and sensitive towards a woman and get pushed around a lot by women. In that sense it is very beta.. You are not seen as high status even with p75 in there. When I wear IS AMMO p75 IO IH I don’t DARE get questioned by women.. I act like a man, self effects are WAY more pronounced from the p75, and its easier to score. Other males are more distant. A great dating combination. You won’t get friended with this one. ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/16 "2013-02-16T02:58:39Z")
> [@mobocaster](#): > > **I’ve also found P75 a good one to enhance the sexuality/masculine impact of Summer Ammo (and many other pheros) without the potential negatives of none - Which makes it very usable around younger women** Wait a sec here.. you say it enhances the sexuality aspect. Can you explain how so.. With p75 and summer ammo were you able to escalate to sex? How old were your targets and what were their nationalities? ---
**Author:** ![Mysterion](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mysterion/32/986_2.png) [@Mysterion](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mysterion)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/17 "2013-02-16T03:08:44Z")
Correct, I don’t feel attracted to black women so I never even tried. Closed mostly on white and asian, yes. Was enough to make out with them, but for the bed other mixes are better. Less laid back and more agressive. ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/18 "2013-02-16T03:23:47Z")
> [@Mysterion](#): > > Correct, I don’t feel attracted to black women so I never even tried. > Closed mostly on white and asian, yes. Was enough to make out with them, but for the bed other mixes are better. Less laid back and more agressive. So you didn’t close.. When I say close I mean sex or intercourse. Kissing is not closing.. I don’t question its possible to kiss with summer ammo p75. As for the bed what do your recommend if you think summer ammo p75 is not strong enough? Would you use something entirely different? or steer summer ammo 75 in a different direction.. please explain this particular scenario in more detail! ---
**Author:** ![Mysterion](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mysterion/32/986_2.png) [@Mysterion](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mysterion)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 4:11am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/19 "2013-02-16T04:11:23Z")
> [@dsouza](#): > > So you didn’t close.. When I say close I mean sex or intercourse. Kissing is not closing.. I don’t question its possible to kiss with summer ammo p75. > > As for the bed what do your recommend if you think summer ammo p75 is not strong enough? Would you use something entirely different? or steer summer ammo 75 in a different direction.. please explain this particular scenario in more detail! I don’t like this PUA language but I’ll use it here. Ever heard of #-Close, Kiss-close? Those are closes too. You had to specify and didnt 😉 I don’t use socials in bed usually. But it depends on the woman. Most women react positively to 1 spray Tuth. Sometimes I dont use anything because I naturally am a walking, not very moderated Tuth bomb. I always see if she can take more none than I naturally produce, and if so I use more. Most socials and IG etc are a no go for me in bed. I wash them off before attempting to get her panties wet. When I try to make out I don’t wash the [Summer Ammo](https://a314.com/product/ammo/) off, but usually have P75 applied (2.5 mu). However P75 requires more testing before I can report in as much detail as my P79 report. I don’t use it often, hard to time and sometimes unpredictable. When I attempt to sleep with asian women I apply a low dose of socials like IShine. That is because my natural none production is already so high that it intimidates most asians who are used to lower none. ---
**Author:** ![dsouza](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/dsouza/32/840_2.png) [@dsouza](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/dsouza)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 5:54am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148/20 "2013-02-16T05:54:13Z")
> [@Mysterion](#): > > I don’t like this PUA language but I’ll use it here. > Ever heard of #-Close, Kiss-close? Those are closes too. You had to specify and didnt 😉 > I don’t use socials in bed usually. But it depends on the woman. Most women react positively to 1 spray Tuth. Sometimes I dont use anything because I naturally am a walking, not very moderated Tuth bomb. I always see if she can take more none than I naturally produce, and if so I use more. > Most socials and IG etc are a no go for me in bed. I wash them off before attempting to get her panties wet. > When I try to make out I don’t wash the Summer Ammo off, but usually have P75 applied (2.5 mu). However P75 requires more testing before I can report in as much detail as my P79 report. I don’t use it often, hard to time and sometimes unpredictable. > When I attempt to sleep with asian women I apply a low dose of socials like IShine. That is because my natural none production is already so high that it intimidates most asians who are used to lower none. Do you think Summer AMMO p75 and 1 spray of tuth can get one laid with VERY YOUNG girls (21 or so white)? I am over 35 and my none levels aren’t super high anymore but I’m wondering if women that age like tuth. Also what are your thoughts on IS AMMO p75 IO IH for dating, and adding in a spray of tuth in there too for sex? Will this work with early 20’s white women or is the ammo tuth in there too much? I am blood type O and as I said before over 35. I am east indian. [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/noob-help-summer-ammo-depressing/58148.md?page=2)