# Nuclear Fallout: Building a Pheremone WMD **URL:** \ **Category:** Men's Pheromone Advice & Field Reports\ **Created:** [October 22, 2010, 4:31am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789 "2010-10-22T04:31:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![mobocaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mobocaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mobocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/261 "2014-07-10T16:24:16Z")
> [@monesmadedoit](#): > > Against my damned better judgment… > > After years of CTTM, IH and beta nols threads, none of the posts I’d seen before fit. They didn’t have the Ring of Truth or Eureka I was looking for. Trying to make the puzzle pieces fit with a hammer isn’t the idea. > > Now, I can’t be sure of this, but I’m thinking about the 3rd molecule in IH. And, it’s not one I’ve ever heard mentioned. My tests showed this putative, between 100 and 130 (but **not** 130) was like beta nol. Not P102, either. I need to test the synergy of this with BNOL. And I don’t think it explains A314 fallout by itself. It does explain IH, maybe. And I don’t think other vendors have this. > > As we know, 50/50 alpha and beta nol does not = IH. It doesn’t seem to = fallout like IH. > > Keep in mind, I get some strange results. Stuff I don’t see reported anywhere. I have smelled -enone as urine and vinegar (usually the latter). That is atypical of the [OR7D4](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OR7D4) receptor. I also get some P96 FX not explained by any known neurosteroid in any medical text. Mindblowing, actually. With enough research backing and testing, someone could make more $ off P96 than the crooked felons made of Enzyte. > > And I can say that, since the original founders of Enzyte went to prison for confessed fraud. I’m wondering if its time to revisit P86 in light of this? (IIRC you considered it a good while back?) My reasoning is the rather rapid and very solid bonding/engagement properties I’ve found with MX353/A314 might be an important contributor to this synergy - and none of the other steering molecules in 353 have displayed the same properties, on their own or in mixes. ---
**Author:** ![monesmadedoit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/monesmadedoit/32/325_2.png) [@monesmadedoit](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/monesmadedoit)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/262 "2014-07-11T00:06:10Z")
What putatives can you think of that behave like beta nol but at _no more than_ about **2.5 mcg** per dose, as per IH, with 3 mones? Think about how TUTH is _far different_ from -enone. But IJ is $ and Heat isn’t. Examine was onto something long ago: combining TAL, TAH and TUTH together in one bottle. The TUTH mones _amplify_. ---
**Author:** ![mobocaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mobocaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mobocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 8:49am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/263 "2014-07-11T08:49:45Z")
Ages ago, Jasmin let slip that P79 was used in TUTH and that has quite marked amplification effects (although not always good ones!) at around 2.5mcg. Maybe the TAL/TAH provided the steering/shaping it needs? Those are two I’ve never done a lot with - Although I think I have 30mls of each in the stash! Hmmm…! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![phertest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@phertest](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/phertest)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 4:48am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/264 "2014-07-12T04:48:37Z")
I see a lot of talk about True Love, but I really don’t think it’s a good idea (and yes I’ve tested this) to add into a fallout mix. The few times I have tried it, the women were more affectionate towards me, but it was a bit more difficult to get the clinginess after you’re gone. I suspect it has something to do with the alpha androstenol in it which is a known fallout effect killer. The EST (not meo-est) might also slightly reduce your status and make you a cuddle bear if you’re not careful so take it easy on the trigger guys 😃 Also, I think it’s important to note that the age range this mix works well on is about 25+ and mature younger girls. However, younger girls who are out to mingle cause they’re single will most likely take you way too seriously. Too seriously to even bother trying to get to know you - in my experience anyway. Will be experimenting more with this mix in the coming weeks. ---
**Author:** ![monesmadedoit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/monesmadedoit/32/325_2.png) [@monesmadedoit](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/monesmadedoit)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/265 "2014-07-13T17:43:17Z")
As noted in a post of mine in Paradox’s journal, a journal article this year pretty decisively pointed to EST as projecting a homosexual signature. I can’t see any role for it except as one would use TAL/TAH: as very minor buffering components. However, looking at the serotonin/obsession hypothesis as to “crush” effects, I think this explains A1. Little effect on gay women or men, crushy effect on straight women, depression in men. The word is A1 doesn’t activate brain scans for gays the same as straights. I designed a mix that would be a fire-breathing sort of A314. It was designed to intimidate the f’ck out of men (but not girls) without -enone, [P75](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p75/) or P80. Not much erone. Maybe 7.5 mcg. The same amplifiers that made the -erone so wicked could make the crush mones more intense. ---
**Author:** ![paradox1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/paradox1/32/1196_2.png) [@paradox1](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/paradox1)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 1:38pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/266 "2014-07-14T13:38:11Z")
I would never use TAL, TAF OR TAH in any amount in any male formula. If you feel the need to use a womans scent use it in the Pico ot Tico range. Smelling like a woman kills the mix. However if you want to be in the LJBF zone forever you can use them. Even the smallest amount of TAL, TAF OR TAH says “woman”. Just my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![lwatkins](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lwatkins/32/472_2.png) [@lwatkins](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/lwatkins)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/267 "2014-07-14T14:42:34Z")
a little TAL - ladies want to party too much TAL - duck and cover. ---
**Author:** ![monesmadedoit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/monesmadedoit/32/325_2.png) [@monesmadedoit](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/monesmadedoit)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/268 "2014-07-14T15:23:45Z")
> [@paradox1](#): > > I would never use TAL, TAF OR TAH in any amount in any male formula. If you feel the need to use a womans scent use it in the Pico ot Tico range. > > Smelling like a woman kills the mix. However if you want to be in the LJBF zone forever you can use them. > > Even the smallest amount of TAL, TAF OR TAH says “woman”. Just my opinion. You see TAF as female? I’d be thinking progestagen with a little this and that on the A and D ring. The truly female mones are aromatic at 1,3,5. I haven’t a danged clue on TAH, but it wouldn’t surprise me to be like EST. TAL, I actually think it might not be a estrogen. It just has that effect on girls. That said, every man has small amounts of estradiol and metabolites, just as women have androgens. **Essential** for normal reproduction. Men will never have pregnancy-related mones, to my knowledge. And TAH acts that way, whether 'tis or 'tisn’t. I agree on the dosing concept pretty much. [Estradiol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estradiol#Male_reproduction) Despite the fact that Justin Bieb and the usual metrosexuals hardly have a bad-ass Marine look, I can’t ignore that several thousand bare legal chicks would f’ck his brains out. Rumor has always been many of the male porn models for women are gay or leaning. Since we are adding mones to what is normal, science suggests ratios should be maintained. Estrogens are though of as beautifiers. Whether good or not, I can’t say. It should be we’d all just wear IJ and nothing else, whack our chosen love and drag her to the cave. Doesn’t seem to work. If it did, the only products would be NPA and IJ and that’d be it. This chart isn’t as complex as those that show metabolites. As you increase a high-androgen signature with **artificial** 19-carbon metabolites (erone and -enone derivatives), I would expect normal aromatase and reductase pathways to endure. [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Steroidogenesis.svg](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Steroidogenesis.svg) Anyway, I was reading Mad Tater’s old journal. I will reboot. Excellent points on what I call the homeopathy feedback concept. The male and female body interpret sprayed mones as sweat of males or females on our skin and respond with endocrine feedback. My approach with most vendors is this: “Hey vendor, since the VNO has been mostly tossed out since 2010, what ligand binding sites in the nose cause phero effects? Don’t know? Neither do I. Neither does science. Which means we are all equally making sh’t up as we go along.” You find me a vendor with hard, published science on the exact receptors that -enone and erone bind to in the nose **that affect behavior** , I will give him a good look. Not him, his website. Or her. But if they can give you specific names of olfactory GABA units and the genes that express them, as well as their loci, I will be impressed. The VNO was the only decent working hypothesis, and it’s no good. Most pheros aren’t amines, so amine receptors don’t fit either. Since 2005, when this board started, we’re literally at square 1. Serotonin, adrenaline, etc. are amines. Amines have known nasal binding sites. Most all mones don’t have nitrogen. Amines do. Rodents pee randomly everywhere and walk on all fours, smelling pee trails. They have VNO’s. And the cartoon BS phero sites are still shilling rat VNO, **like it’s a thing**. [Vomeronasal organ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vomeronasal_organ#Humans) ---
**Author:** ![paradox1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/paradox1/32/1196_2.png) [@paradox1](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/paradox1)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/269 "2014-07-14T15:57:33Z")
> [@lwatkins](#): > > a little TAL - ladies want to party Yes, women like to dance and party with other women. Wear a little TAL and you become a little female, girly. Ever see women dancing together. With TAL one of them is you. ---
**Author:** ![paradox1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/paradox1/32/1196_2.png) [@paradox1](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/paradox1)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/270 "2014-07-14T16:08:46Z")
> [@monesmadedoit](#): > > You see TAF as female? I’d be thinking progestagen with a little this and that on the A and D ring. The truly female mones are aromatic at 1,3,5. I haven’t a danged clue on TAH, but it wouldn’t surprise me to be like EST. TAL, I actually think it might not be a estrogen. It just has that effect on girls. That said, every man has small amounts of estradiol and metabolites, just as women have androgens. **Essential** for normal reproduction. Men will never have pregnancy-related mones, to my knowledge. And TAH acts that way, whether 'tis or 'tisn’t. I agree on the dosing concept pretty much. I think some time ago Jasmine revealed that TAH, TAL and TAF were female hormones. I may have asked her about them in a PM. You might also find Tisha commenting about the feminine nature of TAH, TAL and TAF. Actually, I don’t care who wears it. I could spray on some [MX297](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/mx297/) and have great fun with the girls but none of them would want to sleep with me. Not for my lack of trying but because I would smell like a woman. Many noobs and vendors believe “Just a little is ok, it softens the mix” to that I say BS. To those people I say add some, get laid and prove me wrong. I haven’t been proven wrong in 4 years here. ---
**Author:** ![mobocaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mobocaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mobocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/271 "2014-07-14T16:29:01Z")
> [@paradox1](#): > > Many noobs and vendors believe “Just a little is ok, it softens the mix” to that I say BS. To those people I say add some, get laid and prove me wrong. I haven’t been proven wrong in 4 years here. However, fallout mixes are a lot more than a just getting laid mix - In fact many of the core combos don’t include and sexuals at all and are aimed at creating a greater degree of emotional engagement/closeness or professional responses instead of a pure raw sexual response. To that end a little “softening” and something that suggests physical/emotional ambivalence is sometimes useful. I know it goes against the grain for many guys but IME a hell of a lot of women can be very turned-on by a little bit of sexual ambivalence in a man - although same as with using cops, I’d tend not to regard them as much more than ONS/non-serious material due to the ball of issues that seem be part and parcel of dealing with these gals. And if TAL or TAH, are the key to keeping the sometimes difficult nature of P79 on the good side of things, then it might be worth it - I’ve pretty-much given-up on P79 because of its being a bit of a hand grenade in sexual/masculine mixes. In fact, if you just want to fuck, a fallout mix is the very last thing I’d suggest, unless you are balls-deep with the woman to begin with and want to have her stick around! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![monesmadedoit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/monesmadedoit/32/325_2.png) [@monesmadedoit](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/monesmadedoit)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/272 "2014-07-14T16:44:32Z")
Well, I’m never one to stubbornly stick to something, unless I have a very good reason. You might lay out your case for what causes fallout and why. What to use and what not to use. What **is** it? What goes on in the brain? How are the mones affecting behavior? What mones work? If they work, why aren’t they adopted by popular acclaim to the **exclusion** of everything else? Example: Motorola invented two-way radio. Nokia, Qualcomm and Motorola are also-rans. Apple and Samsung dominate. The public decided. I read as many reviews as possible. They confuse me. I read reports from PUA. I have seen what some look like. Women I know, between 5 and 9 in looks, **will not** go for some of these guys. In my opinion, they’ve been conning the phero world for years now. Let’s throw out TAF, TAH, TAL and EST. Break down the -enone buffers. A1, TAC, etc. Give me your fallout combo with a rationale. If you have some science for it, OK. Either way. There ar over 400 olfactory genes. HIGHLY unlikely any two people here are identical. What works for some will fail for others. A1 depression is quite real even for masculine guys. The VA is stacked with PTSD cases. I will listen to any credible ideas. Case in point: I have never seen a personal report **written by a woman** that talks about status when she smells a guy wearing erone products. Status may be a red herring. A guy wearing a jacket and tie, his mones are suppressed under three layers of clothing. But the clothes might still come off later. The only think I cannot do is endorse anecdotes only as proof. That would be junk science. However, I will test any mix a user puts forward, if the evidence is strong. I am a complete mone whore in that respect. I am on a quest for hard facts that can be repeated time and again by at least 6-7 in 10 people…a statistical majority in a sample of 100+. Forgive my skepticism. _Maybe 500K men bought Enzyte_. It was and end-to-end fraud. **Every medical report was faked**. Men are tricked and duped daily in, around, about and within sex. ---
**Author:** ![monesmadedoit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/monesmadedoit/32/325_2.png) [@monesmadedoit](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/monesmadedoit)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/273 "2014-07-14T16:52:44Z")
> [@mobocaster](#): > > In fact, if you just want to fuck, a fallout mix is the very last thing I’d suggest, unless you are balls-deep with the woman to begin with and want to have her stick around! 🙂 10 mcg of pure -enone will work. If you are ready for high rejection. I am looking for answers to questions such as **why beta nol is different from IH**? It takes discipline to find answers. But the rewards are potentially great. Know this: If another company could copy IH, they would. Has anyone an **exact** copy? Can any man, woman, child or beast…any human on this board give me a formula that will duplicate it to the test of 75 out of 100 people? Until we find these answers, we don’t know what makes fallout formulas. Now, Androtics does. I’m even leaning away from TAF toward a P1XX molecule. I’d like to see them make it and and cheaply, if possible. Really though, aften 10 years, someone should already have these ideas? Yes? Over 100’s of years of combined experience. Let’s hear them. If you make your case, I will test it. 😃 And we will all get laid happily ever after. ---
**Author:** ![paradox1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/paradox1/32/1196_2.png) [@paradox1](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/paradox1)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/274 "2014-07-14T17:42:30Z")
> [@monesmadedoit](#): > > Forgive my skepticism. _Maybe 500K men bought Enzyte_. It was and end-to-end fraud. **Every medical report was faked**. Men are tricked and duped daily in, around, about and within sex. So true. Even the so-called experts have much to learn. We are all involved in this brand new science. It doesn’t help that Androtics uses code names for it’s molecules. What is [P74](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p74/), TAH, TAL and TAF? No one but Androtics knows. Use them, experiment with them and enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![mobocaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mobocaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mobocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/275 "2014-07-14T19:07:24Z")
> [@monesmadedoit](#): > > 10 mcg of pure -enone will work. If you are ready for high rejection. I am looking for answers to questions such as **why beta nol is different from IH**? It takes discipline to find answers. But the rewards are potentially great. Know this: If another company could copy IH, they would. Has anyone an **exact** copy? Can any man, woman, child or beast…any human on this board give me a formula that will duplicate it to the test of 75 out of 100 people? Until we find these answers, we don’t know what makes fallout formulas. Now, Androtics does. I’m even leaning away from TAF toward a P1XX molecule. I’d like to see them make it and and cheaply, if possible. > > Really though, aften 10 years, someone should already have these ideas? Yes? Over 100’s of years of combined experience. Let’s hear them. If you make your case, I will test it. 😃 And we will all get laid happily ever after. Have you tried steering Betanol with P114? Its got some similar/complementary properties but at a moderate dose - these may carry-over when used at steering levels? ---
**Author:** ![monesmadedoit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/monesmadedoit/32/325_2.png) [@monesmadedoit](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/monesmadedoit)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/276 "2014-07-14T19:30:26Z")
Been studying P114. Looked for a pattern in reports. Didn’t find. Usually means my results will be way off from others. Takes me sometimes months to grasp something, so simply ordering 10 TOGO’s at once doesn’t work. Have to prioritize. ---
**Author:** ![mobocaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mobocaster](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/mobocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/277 "2014-07-14T19:34:47Z")
I know - I’ve still to work through many of the 100s but that one has caught my interest before - esp alongside A314 but with an established fallout. It didn’t lessen her response any and she became unusually pliant to me over a long period. I was also able to drop my overall None dose quite a bit whilst using it - which may indicate a secondary intensifying property? Still got some non-AD Betanol, so will give that a try. There isn’t a great deal out there about P114 either but its certainly worth a look - I also noted that it vanished for a good long while, just around the same time as IH went into drought/got pricey. Interesting coincidence? ---
**Author:** ![lwatkins](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/lwatkins/32/472_2.png) [@lwatkins](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/lwatkins)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/278 "2014-07-15T14:27:36Z")
I think that stimulation of multiple cranial nerves that have projections into the medulla would be a target. I would look for, for example both pupil dilation (P96 .. something romance-feeling) as well as nostril flaring (P75), and other assorted combinations of CN stimulation in a combo. Lacrimation (TAL) would seem to be important, as this is also seemingly by CN stimulation. With P96 I see it all - “strong internal emotions, such as sorrow, elation, awe or pleasure. Laughing or yawning” The P75 gives facial ticks with vigilance. there is awe and it’s attention-getting. [P74](https://a314.com/product/p74/) to me gives the impression that whatever is going on is positive, though it’s not the only P that does that… The CN projections into the medulla should be resulting in the interpretation of these signals as pleasurable. I would think that rewiring to create a reward circuit would require activation of some adrenaline spike or androgenic response to get that norepinephrine spike in the CNS. eNone seems to give the fight / flight response. I don’t know if inducing a stress response (vigilance) might be sufficient, or at what level. Certainly it’s worth looking at the roll of positive allosteric modulators of the GABAA receptor my short list: eRONE eNone TAL P75 TAF P96 a few others I’m looking at.. ---
**Author:** ![vanadium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c4cdca/32.png) [@vanadium](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/vanadium)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2014, 5:46am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/279 "2014-07-26T05:46:17Z")
> [@lwatkins](#): > > Certainly it’s worth looking at the roll of positive allosteric modulators of the GABAA receptor Please elaborate. In my day, the research had GABA being a strong inhibitory neurotransmitter. Though inhibitory pathways can indirectly cause apparent stimulation of other pathways, that’s not how I see GABA playing out with pheros. I could be wrong. I’m curious about your reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![monesmadedoit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/monesmadedoit/32/325_2.png) [@monesmadedoit](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/monesmadedoit)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789/280 "2014-07-27T16:13:57Z")
There don’t seem to be any GABA receptors expressed in olfactory epithelium anterior to the skull or any functional VNO. But the neurosteroid allosterics are active by injection. We know this of -erone. And erone does seem to act a bit this way as a spray. With the repudiation of the VNO, we have in erone and others ligands without known nasal receptors. Kohl has hinted erone is processed through Main Olfactory receptors, as would be baked bread or cupcakes. Cupcakes don’t induce sexual urges. I hope he will query LadyS on her findings as a peer. I agree with him that I can’t find a good bio-model for how -enone works, but the data is there. Empirical observations from discriminating observers with medical training cannot be cavalierly dismissed. This was at 250 nanograms, 1/10th a typical male dose. We are kind of more in the dark with mones than 2004. Without a VNO, you have ligands with no receptors: keys with no locks. [Previous page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789.md?page=13) [Next page](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/nuclear-fallout-building-a-pheremone-wmd/42789.md?page=15)