# Oxytocin: is there any evidence it acts as a pheromone rather than a hormone? **URL:** \ **Category:** Pheromone Theory & Molecules\ **Created:** [January 4, 2007, 1:47pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/oxytocin-is-there-any-evidence-it-acts-as-a-pheromone-rather-than-a-hormone/1414 "2007-01-04T13:47:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![deletedphthalo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@deletedphthalo](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/deletedphthalo)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 1:47pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/oxytocin-is-there-any-evidence-it-acts-as-a-pheromone-rather-than-a-hormone/1414/1 "2007-01-04T13:47:38Z")
I’ve heard that oxytocin has been identified as a hormone and neurotransmitter involved in social bonding/recognition and trust, and I understand that it’s now used in some perfumes like Liquid Trust. However, I haven’t heard any evidence that it acts as a [pheromone](https://pheromonelabs.com/) (i.e. diffuses outside the body and is detected by olfactory receptors). In fact, does anyone even know if this stuff is volatile enough to diffuse off the skin after being sprayed on? What’s more, in the study I heard of, subjects were given a nasal spray of oxytocin which was absorbed into the bloodstream via the nasal lining and so had a hormonal effect on them - surely you’d need massive quantities of the stuff in the air for a significant amount to be effective like this? Olfactory detection is incredibly sensitive compared to a dose to the bloodstream. Using oxytocin like this sounds a bit like rubbing Valium behind your ears in the hope that it’ll mellow out the people sitting around you. So in light of all that, does anyone have any evidence that this stuff can work at a distance? ---
**Author:** ![thr3shold](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/thr3shold/32/2316_2.png) [@thr3shold](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/thr3shold)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2007, 7:22pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/oxytocin-is-there-any-evidence-it-acts-as-a-pheromone-rather-than-a-hormone/1414/2 "2007-01-15T19:22:03Z")
This is exactly why Michael wanted a working bottle of Liquid Trust. It doesn’t sound like it would do much if anything, but there have been reports of some good results which is why he wanted to see first hand. ---
**Author:** ![Gegogi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/gegogi/32/1536_2.png) [@Gegogi](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Gegogi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 9:04am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/oxytocin-is-there-any-evidence-it-acts-as-a-pheromone-rather-than-a-hormone/1414/3 "2007-01-17T09:04:04Z")
I’ve gone most of the way through a bottle of Liquid Trust. The bottle is cute and the spray head delivers an even little zap of goodies. Too bad the effects are so subtle I didn’t notice jack diddle. I suspect you’ll need to increase the dose considerably and spray it directly up your subject’s nose… Anywho, I’ll use the nice bottle/atomizer to mix up a batch of 'none, A-1 and Issey Miyake. Incidentally, LT ain’t even remotely a perfume. It is scentless (well it stinks slightly of bug spray). ---
**Author:** ![chirimoya](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/chirimoya/32/1538_2.png) [@chirimoya](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/chirimoya)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2007, 4:30pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/oxytocin-is-there-any-evidence-it-acts-as-a-pheromone-rather-than-a-hormone/1414/4 "2007-02-23T16:30:39Z")
I found an article by National Institutes of Mental Health on oxytocin and trust. [Link here](http://www.nimh.nih.gov/press/oxytocin_amygdala.cfm). But according to this post, it seems oxytocin applied externally wouldn’t have much effect? How does it work after sex/during childbirth then if it’s not “in the air”? ---
**Author:** ![Bunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Bunny](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Bunny)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2007, 5:40pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/oxytocin-is-there-any-evidence-it-acts-as-a-pheromone-rather-than-a-hormone/1414/5 "2007-02-23T17:40:01Z")
I love LT, and use it regularly. It’s nowhere near as intensely intimate and doesn’t cause the same gut-spilling and bonding, as [Instant Honesty](https://a314.com/product/instant-honesty/), but definitely does a fair bit. > [@oxytocin spray and fear](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/oxytocin-spray-and-fear/76): > > [http://www.corante.com/brainwaves/archives/2005/12/29/a\_love\_spray\_for\_the\_fearful.php](http://www.corante.com/brainwaves/archives/2005/12/29/a_love_spray_for_the_fearful.php) The analysis of love has moved from the embrace of poets into the arms of science. A recent series of precise studies reveal some of the key brain areas and molecules, like oxytocin, involved in the ability to love and bond with others, according to December’s [Brain Briefings](http://web.sfn.org/content/Publications/BrainBriefings/love_andthe_brain.html). This research creates a better understanding of how the brain controls love and bonding, which is critical for species survival. In ad… That was from summer of last year. Ail 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jasmin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/jasmin/32/287_2.png) [@Jasmin](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Jasmin)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2007, 12:23am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/oxytocin-is-there-any-evidence-it-acts-as-a-pheromone-rather-than-a-hormone/1414/6 "2007-02-24T00:23:05Z")
> [@phthalo](#): > > I’ve heard that oxytocin has been identified as a hormone and neurotransmitter involved in social bonding/recognition and trust, and I understand that it’s now used in some perfumes like Liquid Trust. > > However, I haven’t heard any evidence that it acts as a pheromone (i.e. diffuses outside the body and is detected by olfactory receptors). In fact, does anyone even know if this stuff is volatile enough to diffuse off the skin after being sprayed on? > > What’s more, in the study I heard of, subjects were given a nasal spray of oxytocin which was absorbed into the bloodstream via the nasal lining and so had a hormonal effect on them - surely you’d need massive quantities of the stuff in the air for a significant amount to be effective like this? Olfactory detection is incredibly sensitive compared to a dose to the bloodstream. Using oxytocin like this sounds a bit like rubbing Valium behind your ears in the hope that it’ll mellow out the people sitting around you. > > So in light of all that, does anyone have any evidence that this stuff can work at a distance? I did a talk on [pheromones](https://pheromonelabs.com/) not too long ago, and someone in the audience asked about oxytocin, actually. I basically made an invisible “line” of it on the podium, and proceeded to “snort” it all in, and then I told them “_That’s_ what you have to do to get an effect with oxytocin, since it’s a molecule too heavy to suspend well in perfume…” It got a good laugh from the audience. 😃 We’ve been messing around with it behind the scenes here, but I’m not sure if we’re likely to pursue it any time too soon. ---
**Author:** ![P-moner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d07c76/32.png) [@P-moner](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/P-moner)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2007, 10:09pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/oxytocin-is-there-any-evidence-it-acts-as-a-pheromone-rather-than-a-hormone/1414/7 "2007-04-29T22:09:05Z")
> [@chirimoya](#): > > But according to this post, it seems oxytocin applied externally wouldn’t have much effect? How does it work after sex/during childbirth then if it’s not “in the air”? I believe it is released by the body internally. Therefore you feel the effects of the **your own** oxytocin from your body, not your partner’s. Injection or nasal spray are the only ways I know to get it into someone else, but I don’t think they are going to trust you very much after poking them or shoving things up their nose.😮 ---
**Author:** ![daniboybicep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b19c9b/32.png) [@daniboybicep](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/daniboybicep)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2007, 8:52pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/oxytocin-is-there-any-evidence-it-acts-as-a-pheromone-rather-than-a-hormone/1414/8 "2007-05-07T20:52:29Z")
Im currently studying histology and from what I’ve learned… oxytocin is secreted by the hypophysis, when triggered by the “milk-ejection reflex”… meaning that alot of this hormone is produced during nursing… oxytocin causes contraction of muscle around the glandular tissue of the breast causing milk ejection… so if your wearing a cologne with oxytocin… you should be looking for IOI’s in form of “wet nipples”… 🆒 then you know it worked! ---
**Author:** ![smoothplayer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@smoothplayer](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/smoothplayer)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 11:50pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/oxytocin-is-there-any-evidence-it-acts-as-a-pheromone-rather-than-a-hormone/1414/9 "2007-05-17T23:50:22Z")
I read somewhere that oxytocin is released after orgasm during sex. ---
**Author:** ![Mtnjim](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mtnjim/32/2010_2.png) [@Mtnjim](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mtnjim)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 11:55pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/oxytocin-is-there-any-evidence-it-acts-as-a-pheromone-rather-than-a-hormone/1414/10 "2007-05-17T23:55:51Z")
When LT was first released I expressed some doubt over on the LS forums. All of the research I could find indicated that oxytocin is very unstable (meaning only hours) once placed in solution, and that it deteriorated even faster if not refrigerated.😮 ---
**Author:** ![bronzie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@bronzie](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bronzie)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2007, 12:12am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/oxytocin-is-there-any-evidence-it-acts-as-a-pheromone-rather-than-a-hormone/1414/11 "2007-05-18T00:12:20Z")
mjim, that is the reason why its ineffective, i remember your posts regarding this product, ive gone through most of my bottle with little effect, like gegogi said, the effects are very subtle to nothing… a friend of mine left his bottle of LT in his car on a hot day, when he came back a few hrs later the whole contents had evaporated, the stuff is pretty much alcohol and very volitile ---
**Author:** ![bosshank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@bosshank](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bosshank)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 2:21am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/oxytocin-is-there-any-evidence-it-acts-as-a-pheromone-rather-than-a-hormone/1414/12 "2007-05-25T02:21:52Z")
I just read an article - I’ll try to find it - that stated that people were better able to read facial expressions in others after inhaling oxytocin. I too have a couple bottles of LT but never seemed to get any reactions from it. And it does have a light “bug spray” or maybe even “mothball scent”. Got some on a jacket by mistake and a male friend even commented on the light scent. I said I noticed it too and blamed it on the dry cleaners. ---
**Author:** ![EnchantedApril](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/enchantedapril/32/2385_2.png) [@EnchantedApril](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/EnchantedApril)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2007, 5:06pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/oxytocin-is-there-any-evidence-it-acts-as-a-pheromone-rather-than-a-hormone/1414/13 "2007-05-26T17:06:25Z")
Intriguing to find oxytocin being talked about here. I first read about it in the book by Patricia Allen, PhD, Getting to I Do, and she sort of forewarns women about being careful about with whom when we are dating we have sex with because women exude more oxytocin then men, and it causes SEXUAL bonding for us. Also, apparently we need more of oxytocin to orgasm. Something like that. So, the author was teasing the readers that frankly with good sex we can bond with men who we might not really be compatible with for a relationship all because of oxytocin euphoria. Giggles. All our faults glided over by oxytocin! I think we’ve all been there a little in some ways, haven’t we, over good sex! lol! I hadn’t really thought of it for phero experimenting. I’ll have to read up on it more to see what attributes it has, what affects it creates. I’m already orchestrating a use of several mones at a time to create a melange of affects: sexual attraction, confidence, charisma, rapport, etc. I don’t know if I could layer 1 more on top! Too funny, n’est pas? All the best, April ---
**Author:** ![LaurieNY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bbce88/32.png) [@LaurieNY](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/LaurieNY)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2007, 12:06am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/oxytocin-is-there-any-evidence-it-acts-as-a-pheromone-rather-than-a-hormone/1414/14 "2007-05-27T00:06:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Also, apparently we need more of oxytocin to orgasm. _Now_ I have a reason to buy Liquid Trust. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![bosshank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@bosshank](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/bosshank)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 7:50pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/oxytocin-is-there-any-evidence-it-acts-as-a-pheromone-rather-than-a-hormone/1414/15 "2007-05-31T19:50:21Z")
Hmmmm - interesting about the sexual bonding - when you add-in other studies - say women being attracted to men with more “masculine” features when they are ovulating vs. men with more “gentle” features towards the end of their cycles. Maybe a very useful feature from a guy’s perspective - maybe help her along and then stick around afterwards. Careful about LT - it does have a funky chemical smell. And any effects do seem to be VERY subtle - as opposed to the heavy talking with [Instant Honesty](https://a314.com/product/instant-honesty/). ---
**Author:** ![Osiris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/839c29/32.png) [@Osiris](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Osiris)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 8:31am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/oxytocin-is-there-any-evidence-it-acts-as-a-pheromone-rather-than-a-hormone/1414/16 "2007-06-02T08:31:46Z")
I’m new to this site, but I recently placed an order by phone and was just talking with Jasmin about the need to get a good snort of oxytocin in order for it to be really effective. That said, hormones and neurotransmitters seem to be the bottom-line essentials in attraction or trust. If you could trigger them perfectly through chemical means, you could negate the necessity for any other cues such as confidence, looks, wittiness, wealth, fashion sense, friendly mannerisms, intelligence and maturity, since those cues only lead to the chemicals in the end anyway, and the feelings are the true goal, addictive drugs that give the sense that all those desired components of the relationship are in place and all is right with the world. Having “good game” is nothing more than inducing the release of those same attraction chemicals through a set of cues. Remember, the feelings constitute the attraction, and the attraction is the relationship, at least initially. If somebody feels attraction to you, they will desire to act on it, and they will think it’s their choice, even though it’s never their choice. They still have free will, so better judgment may override the impulse to hit the sheets right away, but they will not be able to escape the attraction. So (if you’re worried about being ethical) if the feelings are present, any actions will be consensual, so chemical attraction is no more unethical than chatting somebody up or acting smooth and confident. Attraction is not their choice in those scenarios either. You either create it in them or you don’t. The flow chart for the chemicals of attraction (the ones we know about) looks something like this: First is an increase in phenylethylamine (PEA), followed rapidly by increased norepinephrine and free dopamine and decreased serotonin. All this gives the feelings of euphoria and excitement associated with attraction. What is less understood but surely occurs during close proximity is the involvement of subtle olfactory signals, one of which involves our good friends, the [sex pheromones](https://a314.com/product-category/sensual-pheromones/), and another which involves human lymphocyte antigen (HLA). The next step in solidifying attraction is a release of oxytocin and endorphins. Oxytocin, a “neurohormone” of sorts, in particular is responsible for a peaceful and joyous feeling of “bonding.” The last step in sealing a monogamous relationship (if you want that) involves vasopressin. Trigger those in that order and in the right concentrations in the correct areas of the brain at just the right times, and you’ve got the basic recipe for a love potion. Alas, our current ability to make a magic potion with these ingredients is similar to tossing all the components of a computer in a box, shaking the box for a minute or so and hoping a computer will come out. But there could be hope yet for stuff like this if people keep testing out various combinations. If you did perfect a “love potion,” the next trick would be getting the object of your desire to associate those chemical feelings of attraction with you and not merely with the wonderful setting or some food or drink or that good-looking person across the room. So we’re still going to need some social skills, to develop as much game as we can. This of course is bad news for the social retards who physically resemble Shemp Howard on their best day, the Phantom of the Opera on an average day and Pickman’s model on some memorably bad days. So, as I was telling Jasmin, I’m required - I mean, uhhh, those poor souls are required - to use technology to cheat nature.