# Perspectives on Last Minute Resistance (LMR) **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [July 8, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/perspectives-on-last-minute-resistance-lmr/39895 "2010-07-08T18:47:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![savoy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/savoy/32/2369_2.png) [@savoy](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/savoy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/perspectives-on-last-minute-resistance-lmr/39895/1 "2010-07-08T18:47:01Z")
Have you ever had the feeling that you did everything right with a woman, but when you’re in bed, she says no? Of course you have. We all have. It can be intensely frustrating. The good news is that it’s avoidable. You can remove last minute resistance (LMR) from your life. Not through any trickery and not by “scamming” a woman, but simply by understanding what it is that causes last minute resistance, and helping her get past it. As usual, to really understand this topic, we need to take a step back and make sure we are all on the same page. LMR occurs when a woman says no to sexual touching when you’re somewhere where it would be reasonable to have success and you’re already attracted to each other. Saying no to sexual touching can occur anywhere from touching her breasts over her clothes to putting a condom on. It’s all LMR, and it’s triggered by her emotional state and comfort level with you. Some women don’t feel LMR, but most do. It’s not a fun feeling for her either - she gets intensely nervous and uncomfortable with a knot in her stomach. Biologically, by having sex with you, or doing things that she knows will lead to sex, she is taking a big bet on you. In modern society, sex usually doesn’t lead to pregnancy, but her emotional instincts were designed thousands of years ago. That’s why comfort is so important to a woman before sex. For men, it can be deeply frustrating. You usually won’t have these same emotions about sex, and hers can be difficult to relate to. An easy analogy for this is how women often don’t understand how it can be tough for a man to approach a woman whom he doesn’t know. “Just go talk to her,” she says. Or “be yourself.” She doesn’t understand the pit in most men’s stomachs that comes in when a man begins the process and prepares to approach a woman he doesn’t know. Similarly, we don’t intuitively understand the feeling women have at the end of the process. What are we supposed to do? Some specific tips and techniques that some Love Systems instructors have taught and found useful include persistence, arousal, minimizing physical state breaks, and the “little things that work.” **Be persistent -** If she says no or indicates that she is uncomfortable, you need to stop what you are doing. Any deviation from that is immoral and illegal. However, you can certainly go back one step and then try again later. If she won’t let you remove her top, go back to kissing her for a few minutes, and try again later. The interesting thing about female psychology is that women are often spectators in their own seduction. It’s your job to keep escalating. **Use arousal -** If you can arouse her enough, she will want to sleep with you. She knows this, and often won’t let you do a lot of things that would arouse her (like touching her genitals). That’s why LMR can occur way before sex is an actual possibility. However, you can often get away with kissing her and being on top of her. If you rub against her in that position (“dry humping”) she will often be receptive, especially if you are also kissing her neck or ears. **Minimize physical state breaks -** A physical state break is where you go from doing one sort of activity to another in a sharp, not gradual, way. Women get through LMR by gradually moving from one activity to another without ever having to stop and think “should I have sex?” Many women like to be seduced, but not to have to feel responsible for sex happening. So when you move her to your bedroom, or you take off her clothes, it gets her thinking about how far she wants things to go, rather than enjoying the slow buildup. Minimize this by moving to the bedroom early or not at all. Removing her pants should be done gradually, and while focusing on other activities like kissing her. **Know the little things that work -** These don’t fall into a category, but they’re useful. If she says “we shouldn’t be doing this” agree with her, “Yes, we shouldn’t.” If she repeats that you shouldn’t, then you have to stop and regroup, but often she won’t. Never take her underwear off by itself. Either take it off when her pants come off (at the same time), or just move it to the side. -NS P.S. I’d love to hear some honest thoughts from women on this one. ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/perspectives-on-last-minute-resistance-lmr/39895/2 "2010-07-09T02:36:11Z")
> [@](#): > > P.S. I’d love to hear some honest thoughts from women on this one. I really had to think on this one. I couldnt at first place my finger on what was bugging me but then it hit me. You mentioned more then once the women “says no”. I am taking that literally. > [@](#): > > Of course you have. We all have. It can be intensely frustrating. The good news is that it’s avoidable. You can remove last minute resistance (LMR) from your life. **Not through any trickery** and not by “scamming” a woman, but **simply by understanding what it is that causes last minute resistance** , and helping her get past it. As usual, to really understand this topic, we need to take a step back and make sure we are all on the same page. > [@](#): > > Saying no to sexual touching can occur anywhere from touching her breasts over her clothes to putting a condom on. It’s all LMR, and it’s **triggered by her emotional state and comfort level** with you. Lets call a duck a duck. Below you listed some tricks to help you get past LMR. Everything you listed was by definition “trickery”. If you actually stopped to try to understand why she is saying no and realized she was not comfortable with it and her emotional state was not congruent with wanting to have sex why would you continue ? No means No whether that No is because she feels scared, uncomfortable, aroused, is in love with you, has butterflies in her stomach or any other emotion under the sun. When someone offers you cake and you say no… even if the baker is seducing you with that cakes sweet aroma. Is arousing your taste buds… Making you imagine just how delicious and decadent it will taste… Even if you feel like eating that cake but you know you will regret it later…NO means NO. If the baker persists, by continuing to hold that cake under your nose or disguising the cake as something else. NO is still NO. The baker never considers their may be a good reason you dont want the cake even though you showed signs of wanting it. He doesn’t care if your diabetic or on a diet. He will somehow manipulate you into eating that cake. NO still means NO. Even when you want something. None of the tricks you listed address why she is saying no. They are designed to skirt your way around the subject, to manipulate her into doing something you want her to do despite whether she feels good about it or not. To distract her from paying attention to how she really feels long enough for you to get what you want. Now dont get me wrong. I am not saying that the tricks you listed are not good and they wont work. In fact I think they are pretty darn good and can work and are basic PUA techniques. What I am objecting to is listing them on the pretense that you actually care or are stopping to understand how the women your targeting feels. You should call it manipulation systems not Love systems because Love has nothing to do with it. So to address your question… > [@](#): > > Have you ever had the feeling that you did everything right with a woman, but when you’re in bed, she says no? > [@](#): > > What are we supposed to do? You stop because NO means NO, No matter what the reason. Yes it is your job to make her feel comfortable safe secure and respected. It may be frustrating to wait. It may not seem fair. But thats the way it is. > [@](#): > > An easy analogy for this is how women often don’t understand how it can be tough for a man to approach a woman whom he doesn’t know. “Just go talk to her,” she says. Or “be yourself.” She doesn’t understand the pit in most men’s stomachs that comes in when a man begins the process and prepares to approach a woman he doesn’t know I Love analogies. Lets try this one on for size… Suppose your dating a girl you like but your not sure if your that into her. You enjoy her company and are contented with the way things are going between you just dating. She however wants to get married to you. You say no. She says…“oh ok” backs off on the subject for a few minutes then persists with pestering you again. She then uses her ability to make you aroused to manipulate you into seeing things her way. Perhaps when she is busy arousing you, you will change how you feel or at least forget your feelings for a while. While your aroused she minimizes your ability to rationally think by rapidly pushing you though the motions of your upcoming nuptials, Never allowing you to stop and think “should I get married” until you find your self standing on the alter looking at her and saying. “We shouldn’t be doing this” to which she replies, “Your right we shouldn’t be doing this” while she slips the ring on your finger, says I do and the pastor say “You may kiss the bride”. Actually it happens to men all the time and it sucks. It sucks just as much if not more when a guy uses those same tactics to manipulate you into having sex. So again lets call a duck a duck and not pretend your attempting to understand what we feel and you care about it. If you did you would stop at NO. It shows a total lack of regard for that persons thoughts and feelings. Perhaps thats the perfect reason to say no. There ya go, you asked for a woman’s perspective and thats mine. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![ami81](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ccd318/32.png) [@ami81](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ami81)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/perspectives-on-last-minute-resistance-lmr/39895/3 "2010-07-09T02:53:41Z")
> [@tisha23](#): > > You stop because NO means NO, No matter what the reason. Yes it is your job to make her feel comfortable safe secure and respected. It may be frustrating to wait. It may not seem fair. But thats the way it is. This is interesting. Just to share: I have come across circumstances where, after backing away and respecting her decision; once apart (as in on the phone) the lady confessed that had I persisted she would have given in. She explained it as: doesnt want to seem so easy, prefer the experience of the man taking charge (even with the No, akin to being swept her feet, where saying no is to see how much she is wanted) Tisha: would appreciate your opinion on this aspect. ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/perspectives-on-last-minute-resistance-lmr/39895/4 "2010-07-09T03:16:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Tisha: would appreciate your opinion on this aspect. You want the Gods honest truth ? LOL She is telling you that after the fact so you will ask her out again. If she indicates she wont have sex with you still there is a possibility you wont want to see her. > [@](#): > > She explained it as: doesn’t want to seem so easy, prefer the experience of the man taking charge (even with the No, akin to being swept her feet, where saying no is to see how much she is wanted) Women dont say No when they mean yes. Remember as I wrote in the beginning of my post I am taking it literally that she is verbally saying the word No. I have no problem with men taking charge, being persistent or even aggressive. Many women like a man who leads. As long as she follows that lead, great. Saying " maybe, are you sure we should do this, maybe we should wait, etc etc… is LMR. No on the other hand means you can lead but I am not following. You did the right thing, when she said no you backed off. Basically her telling you that she didnt want you to think she was easy tells you she was not ready yet nor comfortable and trusting with it but when she is she wants you to lead. You will know the difference. ---
**Author:** ![ami81](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ccd318/32.png) [@ami81](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/ami81)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 3:44am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/perspectives-on-last-minute-resistance-lmr/39895/5 "2010-07-09T03:44:48Z")
> [@tisha23](#): > > You want the Gods honest truth ? LOL Of Course, Always LOL. Would you rather be Ignorant and Happy or Aware and Sad? > [@tisha23](#): > > No on the other hand means you can lead but I am not following. Thank you for the insight, it is quite succinct and explains it well Sorry if i had hijacked your thread Savoy 😉 We could always spray some [P83](https://pheromonelabs.com/product/p83/) to her face, if the mones dont do it she’d be blinded enough anyway lol (the prior sentence in no way suggest that i condone such behaviour, if you choose to do so; please do so at your own risk) ---
**Author:** ![Butterfly](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/butterfly/32/1942_2.png) [@Butterfly](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Butterfly)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 8:43am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/perspectives-on-last-minute-resistance-lmr/39895/6 "2010-07-09T08:43:38Z")
I’m with Tisha for the most part. It is creepy if a guy gets persistant when a girl says no. I’m not sure if any of you have read “The gift of Fear” but our time tested insticts can help us make decisions more quickly than reasoning can. While we need not always act on our instincts, it is important to honor them and to only keep people in our life that show us the basic respect. Besides, why would someone hardsell if they had a good product and expected repeat customers? Of course it will work to earn you money but who wants to be the guy who sells a crappy car to a sucker if he has other options of earning his bread? > [@](#): > > Biologically, by having sex with you, or doing things that she knows will lead to sex, she is taking a big bet on you. In modern society, sex usually doesn’t lead to pregnancy, but her emotional instincts were designed thousands of years ago. That’s why comfort is so important to a woman before sex. Sex can still lead to pregnancy, and social diseases to boot. Condoms can and do break. One is still taking a big bet, though smaller than in the past. Unless you are willing to abort, you are potentially bringing a man into your life for a long time or if he does not take his responsibilities, be stuck alone with a baby. This is very often still undesirable. At the very least, sex will make the relationship very different. As a woman, you may feel very bonded after sex. Even if not, most men don’t take a girl seriously if she dates others after sex took place. So for most women, it means giving up some freedom or facing the end of the relationship. Men may become either indifferent or possessive after sex. Of course you feel uneasy about doing something powerful if you don’t know and trust the man well enough! > [@](#): > > I have no problem with men taking charge, being persistent or even aggressive. Many women like a man who leads. As long as she follows that lead, great. Saying " maybe, are you sure we should do this, maybe we should wait, etc etc… is [LMR](http://www.pheromonetalk.com/) . No on the other hand means you can lead but I am not following. ITA If undecided and open to some convincing, “Maybe” is the word. (Use arousal is basically foreplay, and “Maybe” can mean more foreplay is needed, desire can stand an increase. ) Persisting after “No” means you are probably pressuring her into sex, especially if you try again after just minutes. (Try again next date is fine in many cases.) It makes her more likely to act on some fear than on real desire. (Fear of being abandoned, fear of being raped.) The later two techniques are not unethical alone, but as they circumvent reasoning so that emotions take over, using them while also creating fear seems like an ugly thing to do. I don’t understand why one would want sex with a person who is likely to have regrets after, as the circumvented reasoning kicks in. Why not instead go for sexual encounters with someone who actually desires you and will feel happy about her decision? There may be times when no does not mean no, but this is only when it is clear that we are engaging on a play level. This is quite natural to light flirtation in a bar, at work, with friends etc. and then done in an obviously teasing/mocking way. But any reasonable person can see the difference between a girl playfully wagging en finger and shaking her head while winking and a girl saying a clear “no”. Only creepy guys cant tell the difference, they don’t feel it, lack empathy. The reason that guys who are scared off too easy are rejected too is because they are the other side of the coin of guys who persist too much. Both are not healthy and ignore their own time tested insticts that tell them when to chase and when to stop. Better a healthy guy who honors his own instincts. ---
**Author:** ![Mongo](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/mongo/32/2034_2.png) [@Mongo](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/Mongo)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 9:10am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/perspectives-on-last-minute-resistance-lmr/39895/7 "2010-07-09T09:10:28Z")
First of all Tisha: BOOM SHOT GUN BLAST! tbfh Dont ever get to that stage just do roll reversal - ie you deny her sex. Moving or trying to move to quickly reeks of desperation. Here is a good saying - Be the fly not the fish. ---
**Author:** ![WildFlower](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/wildflower/32/1260_2.png) [@WildFlower](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/WildFlower)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/perspectives-on-last-minute-resistance-lmr/39895/8 "2010-07-15T18:05:42Z")
Tisha, you do realise Savoy is a spammer? Anyway, thanks for taking the time to write that. I agree with everything you said in it. As a man is it wrong to experience LMR myself? Often my heart and head will have conflicting desires. Me being comfortable with a girl before we have sex is _very_ important for me, for whatever psychological reason even if I find her attractive and I’m turned on. I guess this is the same, but even more so, for women who say ‘no’. A no is a definite no in this case. Not a never, but definitely a no. ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 9:50am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/perspectives-on-last-minute-resistance-lmr/39895/9 "2010-07-17T09:50:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Tisha, you do realise Savoy is a spammer? At the time of my post no I didnt but later on it dawned on me LOL Seems there has been a lot of bloggers spamming the forum here lately. Wish they would nip that in the bud. Tisha ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/perspectives-on-last-minute-resistance-lmr/39895/10 "2010-07-18T00:25:43Z")
Put the shoe on the other foot. Assume you’re a straight guy, comfortable with your sexuality, you are who you are, definitely not gay or bi, a regular hetero male doing your thing… and a gay guy starts hitting on you, so you’re upfront with him and say thanks for caring, it’s not my thing, so no way am I into it… and the gay dude keeps hitting on you, saying suggestive things, offering to buy you drinks, asking you how will you know if you don’t try it ? Could I buy you a hot dog, man ? They have such big juicy hot dogs here, big fat ones covered with greasy chili, just imagine a big, greasy, chili slathered hot dog, swallowing that big sweaty hot dog, can’t you feel yourself getting all hot inside ? Round and round it goes… would you be sort of offended or grossed out if he pulled out a lot of PUA routines and tried to put a gay spin on them ? What would your general opinion of the whole PUA mentality be at that point ? Would it seem sophisticated or pathetic and needy, like a bunch of junk psychobable ? What if you discovered that there were gay PUA seminars that were supposed to teach you how to queer straight guys, esp. real buttoned down anglo-saxon frat types, and there were guy PUA nights sending horny gay guys to sports bars and NASCAR events… ? Would this seem maybe a little offbeat, if not perhaps nuts ? ---
**Author:** ![savoy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/savoy/32/2369_2.png) [@savoy](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/savoy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/perspectives-on-last-minute-resistance-lmr/39895/11 "2010-07-21T22:04:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Put the shoe on the other foot. Assume you’re a straight guy, comfortable with your sexuality, you are who you are, definitely not gay or bi, a regular hetero male doing your thing… and a gay guy starts hitting on you, so you’re upfront with him and say thanks for caring, it’s not my thing, so no way am I into it… and the gay dude keeps hitting on you, saying suggestive things, offering to buy you drinks, asking you how will you know if you don’t try it ? > > Could I buy you a hot dog, man ? They have such big juicy hot dogs here, big fat ones covered with greasy chili, just imagine a big, greasy, chili slathered hot dog, swallowing that big sweaty hot dog, can’t you feel yourself getting all hot inside ? > > Would this seem maybe a little offbeat, if not perhaps nuts Of course it would. Obviously in that situation, the person isn’t interested. I’m not out to defend some of the yahoos out there, but anyone involved with Love Systems (what used to be [Mystery Method](http://www.lovesystems.com/mystery-method) Corp) would tell you that the person isn’t interested and to move on. There’s no way we’d have been as successful as we have since 2004 if our pickup techniques were so absurd. We do provide plenty of free information on the website for how we actually teach dating science and it’s nothing like the above. What we’re talking about in this article is a situation where there has already been mutual attraction, you’ve gone home together, and there is a heavy romantic/sexual context leading to some sort of mutual and consenting sexual activity in the bedroom. With the explicit statement that no always means no, I want to leave means I want to leave and so on, there is a role for persistence. Especially if you haven’t known her a long time (bar, club, party, etc.), she might be worried you’ll think she’s a slut if she sleeps with you the first night. So she’ll throw some resistence in there. Obviously, as I’ve said, when she says no you stop. But there’s no rule against trying later or in setting the frame that “we can hang out and do nothing sexually, or we can enjoy each other sexually, but I’m not in for the middle ground of just making out all night”. Or the other techniques I mentioned. As always, your mileage may vary. ---
**Author:** ![SteveO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@SteveO](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/SteveO)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 2:30am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/perspectives-on-last-minute-resistance-lmr/39895/12 "2010-07-22T02:30:54Z")
Guys no need to report Savoy’s posts. He is OK to post and has even offered a discount to our members for his services. In fact I would go as far as even saying that Magic Bullets is a very good and informative read for those looking to improve their dating lives. Highly recommend. Where as others who come in and simply post rehashed game tactics borrowed from gurus like Savoy only attempting to drrum up business like this past weekend SPAM. I genuinely believe Nick is here to offer help. Please continue to report the SPAM, but Savoy is ok and free to post From my iPhone ---
**Author:** ![tisha23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@tisha23](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tisha23)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 8:06am UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/perspectives-on-last-minute-resistance-lmr/39895/13 "2010-07-22T08:06:46Z")
> [@](#): > > But there’s no rule against trying later or in setting the frame that “we can hang out and do nothing sexually, or we can enjoy each other sexually, but I’m not in for the middle ground of just making out all night”. Or the other techniques I mentioned. As always, your mileage may vary. Well from your article above you mention nothing about “Hanging out” and enjoying each others company nor does it suggest she is actively making out with you. I read it again and it indicates one thing. If she resists find a way around it. I agree if she is actively making out with you and says no then you should not hang around making out all night. That’s not fair to the guy. I have no objection to PUA techniques to a certain extent but there is a point when I agree with Tacitus and they cross a line from dating techniques to some con artist just trying to get his way with disregard of other human beings needs and feelings. Its a fine line that a lot of the self proclaimed gurus have crossed in the name of love when love has very little to do with it. Your objective is to get laid because if you loved her resistance wouldn’t be a issue. I am in no way saying that men should put up with women who make out and give all the signals they want to have sex and then not follow though. Respect is a two way street and you can say no as well. If she wants to just fool around and you want more then just tell her that. Tell her its not comfortable for you to make out all night and not have sex. Personally I would have more respect for a guy who was just straight up honest. To me its what separates the Alphas from the Betas. > [@](#): > > I genuinely believe Nick is here to offer help. Please continue to report the SPAM, but Savoy is ok and free to post I would tend to agree with that if Nick contributed to the subject of this forum which is [Pheromones](https://a314.com/). Not one post pertaining to pheromones. All posts plugging his blog in which he sells a system. Its not really a question of whether his site has good info, I am sure on the subject of PUA it does have useful tidbits. Lots of spam is informative. Its still spam though. At least the guys who post canned material contribute to the forum in other ways without trying to sell you something. I know tons of people with useful sites that would love to come in and post useful info. Open the door to one you open the door to all of them and pretty soon you dont have a pheromone forum anymore. JMO Tisha ---
**Author:** ![RADMAN513](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/pheromonetalk.com/radman513/32/364_2.png) [@RADMAN513](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/RADMAN513)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 12:40pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/perspectives-on-last-minute-resistance-lmr/39895/14 "2010-07-22T12:40:13Z")
I’ve read a lot of stuff on LMR and some of it seems valid, some of it sounds like pulling an emotional blackmail card at best, borderline fratboy date rape tactics at worst. The now most guys won’t see the former as being as bad as the latter but really, do you want to the woman to have sex with you because she wants to have sex with you, or because you guilted her into it, or made her think it’s the only way she can keep you? I’ve known female friends that had sex with guys because they liked him, thought they might even love him and figured putting out was the only way to get him to like her. I don’t like freeze outs for this reason, it undoes a lot of what I do in the attraction and comfort stages. Which is to create a frame where I bring the sexual or reproductive value to the table. Freeze outs make it too obvious that sex is something that I want and now it goes right back to an AFC style dynamic where she “knows” that I’m the one that wants sex and if she wants my value she has to trade it. I prefer to incorporate some of Vin DiCarlo’s Objection Game tactics early on during the attraction/qualifying stages. This should be done early, throwing it in too close to actual seduction seems too desperate. You need to address her concerns before she even brings them up. Some of the S-cubed tactics are good as well. They add to the conventional M3 models concept of attraction switches and throws in sexual/reproductive value to your list of qualities. In essence you create a frame where she wants sex even more than you do. Then you simply keep up the frame of you being the prize…and a fairly elusive one “OK babe you’re looking at me like I’m on the desert menu, how about we talk a bit more first?” “Tell you what, I have some beer in the fridge, go grab a couple and when you come back I’ll give you a very romantic kiss…scouts honor” You don’t get LMR when the woman is naked and straddling you fumbling with your belt to get you undressed and slightly annoyed that she’s had to wait so long. And best of all, you don’t have to see this dejected and almost hurt look in her eye when you freeze her out for being a little nervous. ---
**Author:** ![tacitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@tacitus](https://pheromonetalk.com/u/tacitus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://pheromonetalk.com/t/perspectives-on-last-minute-resistance-lmr/39895/15 "2010-07-22T20:32:05Z")
> [@savoy](#): > > What we’re talking about in this article is a situation where there has already been mutual attraction, you’ve gone home together, and there is a heavy romantic/sexual context leading to some sort of mutual and consenting sexual activity in the bedroom. With the explicit statement that no always means no, I want to leave means I want to leave and so on, there is a role for persistence. Especially if you haven’t known her a long time (bar, club, party, etc.), she might be worried you’ll think she’s a slut if she sleeps with you the first night. So she’ll throw some resistence in there. Obviously, as I’ve said, when she says no you stop. But there’s no rule against trying later or in setting the frame that “we can hang out and do nothing sexually, or we can enjoy each other sexually, but I’m not in for the middle ground of just making out all night”. Or the other techniques I mentioned. As always, your mileage may vary. Forgive me, because I understand this could be taken the wrong way, however, possibly as a result of years of hard work with NLP, serious experimentation with pheromones, having been, in some sense of the word, ridiculously lucky or ridiculously in the right place in the right time with the right tools… my perception of the general skill level, as well as the general level of self awareness of the PUA community (by that I mean those involved in delivering the product) is that you guys are still at a fairly undeveloped level of awareness. I don’t see you as bad guys, just people who haven’t been carefully and thoroughly instructed in how unconscious communication works, what _congruity_ is and how it differs from _incongruity_, how rapport can be simultaneously made and broken and reestablished on multiple levels… I have been fortunate enough, and I was willing to travel far and wide enough to find old men and women who knew ropes most of the PUA community doesn’t even know exist, moreso, _they don’t know that they don’t know_… they’re living in a kind of confused fantasy about their level of consciousness of how Other Than Conscious Communication works… true, there are some interesting points, some useful ideas, some pretty decent tactical moves, and there have been efforts to refine “inner game”… but you can only do so much with inner game unless you can summon the humility and curiosity to search out real masters, and I don’t simply mean masters of PUA in the simple, pulsating penis idea of mastery… and sadly, many of the old school greats have passed on, these were people who knew deep, deep things about body and mind, old Cherokee things, old Ida Rolf or F.M. Alexander things, grey old lesbians who can teach you more about what goes on in the minds of women than all of the stud-guy literature ever printed, Balinese priests who can take you places you didn’t know exist… right now all PUA land has is slightly older, slightly more experienced guys trying to impart a limited knowledge base on younger guys with an even more limited knowledge base… and maybe that’s the best we’ve got under the circumstances, or the best the culture as it is currently constituted will allow… because you’re on the threshold of a place which can be profoundly mysterious and transformative and can sculpt your psyche into something you didn’t imagine, _but to get there you have to give up any investment in your ego_, investment in your look, investment in your rap, investment in your sense of mission, investment in what you think the audience is thinking, investment in clinging to who you were ten minutes ago… and that ain’t easy… because what will blow away any friggin’ technique is the willingness to _put your identity at risk… put you narcissistic sense of self at risk_, and that’s where we truly separate the men from the boys.